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Good morning!
>>We can be 10’ from people to have low latency. We will keep working as you have outlined and go to different locations.>>
10 feet is GREAT! I think getting her to the point where she can walk through people on either side of her while playing back-and-forth pattern game will be the next step. It will kind of look like walking through the group on the ay to the start line, then past a gate steward, leash running, ring steward, judge, etc. So having her walk around groups of people starting at 10 feet then getting closer then eventually weaving through the crowd will really help!
>>So, the type of treat totally depends on the type of distractions that we have or may encounter. All kinds of soft meat dog treats or chicken and sometimes steak. Just kibble if we’re working with no or few distractions.
Perfect! And you can switch high value treats throughout a training session. Sometimes the “surprise” element of a new and yummy treat can be really reinforcing!
>> If I need to lure her through an area with continuous engagement, I will use a Toppl with cream cheese or squeeze cheese – it has super high value and I can toss it at the end of a run.>>
Yummy! And you can lure her through a crowded area using this, but we will also start to replace this with moving her through the pattern game. If you need to move her through a really tight area, keep the lure for now. If you have a little more room, you can use the pattern game.
>>I really like the idea of starting further into the ring. In fact, I had decided I would do this just to get away from that pressure.>>
Yay! It is really important to turn off the pressure as much as possible.
>>And hell yeah, to the invisible dog! I really don’t care what people think. >>
I have found that continuing to run the invisible dog then rewarding her when she re-joins us is incredibly helpful for sporting breeds/hunting dogs/bird dogs. They start to re-engage really quickly and then they stop disengaging. I don’t do it as much with Border Collies, because many of them just start herding the handler LOL!
>>I agree that our focus should be on engagement. It is the key to all things good. So should I not post any of our sequence videos?>>
You can totally post handling videos! The handling looks really good so you can keep building up those skills. It is more than in classes, you will want to focus on the engagement and not try to work too much on hard handling because you and she already know how to do that and it will be easy to do when you have the engagement and arousal where you want it.
>>For decompression she likes licking things the most – it takes longer, so pupsciles, Toppl, lickey mats…but also snuffle and treat scatters. >>
Perfect! More info is coming on decompression soon but you can totally use the licky stuff for those in and out of crate/xpens moments, as well as during the in-between moments such as waiting your turn outside the ring, or when talking to your instructor in class.
>>She likes all things food.
I can relate, I like all things food too hahaha!!
Keep me posted!!
TracyGood morning!
She just keeps finding new gears of speed. WOW! Fun!!! This video looked great and you two were NAILING it. Running each option only once and having it look this good? Fantastic!
There are some small details to consider in a session that was overall really lovely:
First sequence:
You can set her up on a slice line facing 2 rather than straight to 1 (that will help with the turn 1-2, because she won’t have to turn on landing). And with her speed on the lines, you can use more of a collection cue (physical and verbal) for the first jump – you took a couple of steps forward to 1 so she was wide. You can try a quiet left verbal and one step and see how she does (plus lining her up on a slice will make it easier).I am happy with her collection at 3-4! That FC is HARD to get tight and you had a really nice transition into decel and verbal, she she put in a collection. I like what she is doing – responding really well to turn cues without bleeding off speed before or after. YAY!
You can also look at some of the bigger faster lines in terms of naming/handling the whole line, rather than each element of it. So for the ending line at :12 – you can be turning sooner and say tunnel sooner so she turns sooner 7-8 (she slipped there). Go Tunnel can be repeated and that will help her find the tunnel on the line sooner.
Seq 2: Really well done with the BC and lead out push on these!
Small detail – she was jumping straight over 2 so by changing your position slightly, we can get her to jump already turned and land already facing 3.
Nice timing of the BC! As you are moving up the line, use lateral distance and motion so you can be running more towards 3 rather than straight past 2 then towards 3. That will get her turning before she takes 2 for a smoother line to 3.
