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Hi!
This is definitely a hard skill, and definitely a trained skill 🙂 Backchaining is a good way to go with this skill and your idea of having the MM out at the entry can help too!
This other thing you can do is move the weaves closer to the tunnel exit so they are much easier to see without you being there (and also maybe only 6 poles). So when she exits the tunnel, then are *right there* and hard to miss 🙂You can even have them a little more on the line for when she curls in, or make the angle easier so they are easier to see on the line. Then over time, you can start to move the weaves further away, and onto harder angles. But starting the weaves even closer will help!
One more thing – you can take the DW out of the picture entirely and just do a send from the tunnel to the weaves, without you moving. Sit in a chair, have an ice cream 🙂 and let her do all the work! That way, on the verbal, she can find them – then the DW will can come back in and it will be more easy for her to find the weaves 100 miles away 🙂
Let me know how she does!
TracyHi!
He was keen to get on it, but yes – there was a lot of movement and bounce to the board when he got to the top. The top wobbled and moved, and the other end was bouncing up and down. You can see him reacting to it when he got past the pivot point.
So definitely get it completely stable for him for now before he tries it again. You can lower it if it is hard to stabilize it as full height.
And, to help him look to the top, put a target at the edge of the board (duct tape will work well!) and smear some cream cheese or peanut butter on it – that will give him a focal point to go to, to get a massive reward 🙂
Keep me posted!!
TracyHi!
The countermotion game is looking really good! She did well with all of the challenges you showed her 🙂
Next step: You can exaggerate the rotation and countermotion even more on this by doing it sooner (because wing commitment is easy at this point):
After the first send back to the wing as you are running forward, start your decel sooner so you can rotate fully before she gets to you 🙂 You will basically be facing her and sending her back behind you to the wing (and even moving towards her before she passes you.
That way your dog side arm is not committing her to the wing – it is your ‘new’ arm on the exit of the FC. That will be harder of course 🙂 but it will translate to extreme commitment skills and wicked tight turns 🙂 You might need to do it at a walk first to get it rolling, then add more and more speed 🙂2nd video – having the tunnel out there made it a bit of a wing-tunnel discrimination game too! It took her a heartbeat but then she nailed it 🙂 The soft turns and the wraps looked good! To make it more fun, you can sometimes send her to the tunnel and then get her back on the soft turn line – feel free to set up your own sequences so you can set it up so the tunnel is in the middle of it, not just at the end 🙂
The plank confidence looked good when it was not moving. The tip was actually significant enough that she was concerned (slowing down and crouching a bit, even with the treat at the end). Can you take out maybe half of the tip, or put a thick towel or something under it to diminish the tip? That way we can keep that speed up so she doesn’t think about the tip at all.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Happy 4th!
I think he was surprised in the very first rep but the rest were great! Nice job with the connection shift from his eyes to the wing, plus a very clear arm & leg cue. I loved that he wanted to start without you LOL! It means he thinks this is FUN!
He seemed to have no questions about continuing to commit as you walked away – that was a LOT of countermotion! You can really see it at 2:08 for example, when the camera shows him wrapping the wing and you were already about 6 feet away, moving through the box.
He had one little question at 2:37 – you moved maybe one step too soon, but he stayed in flow (went to the next wing and wrapped it) so you stayed in flow and the he nailed it.
And then after that – yes, he was done 🙂 Don’t ask for one more because it won’t be as good. Instead, set the timer for 2 minutes and then finish up after it goes off. On these, we humans don’t have to move much but the dogs have to run!
You can definitely add the next steps with more motion, the FCs, and the race tracks!
>>Anyway, I apparently didn’t hit the record button hard enough because I didn’t get it recorded. He didn’t seem too bothered by it
Yay! No worries about not getting it on video – as long as he loved it, we are good! You can do another one or two sessions like that then maybe add another centimeter of tip 🙂 Slow and steady to train and awesome teeter!!
Great job here!
TracyHi!
Wow, look at Sid on the big course!!! He did great! So did you!He has a great stay, and really excellent understanding of getting on a line and staying on a line. And as you get more and more recovery in your knee, you will have even more freedom to get to different spots on course. Exciting times ahead!!!!
First video: RC to the right – great job with the RC pressure and throwing the reward, both of those helped him a lot.
2nd video – also terrific! You are doing a great job of staying connected and not rushing him.
3rd video – left RC – you can get onto the left turn line sooner by moving to the center of the bar sooner – the toy throw got the turn. As long as you let him get past you before you cut in to the new side, you can get right on the rear cross pressure line to the center of the bar.
4th video: this was fabulous!! You have VERY clear info for the rear cross (moving to the center of the bar on the RC jump), great connection, and clear verbals!! And he found the line back to the tunnel really well too.
