Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
>But she must have done some latent learning because the past two days she’s been like a pro at finding the tunnel threadle!>
Insane! Latent learning is just mind-blowing!!
>And since a few weeks ago she had struggled with some turns out of a tunnel, I gave those another shot and BINGO! She figured it out literally in her sleep! >
YAY!!!
Looking at the video:
The one step sends are looking great, the added distance was not problem at all! My only suggestion is that as you exit the crosses (such as at :22 and 1:08), you can reach back to her more to make bigger connection with your upper body more visible/opened up back to her. That is how we get the absolute tightest turns exiting crosses. You will see the difference on jumps – wings will elicit a tight turn regardless of connection for the most part, but jumps will not so the connection becomes really important. And rehearsing it now will make it automatic when you add this to jumps.
The tunnel threadles looked great – you used a spin to get her turned on the wing then the threadle. On the first one, you over-helped by pulling a little more than needed – but I am guessing that is because she did not really get it in the last session 🙂 You drove more directly to the tunnel after the (like at 1:19) and she looked great!
She was cracking me up, staring at the wing at 1:03 til released.
I only saw one blooper on this video, on the tunnel exit turn at 1:45 – it could have been a late verbal cue (hard to see where she was exactly) and possibly your motion not moving away in time, accidentally presenting the line she took? You gave her slightly different info at 1:59 (decel, verbal, brake arm) and got a great turn!
>You were right about the sighthound latent learning thing.>
Yeah, sighthound latent learning is both amazing and humbling LOL!!
>To that end, how do you decide whether to just quit an exercise and try again another day vs keep trying to make it easier so they understand? >
Excellent question – I guess in the early days of panic that the hound was not ‘getting it’ and when I thought I needed to see behavior output that indicated learning, I would try to make a few adjustments and even put out a target or lure. Then when the icky intrusive thoughts would creep in (stuff like “wow, I really suck” and “well, maybe he just can’t learn” LOL!), I would just stop. I generally have some form of timer on every session, so when the timer says to stop, I stop – doesn’t matter if it was a good session or not.
Nowadays, I just help as much as I I can then let it go until a few days later.
>Not talking about the whole “always end on a good rep” thing, I know that’s not really a thing.>
True! So many people dig themselves into really deep holes by trying to end on a good note! I think for us, it is more about seeing some type of behavior output that indicates that yes, we are on the right track. But we don’t always get that with sighthounds. And that is CHALLENGING for our brains in the early days of sighthounding.
> But those other sessions I wound up ending the session feeling like I never really got it broken down enough for her to learn anything. How do you know if they got anything out of it without a magic 8 ball?>
Totally is it the magic 8 ball of “I guess I will found out in 2 or 3 days if we accomplished anything” LOL!! And now that I am 5 years into the Sighthound Era, I trust it so much more and freak out less. The BorderWhippets usually provide a little more insight into whether they are learning something or not – the total whippets often provide zero insight into what they are learning, until a few days later.
And if you come back to it in a few days and they still don’t have it? That is rare 🙂 but it is also a good way to re-think the approach to training the skill. And I am sure we all obsess on it in the meantime, figuring out other ways to do it that we often don’t need 🙂 The real challenge is controlling those intrusive thoughts because some training sessions can be really deflating! So remembering the magical latent learning stuff helps me to control those.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
Ooh goats! Fun!!!!! I don’t think I’ve ever seen goat herding!
Looking at the video:
The zig zag is going well! He is moving through it nicely!2 small suggestions to keep building this up:
The placement of reward can be slightly different: instead of having it centered off the 2nd bar (which keeps him turning to his right), have it closer to the wing on the side you are standing on. That will get more slice and more lead changes.
And, in each session, work both directions with you on the inside wings (where they are touching). That way he will see both dog-on-right and dog-on-left, which will give him good balance of lead changes and strengthening in the session. I always work both directions in the same session (or two sessions fairly close together if he needs a break) so that both sides get worked evenly.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Tunnel Threadles and tandem turns, not a great start, but a good finish.>
I agree – the beginning took a few tries to sort out the timing and info for the tunnel threadles.