The position on the lead out push can be more center of the bar and not as far across the bar. You can be right on the bar, with your hand across the center of it, so she sees the exact line you want. Then as she takes off for 1, you can stay connected like you did and start moving to 3 with your arm back – that way you will get the turn AND you will get out of the way for the #2 jump 🙂
The rest looked great!
Sequence 3: set her up on a slice facing 2 not straight to 1 – setting up straight adds more turning 🙂 So definitely look for the slice lines on a lot of these openings.
She needed a slightly stronger turn cue on 3 – you decelerated at 1:00 with a post turn and she was a bit wide because the post turn keeps you facing forward. Yo can try a brake arm (opposite arm) as she is landing from 2, or you can do a spin! She will give us feedback about what is better for now. Getting a slightly better turn on 3 will also let you get on the RC pressure line sooner before you even pass 4. She read the RC really well!
>>Not sure about the bar, but I didn’t repeat that sequence.
She has been great with her jumping form so I am not too concerned about the rare bar. In this scenario, I think you told her GO for 7 but it is a subtle turn there- she was doing the GO and tried to adjust for the turn when she saw you turn, so the bar was down at 1:06. You might have said ‘JUMP!’, it had the volume and intensity of GO so you can try using a quieter ‘jump’ verbal there.
Seq 4 – set her up on a slice 1-2 🙂 That is a theme here – look for the slice lines on the openings so she is not always facing straight then turning after landing.
Then run like mad to the BC 3-4 but wow you are nailing the timing and connection at 1:20!!
She was a little wide even with the good timing but because you were decelerated 1-2-3 til she was landing from 2… then you took off into the BC so the first thing she saw was the acceleration which put her into extension and she didn’t have time to dial it back for the tighter turn. Your connection helped her a whole lot!!! Really terrific moment of working the connection there.
Sequence 5:
She read the slice lines 1-2 really well!!! Yay!You can get that layered line 3-4-5 even more easily by cuing it as soon as she is over landed from 2: start accelerating a few steps and yelling Go Tunnel Go Tunnel (then when you see her lock on the line, you can move to your new position but keep yelling the verbals 🙂 ). You were decelerated there and started the verbals as she lifted for 3, but you can show a bit more motion and start the info sooner. That will power up the jumping even more – she ticked a bar or two on that layered line.
VERY nice turn out of the tunnel! That is an especially hard turn to get and you nailed it. At 1:37, when she was still a stride away from the tunnel entry, you were in position, rotated, and using a quiet verbal. Click/treat for YOU! That then set up a good turn 6-7 😁
For jump 8 at 1:42 – you were supporting the line as if you were going back to the tunnel so she took off in extension looking at the tunnel. She turned when she landed (good girl for not ended up in the yummy tunnel!) but she probably doesn’t need the support for 8 as much. When she lands from 7 you can send to 8 and leave for 9-10, and I bet that gets her to turn before takeoff.
Really terrific job here!!!!! So exciting! Do you think the patterns and snuffle breaks helped her stay mentally fully focused for each sequence? I mean, running these all pretty much perfectly the first time is impressive!!!
Great job 🙂 😍
Tracy
Good morning! Really lovely session here – she is driving fast, listening to all the cues, turning really well. You were super connected, ran strong lines, and also got your verbals out! Hooray!!!!
>>For some reason she was a little weird about jumping toward the fence. I’m not sure if it looked too close to her or what.
Yes, she definitely had a question there at :13. It looked like the release was a little unclear in terms of the physical cue to the jump and then you rotated away, so she was not sure. And the fence being in front of her could have totally contributed! And practicing with a fence right there is great because we see that specific situation ALL THE TIME now in trials (taking the first jump towards a wall or fence).When you were clear on the handling by stepping directly at the jump and maintaining connection til she was just about lifting off, she nailed it confidently 🙂
>>Also, you will see one try where she goes to the tunnel instead of taking the first jump. Do you see what I’m doing wrong here. She did that a couple of times in prior practice.>>
Yes, that was at 1:46 – you had a side step there on the release so there was not a lot of indication to take 1. Because she is inexperienced, you will see that she is VERY literal about following your handling. When she is more experienced? She will take #1 no matter what you do LOL!! For now, she is going to watch you like a hawk: you stepped sideways to the tunnel instead of to the jump, so she was coming to the tunnel. Good girl! So for now, make a really big obvious step towards that first jump until you see her locking onto it and even lifting her feet to takeoff.