5th video – also really nice!
Since he is very happy to drive ahead, you can start moving to the center of the bar sooner. You pulled to the wrap wing for a step or two then got on the RC line. You don’t need to pull to turn him, you can just decelerate a little and then move to the center of the bar like you did in video 4.
The rest of it looked great!!6th video – blind cross! Wowza!!!!! excellent use of distance (and verbals and connection) to get a great position. And your connection on the exit of the blind was great 🙂
7th video – also super!!! All of your distance work is paying off! I thought you were one step later starting the blind on this rep than on the previous rep – so it was a tiny bit late. On this rep he was just about taking off for the jump, so he was a little wider on the landing of the blind. The previous vide, you started it right after he landed from the middle jump and that was perfect timing!
Both blind cross reps had great connection – nailed it!!!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>>It means a lot that you’re willing to go deep into the issues and the theories
behind them.>>It is really important to have these conversations! Soooooo much happens in learning that is outside the operant realm, so we try to look at the big picture of it all.
>>The barking outside is troublesome for me too, especially nonstop before swimming or ball playing. This was the first time she barked nonstop before a training session in the same way as before swimming.>>
“Cheap” behaviors like barking (cheap = easy to do) generalize very quickly, unlike expensive behaviors (hard ones, like a running dog walk LOL!)
>> And as you said, I believe it’s excitement barking and she doesn’t even know she’s doing it.
It is communication and it may or may not be an operant choice – I doubt she is thinking “Perhaps I shall bark now.” I think it is more like “OMG SWIMS I LOVE SWIMMS I AM SOOOO EXCITED HURRY UP LETS SWIMMMS”
>>It’s important that I figure something out soon. For swimming or ball playing, >>
There is still some barking built in based on what you describe, so maybe a lickimat with a tiny bit of cream cheese or a snuffle mat will help diminish that?
>>Until I started this class, I didn’t know excitement barking can be a good thing.🤪.>>
My Behavior Vets friends and I are planning an entire webinar on barking! It can be GREAT in terms of arousal work and getting engagement.
>>During our tunnel sessions she did bark at me for one thing and I think she was saying I don’t understand what you want. So I just gave her the toy and tried to figure out how to make it easier for her, which I did.
She was happy with the outcome and so was I. Much better! Thank you!>>Yay! Happy dance! Barking is communication, so approaching it as trying to answer her questions will help the barking be a lot less aversive to you.
>>When we’re done with our sessions she does Not want to come back to the rest of the house with me. She wants to go back to the living room and play some more.
Bless her heart.>>Sweet girlie!! So some of the barking might be her saying “OMG I AM SO EXCITED TO PLAY WITH DA MOMMAAAA!!!!!!”
>>So, question on the delayed reinforcement..are we supposed to gradually put the rewards lower and lower?
Not for this specific game, you can keep it on a reward station. But separately, you can work up to having a toy on the ground, for example, like in the handling combos: you put a toy on the ground, move away, send her around the wing, then to the toy.
Tracy
Hi!
The stay challenge looked great! The food reward reps went well, she liked the food reward and did really well… but it was the toy that made it super exciting! And you did a great job of releasing her before she moved on those too.
>. I noticed when I watched back that she had her butt up in one of the toy reps – bad me for not staying connected but at least she didn’t break lol.>>
Yes, the toy is more stimulating, so be sure to do a butt check as you lead out LOL!!!
So the next step is to do this in front of her prop, in front of her barrel take this challenge outside, in front of a tunnel… exposing her to all the different situations while keeping her success rate high like you had it here 🙂
Nice work!!
TracyGreat job here too!
You didn’t even need to move as much as you did here, she totally got the idea right away. Both directions looked super strong and her turns looked lovely 🙂For the verbals: gently hold her collar, start saying the verbal… then let her go to start the turn. That way she is hearing the verbal before you and she start to move – and that is a good way to solidfy the understanding.
When you get outside – yes, move ot the advanced level. And you can also let her start and you can stand still (no shoulder help to go around the minny pinny). And if she is happy with that (and I bet she will be!) you can then let her start moving and you start the FC and go the other way (countermotion!) as soon as she is passing the first wing.
You can also play this with a toy! Line up for a cookie, then get a toy as the reward especially as you add more movement. I think she will like that!
Nice work!
TracyHi!
Super nice job here! She was able to sort it out really nicely in both directions even when you worked up to her having to go past the tunnel entry that was right next to her to go find the threadle entry. Super!!!!! Waiting for her to look at the correct side of the tunnel was smart and set up a lot of success. Adding the verbal cue went well too!
