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Good morning!
Great job problem solving this behavior – it is a HARD behavior especially with those fast little terrier feet. I think shaping it like this (a combo of shaping on the flat and targeting to the board) added clarity. Yay! You are definitely on the right track.
She was targeting nicely to the big board! I am not sure she understood backing further up the incline, and I don’t think it was comfy for her (adds an awkward front end and spine position so she was not offering much there – so you can slide yourself further away so she only has to target to it, not back up to it.That is what you did with the thin plank (slid yourself further away) – but then you did not have your legs in a “V” so she was confused at first. The leg position on is part of the cue for the pups when we shape on the flat here – at 2:5 4you reset your leg position and BOOM! Backing up. Very nice!! And the legs in a V help the pups be straighter too.
So keep going with this progression, I think she is definitely getting it! Maybe try it every other day, or every couple of days, to let latent learning work some magic too 🙂
Great job! And have a Happy New Year!
TracyGood morning!
>>I’ve been there with a wildly distracted dog, who found very little value in agility. I did so many things wrong with her,
Same here! Lots to be learned from those adventures 🙂
>>but the thought of waiting to go into the ring until I’m 100% sure my dog will not be distracted/aroused/stressed means I will never trial. Because I NEVER will know. >>
I agree in that we never know exactly what the dog will do… but with repeated positive experiences and exposures to trial-like distractions in training situations where you can control the distraction level and reinforcement, you will have a really good sense of what she is going to do. The goal it not to be able to 100% guarantee anything, but to be surprised if something goes differently than expected. But if we expect that the dog will have distraction questions, then we need to prepare the dog more before asking for them to work in that environment.
>>And I’d rather pay $20 to go in on leash, tug and enjoy and run out with success (which is ultimately my goal) than invest another year of training feel confident then to only realize I need a different approach. >>
It doesn’t take a year 🙂 And over the course of the training, you will get a really good sense of what she will do so it is highly unlikely hat in a year you will need a different approach. Going in and tugging and playing fun games on leash is a good way to do FEO. I suggest repeated experiences of that with super high success (she will tell you!) before you go to leash off or asking for agility.
>My goal is never to have her run off, I just want predictability if she does. I have lots more work until she goes into the ring to sequence. I know that. I just think she needs a lot of FEO time.>>
FEO is harder than it sounds because there is pressure on the dogs even if we don’t intend it. Before any FEO exposures, show her what will it will be like in a training environment. If she understands what will happen? Easy peasy! If everything is different : environment, things you ask for, etc – things will be much harder.
>>Stacey is a very different dog in the conformation ring than she is outside of it. I had done a ton of foundation and work and she stood outside the ring barking, then went inside the ring and did her job.>>
The two things I see that are different about conformation versus agility are:
– conformation is a more predictable sport, in terms of what will happen, where the people will be, and so on.
– conformation has the dogs on leash and there is reinforcement I(food) n the ring.In those 2 ways, conformation is like flyball! Predictable game, predictable reinforcement. Makes it easier to prepare the dogs for competition. Both have a ton of distractions, which the dog needs to be prepared for as well. It doesn’t mean one game is better than the other, it just means we take different approaches to preparing the dogs 🙂
Agility is wildly unpredictable: the obstacles are always different in their placement, the people are always in different places, different dogs, it is off leash, and there is no food in the ring. All of that makes it harder, plus agility has a wider variety of skills that need to be brought into the ring (with apologies to flyball, which I love: there are not that many skills needed in flyball as compared to agility LOL!) Conformation is similar to flyball in that regard as well.
So with the lack of predictability in agility, paired with our dogs being asked to debut while they are adolescents and at the time of life where they are least able to deal with unpredictable things… making the systematic progression into the ring and teaching her all that goes on there.
I think it is great fun to bring youngsters into the ring for FEO games at the front of the ring, as long as they love to tug and have the tools to ignore the distractions. That would be fun to set up in class, with people around and practicing the tricks and tugging you would be asking for a trial – that will totally add predictability to a relatively unpredictable environment.
Tracy
Good morning!