>>My timing was WAY off on the first run. I think it got a bit better on the next few runs.>>
A little late on the FC in that first run but you TOTALLY fixed it at 1:08, LOVED the timing of that one!!! And you were still good at 2:04 – perfect verbal timing there even though the physical cue was not as perfect as at 1:08 🙂
You can also try a BC between 3 and 4 as it might be easier to finish the rotation faster and get a tighter line. The timing would be the same but with blinds, we can turn and leave a lot faster than we would be able to with a FC.
She had a question on one of the bars at 1:13 – a little more decel on the way into it helped set the turn better at 2:08.Seq 2:
Great stay! Great connection!We can tighten up the turn 2-3 and get you moving 3-4-5 sooner by putting your lead out position right on the line you want her to run 2-3. So you will be closer to 2, standing kind of on the center of the bar. As soon as she lands from 1, maintain the connection you had here and start moving to 3.
That will get her to turn before takeoff of 2 (rather than after landing) so you can send to 3 and leave sooner for the next line. The next line on this sequence is easy but leaving sooner will help you on bigger courses at trials.
The RC went really well! You can start move a little more to the center of the bar at 3 (not as much pull to the left turn wing of 3) but she read it all really well!
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I am excited, I feel like the needle is moving the right direction. I am sure we will run into some roadblocks to navigate around, but he is just being SUCH a good boy!
At this point, we can start tracking the specific distance away he needs to be in order to do the hand-tap-cookie game, the pattern games, and tugging. The pieces are starting to come together so one way to track progress is to track the distances away he needs to be (he will continue to get closer and closer).
Since he can’t yet tug or eat consistently right outside the ring, two ideas for you:
– at home, practice hand tap, cookie… then into the ring at home or anything fun. It will help build up the behavior of engagement and eating into something associated with the REAL fun (running around the agility ring!). You can also use tugging as the behavior before the ring. It is entirely possible that he can do both of these easily at home, and that is still great to rehearse: practice makes pathways! And at Rising Star, for example, you can be outside in the parking lot or on the concrete walkway: hand touch. cookie or toy, then into the building. Do it first during course builds and walk throughs (those are likely less stimulating than someone like me yelling TUNNEL TUNNEL TUNNEL haha) and there will be less traffic so you can go inside for maybe 30 seconds, then outside and repeat the process. It might be very hard after the 1st or 2nd rep, so just do one or two reps then take him up to the grass to sniff around or maybe to the trees to pee on all the things LOL
– we need some type of ‘chill’ behavior to help us bridge the gap of distance from where he can eat & tug, to the start line. I realize you might be chuckling right now because it is possible that Vinny has NO CHILL yet in that environment but we can train it! And it is a bit of fake chill, honestly, because he won’t exactly be having nap 🙂 He will be relatively stationary and NOT barking/moving/staring/obsessing on what is happening in the ring. And while he is hanging out next to you, you won’t be having to manage him or watch him much so you can look at the course. We do have a big section on that in he 3rd set of games but I would like to start it with him now. So… what does he like to do at home where he might stand near you, without food or toys? Does he like being touched/petted? Line up between your feet? Does he have a mat or bed or cot he can stand on? Let’s start to brainstorm it a bit and then develop it. It might seem like the holy grail to have him be able to stand out side the ring calmly(ish) without you having to manage him but I totally know he can learn it!!
>> Nov 5th weekend but he can work outside the ring even if we don’t get in the ring that weekend.>>
Perfect! And if you don’t get into the ring, that is fine, but since he is being perfect in his ring training lately, it would be nice for him to have some fun in the ring. Because his brain will be working hard with the other stuff, keep anything in the ring really easy. I like t o dial things back 50% – if the young dog might have to do a LOT of processing in the internal and external environments, I will make. the course 50% (or more) easier. His attentional state might be a bit divided and I don’t want him to fail in the ring.