If he goes off course into the ‘wrong’ end of the tunnel, you can assume it is handler error in timing and info, and give him a reward for his effort when he comes back to line up again.
What was happening here was that on the reps at :02 and :10 on the first side then at :23 and :31 on the other side – you didn’t quite get him fully turned on the wing before the tunnel, so as you started moving up the line, you were cueing the line to the tunnel entry directly in front of him (motion overriding verbal cue). Yes, you looked at your feet to see where they were pointing after he got into the tunnel, but that was after he was already committed – it is what he sees as he exits the wing which is the key spot.
So if you look at :15 and :35, for example, and the reps at the end – you were much more turned at the wing and he easily knew where to go. Those looked great!
And the threadle wrap/tandem-ish turn 🙂 you did on the last rep looked great too!
>Is it too much handler focus, or is it because I am slow?>
It is not because you are slow 🙂 I see what you are seeing – I think it could be a combination of factors. From the handling perspective, one part of it might be too many failures (like early in the session where he went to the tunnel based on what he saw but did not get rewarded at all, I think that happened 5 or 6 times which is a lot!). That is why effort rewards are so critical (to keep the dog in the game). And also, I live by the 2 failure rule: if there are 2 errors (total) then I need to look at the video before doing more, to figure out what I need to do differently. If he thinks he is going to be wrong, he is going to slow down and wait for more info. So in handling, it is safe to assume he is never wrong and reward reward reward 🙂 I know there are plenty of instructors out there who will tell you that *he* was wrong… but the video will give us the unbiased view that he was not wrong 🙂 So, reward anyway 🙂 and then figure out why he was doing what he did (video is great for that!)
The other thing that might be causing him to slow down was that as the sequences got bigger, you were pointing ahead more, and connecting less. So he was looking up at you a bit and waiting for more info, which will slow him down. You can see it at 1:22-1:24, for example: nice and fast when you were connected, and more careful when you were pointing ahead of him and he couldn’t see connection. So remember to watch him more, and point at the obstacles less 🙂
Other factors include:
He might be a bit tapped out in the heat if you were working in the heat of the day. Or, now that he is doing bigger longer sequences, he might be in need of a massage to make sure nothing is sore. Has he ever been to a body work person? There are lots of good folks around!Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! This is going well!!! Excellent progress on the slant board!
The first part of the session went great and you were really good about saying in motion. After about :47, you were stopping when she was stopping, so I think that was partially responsible for why the behavior was changing. Keep reminding yourself to stay in motion for 3 or 4 more steps after she stops, even if it is slow motion 🙂
>I sometimes threw forward and most of the time back. >
Mixing it up is good!
>When she came off the board twice I thought I should have rewarded more back. >
And you can also run in and deliver a treat right on the target to help keep the balance of stopping there. Coming off the board looked to be mainly because she was going faster and didn’t shift her weight in time to make the stop in position. All a normal part of the learning with the board angled 🙂
>I can’t throw the ball directly to her since it is pretty hard and I am Not good at aiming AND she is not good at catching.>
Right, she might not want the ball to smack her in the head LOL!!! So a treat tossed to her can work, or the ball behind her, or place the ball out front and release her forward to it. The surprise element of reward can be very motivating!
>I was going to work more and increasing my motion with arms and then fade the target.>
Yes – adding staying in motion is great, especially when you are behind her as she gets on the board. That seemed to be the hardest challenge for her!
>We leave Thursday for beauty pageants in Iowa.>
Where in Iowa is the event? I spend time in Iowa for teaching and training (and to visit the World’s Largest Truck Stop haha)
Great job here!!
Tracy
>When I walked the dogs line it was a solid 9-10’ longer to do the slice vs the wrap, plus it felt like a lot of lead changes, so I did the wrap.>
Got it! That does seem like a significant distance – did you measure from the exit wing on each side, or from the takeoff spot? It would be fun to time both of them, though, because I am always surprised that the side that looks slower often turns out to be faster. It is very individual to each dog.