Maybe winter is over? I would be ok with a short winter and long spring.Serps are generally going really well – she is adding speed and zipping through the in and out – most reps looked great, and she had a few moments of going behind you at :34 and 1:36 and 3:05. You had a good adjustment of toy placement – I think the toy needs to stay there on that exit line (closer to the wing of the jump) so she makes the collection and doesn’t try to go behind you. It can be on that line and a little further from the jump, as long as it is on the tight turn line. If it is further, I am pretty sure she can see it on the easier path behind you. The other thing that can help is if you look at your hand on the serp, which gives her more of a “right here!” Cue by centering your focus on the line in front of you.
Get out: She did will here too!! Two ideas for you:
– you can release release with the out cue because the “ok” means ‘drive towards momma’. If you say “ok” then out, she gets late info on the out, and has a little zig zag moment.– try not to add big distance really quickly here because it creates questions (especially on your right, where she had t turn back to find the prop a couple of times) and the big distance made the “don’t out’ moments too easy LOL! So if the skill is coming from a small space, start by adding a step or two away for each rep (but in a variable way, so things are not just getting progressively harder) so the session ends up in with you maybe double the distance from indoors. That will help keep her question-free 🙂
And she has really great jump. Value on the parallel path game too! But I will bug you to be careful about adding the big distance too quickly here too. She did get the jump but she had zig-zag questions of looking at you then looking for the jump. And with you being that far from the jump, it was harder to get the toy throw on the line ahead – she was having to curl back or lift her head to find it. Like with the get out, make the increase in distance more gradual so she doesn’t ask questions and so it is easy to throw the toy.
I liked your rear cross set up with the fence! She had 100% success on it! And it looks like the only hard part was finding the treat on the last rep? Try one more session like this, then we can try to replace the food holder with the prop (but still on the fence like this) for the left turns. And you can turn it around using the food holder and try some right turn rear crosses too!
Great job here! Happy New Year!
Tracy
Good morning!
Wow, look at her backing up with you standing still! And doing it to an unstable surface – really nice! I think the wobble board was easier for her, maybe because she didn’t have to step up as much? But she was able to do it to the fit bone too. And most of all – she was precise and independent with her back feet, and didn’t need any help other than the cue to start. Yay!!!!The only slightly awkward movement was at :43 when she was starting sideways, so she was trying to back up AND straighten herself out LOL! The other reps where she was already straight were smoother.
This is a good skill to work on in your training rotation – you can add a little more distance, and different object to back up to. If you are going to teach her a 2on, 2off contact, you can have her back into that position on a plank 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
And have a Happy New Year!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well with his barrel here at home!!
>>If I pull the toy away too soon, it seems he will just barrel (haha) into it. But if I’m too slow or late, he’s a bit slower. >>
He definitely loves this game 🙂 Yes, as soon as the toy moved, he was all in toy mode so touched the barrel. I am loving his interest in the toy, so when you are using the toy for this game, you can wait til he is all the way around then bring it out. But when you want to move sooner and do the turn and burn – use food for now, so he can sort out the commitment with possibly a less stimulating motivator 🙂 If he is still smacking the barrel around even with food, we can go to a big cone or something that is harder and moves less.
>>Then when I watched the video I realized Connor was at the wrong place again, but Casper didn’t seem to mind this time.>>
Yes, Casper is definitely more comfortable training and having his brother stare at him LOL!!! And Connor wasn’t barking, that helped too.
Was the resilience game the first thing he did at the barn? If so, click/treat for you – I always start with resilience games in different places, with pups. He was great here and it was a hard environment (note the big slam of something at the end!). So the next step would be to do the pattern game with you standing and tossing the treats.
For the sit – this was a really strong session, especially in the different environment (plus he is INSANELY cute when he pops into the sit). Thank you for the commentary, Julie, she was a good coach! I love that you all work together 🙂
Your mechanics are good – you were super quick with the click/tosses and that really helped him. In the next session, start to vary the time between the sit and the click/toss: it can be instant, it can be a heartbeat, or two heartbeats… very gradually extending duration while keeping him very successful like you had him here.He did really well with the barrel here too – he needed you to be low at first but then he had a BIG lightbulb moment at the end when you were standing. YAY!!!! Note how he did not touch the barrel – perhaps because it is not see-through, he was able to go around it better? Or maybe it was the food or new location. Either way – excellent! So the next barn adventure can include more of the turn and burn on this barrel 🙂
>>okay well he played with Mitre’s real fur toy! So I will be buying him some new real fur tugs.