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
I agree with what you wrote here: keep it simple, keep it fun!!!
>> Levy is really happily putting on the leash and going a short way to his yum yum station.
Excellent! If it is a slip leash, you can make a trick out of it and shape him to put his head in it while you hold it open. It is a fun clicker game LOL!
>> I am now thinking it might be best to skip the tugging the on the leash and just slipping it on instead and head straight out to the yum yum station. Then reward with both food and tug.>>
Both are good plans, and it will come down to what he tells us he needs. Some dogs it is better to tug, some it is better to not tug. He will give us feedback by either NOT asking to tug, or asking to tug 🙂
>>I do not want to be struggling to get the tug out of his mouth, and I will not be bringing up his arousal at the end of the run. >>
If the general routine is – end of run, put leash on, tug, run out for treats, you will be fine 🙂 He will give the toy up and for many many dogs, tugging at the end actually balances the arousal and helps bring it back to a calmer state. Think of it as a release of energy and a bit of decompression (more on that coming on Monday).
The coolest part about this is that the dogs really tell us what they want. Levy’s brother CB made it clear that at the end of an agility run, he wants his cheese and not a tug. So he finishes, I grab the leash, put it on really quick, and we run to get his cheese 🙂 I am sure that once we begin asking the questions, Levy will give us the answers 🙂
I think the remote reinforcement games will also help – we start all of this on Monday 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>Results were not as successful as hoped, but not exactly a surprise either. How can I help him understand this better?>>
Wait, what? I thought this went GREAT!! 6 reps, 5 successes. You made the great decision to kinda walk through it because it is such a hard skill – and that really helped him. It was hard and he had to think really hard – but he did great! And we have not really looked at this skill in a while and he still did well. You were really good with the cues and shoulder turn and line of motion – yay!!!!
He got it right on reps 1, 2, 4, 5 (go tunnel rep) and 6. Did he have to think about it and process? Yup! But still got it! Rep 3 was not quite right 🙂 when he offering going back to the tunnel entry he had just passed. But those not quite right reps are important too (just as long as there are not that many of them).
So unless there were more errors that are not here, I call this session a win. You can both start moving faster and faster.
>> How can I help him understand this better?>>
Practice this a few more times, as long as you are clear with the handling like you were here.
Great job!!
TracyHi!
Safe travels on your way to and from FL! On your way back, are you taking I-95 or I-81? I am not too far off of 81 in Virginia!Nice work on the RCs versus Go lines! She is definitely sorting it out – and we can get the info to her sooner, which will help her rear the RCs sooner especially on the left turns.
The goal is that she sees the RC info of you running to the center of the bar as soon as she is out of the tunnel. What was happening was you were running on the Go line for 2 or 3 steps then getting onto the RC line, so she was reading the RC pressure for the right turns right before takeoff or in the air (and not as easily on the left side).
So ideally we take out any of the go-straight running line and only show RC line to the center of the bar (it is hard for sure, because we don’t want to push her off the line :))
Since pictures explain it better, I put some arrows on the lines. You can see what she sees when she is exiting the tunnel on these, so ideally you would be closer to her when she exits the tunnel so you can be running forward to the center of the bar until she is past you and looking at the bar, then you can cut behind her to finish the RC 🙂
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AZ-GFDCIwMeid-2TiCtWtWxcfUKr3C1y8En1_t6uSAI/edit?usp=sharing
That can help get the right turn RCs even sooner and get the left turn RCs happening very consistently.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Nice work on these!!
>.On the turn from 3 to 4 I just couldn’t get spatial awareness of where I should be. I think I’m just thinking so much about her turning that it’s messing with me moving off early enough. I only did the front cross once, but felt like I was facing her too long without rotating through the turn early enough.>>
When doing crosses and serps from ahead of the dog, ideally we run exactly on their line or as close to it as we can get. Any wider than that will cue the dog to go wider. And there is no collision danger because we keep moving and are long gone from the line by the time they get to it 🙂 The FXs, BXs ad serps are all chase lines, so we can run on the exact line we want them to chase us on on.