>“He had a question on 4-5 at 1:23 – I think it was a parallel line blooper.” I think I just didn’t give him much for turning cues on 4, so he landed already looking past 5, he went and took the end jump, not the weaves.>
Yes – and since weaves are generally a forward cue, he seemed to be looking forward for them. Good boy 🙂
>Yes I do try to start the verbal/cues for the next thing while he is in the last few poles, so it’s not something he’s never seen, but sometimes if it’s not what he was expecting (or I got further away than he was expecting, or anything that surprises him) he will still pop out. He knew it was coming in subsequent reps so he was able to stay in.>
Yes – I like the timing of starting it while they are weaving. In this case, I think it was not the verbal the pulled him out, I think he was already on his way out as the next line came into view. So you can keep adding the verbal nice and early like you had it here, and reward him on the next line for staying in the poles (a reward somewhere between the pole exit and next obstacle).
>For 11, I was worried doing it as a threadle wrap was still slightly ambiguously cuing the incorrect side of 11. I felt like he needed a tiny bit more to make it super clear he needed to come through the gap. >
You can give him wrap cues as he exits the teeter so he is collecting for 10, then the threadle wrap cues will be easier (and the lap turn cues too). I have found that turning cues on the jump before threadles make the actual threadles much easier 🙂
>In hindsight, doing it with the BC and a push wrap might have been easier. I kinda needed to be LESS ahead for 13-15 so I could use more motion to power him past the wrong tunnel entrance. >
It is possible that is the easiest option!
>It’s not still set up, had to break most of it apart to work on some tunnel things with the other two, but maybe I’ll rebuild it the next time I do some course work. What I might do to take one element out is build it so that the correct tunnel is more visible too, increase our chance of success. >
That sounds great!!! Keep me posted!!! And if you set up the tunnel stuff before the DW goes in, try some of it with Beat to introduce her to some of those lines 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>Okay I have been experimenting I think the issue is that neither of my dogs understand their turn cues on a verbal so when I am not on the same side as verbal they go for where I am – so been doing some work on this slow progress. This is worse when I am moving less or coming out of a tunnel.>
That is pretty normal – you can add physical cues like arm cues to help turn them away. Practicing on the flat first by saying the verbal then doing the arm cues will really help.
On the first video:
That was a nice distracting environment and In Synch did great! It looks like she was even holding her stay! Super!
She found the opening line really well.
>In Synch weave is coming but she still struggles so didnt really expect alot as not done weaves as part of a proper sequence before.>
Is it possible to open up the weaves in the sequence, so they are easier? Or you can reward before them then do them separately. That way you don’t help with body language, and she doesn’t get frustrated by getting them wrong a lot.
>But I was pleased she seems to be starting to understand backsides even if we got a slice instead of a wrap sometimes.>
Yes! On the first video, it looks like you pushed a little too hard to it so she went past the jump before it. In that case, you can keep your dog-side arm open and back like a serpentine, so she still takes the jump as you move to the backside on the next jump.
On the second video, you got the slice on the backside because you were all the way across the bar (which is the slice position). To get the wrap, you will want to be closer to where the wing and bar meet (like you were on the 2nd run here). She read that wrap really well!
>Maybe that sun session training with friends so spent quite abit of time looking at lines- another sign should walk courses more in training.>
Yes! The more we do that in practice, the easier it gets at trials to find the lines correctly and plan the handling.
> But also amazed at how focused both my dogs have got when lots distractions- people, dogs, horse poo, horses rabbits etc.>
They are being fantastic! In Synch really wants to do agility with you and doesn’t seem to be concerned with distractions at all.
Great job here! Safe travels to go see your dad!
Tracy
Hi!
The rear crosses went GREAT!! She is very confident with her lines and she doesn’t mind the pressure of you getting close to her for the rear cross diagonals. So fun!
And she had no questions when you did the balance rep, or the RC on the jump after the tunnel, or the left turns. That means all of the info was very clear! Super!
I think you were showing the RC info sooner on the left turn side later in the session than the right turn side. It seemed like you were facing straight as she was approaching the jump after the tunnel on the right turn side – and on the left turn side you were facing the center of the bar immediately. Your timing at 1:16 was perfection!