For the next session, do a quick warm up to review this and if she is happy with it, you can move to the double whammy game:
Great job!
TracyHello and welcome back! It sounded so fun!!!
>.Worked on performance goals, not just complete the exercise as a goal.>>
Yes! The layering skill will help with a LOT of performance goals so I am glad you did not skip it 🙂
When working the layering, you can still throw the toy even if he doesn’t quite get the jump – on the first and 3rd reps, he stayed out on a line, so you can throw the reward to shape towards getting the jump. He was actually correct based on your handling with shoulders forward on a parallel line – the jump setup here required more of a ‘get out’ for him as he is learning to read those lines. He got the jump on the 2nd rep and 4th rep and 5th rep and after that, because you handled it by converging into it more and rotating towards him more. So the placement of the jump here was more of a ‘get out’ and so he read it well when handled like a get out (and I bet you can add a verbal get out too!)
By :51 he had the line so had lots of good rehearsals after that 🙂
After the break, adding jump 4 was easy! Yay! And then wrapping him over 4 and sending him back down the line went really well too – don’t forget verbals for the wrap and when sending him back out after the FC wrap at the end.
>>I did have an outcome goal too, wanted to have him understand the cues/handling well enough that there was no checkin/headcheck/question on exit of tunnel. >>
That is also a performance goal because you can control it through your training and cues – his execution is based on your performance of executing the training and cues. And outcome goal is stuff like “WORLD DOMINATION” 🙂 and titles and wins 🙂 all of which we can’t control 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>The heat really is slowing him down. He worked probably less than 10 minutes yesterday and I put him in the pool..>>
I know it has been brutal there recently!!! Unless there were significant poopy moments that you edited out, I thought he ran well considering it was 90 degrees!!! The speed circle elements of jump-tunnel-speed line looked FAST and focused and happy, and when I think back to last summer: there are significant differences in a good way 🙂 YAY!! It is hard to see it when you see him every day, but I see BIG PROGRESS!!! And he didn’t seem to be obsessing about the pool either!
>> I figured this layer would be hard for us
Yes, it is a hard one because the tunnel is just so much more obvious and he needed to shift away from you to find the jump.
Sometimes he would get out past the tunnel but go around the jump, so you can angle it so that the front side of it is really obvious when he gets back there.
The shifting away from you to go past the tunnel is not in his comfort zone when he is sees the cue with the dog-side arm, in terms of being able to convince him to do it repeatedly. So you can try the outside arm! That will give you the BIG connection as your upper body rotates to him and the outside arm points to the jump – plus it is really forceful and will look totally different from the dog-side arm cue to the tunnel. The more forceful you were, the more he would go find the jump, so using the outside arm here might be the cherry on the sundae to get the layering going! I am pretty sure he has seen the outside arm cue as a ‘get out’ in other contexts, so it should be easy to show him.
You would have to have the toy in your dog-side arm or pocket, because it is probably easier to show him the outside arm with the hand empty.
So I know the heat has been miserable, but I think the sign of a good session is when we are talking about handling tweaks, not motivation or focus tweaks!
Nice work here!
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Lots of good work here!! And one bit of info that you might not want to hear:
Your “WHOA!” for the tunnel turn and “GO” for the straight line sound bascially the same, so she is confused and defaulting to the turn. So high priority: making them sound very different or changing one of them.
To make them sound different: make the whoa a lot quieter, a lot lower in pitch, and a lot longer – more like “ohhhhhhhhhhhhh”. And then the Go verbal can be more of an emphasis on the G – louder, shorter, repeated. Go!Go! Go! That will really help her differentiate so she doesn’t rely on motion (which is what was happening here, especially on the Go lines). And do lots of thrown rewards out straight to support the line too. Or change GO to RUN RUN RUN or something.
On the video –
Seq 1:1-2-3 sends looked good!
BC 4-5 looked good!!You might be overhelping on the threadle slice, so she read it as a threadle wrap – you had a big decel and atwo-handed pressure downwards. What do you normally do for threadles – dog side arm, or opposit earm? Either is good, and yu can be more upright with it. No need to use the hands to ask for more collection because a little decel will get it (and threadle slices tend to have collection anyway).
To set up a tighter FC after the backside, you can drive more to the wing then decel and then drive to 7. She was a little wide there when you sent and stepped backwards so she followed that line at :39 and :59. And, getting closer to 6 will also give you more acceleration on the 7-8-9-10 go go go line (or ‘run run run’ line 🙂 ) If you decelerate, you will end up getting a turn on the tunnel exit.