On both the FX and BX, I think you were supporting 3 more than needed by running straight past it (:09 and :27) which automatically cues her to jump long based on your line of motion. On the FX rep, you ended up moving backwards as you were finishing the FX which created some of the wideness too (the dogs always drive to our line of motion on those).
>>The blind cross also felt strange although I think for her it might be the better choice.>>
I agree that the BX is a better choice than the FX here because it turns your feet to the next line sooner & faster than the FX does. You can get it even tighter by sending to 3 and taking off towards 4 – starting the BX as soon as she looks at 3 so you can be strongly reconnected before she takes off for 3. Your reconnection at :53 was very strong and clear, so do it like that but try t let her see that before she takes off. That timing and position will challenge her commitment but I think she is ready!
You can also consider doing the BX further down the line between 4-5 – send to 3 from miles away, then run to between 4-5. As soon as you see her feet lifting off for 3, start the blind (and keep moving of course) so you are reconnected to see her taking off for 4 🙂
The rest was lovely!!
>. On the first rep of blind cross she dropped the last bar which didn’t bother me at all and in fact reviewing my videos this is the only bar she dropped on any sequence so I’m super happy with that.>>
Her jumping looked great!! And the bar down was handler error from decelerating and reaching for the toy. Keep running through the last jump as if there is one more jump because if you disconnect or decel, she is changing her form, looking at you more and there was the one bar down.
>>I don’t mark bars as a rule as I feel like it’s me most of the time but on the video I’m commenting that the bar came down which I didn’t even know I’d said. Pretty sure she didn’t take it as mark though as that would not be my intention. It’s become a bit of a flavour of the month here – many are marking every bar and yelling at dogs to lie down every time it happens which I don’t want to do.>>
It is common practice here too, and I can write a dissertation on why it is a bad idea. And I am also pretty sure she did not take it as a punisher and it definitely did not look like you intended it that way 🙂
Sequence 5: Also looking great! Small suggestions for you:
Before you release from 1, you can give her more o fan open upper body (like a serp cue where both of your shoulders face 1 but your feet face 2, so she is already turning before she takes off rather than after landing (1:14)
The brake arms and decel and verbal at 2 set up a GREAT turn at 1:15!!!!! Fast and tight!
For the layered line: Turn on your GO verbal sooner for 3-4-5. You got quiet there and very lateral, so ideally we would like her to start driving to you based on your motion and your silence (she did not even consider it LOL!). So as soon as she exits 2, start the GO GO GO GET IN cues so she has permission to ignore your line of motion. And that will also help get better turns because unless you give her verbal permission to ignore your motion, we will always want her to follow your motion.
You got a little past 6 and had to back up but that contributed to her slightly wide turn. And on that 2-handed ‘brake’ cue, you can direct your hands back towards her face more (and less towards the jump) to get better collection. That becomes more important (hands towards her) in the middle of a sequence, because there is so much more motion. At he beginning of this sequence, there was already decel so the hand position didn’t matter as much
The rest looked really good – maybe even a little uncomfortable for you both because it was too easy LOL!!!
Fantastic job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Thank you for the update, it sounds like he did really well!!! YAY!!! And we got some good feedback from him.
>>When I brought him over from the car and got up to the ring he couldn’t focus on me. So, I moved back until I could get a response. He wouldn’t do his pattern games at all but he would tap my hand so I did one to one hand to and food. >>
So he would eat after a hand tap? That is good! We can of course make up any pattern game using anything he is comfy with especially at this early stage. If can be hand tap – treat – hand tap to the other hand – treat. (Yes you might need a 3rd hand haha). When he ate the treat, was it from your hand or did you toss it or place it on your foot? We can tweak the games to do what he is comfy with and also try to get the physiological effects of the food placement.