So maybe that’ll be higher value than just my fleece toys when the environment is more difficult.>>I am excited to hear that he played with Mitre’s fur toy! Puppies often like to play with other pups’ toys… and I agree, you might need a stash of super high value toys that only come out on the road. I have a bunch of great toys that live in the car 😂 because I only use them in new places (and less exciting toys at home).
>>Overall I was really happy with his work at the barn! Then he got to play with Mitre a little bit, and they had a blast>>
I think all of your videos looked great, and the cherry on the sundae is that he gets to play with his friend too 🙂 All of this builds up the barn and training environment into a GREAT FUN place where he is happy and relaxed. And that is exactly what we want 🙂 You are making lovely training choices for him and we can see how happy he is ❤️
Great job! And happy New Year!!
TracyGood morning!
It sounds like she is getting plenty of activity especially lots of good sniffing outlets – that is great! Since you mentioned you felt like she needs more running before training, that is probably the main thing to add: more running 🙂 You can make it a twice -a-day thing, maybe a morning run and evening runabout in the yard? She can run around with toys, that is a great way to end the day and perfect for active puppies 🙂
>>Maybe I should ask about this. I’m planning to take her by some low key outdoor agility trials that are coming up on the calendar. I’ve done this before and now that the season is gearing up again I have those marked on my calendar for outings. Usually I don’t get too near the action and just engage her in toy play with me, walk around at a distance, etc. Should I be doing this or should I be doing something different or in addition when we go?>>
I think that should be fine, and fun. It is a great opportunity for resilience games, especially the pattern game to give her a framework to explore the world around her!
Have fun and happy New Year!
TracyGood morning!
He was pretty happy to be working these skills here, must be recovered from his party weekendHe is doing well with the wraps – I think on that last rep you were fading the sit (or asked for it really quietly) so as you fade the sit, you can add in the backside wrap verbal like you did with the slices here. The backside slices and threadles all looked really good! The next step is to fade the plank 🙂
>>In general am I looking for him to look organized on his take offs and to be efficient in his lines/wraps? His conditioning has definitely improved, but he was pretty good about handling himself over jumps before so it’s harder for me to see changes there.
Yes to efficient, tight lines, and also better collections coming in at speed. Also, you are looking for powerful organization as he takes off and strong hind end use – not pitter patter foot work 🙂 You will actually be able to hear it when working on mats – you will hear the power of the push off. You should also see him being able to keep his balance better because core strength is pumped up now too.
>>How important is the 3 jump zig zag? (Obviously I need to take this one on the road or wait until the snow melts)>>
I think it is important for balance and strengthening 🙂 And for some dogs, we take it to a 5 jump zig zag! He might be able to do the five jumps – it is SO HARD but he has the strength, flexibility and structure to do it. Definitely will be fun to try in the spring!!
>>After fading the organizer, do you bring it back for general conditioning or if you see Jumping issues? And if you do, do you ask for the sit again?>>
Separately from the jumps, I use the plank for tight sit work – that is highly recommended by all of the PT vets and conditioned experts I’ve worked with. So it can be just tight sits on the plank, and then moving in and out of tight sits, etc. And I do cycle through the plank with the sit with jumps as part of the conditioning routine. For example, the dogs are on a bit of a winter break. But then to get them ready for more agility in the spring, I will bring these games back out to help refresh the skills.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Wraps were a good way to get back in the action! Her commitment looked good! I heard you adding ‘bye bye bye’ at the end of the session: is that the front side wrap? You can add in the wrap-right and wrap-left verbals at this stage.
My only suggestion is to be clearer with the toy mechanics. Keep the toy in one hand, and scrunch it up a bit. You were switching hands which delays your cues and gets her looking at your hands, Also, the switching and the size of the toy also inhibit your arms from being used as strong cues, so there were a couple of moments where she was not entirely sure if she should go to the cone or stop at the hand. You can also have the toy in your pocket or around your neck – that allows your hands to move freely. And since this is not a precision reinforcement skill, you can praise then take the toy out when you want to reward.
RCs:
>.I, too, will blame the RC. It’s upsetting my stomach as well!
