Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning! So much great stuff here!!
Moving the backing up to a new spot is great! He was doing well about offering to back up and you were able to start adding the cue. YAY!!! I want to see if we can get him to do more steps by keeping your hands lower, but I also don’t want to make your back angry from staying bent over the whole time. When you were standing up after the start cookie, he was lifting his head up to look at the cookie hand, which might have been inhibiting the number of steps he was taking. So you can try sitting on the agility table that is visible behind you (giving him room to back up, of course) – that way can can keep your hands low by resting your elbows on your legs rather than having to bend over a lot.
You can also get more steps backwards by using the ‘destination’ approach: you will see it in the Adding Challenge section here and at about :40 in the demo video:
The turn and burn session looked strong! He did well on the ‘harder’ side – he is pretty balanced! It was SUPER interesting how at about halfway through the session he started offering his stronger side. That is possibility an indication of how hard it is to turn to the harder side, even though it looked easy!
Click/treat to you for using the line on the ground to be very systematic about adding your movement – based on how well he did here, you can move the line after every rep!
Also, be careful of when you use your reward marker. “Yes” seems to mean, to him, to come get the cookie from your hand. So at 1:44, you said “YES!” then moved the treat, so he was not necessarily wrong to come directly to you without finishing the barrel wrap. Note how confused he was when you did not give the reward at 1:46 – he was like… wait, what? You said “yes!” LOL! Very expressive dude 🙂
The same thing happened at 2:08, and he was definitely trying to sort out what the ‘yes’ marker meant.
So you can start your motion when he arrives at the line… but you don’t need to mark until he completes the wrap. This will be useful as the challenges get harder. You can also dial back the countermotion challenge to do a FC without the full 360 around the barrel.
I love how he got back onto the toy at the end, after all the treats!! SUPER! You can use a toy as the reward for this game too – starting without any food at first, then if he likes that we can add a tiny bit of food so he gets comfy using food and toy in back-to-back reps.
Rear crosses are the hardest thing we have done so far! He was turning toward you here like a FC because he as not seeing you on the new side before he arrived at the prop (good job rewarding him because he was correct on these reps).
A couple of ideas for you to help him turn the correct direction. The goal is to get him driving way ahead of you to the prop from further back, so you can change sides and be visible on the new side before he arrives at the prop:
The main thing will be to get the reward out of your hand and thrown ahead of him pat the prop. With the reward in your hand, he will drive ahead a little but not a lot 🙂 And since you need the space, working outdoors is great – using his Lotus ball should make it easy to find the thrown food so it doesn’t get lost in the grass.
When he is leaving you in the dust to race to the prop then getting the treat from the lotus ball, you can start to add the RCs:
Be 15 feet or so away from the pop – start next to him and move forward. As soon as he is past you (heading to the prop) you can do the RC then keep moving forward to support him continuing to the prop with you on the new side. That should get the turn to the new side.
Plankrobatics looked super fun! He really likes it, so be sure he turns around before you give his 2o2o cue (otherwise he tries to drive down to position AND turn around, which led to some slipping off the side a bit). The other thing you can add is turning him around, giving him a treat and asking him to stay there on the plank… then you can move away so you are able to cue the 2o2o with you laterally away, or behind him, or ahead of him, etc. He seems ready for that!
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Your outdoor space is just gorgeous! And this game is well suited for that spot: the prop is very visible and the treat was visible too.
I agree – she did really well here!! Yes, the treat was bouncing but I don’t think that was a problem because it just changed her angle for the next approach and that is a good challenge 🙂 You can try small cheese chunks of her GI can handle it? Those won’t bounce. I freeze them before use, so they don’t melt in the heat.