Question: could he tug outside the ring? Or on the way from the car to the ring? I did patterns with 2 toys when my Contraband was about Vinny’s age – CB couldn’t really eat in high arousal environments (he is half BC and half Whippet and neither breed is known to be foodies in high arousal LOL!) but the 2 toy version of the game really helped center him (and did NOT shoot him into overarousal). I have video of it *somewhere* so I will find it. It is basically: tug – ask for an out – re-engage – tug from the other hand – ask for an out – re-engage – tug from the first hand and so on. I did it with a frisbee in each hand because it those were the only things motivating enough for him to be able to re-engage with me. It was easy enough to fade the frisbees to toy then to food.
>>I was able to get him to walk, not drag me to the ring. In the ring he was close to perfect. Start lines were good and I only did a few so I didn’t push it too much then let him leave from my side. All in all a positive experience. >>
Fantastic!!!!!! good boy! And good for you for making excellent decisions to set both of you up for success. Happy dance for you both!!
>>I know it will be tougher at Rising Star. When I’m there next weekend I’ll get some video.
That is the weekend of November 4-5? We add new games on Monday and can play with some other things, so you can go in with a plan 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
Sounds like you are making excellent choices for her!!! YAY!! And remember, by day 4, her brain will be tired so make it as easy as possible for her.>>She left me once driving a line of jumps I didn’t ask for but readily came back to play tug, then back to “work” which she seemed to relish. We left the ring before she wanted to! >>
Driving a line of jumps is great 🙂 Sometimes we handlers are late with info so if a young dog drives a line of jumps because that is what they see in the handling? SUPER!!! Just keep going when that happens, make up a course if you need to LOL!!
Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
>>. I think they were nice and focused at the barn and I left the doors open for distractions. >>
I agree, they were both terrific!!!
Sequence 1 went really well for both of them! Small suggestions:
Line them both up on a slice at 1, facing the tunnel, and not straight to jump 1. That way they have a faster, easier line without needed to really turn before 1.
Huck’s run looked good! He had some questions (looking at you) because you kept looking forward. Try to make and maintain connection all the way through so he can look at his line the whole time.
Maple also did really well! Becase she is experienced and has a much bigger stride, you will need to do the FC between 3 and 4 sooner. You started it when she was over the bar of 3, so it was too late for her to adjust and turn til after she landing. Try to start it no later than one stride after she exits the tunnel: when you see she is fully out of the tunnel, cue the jump and start the FC 🙂 That should give her the info sooner so she can adjust before takeoff.
2nd course:
For Huck, his stay looked great! Yay! And you did a good job working the timing of the blind 2-3! The BC for him needs to start no later than when he is halfway between 1 and 2, so when he is jumping 2 you are already making connection on the new side. You were late on the first one at :25 (he was already landing from 2, so he ended up on the other side of you). Nice adjustment after that – you nailed the timing at :51!!! 1:37 was good too!Then after he lands from 2, you needed to stay connected and step more to 3, til he is passing you and looking at 3. At :53 you were pointing forward ahead of him which points your shoulders to the line away from the jump (where he went). 1:39 had much better connection!
Part of what wil help 2-3 if is you don’t run as close to 2 or as far past it, becuase that presents a straight line and makes getting a good turn over 2 and finding 3 harder. So be a little more lateral so you are running to 3 the whole time, which will help him read the line sooner.
>>I’m not sure why I was getting wrong side of tunnel?
When you didn’t run towards it til he was locking on (:59), he turned with you. When you ran towards it til he locked on – he nailed it like at 1:43. Great connection there!
Maple – we can move your position over on lead out push, so she sees the turn sooner. At :29, you were on the other sideof 2, closer to the tunnel, and that position presents a straight line over 2 to her, so she doesn’t see the line to 3 at all, You can be more on the center of the bar because that will show the turn sooner. No worries about getting hit or in her way because as soon as she lands from 1, you will begin moving to 3 🙂 That will set a nice turn!
On her 2nd run – I think a BC like with Huck is a better choice than the FC – the FC will end up being late like at 1:04 even if you start it on time (which you did) because the rotation is time consuming. The BC here will be quick and fast so it is a better option 🙂
Nice turns on 3 for Maple, and lovely drive down the line to the tunnel!!