>>
>>My husband: At least ONE of them should be hard for you. *Me: smirks and flips him off*>>Ha! Hopefully the rear cross is the hard thing and the dog walk is easy LOL!!
Using the prop: leave the prop version of this game alone for now – she doesn’t get it with the prop, you are trying to move even faster, and you are both getting frustrated (she totally reads your energy changes as punishers and deflates, even when you still give her the toy) getting you and her frustrated.
The cookie toss version went better – she did not immediately re-engage after eating the cookie, but that might be fallout from the frustration earlier in the session and her reading your energy changes if it is was not perfect. Do a couple of sessions where you move slowly but get into the correct line of sight, which is when she is successful. When you added more motion, she was struggling so don’t add a lot of motion yet.
Cleanse the palate on this skill, so to speak: play the cookie toss version of it, don’t use the prop for it, and also check out the other ways to train this skill (scroll up to Dec 22).
Get out: The out looks really good! She did a nice job of going to the prop when cued, and NOT going to the prop if you didn’t cue it. Yay! We will be building on this skill in coming weeks, so you can maybe do one more session but it is a low priority for now, since she nailed it.
Parallel path: It would be lovely if we all had a short winter and your snow melted!
She is finding the jump really well. Her line looked best when she was in a stay, coming up the line on your left side. The right side was harder because there was less room – rather than saying ready, you can line her up at your side (nothing wrong with a good ol’ cookie lure for that LOL!) for the next rep so she can get n the parallel path on that side too.Serp game: She is driving in really nicely on these!
You can be closer to the jump, be close enough to touch it with a bent elbow so she turns before she gets to the bump and not after she is over the bump. When she is moving away from the camera (like at :56) you can see that you are pretty far so she gets fully over the bump before starting to turn. Changing your position to be closer will get her bending before the bump.Speaking of lining her up…she did a lot better with the line ups on this session when you tugged her into position or cued a sit without touching her, rather than moving her around with her collar. Whippety ears tell the story: up high when tugging into position, pinned back when you move her by the collar (or coughing from the collar pressure). So, do hands-free line ups so that she is comfortable with that element of it,. You can use a cookie to line her up too!
She was super successful on all reps here – and I can see her argument on any of the errors. She had 2 broken stays, but on both of those I think you were a bit unclear because you were talking the whole time LOL!
Her only other question was at 2:49 when she threadled instead of serped. I can see her argument that it was a threadle, based on her line up and your hand position when you extended the arm and released her. You can reward that moment, she was not just running to the toy – her position and your position did not really show the serp and she did come hit your hand. So when that happens, it is likely that the dog is seeing a different visual , and changing the position will help clear it up.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He was great with the longer tunnel, good boy!So now let’s get specific with the tunnel verbals now, so you can add the verbals and he doesn’t have questions. Start by holding his collar. Then, while holding his collar, start saying your tunnel cue 4 or 5 times… then let go of him and let him find the tunnel. Do that on both sides of you (the send side and the threadle side) so that he is going to the tunnel on the verbal (no need for a go cue here, because he is actually turning to get into the tunnel and when he exits it). With you moving before saying the verbals, he was looking at your motion more than attaching the verbal to the obstacle. So starting with a collar hold can help him build up the verbal and independence, which makes the upcoming games easier 🙂
Stays – He is having trouble figuring out how to earn reinforcement, which seems to be the soure of the struggle. I have some ideas for you to clarify the reinforcement, so he doesn’t get frustrated and stressed about stays. He is failing a lot and getting frustrated which we definitely don’t want to build in. I don’t think the Cato board helps, particularly, because you are trying to maintain criteria on it (which he doesn’t really understand) so it will be easier without it for now.
>>He does offer a sit at doorways, expens,and crate until given his verbal release “break” and I can move away from him in those situations.>>
He probably holds position on those because the reinforcement is super clear : )
A couple of “do”s:
– do make it your overriding goal to click/toss before he moves…. while you are moving. Standing next to him and making direct eye contact is not what I mean – it is more about casual, slow motion away from him but still getting the click/toss in before he moves (on your very first step away for now).– be kind of moving the whole time, without any muscle tension, almost wandering a little bit. Let him offer the sit an you click/toss *as you continue a tiny bit of movement*. So you can click/toss back behind him as soon as his butt hits the ground, while you keep moving away.