She did have a few questions about the reward placement on the parallel path game – the click seemed to indicate that she should look at the prop or at you, it took her a few reps to lock into reward placement of going forward. So you can replace the click with a reward marker, which will tell her she is correct (like the click does) and also tell her where to look for the reward (which the click does not). You can use “get it” as the marker to replace the click. And it doesn’t matter if she doesn’t know the marker yet – this is a great framework to teach it 🙂
>It looks like she did better when I wasn’t crowding her line – what do you think?>
I think you what you mean here is when she was pushing away a little and looking up at you? I don’t think you were crowding her line – I think she was moving away to get a looksee at the bigger picture of the cue. And being more laterally away opens up her field of vision to see the prop and your cues all together. That will go away when she sees this again – she will realize she can ‘watch’ you peripherally and look forward to her line to the prop.
When she is able to drive ahead to the prop when you start next to her and pretty close to her, you can start the rear cross game. And separately, you can add more distance away from the prop on the parallel path.
Countermotion/backwards sending is going well too! She did her best commitment and prop hit when you did a clear ready dance before the send. For example, at 1:04 you kind of backed up then sent her without a clear transition, so she went to the prop but it was not as snappy and crisp as it was a 1:12, where you did a clear ready dance and super clear send. That was lovely!
And she gets a gold star for engaging with you during the ready dance… but NOT biting you! This is one of the ways we teach puppies to get pumped up and play with us, without putting their little shark teeth on our flesh LOL!
You really had some clear countermotion on that last rep too – lovely! You can keep building that up, it looked great.
Great job here!!
TracyIt seems like ALL the puppies are in Mastication Mode 🙂
And good for you for stopping the session when time was up and resisting temptation to move to the next step! I am sure he will do great when you revisit it.
T
Good morning!
>Today we revisted the back up. >
This looks like the same link from Wednesday? Or maybe I need more coffee, which is always a possibility 🙂 Let me know if there is a different link.
The other games are going well – just small suggestions for you advance them even more:
Parallel path: He did an excellent job driving to the prop and clearly indicating it! SUPER!! Your connection was lovely. You might have noticed that he was looking at you more as the session went along – it was because of the reward placement (cookies coming for your hand).
So, one adjustment: throw the rewards rather than deliver the reward from your hand – to build distance, we want to get the reward away from you. Instead of ‘yes’, use your ‘get it’ marker and throw the treat. That will also give you time to change your position: moving further to the side, or getting ahead of him.
Countermotion – he has good commitment to the prop here, but he did have a good question as you mentioned:
>Towards the end he started offering me a wave so maybe that was a sign I just did too much and should have stopped.>
The cue was a bit unclear, so he was not really sure of where to look and when to look at/move towards the prop. What was happening was that after you rewarded him, you were backing up towards the prop and then sending while backing up, so it was unclear about what was happening (the cue was getting a bit buried in the motion of you walking backwards).
To clarify the cue: Give a clearer ready dance while you are stationary rather than backing up towards the prop. After the reward, move forward into your next starting position – then with you stationary, you can engage him with the ready dance for 2 or 3 seconds – then BOOM! Big cue to the prop. That tells him exactly when to start moving and exactly what you want. You can use the tug toy either as the primary reward, or after the cookie reward, to move back into position and he will also enjoy the tugging 🙂
You can see that each time you changed position relative to the prop, he was very snappy with his send to the prop! That was because you were stationary before the send so the cue was very very clear. Then he started asking questions after a couple of reps when you were backing up into the send there (like looking at the tape on the ground). So, clean crisp starts before each cue will help a lot (and the ready dance really helps make things clear :))
>He occasionally was fixating on food in my hand which I know he has to learn to ignore>
Yes – but you can make that easier: if the cookie is in the hand next to him, start closer to the prop like you did at 2:00 approx). Or as you add distance, have the cookie in the other hand so the dog-side hand is empty. That way when one variable gets harder (distance for example), you can make another variable easier (moving away from the cookie).
>We’ll work on rear cross another day. Maybe I should work more on the parallel path first or not?>
For the rear cross, add a bit more to parallel path first. We definitely want the reward out of your hands and tossed past the prop – if he is looking at your hands, rear crosses get really hard. And the other element to add before the rear cross is to start with him on the parallel path game, very close to him – and as you start to move, he drives ahead of you to the prop. When you are close to him and he leaves you in th dust to go to the prop? Onwards to the rear cross 🙂 Based on what he did here, my guess is he will start driving ahead really easily!