Great job!
TracyHi!
>>The comment “Why was the dropped bar my fault” was sarcastic as I didn’t stop. I knew it was my fault and was happy with him.>>
I figured it was sarcastic and not meant to support your decision.
>>is what I’ll focus on along with lowering the bars to 16 for sequences and working through the height in grids with motion.
He is a really fast adolescent dog with a ginormous stride – it is gonna take a little longer to smooth out the teamwork than it would with a smaller, medium-speed adult dog. So, be patient, keep your eye on the prize: the results will be TOTALLY worth it!!!
T
Hi!
I am glad you liked the webinar – connection is one of my favorite topics!!The video from Changtse’s class is very insightful!
The class environment seems challenging for her – even with high value treats, she was looking at the environment and while she was doing the tricks, it took her a little longer to do them and she was not doing them with speed. And at the end, she was still interested in looking at the environment because she went to the end of the leash. So my question is: how did her run(s) go?if they were perfect (fast, focused, accurate) then we don’t need to change anything 🙂
If there was room for improvement (more speed can happen, more engagement can happen) then try this: before doing the tricks/volume dial. work the pattern games in that environment. When she can re-engage immediately, then you can start asking for the tricks. Let me know how it goes! We will have more of that coming on Monday 🙂
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the info!!!
>>She can do pattern games around people, but it is super difficult. She’s a walmart greeter.
This is hugely helpful info and great feedback from the dog (especially since she can’t speak English LOL!!!)
You will need to get the pattern games to be much easier for her around people. There is some sort of pressure or anxiety she feels in NOT being able to freely interact or move away from them. We dn’t know exactly why, but we do know the pattern games will help.
So, separately from running courses, work the back-and-forth and up-and-down game at a distance away from people where she can re-engage almost immediately. It might take a bit of work to find that distance! 15 feet? 20 feet? 100 feet? And that is your starting point, whatever that distance is. Then you can ping pong your way into getting closer to the people for a couple of reps, then further from them, and closer, then further, until you can walk through a crowd of people with her being able to immediately re-engage after a cookie and ignore them. This might take a few sessions, so no worries if it doesn’t happen immediately.
You can also take little field trips to be around people and play these games – a park, or Petsmart, or anywhere you can be around people and also control the distance away from them you are.
What type of treats are you using with her?
>> On our first run, I don’t have her attention at all. She’s, as of late, completely distracted with people and the environment. >>
For her runs in class: you can ask her if she is ready at the start line by, still on leash, doing a quick pattern game (up and down, back and forth, whichever one you think she prefers. If she has really low latency and immediately re-engages after a treat? You are probably fine to run the sequence 🙂
If she has high latency (slower to re-engage) or no latency (does not re-engage) or can’t eat… don’t run the sequence from that starting point.
Instead, try moving further into the ring and start in the middle, further from the challenge of the people/dogs nearby and see if that is better (a quick pattern game there can giv eyou insight as well) . You can start by just doing a ready-set-go into a tunnel 🙂 and if something goes wrong in the handling, don’t stop, don’t fix, don’t mark it, just keep going. She is learning to regulate her arousal and handler errors can throw that off if you stop or fix.
>> Just a thought – This may be happening more since our class is now at dusk.
Ah, that is an excellent insight – things look different at dusk, and the body acts different at dusk!
>>So, I call her back and we pick up at whatever obstacle we’re standing near.
Try this: rather than call her back, just keep handling your invisible dog and finish the sequence and reward your invisible dog. We have had enormous success with hunting dogs/bird dogs by doing this – it relieves the pressure they might be feeling, keeps it fun, and they come back quickly and then stop leaving in the first place. The “keep going, no stopping no matter what” is hard at first for us humans 🙂 but TOTALLY worthwhile.