– do a lot of quick clicks/tosses behind him as you are moving away (slowly moving away) so he begins to understand that he does not have to move with you because as you move away, the rewards will be tossed back to him or behind him. Be ultra clear about the click being first, then the cookie hand can move.
– do soft eye contact so you can see what he is doing (more on that below) without direct eye contact.
– do have a cookies in your hand on each rep – taking it out of your mouth is confusing for him (more on that below too).
And here are some “don’ts” – there are a couple of things you are doing that are not helping him:
– don’t feed him in position immediately when he sits and you are next to him. That is confusing to him about whether he is finished with the stay or not, and also builds up a lot of value of you being right near him in sits (which contributes to making it harder to move away). You can see it at 4:50 when he gets into the sit, you say “nice” and feed him… and then he gets up and starts sniffing. Then at 5:05 you, said “nice” and your hand went to your mouth, so he moved there too, maybe that was a release because the reward was coming? So no more cookies in mouth because he is locking onto seeing your face and when your face turns or your hand goes to your face… he is confused about whether the reward is coming or not.
– don’t talk to him *during* the stay for now, because he is struggling with what the verbals mean – which one is the actual marker for reinforcement, and which is just praise/keep going. After he offers the sit, be silent til you click/toss the treat, then you can praise him as you set up for the next rep.
– as you are slowly moving the whole time, resist the temptation to stand still and look at him intently. When you did that, it was building up a lot of anticipation & pressure and he moved a lot. You had a lot of very direct eye contact and muscle tension/body pressure, which can build up too much anticipation and also looks like maybe you wanted him to offer other behavior.
>> If I move one foot, good. When I move the second foot to complete the step away, he moves.>>
Yes, because there was so much anticipation in those moments, with muscle tension and eye contact, that it was almost a ready….set…..go! game 🙂
So, join #TeamFakeChill and use soft eye contact (just enough looking at him to see what he is doing, and look at his feet and not his eye). And relax your body movements so you are moving slowly but naturally – if you have muscle tension, it will not help him relax and hold position. So you can be stationary til he sits, then *don’t* reward the sit, you can casually take one step away and click/toss for immediately.I dug up a baby Contraband video of this, I think it was his very first session. The first minute was just quick click/tosses for offering sits and learnng about cold grass 🙂 Then at :59, I start adding movement the whole time (note how I don’t stand still and look directly at him at any point while he is in the ‘stay’. I look at him and stand still til he offers, then I move away as the next part of the game):
And here is Ramen’s version of it (must be the 2nd or 3rd session because I am using the sit verbal). Note the casual motion, nothing formal looking. I stand still til he offers then I add causal motion and lots of quick clicks/tosses:
The main thing is to teach the concept by making it all less formal and more about shaping the sit and offered stay while you meander about.
Let me know if that makes sense! I am looking forward to seeing you next week!
TracyI am glad she is feeling better! That is a relief. Can we agree to just blame rear crosses for all the issues? Stupid rear crosses. Try the rocking horse games with a toy, she will like those 🙂
T
Hi!
>>I think Hola needs some sort of energy release or decompression before we do any homework exercises. I think she has pent up energy and needs to release that before she can settle down a bit with more focus required to do an exercise. >>
It is possible that she needs more running around/decompression/sniffaris in daily life and not just before training. What is her normal daily/routine of getting to run run run, play, sniff, hike, swim, etc?
>>I’m having some dyslexia on which way to turn myself when doing a send to blind around the barrel.>>
You can slow yourself down a bit to get back in the groove! FC = towards her. BC = away from her. If you slow down, you will have time to think those as you do them 🙂
The any toy game looked good! Rather than distract her with the moving treats, you can give her one 🙂 then go back to the tugging 🙂 The treats are not intended to be distractions, but rather they are there to help the pups go back and forth from treats to toys 🙂 When you moved them and put them on the floor but didn’t give her one, she was like “WHAT THE HECK” lol!!! She got back to the tugging but I think you will get more value for the game if you try to alternate treats & toys rather than use the food as a distractor.
>>In the interim apparently all these huge disgusting Florida beetles took residence all around my tunnel bags and tunnel in the shed! O.M.G. it was a nightmare…and beetle poop was everywhere!>>
OMG! I would have burned the tunnel and switched to a new sport LOL!!