>Then we revisited the blinds and… if I turned earlier she tended to skip the jump. >
The timing is tricky with small dogs for sure!
The rep that went the best was at 1:27 – this is where you were connected until after she landed from the middle jump (1:28) then started the BC cues.
Compare that to 1:40 and 1:46, where you started the disconnection as she was over the bar of the middle jump so when she landed, the BC was already in progress (from her perspective). In other words – you were too early 🙂
I think you ended up with the FC at 1:56 and 2:05 because you were really being connected to help her stay on the line and ended up near the jump, a little decelerated – so the FC seemed more natural.
Your connection at 2:05 was really good – you maintained it until she was landing from the middle jump without getting too close to the next jump, so that would have probably been a good BC there too!
Nice work!!
Tracy
Good morning! Did Judge get to herd? How did it go? I don’t think I have ever seen a Malinois herd!
The serps are going well! You did a great job of staying in motion and connected and having your serp arm back. Yay!
The first part (dog on left) went great! I think the 2 jumps might have been a bit too close at first as you mentioned, but he also needed to sort out the striding because that side-to-side jumping is hard!
At :13 he hit the wing of jump 2 pretty hard – I couldn’t see exactly why other than he might have been watching you start to show or deliver the toy? I am glad it was a light PVC wing!
He had one more bar at :16 – it looked like more like a ‘not quite enough room’ to set up takeoff and landing on that severe of a slice but he was able to figure it out after that and the other reps looked good.
The dog-on-right side where he had to turn left was definitely harder. Do I remember correctly that left turns are harder for him in general?
When you started giving your left verbal before he entered the tunnel (:40), he was much better at turning (plus he had seen it a couple of times so better knew what to expect on the tunnel exit). But finishing the left movement was HARD with you running! You can still reward effort there – a cookie for lining up, or for taking the next jump.
Dialing back your motion totally helped. For this side you can also angle the jumps more to make the line easier to read while you run – they were a little angled but angle them both even more (and more than you did on the other side at the very beginning).
He was totally getting it by the last 2 reps (yay!) but also, it looked like a harder effort than the right side jumping. This is normal for serps and slice jumping, so it is helpful for him to leave the easy side in the harder position and open up the harder side to the easier position.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
OK I have to share my chuckle:
At the very beginning of the video, you were so compelling in the connection and handling of the lead out that I legit thought you were running the dog… until he did not appear after the release LOL!! Well done!! I didn’t even notice that the bars were on the ground.
This course was a lot of distance and parallel line work, meaning that setting the parallel line can get the desired line, even at a distance.
The walk through looked great. I liked the plan! 2 suggestions before watching the runs:
– Handle 11 (jump before DW) as a threadle wrap (you’d be rotated towards the DW) instead of a lap turn (where you would be facing him) – it can get you up the line even faster because your feet would already be facing the DW.
– I couldn’t really see 20 relative to 19 but maybe the slice is better than the wrap there, in terms of being faster?
The runs went really well overall, most of it was lovely! Some details we can play with fine tuning and a couple of options to explore with that 16 jump!
Opening:
I like you lead out position!!! He was wide on the turn on 2 at 1:19 and 1:51, then less wide at 3:30 (but he might have known where he was going). We don’t need a lot of collection, but a little more would be good 🙂 – you can see if he will commit if you start stationary on the release without taking steps towards the #2 jump, and also if you release with 2 hands instead of 1. For my dogs – one hand on the release means extension, 2 hands on the release means collection.He had a question on 4-5 at 1:23 – I think it was a parallel line blooper. You were stationary saying “go weave” so it set a line to the backside of 5 and he was looking for weaves maybe somewhere out there, paralleling your line.
You were rotated facing him at 1:53 and the other reps, which pulled him in a little too much. You can play with a brake arm and keep turning your shoulders, or a spin to stay in motion and getting just the right amount of turn.
Weaves: on the first run, he left the weaves right as you said tunnel but I think he might have been popping out anyway? (1:59) He seemed to have no regrets LOL
Good reward there on the next run, then he was great in the weaves.He did have a question on 11 at 2:32 – I think it mainly had to do with the lap turn position probably being too far from the wing. The rotation pulled him in to you, but then he was not sure where to be. You can put the lap turn position closer to 11, but that might put you further behind on the RDW.