>> If it happens a couple of more times, we leave and go for a walk. It is very frustrating and I try to keep my happy face on. It gets better on subsequent runs and she can play games at the start.>>
If you try the suggestions above, you will see it happening less and less 🙂 Try it and keep me posted! You are a lovely handler so you don’t really need the handling practice – that is why we can devote the energy to getting the engagement.
>>Her feral animal behavior – I think it happens most often when I’m leashing or unleashing and/or asking her to get IN or OUT of her crate or xpen. LOTS of jumping up to bite or mouth>>
Ah, overarousal, maybe in anticipation of the challenge of what is coming next or residual arousal from what just happened – that shifts her into an overaroused velociraptor state. We will be working on decompression skills starting on Monday and that will REALLY help! For now, give her something else to do that will decompress her. Some dogs like to carry something in their mouth in this situation (my teenage whippet carries a toy or a shoe LOL, my terrier carries a bully stick). Some dogs do better with a snuffle mat or a lickimat or a stuff kong or a scatter of treats. What does she like? We can start to use that as a way to get rid of the velociraptor behavior 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>There are a few trials in the next two months at better facilities.
Perfect!!
>> But, until I feel she can line up in class it’s probably not worth entering her. She isn’t better with a toy in my hand. Last night in class she immediately starts grabbing grass as we walk towards the first jump..>>
This indicates arousal state shifts, attentional state shifting, etc. All TOTALLY normal for the start line.
One of the best ways to work through it is to take the start line out of it for a bit, in challenging situations. I personally never ask my dogs for start line stays or positions in their first NFC runs. I do a little collar hold and ready-set-go! Then we go have a great time running sequences for a toy. That sets the tone of relaxed, happy, fun in the ring… which in turn makes getting the start line 1000 times easier when I do ask for it. It really turns the pressure off, especially for dogs that need to move when they are aroused. The dog will tell me when they are ready for start line stays because they generally start offering it when I take the leash off in class or in my NFC runs.
The start line is one of the absolute hardest things and can really poison the trial environment, so why add it if it is not ready? We can do soooo much to help the dogs without stressing them or ourselves over lineup or stay 🙂 It is a behavior that is as challenging as a running dog walk or weave poles, maybe more challenging – and no one has their dogs do running dog walk work or weave poles as the very first thing in a trial, or as the indicator or readiness to do other stuff in the trial ring LOL! Getting the trial environment to be a fun optimal arousal place is more important than the harder skills, which are like puzzle pieces that can be added in later.
The stay gets pretty easy when all the other elements are in place and the trial ring has been established as a good place to be.
>> I don’t think the position matters as she isn’t listening to cues. Just scanning the environment>>
It is not that she isn’t listening… it is that she cannot process the cues in that context. So ask for something else rather than emphasize cues she can’t process. And letting her just stand can relieve a lot of the pressure. And also letting the dog move (by not asking for a stay, just getting going) can REALLY help to relieve th pressure of the moment.
And no, it does not ruin the stay 🙂 It strengthens the stay behavior!
>> Of interest, if I back off and then tried to set her up but at a further distance from the first jump she did better. So, I’ll try that next time on the first attempt.>>
Definitely good to know and try!
>> I am also playing around with a spin at my side as we get close. She’s clearly feeling pressure in the approach and line up. Once she sat, she did very well. She doesn’t vulture, lean forward etc on the start line. We did pattern games on the side while the dog before her ran plus a quick snuffle.>>
Starting on Monday, we add the arousal states and attentional states into the mix to begin getting a bigger picture of what she needs. What you are likely seeing is overarousal which will shift the dog into the divided attentional state.
>>Here’s back and forth outside a dog park. As I’m getting ready to start a lady lets her pug pull her towards us as she thought it would be great to let her dog say hi.>>
Of course it would be great – NOT! LOL!
The pattern game looked great! You can tell by her movement and muscle tone here that she was aroused, but latency of re-engagement also indicates that the environment was stimulating but not that challenging for her.Next steps for this game and for up-and-down and volume dial: do it in front of a jump and in front of a tunnel, just a few feet away. Start at home and if that goes well, you can move it to the training facility.
Great job here! Keep me posted!
Tracy