>>It didn’t take too long for her to go through to the MM.
Yes! She did well! I think having the first part of the tunnel (past the first tunnel back) all scrunched down was really hard for her, so you can either stretch it more or add a bag to support it so it is easier to get through.
>> I decided to bring out a toy and found that to be very hard for her because she had to make the choice to go away from me while I had the toy in my hand.
I think you were probably just too far from the tunnel – she moved away from the toy easily and wasn’t pummeling you for it, but didn’t know where to look because you were pretty far from the entry. Plus, with the MM still there, she didn’t know where to look. So start closer to the tunnel, almost touching it, and you can get the toy visible through the other end as soon as she pokes her head into it. When using the toy, don’t have the MM also there because it was a little confusing about what to look for as the reward,
>> What do you advise next steps and what do I need to change? Keep working the tunnel until it’s extended longer? Mostly use the MM or should I use the toy, too?>>
I would keep stretching the tunnel til it is pretty straight and extended. Stay close to it for now, and do maybe one more shaping session. Then you can move to the next step, where you start with your hand in her collar and begin to cue it. You can alternate the MM and the toy, but if the toy is the reward, move the MM out of the picture. Ideally, you can throw the toy so she drives straight out of the tunnel (and the MM can be 5 or 6 feet away or even further too!)
Her stay is looking good! She holds the sit and down nicely! I think she doesn’t really believe you when you say “ready” as you lead out LOL! You fake her out a lot – run then stop then run then stop, or swing the toy… so she starts to look around (also note the tail droop) and loses her engagement level a bit. You can see it at 1:37-1:44 – she was looking around until you stopped for a longer amount of time, then she re-engaged. So to keep her engaged as you lead out, do fewer fake outs LOL! That way she can stay ‘on edge’ and be ready to go when you release 🙂
>> If I make the toy go back and forth in a figure 8 she’s not as able to do it so much, which may be what you have seen before other than the killing/thrashing behavior.>>
Ah yes, that might be why I haven’t seen the thrashing. Some thrashing is fine – but also she is likely to thrash/spin less if she can have big runabouts outside of training.
>> I think I’m stuck in weeks 3/4. I value your feedback on the exercises which is why feeling this way.
Go ahead and jump into the week 5 games – you wil find you are further along than you think! There is no need to get each game perfect before moving on. Get it to the ‘pretty good’ stage of a couple of sessions, then move to the next set of games. They build on each other so it is ok to move on after a couple of sessions.
>> I’m also training Hola in nosework and we’re starting another obedience class on Monday. Maybe I’m overextending both of us. >>
Going back to the beginning of your post – if you are seeing that she needs an energy release before training, it is possible she is getting too much ‘work’ and not enough running around time where she doesn’t do anything formal.
>> I don’t want to do all the things every day, so it’s taking longer.
That is normal, and also it is fine for it to take longer! This class will generally run a week or two ahead of what people can do at this time of year, and that is fine because we have a ton of time to finish it through February.
>>I do think taking the break that we just had was good for both of us, though.
Yes, a break is always a good thing – and it allows latent learning to work its magic 🙂 A puppy should do *something* every day, but that something does not need to be formal training. Trying to balance training for 3 sports is HARD but if you take your time, you will get it all done and the results will be awesome 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Ah, this is a good topic of discussion!!
>>I have a question about decompression.
What you describe below is not decompression – it is arousal management and distraction training. Decompression doesn’t happen in the ring and it is about physiological regulation, not learning (especially not operant learning). But this is still a really important topic!
>>She said he dog was struggling with people in the ring and I thought it was just a brilliant idea. Her dog was not stressed by people, but excited by them.>>
Well……. the dog is stressed. It might have looked like excitement in terms of body language, but the dog was stressed by not understanding how to earn reinforcement in that scenario, in terms of doing agility with all of the people around and no reinforcement in the ring that was available from the handler. The dog is stressed in the same way as a dog that is having zoomies is stressed: it might look like it is having fun, but it is not really having fun. There is a Golden here in the mid-Atlantic area that is very ring-stressed, and it manifests as ULTRA EXCITED TO SEE PEOPLE. Having been on the receiving end of his attention, he is pretty stressed and a bit frantic.