Other options to play with are: threadle wrap where your upper body is pulling him for 10-11, and lower body rotates to show the parallel line to his path 10-11 and feet face the DW. That also opens up more options for 16 (more on that below).
Yo ucan also do a FC or BC at 10 (which will be nice for tightening up that turn) and a push wrap to 11. If you do the FC or BC close to the wing of 10, then you can send him past you to 11 and leave for the next position almost as early as you can with a threadle wrap (and also opens up more options for 16).
The ending looked great each time (17-20). He is wrapping really well! It would be fun to time the difference between the wrap and the slice there – you were in a great spot to be able to handle any of it really well.
Looking at why 16 was such a pain to get:
>From the dog who I always say won’t turn out of a tunnel, it seemed like he wanted to do anything except go straight.>
On the rep you left in, he was convinced it was a right turn on 15 and not a straight line to 16 because of what he saw before entering:
At 2:41 you got in pretty deep to the tunnel then as he was approaching it at 2:42, he saw you decel and peel away.
(I will point out that you are rocking your verbals even if his responses are not perfect in terms of overriding motion!)So to handle it with him on your left from that side of the DW, you can be closer to the end of the DW and jump 13 – then from as close to the end of the DW as possible, sent to 14 and 15 while setting up a parallel path from 15-16 as you run past the end of the DW. That should get 16 and the right turn, and easily get you back to 18 for the 18-19-20 line.
Handling it by getting him on your right at 2:52 got the jump! He did not get the right turn but it was still clean and fast on that sequence – putting him on your right was a clever approach to it!
I think he saw you RC at 3:59 so he turned right and did not take 16, but you nailed it at 4:12 AND he turned right!
He definitely did NOT see a RC there before the tunnel entry but he might have seen it as he was heading to the jump, which might have produced the right turn.One other option is to handle that sequence with him on your right on the DW. This would mean a blind cross exit from 11 (from the threadle wrap or push wrap or even the lap turn, you can get him on your right pretty easily). Then turn him away to 13 and support the parallel line 14-15… and you will be waiting for him near enough to 16 when he exits 15 that it is easy to get that and easy to get the 17-20 line too. I think the ideal position to be in when he exits 15 would be paralleling his line with him on your left – and setting that parallel line from the other side of the 17 tunnel (where the numbers are on on the map :)) so you can FC 16 and be miles ahead for 18-19. This would be similar to what you did 2-3-4.
If it is still set up, try it and let me know what works best! The tricky part is actually the exit of 11… what you do there will set up the entire ending of the course.
Great job!!
Tracy
Hi!
>. I think I got confused with the last pinwheel exercise.>
This is possible, they might all start to look the same LOL!!!
Tracy
Hi! Super nice session here!!
I like how you broke it down – the Go line at the beginning but then showing her the harder skills on the jumps starting just from the jump. Then adding more speed from the wing wrap – she was really strong with most of the skills here!!
She really only had trouble with one element: when you reached to pull the toy out before she was committed, she came off the line.
You can see it at 1:26 (toy grab from pocket plus decel drew her back to you from the Go line to the tunnel), at 2:05 (toy reach pulled her off threadle slice), at 2:14 (she curled into you on he slice cue). That is really good info!
So 2 ideas for you:
– when doing the handling, either have the toy already in your hand, or pull it out after she is committed to the line you want
– separately from the handling, you can play with one or two jumps where you are pulling out the toy and even praising… but keep handling then reward her for continuing and for ignoring the toy moving 🙂Everything else is looking good! For the in in threadle, the further back your threadle arm is, the better she read it is a slice s you moved along the line. For example, at 2:39 it looked like you were trying to bring her to your side with your arm down then send her back out, so the slice was not as smooth.
Compare to the last rep at 3:46 where you had your threadle arm back more and she immediately came to the correct side of the jump and sliced out over the jump. That was lovely!Another small detail: for the threadle wraps, you can keep your feet facing forward to challenge her to commit to the line even as you keep moving forward.