>Very interesting approach for these concepts!>
I am glad you are enjoying it! Since we started using these concepts as the foundation (started in 2020 during the early covid lockdown) we have found that the transition onto jumps and into coursework has been insanely easy for the pups! It has been really fun watching them learn 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning! This went really well!!!
>Here, we did a bit off to the side, which seems like a reasonable transition to getting the behavior on cue without the platform. >
Absolutely! That was a really clever way to get him into backing up mode, then get it without the platform (but with the platform still in the picture as a context cue). Yay!
My only suggestion is to stay a little bent over for now – when your hands are just at or below your knees, his head position is more ‘neutral’ and he can back up more freely. When you stand fully upright, he lifts his chin to look up which inhibits the backing up a bit, so he will likely take fewer steps. I try to position my hands so the pup’s lower jaw is parallel to the floor as much as possible.
> I “broke” the behavior when I worked on single-leg lateral rear leg lifts, and it’s never quite been the same ;). In this video, he seems to dip his hips a bit, and reaches for the prop. >
Your reinforcement for the leg lifts must have been really powerful 🙂 You can shift that for backing up by isolating the back foot with the click: looking at the foot he would normal lift rather than step back with, you can click for the moment he puts it down after stepping back. It is a bit of surgical precision with the clicker 🙂 To mark it precisely, just stare at his back feet so you don’t miss it: he is small and quick!!!
>I’m pleased with his responsiveness and that he’s moving straight back here.>
Yes! I think he did really well!! Great job! You can keep using the platform to add even more distance and see how he does.
Nice work!
TracyGood morning! I am sending you a giant high five for how you handled this session! Excellent dog training here!
>Enjoy our destroy the barrel session 😂. He’s sure my hand has something to do with it… bite my hand, jump on the barrel… just not sure mom. >
Totally agree – he was like IT IS ABOUT YOUR HAND!!! So what was needed was to build value for the line by changing his focal point. Your hand has a lot of value so going past it was not making a lot of sense to him.
And that is exactly what you did: You made an excellent adjustment to putting the toy on the exit line of the barrel, then putting the bowl there. He had a MUCH clearer understanding of where to look and where to go. That changed the session entirely and he was spot on!
Then you added the next step of moving away (the FC element of turn and burn) and he was still great! It looks like the treat was in the bowl on those last couple of reps as you moved away.
So for the next session, start where you left off with the bowl on the exit line and cookie in it. When he is smooth like he was here at the end, you can remove the cookie from the bowl (but leave the bowl there) and reward him for running to you after he wraps the barrel. He would be running right over the bowl. When he can do that? We can start fading the bowl out by just moving it away more (towards you) or starting to hide it under the barrel little by little.
Excellent work here!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Adding the forward ending went well! She did really well heading to it and touching it!! I think you had a cookie in the hand? A empty/slightly open hand might be easier as the cue, for now.
One suggestion to help her know exactly when to move and where to look: Separate the ready from the send: you were saying ready and sending at the same time – it should be ready ready engagement for 2 for 3 seconds, then sending silently 🙂 Your last rep here was closest to that and she did great!
>I tried sideways at the end and she couldn’t do it. >
It might have been the cookie in the hand? I don’t think it is in the video, feel free to leave it in because video will answer some of the ‘why’ questions.
>Maybe tired.>
Quite possibly! She did a lot of thinking (in a good way!) in this session, plus if she has had a busy week then she might need a day off to do nothing other than lounging and running around 🙂 My puppy slept almost all day yesterday, including for 4 hours straight in a crate right next to the agility ring (I had people check to see if he was still breathing haha!). So she might be heading into a growth spurt where we see more sleeping and more rest needed. My pup is totally in a growth spurt – he comes out of the crate each morning visibly larger than he was the night before.