My opinion is that these dogs should not yet be in the trial ring and their questions should be worked out in training and then with a toy in FEO/NFC runs… but that is a wildly unpopular opinion LOL!!
>>I know this will be something I need to work through with Stacey. I have entered her strictly to start working through this in a trial environment.>>
The first step before putting this into a trial environment is to work the skill in a class environment where you have complete control of the distraction level (and you can use food as well). I highly recommend the pattern game where she learns to ignore distractions and manage her arousal.
If you think there is *any* chance that she will leave you in the ring, the FEO should be on leash at first and with a toy in your hand, so you can play play play and do tricks in that environment. Then over the course of FEO runs, drop the leash, then take the leash off…. etc. All with a highly visible and highly valuable toy, so you can reinforce behavior you like as well as create a positive conditioned emotional response to being in the ring, without any chance of error or unpredictable distractions.>>but I think this might be the way to go. With judges & bar setters. I would practice ahead of time so she really understand the go visit cue.>>
I agree that a ‘go visit’ cue is great! But I would not use it in the trial ring – mainly because it is too hard to control the distractions and the access to reinforcement (especially if you don’t have reinforcement in the form of a tug toy). Dogs anticipate reinforcement in the early stages – so she is likely to have an error and go visit. The visiting might also be a stress response to the environment, or to a low rate of reinforcement, or to the adolescent inability to self-regulate. Plus, ring crew people and judges don’t act normally when a dog visits: they get stiff or turn away, which is weird AF and can create some conflict. It is better to work the arousal regulation and distractions in training, to the point where she is perfectly happy doing agility with a judge and people in the ring and she doesn’t feel the need to visit them. It likely means a slower entry to competition, but it also means a more successful start to competition because if she understands not to visit, then you can run courses for real! It just seems like a slippery slope to try to get the ‘go visit’ on stimulus control to the point where she isn’t in a state of stress trying to ignore the potential reinforcement she is running past all the time: she will be working in a divided or selected attentional state, rather than in the sustained state we need in the agility ring.
>>I don’t really stick to the CU concept of sacred space because where I practice is also a place they can run.>>
I don’t know the CU terminology of sacred space. I don’t mind if my dogs run around the training field when they have been released to run around it… but in all fairness, that only happens after they understand the impulse control required to also work in that environment with sustained attention (at least for very short bursts). Otherwise, things can get muddy and they end up having errors, which causes frustration/stress for both handlers and dogs.
To make reinforcement predictable in a trial ring, I teach the dogs some specific ways to earn reinforcement, culminating in how to run the full course to earn the reinforcement that is outside the ring – we actually start that game next week here!! And because dogs are so brilliant with context, they learn that in a trial, the most predictable way to earn reinforcement is to run the course (reinforcement never comes from the judge or ring crew, which is actually more black-and-white to the dog).
>> I DO stick with the idea that I am ending the training session, so there is a difference between playing with the momma and doing whatever your dog self desires.>>
Yes, in training – but because dogs learn context so well, it helps to teach them that the ‘do your thing’ cues never happen in a trial ring. Same as they can pee on the grass outside the ring, but they don’t pee on the grass inside the ring.
>>I just feel like it I KNOW she is going to go to a person on course, I’d rather cue that after an obstacle or two or some tugging and have her return based on a pattern rather than having her brain explode and make that choice for herself.>>
My philosophy is different: I don’t want the dogs running agility if there is a chance of brain explosion or a distraction that is hard enough that the dog might leave me. That seems to set the dog up for failure, especially in the adolescent stage where they struggle with bouncing back and self-regulation (studies show us that adolescent dogs take twice as long to return to baseline as adult dogs – lordy!). A dog that is not prepared to trial is going to have stress struggles, and my guess is that the dog that you saw who was struggling in the ring was not fully prepared to trial so didn’t know how to relax and ignore the people, in favor of doing agility.
So if I put my adolescent dog in the trial ring, it is only with a plan for ultra success on super simple stuff (like tricks and play and maybe recalls), but no real agility in the trial ring until they are post-adolescent (2-ish), they are really comfy in the trial environment and ring (not looking at distractions or potentially have brain explosions), and they have had repeated successful exposures to trial-like conditions in training, including being able to run a novice course with full engagement and no rewards in the ring (or in my hands or pockets).