For the next session, you can start closer to the wing wrap to see if she can read the cues (especially the go tunnel and backside push cues) when you are not ahead of her.
Great job!
TracyHi!
Lift’s video:
Overall, this went really well for a young dog with a super hard skill!!The beginning was hard for her but then moving the jump out of the picture and showing her the weaves from the easier angle jump started it and then things went pretty well. It is definitely hard! Dog on right seemed a little harder for her, maybe it was the angle of entry, so you can soften that angle too. But even after you did a couple of tunnel balance rep, she was able to get into the weaves. Good girlie!!!
>Definitely should have started with the weaves further from the tunnel. >
Yes, distance can help. You can also have the tunnel very close there but with both ends turned down, so it is an exciting visual but no entry is available LOL!
Kaladin’s video:
>Surprisingly had trouble getting the tunnel…maybe because he had less momentum going into it? When these things come up on course he loves sailing out to the tunnel>
Could be that there was not a lot of momentum into it! And also I think the tunnel is so hidden on the side with the weaves that he didn’t register it (like he did on the other side on the first part of the session). I thought he had a lightbulb moment at :40 when he was like “who put the tunnel there?” 😂🤣 but it was still hard. A little extra motion helped him sort it out later in the session too.
Finding the poles went great – he was not accelerating as much because there was not a lot of momentum and you were sending him past you without moving – great skills for him to practice!
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>She does like running after a frizzer but doesn’t have great skills to bring it back so if I use that at Animal Inn I will probably spend my whole time trying to get it back after the first throw. >
When I use a ball with Hot Sauce who is great about bringing it back, but does not let go of it 😂🤣 I always have a 2nd ball to show/bribe her with to make fast transitions. Perfectly fine in UKI and USDAA. And you can ask someone to go get the other frizz if she drops it on the way back to you.
>Does the Master Class just run for a year after you sign up?>
Access to it is lifetime. The working spots go for a year after the first post, so people can start whenever they like. And of course I am flexible because sometimes life gets in the way: dog injury, human injury, winter, etc. So we ‘pause’ the year and pick it up when the person is ready.
Onwards to videos!
T
Hi!
>What spacing did you use.>
I used 24 foot distances, approximately.
> I have tried it from about 14’ – 18’. >
Might be too small for her big stride – is it on grass? Also, what height is she running at? If the bars are 16” or taller, the smaller distances will be harder.
>I’m getting a pretty wide turn off of 2-3 and wonder if I should space it more. >
That can totally help, by giving you more time to show the handling and giving her more time to adjust the striding.
>She seems to really have to crank to get to the turn to 4. She has no trouble with the layering, so I’m wondering if I should focus more on her turning tighter around the pin wheel.>
You can look at the video and see if you are cueing early enough in terms of turning your shoulders. Also, you can use a ‘brake’ arm (opposite arm joining the dog side arm) as part of the cue to get her to add a collection stride.
Let me know how she does with the bigger distances and if you try the brake arm!
Tracy
Hi!
I think you will find getting the BC to be a lot easier if you start on the jump before the tunnel, send her through the tunnel, then send into the pinwheel. She is SO FAST that starting on the jump before the pinwheel jump just put you in a hard position to get far enough ahead to get the BC started early enough.At :26 and :37, the BCs were starting when she was already over the BC jump. You had SUPER connection as you finished the blind, so she found the line. YAY!! Note how you looked back at her as you finished the blind, moving the right arm back a bit to show more connection. That worked really well!
>left side was a struggle. >
Yes, that was harder for her – you fixed it by using bigger connection and a step to the jump. But that made it a little harder to the BCs, so they were a little late starting too.
The exit of these blinds did not have the same connection as the blinds at :26 and :37 – your dog side arm was at your side and so she didn’t see connection directed back to her.
I really liked your timing of starting it at 1:15!!!! Super! Adding more connection back to her with exit line connection: dog-side arm points back to her and your opposite arm (right arm here) can be across your body to really open up connection.
Using the toy helped especially on the last 2 reps but connection will get it done even better 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