>We haven’t stood up with the pop up laundry basket, so I’m not sure if I should do that before turn and burn. >
Yes, we will want you to be standing for the pop up basket before turn and burn – at least one session with you standing. And if she zips around it, you can move to turn and burn pretty quickly!
>It’s lawn day and Dot is not fond of the lawnmower noise. I don’t want to be in the backyard until I know they’ve been here.>
It is definitely a weird noise! How does Sprite feel about it? Maybe Dot can hang out with Sprite when the noise is weird – I do a lot of group speed sits for cookies with the puppy in those moments of weird outdoor noises (thunder has been BAD in this area!).
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
He was great about going to the prop on the parallel path game! Very clear indication and intent! So yes – you can take this game to a bigger space where you can add parallel distance.
> The send to it while I go away is haaaaaard>
Yes but I think he did really well here! You were sending him forward, so yo can try starting with you already sideways so you don’t have to rotate as much. It was hard to see where you were looking, so be sure shift where you are looking: start by looking at his cute face, then as you send to the prop you can shift your gaze to the prop and keep looking at it as you move away.
He was also really strong with the barrel wraps! Yay!! Nice offering from that far away! He might be indicating that he is a righty? When he was free to offer, he generally chose the right turn. Were you rewarding with giant cheese cubes? Yummy!
Since he is being really confident with your barrel here: onwards to the turn and burn that we posted this week! Because it is a new game, start nice and close to the barrel so it is easy for him to offer.
Great job! I am excited to see him do the next steps!
Tracy
Good morning! Welcome!!!!! I am so glad you are here! I love greyhounds – very cool that you’ve had 5! There is something special about sighthounds 🙂 I currently have 2 whippets and 4 lurchers, so I am all about the sighthounds!
Keep me posted about how Carmen is doing! I am excited to hear more!
Tracy
Good morning!
Nice job with the ready game!! He seemed to like it and it definitely served the purpose of getting him excited and challenging him to move from handler focus to obstacle focus.
The empty hand on the 2nd send and after that was great. He was excellent about leaving your hand (and the toy in the other hand) to go to the prop. Cookie in hand on rep 1 was HARD!! As you added distance, he wasn’t quite as sure but I think that was related to the distance away than to the cue. So you can be a little closer for now – mainly because he looks ready for the new steps! These are sending sideways and backwards, so being 2 or 3 feet away will be great. And you all then be able to progress to the new game from this week pretty quickly too!
Great job!
TracyHi!
>First day back at work SUCKED haha. I think it’s going to take a week to catch up from my 4 days off.>
Ugh, work gets in the way of recovering from the fun 😂 😂
This session went really well! I think the only hard part was him taking a while to chew, which slowed things down. He and most of his classmates here are in the same boat: chewing the whole time. Do you have tiny treats he can just slurp down? I use cheese a lot at this stage – no chewing required – as long as it doesn’t upset his belly.
When you are seated, you can move the bowls back behind your knees a bit so he has more room to turn around for the next cone wrap. But… we can start to change your position!
You move from the floor to sitting on something, then move from sitting to standing. This might happen in one session, or two sessions. Distance between you and the cone is not that important at this stage: the distance you had here was great and he only had one moment where he didn’t wrap it – but I think that was chewing-induced hahaha!
You can also break up the sessions with tugging to keep things exciting – this is easier to do when you are sitting or standing because it is easier to move the toy around.
Does this cone get taller? I’ve seen some that look like this and expand. If not, you can also add a taller cone or barrel. That will lead us in nicely to the new games!
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Forward focus to the cookie target:
He did really well looking at the cone (or even away from it LOL!) and when you didn’t release immediately, he looked at it again. Good boy!
I agree, the toy version was definitely his preference. In a way, starting with food was good because even though it was not as exciting, it was easier for him to be correct and learn the concept even though he seemed to be rolling his eyes haha!! The toy brings a new level of excitement, which is great – and he did really well! Only one moment where he considered going directly to the toy, and the rest were great.