Sequence 1B – nice backside push! I don’t think you need that 2 handed collection cue there either, you can just push and leave. The extra collection would be good if you needed to get the front of the next jump. You had a too much decel at 1:02, so got too much turn.
Seq 3
>>I got stuck on getting the FC 5-6 on course 3. Maybe my course building was a little off?
Part of it was the FC, and yes I think the 6-7 line was a little different in the build so that didn’t make as much sense to her whn you ran it.
The 4-5-6 FC build was good though! So the FC was a matter of timing and position:
You were a little too far across the center of the bar and a little late at 1:21 so she had trouble with the bar there.
You had much better position but the FC was too early at 1:38, pulling her into the gap.1:58 also had better position, btu you were late starting (she was lifting off) ideally you can send her to the jump and start the FC while she is halfway between 4 and 5. It is a hard commitment, so you can definitely reward 5.
When you got her into the 7 tunnel, the ending line looked great! Excellent commitment from her, and you really trusted her, got to position, and nailed the connection and the BC to the spin. YAY!!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Yes, these are hard but I think the girls gave us excellent feedback! Great job staying in motion even when something went wrong. 3 main things I see on these:– you need to use more verbals. Say them early, say them often 🙂 Things go wrong when you get too quiet or only say the verbal once.
– don’t say ‘tunnel’ til they are looking at the line you want
– drive through each line and don’t over-compensate if something went a little sideways on the previous run. Rather than over-compensate, watch the video to see what went wrong and then run it again 🙂Here are specifics:
For Wish:
I agree, baby dog did a great job! Very nice run here! Just a couple of spots to smooth out:You can be more stationary at 2, or hold your threadle cue longer if you do move. You moved too soon at 2, both in terms of moving forward and closing your shoulder. Even though you gave a threadle cue, you moved before she could respond so she ended up on the wrong side of 2 based on the motion. Be sure to hold your threadle cue and position until she is coming in to the correct side of 2.
The blind cross from 4-5 can totally work – she needed you to be one or two steps further around the weaves, s you can send to the #3 tunnel from further away to get there more easily.
The 6-7-8-9-10 section looks great! As she is heading to the entry of 10, you can get outta there so you are ahead and connected to show the line to 11. She sent nicely 12-13 – you can stretch the limits further by sending even more – that will get you further ahead to show 14 (and a “GO” or Jump” verbal before she enters the tunnel will help too! )
The ending line looked lovely!
Charm did really well too and had some great feedback for you!
On the first run:
Charm came in really nicely to the threadle – note how much longer you held the cue for her and you even rotated a little bit. That rotation contributed to why she ended up in the weaves: you ended up moving forward AND said go… so she totally thought you wanted the weaves. So try not to rotate to get the threadle (so your feet will never step towards the tunnel) and also don’t say ‘go’ 🙂On the second run, you stepped away to the tunnel sooner but she still thought it was the weaves – from what I can see, “tunnel” is a forward cue to her so she drives to whatever is in front of her when you say ‘tunnel’ So to help her see the tunnel you want, try to call her name there to get her looking the correct direction, and then give her the tunnel cue.
3rd run (3rd video) – very nice line after 2 but you over-compensated and pulled her into the other side of the tunnel.
So this is a great spot to watch her head, be moving to the tunnel entry you want and calling her several times: when she turns her head to the correct line, then switch to the tunnel verbal.
for the tunnel threadle 4-5: On the first run, she was coming towards you when you turned your shoulder at :18 over 4, but you were quiet and then you opened up, accelerated and said tunnel… so she took the entry that was right in front of her. Do you have a tunnel threadle verbal? They are super useful! And more of a threale cue from the upper body (similar to a jump threadle cue) will help as well.
On the 2nd run, you got the blind in REALLY nicely – you were one or two steps further ahead than you were with Wish and Charm read it perfectly!
She got the bonus jump after the weaves on the first run – you had a small arm cue but no real verbal or you were right near the bonus jump. You were much clearer on the 2nd run!
7-8-9-10 looked really strong on the first run! On the 2nd run, 7-8 was good then you got quiet and looked away, so she came off he line. One theme is emerging: you need more verbals!! Say the early, and keep saying them, and feel free to be loud about it too 🙂
At :33 you hung out at the entry of 10 for too long so she almost didn’t see 11 – be sure to get past the exit so you can show her the line to 11. And getting closer to 11 will help set up the 12-13 send by giving you more room to accelerate and start loud, repeated verbals.
15-16 looked good, then you hung out too close to 15 after the blind, too much connection, so she took 15 again. You overcompensated at 1:19 by pulling away too much, so she had a question about where 17 was. You can do the blind and trust her, connect a little and keep moving 16-17 and she will nail it 🙂
The ending line looked strong!!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