So using the strategy you had here, keep moving the treats around the cone until he is basically going past the treat next to him to go around the cone then back to eat the treat. When he is happy with that – repeat that process with the toy 🙂
2nd video:
Turns on the flat look good!Backing up to the target is going well too. Yay! He is a bit sideways here sometimes (some reps were straight, some had him curling off to the side) – I think mainly because the cookies were all from your right hand so he was angling a bit to watch that hand on some reps. You can convince him to back up straighter by having cookies in both hands and have both hands centered in front of you – and deliver the treat with alternating hands so he doesn’t lock onto only one hand. This is very hard for us humans, we have strong side preferences too 🙂
For both of these games – add a little toy play before you cue the behavior. That will change his arousal state and challenge him: can you still maintain these lovely mechanics when you are more aroused? That is the hardest part of dog sports so I like to get the pups working their mechanics in higher arousal as early as possible. He is ready! Plus he will really enjoy it 🙂
Plank video:
This is such a cool room with a great floor. Is it a school? Or your living room? 😂😆The plank work is going really well!
Great job getting the turn-arounds n the flat then right onto the board! They definitely looked easier for him!
Do you have a 2nd plank? You can out it next to this plank for a wider playing field, making it a little easier for him to keep all 4 feet on. And with the wider playing field, you can also getting him more stimulated with the toy to add the challenge of “can you maintain mechanics while you are more aroused” (spoiler alert, the answer will be “no” at first but that is why a wider playing field will be good to make it easier at first.Great job here!!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well here! He definitely likes climbing on things LOL!>He does slide off with the tug – losing connection with his feet a bit.>
>How should I incorporate that he loses connection with his feet more when using the tug? Into future training? Is it about testing/training in different states of arousal?>About him losing his feet a little – yes, it is totally about training in different arousal state. Teaching the pups to use their bodies in a higher arousal state goes a long way to helping them be able to execute the fast and precise behaviors needed in dog sports, when they will be in higher arousal 🙂
And knowing that they need to learn this and are not great at it naturally 🙂 we start early in life and with very simple behaviors like this one. And it also helps him learn how to get off of something if he is losing his balance – that is actually a hugely important skill for the future!
I think he did really well, and the moments where he lost his footing are nothing to worry about – the one on the video here was when he was trying to tug and turn, which didn’t work out so well for him 😂 But as you mentioned, he was not worried and kept trying to figure out how to maintain his balance.
The sit went great! You can use a release word from the sit to cue him to get off the board and play, or a ‘grab the toy’ marker.
>He’s not following my hand target very well (fair judgement of what he thought of target without food)>
Yes – it might also have been that turning away was harder and the hand cue was high and fast. At the end, he turned towards you beautifully! So you can try a low and slow hand cue without cookies and see if that helps. And you can use this game to keep food versus toys balanced in training: the hand cue can have a boring treat in it 🙂 then you can release him off the board and throw the toy, to see what he does!
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>Bokeh has no experience backing up…>
No experience backing up? She did GREAT!!! You’ve also taught some lovely body awareness already so I am not surprised at how well she did. Yay!
My only suggestion is to leave your hands lower for now, at about nose level when she is in a natural stand. That will give her a focal point to back up from and makes it easier for her back up and quicker for you to toss the treat 🙂You can also play with the variation of this, using the mat as a destination (it is outlined here: https://agility-u.com/lesson/hind-end-awareness-backing-up-8/). She seems to really enjoy shaping, so it is fun to show her all sorts of approaches!
>I think our prop stuff continues to be meh.>
I disagree! I am happy with what she is doing 🙂 This is exactly what we want from the prop in this game! She is ‘finding the line’ really well even when you are not right to her.
Bear in mind that in this game, she might not hit the prop as distinctly as she does with the sends: on the sends, she is getting ready to turn. On the parallel path game, she is learning to find the line which means striding over the prop. So as long as she is going to it with intent and going over it, we don’t need her to give it a distinctive smack 🙂
You can break it up with more toy play to keep things exciting (she likes the treats but the toy play will keep her attention from wandering).
Also, instead of a ‘yes’ marker, use a ‘get it’ marker so she doesn’t look at you (‘get it’ should keep her looking straight and moving straight).
You can take this into a bigger space so you can add more lateral distance.
Also, you can move forward into the next steps:
– the countermotion on the sends
– starting closer to her on the parallel path game, so she drives ahead of you to the prop. That will lead you into the rear crosses really nicely! Because she is fast, you might want to do that in a long hallway or outdoors so the rear crosses are visible on time 🙂>I’m not sure if I should keep trying to advance with the weekly games or just try to get better prop interaction.>
The prop interaction is exactly where we need it to be – it is the basis for handling concepts, and she is totally getting them. Plus, we don’t want to spend too much time on the prop because we are going to fade it out pretty soon 🙂
>Also started to feel like intro to running contact training.>
For the running contact intro, I recommend something a little elevated and big enough for her to get all 4 feet across easily. She is a brilliant girlie, I don’t think she will have any questions about the difference when you start the running contact training.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning! Lots of good work here!
Toy races:
He did really well here, driving forward for the toy! TONS of speed!>I almost lost a finger on the done when he launched as I tossed the toy. I didn’t see that coming lol!>
I think that had to do with the transition from tugging to the line up and throw.
Before the collar hold, line him up with a cookie at your side, then take the collar. That will get him stabilized in position next to you (you can lock your arm so he doesn’t move as you throw) and he is likely to prefer that over being moved into position by pulling on his collar. Moving him by his neck might be adding more arousal than you need there (thus the jumping up) and the cookie lineups will keep things more centered for a good transition.
That will also allow you to run run run! Try to win! Hahaha god luck with that 🙂 but he will get used to seeing your motion if you are running hard when he is running too.
Prop games:
>so I have a love hate relationships with them apparently. We are still having a hard time. I’ve tried a few different ways to motivate.>
He did well here! The motivation level is good for what we need from these games, and he is hitting the prop pretty accurately.
The prop games are good for handling concepts, yes, but also great for handler mechanics and problem solving.
>He’s actually pretty good with forward but no good things are happening beyond that. >
The backwards sending at the beginning worked well, he sent and hit the prop nicely! If you want more pop and excitement to the behavior, add 2 things:
– end with an empty, slightly open hand so he is not looking at it for a treat.
– Use the toy as the reward. He did fine for the treats but he definitely liked the toy!
–
Remember to use your arm too: sometimes you used it, sometimes you didn’t (like on the sending forward).He also did much better when you added the ready dance before each rep
– that got a snappy hit of the prop, especially with the toy! When you did not use it and went from taking the toy out right into the send – he was not really ready and that is where we did not see the same snappy hit (like on the last rep).>Chata loved this skill so much. It was so fun, julee and Chase not so much so it must be me sigh…>
This might have more to do with the love of food versus love of toy. Julee and Chase like food, but the toy might be the winner here.
You can move on to the parallel path game. The sends are not meant to be perfect before you move on, and we revisit them in the countermotion game anyway 🙂
Turn and burn –
>I see that he’s swinging wide initially not sure why>
He is watching you a lot to see where to look/when you are going to move, because it was happening at all different times. So rather than watch the wing and the line, he was watching you and going slowly until you moved. and also not sure when to start sometimes.
I recommend doing this on a barrel or giant cone as we work out his questions before adding it to a wing 🙂 We don’t want any questions on the wing. And put a line on the ground to indicate when you should move – work this incredibly systematically to get the results, otherwise the pups go slowly until we move which is what he was doing here. The line should start at his exit of the barrel, so he is learning to finish the job by driving all the way around it – then you take off and run. What will build from doing that is he will really drive around the barrel, trying to get to the ‘end’ as fast as possible because it gets you to run 🙂 Then you can move the line so you can run earlier and earlier, but without the line we all do the FCs at different times which causes the dogs to watch us rather than think about the wing.
Nice work here!
Tracy