>> have her return based on a pattern rather than having her brain explode and make that choice for herself.>>
I am not really a full pattern game expert, but I don’t think that is what the pattern people would call a pattern LOL! A pattern is highly predictable and almost rhythmic, where the dog actually is making a lot of choices for themself. The ‘go visit’ is more of a cued behavior – it does have merit and I definitely think all dogs should have it, but I think preparing her for the agility ring should be more about getting that optimal state of arousal and engagement so the distractions fade into the background (rather than making the distractions a focal point in the ring by sometimes cuing her to go to them).
Let me know if that makes sense and what you think 🙂
TracyHi!
>.I used a lotus ball toy, but didn’t need the treats inside. She was happy with just the toy. I don’t thnk she cared where I was at all once the toy was introduced.>>
Well, that certainly made it easy LOL! She looked great! She is looking for the toy a bit but that will go away when we build on this. The only suggestion is to make sure you are moving the whole time, so she sees your motion get built into the acceleration. You can use a stay or a mat if you need to get a head start to be able to stay a little ahead, or to get lateral 🙂
On the strike a pose video:
The mat TOTALLY helped!!
>>. I usually don’t step over the jump when I leave them at the startline but I didn’t want to make the stay too advanced. I hope that is ok. >>
Yes, it got you there really fast and that is good because she is ready to go as soon as you get into position. You can also use that opportunity to throw a reward back to her for staying on the mat when you get into position, so she doesn’t anticipate the release.
She figured out a loop for herself -after the rep at :54, she got the reward and sent herself back to the mat for the next rep (I don’t think you cued it) – brilliant! LOL!!
And your position on the jump looked good – and her turns looked great! She did well with both the food and toy reward here. And by the end, she was really nailing the in-and-out concept, which is exactly what we want. We will be building on this soon!
She also did great with the blind crosses! You were not too slow LOL!! The mat definitely helped you get a head start, and I think your timing and connection were both really good. If you want to make sure your connection is great, try it without a toy – just use cookies. That way you need to rely on the eye contact after the blind to get the side change done!
And the drive to decel looked great. She is driving into the decel & pivot really well! My favorite was the rep at approc 1:07, were you were VERY clear with the transition: move fast, big decel, then pivot. She really was able to set up a lovely collection on that. Yay!
>>Since we were behind, do you see any “holes” that we need to work on next? I think I need to revisit countermotion.>>
You don’t have any holes at all! We can pumped up the barrel commitment and countermotion on the barrels (like doing the turn and burn to the point where you can FC and run away before she even arrives at the barrel, and working the sideways and backwards sends to the barrel. All of that will set you up really nicely for the upcoming games too!
And definitely take a look at the resilience games – they are not as fancy as the agility skills games, but they are so helpful for getting focus and teaching the pups to recover from the unexpected (as my pups did when they were both chased by another dog at separate times today during class – one grabbed my boy as he was doing his turn! My dogs were more resilient about it than I was LOL!)
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
I love watching baby dogs work on moving stuff like this! She was perfectly happy to put her front feet on, no problem. She was putting her back feet on, but that was mainly because the food was high enough in value to be a powerful motivator (and it was less likely that she was comfortable doing it). She didn’t appear to have any trouble with the noise, I think she was less comfy with the movement (all that shaking while she was on it, and she had to compress herself a little, so she was not putting a lot of weight in her rear).
So, using that powerful motivator (yum yum!) we can help her in a couple of ways:
Deflate the bone to maybe half of the inflation here, so it is more stable and she can balance herself better (she is too young to have the core strength yet for a fully inflated bone)Or, use 2 bones or a bone and a couple of discs, so she has a bigger playing field to spread herself out a little more – that can help her feel more secure and put more weight in her rear.
To start, I would do both: less inflation and bigger field 🙂 the plus of a bigger field is you can get more surfaces and textures involved!
>> I did do the sessions with tugging, but I trimmed that part out. (I think I’m tugging for too long, frequently. Any suggestion on how low a tug session should be…that’s a pre- or post- session for a lesson?)>>
When you feel you are tugging for too long, is she letting go of the toy, or getting tired? You can try counting to 5 in your head then ending the session. And at her age, you might need to stick to super soft flat toys, in case teething is playing a role.
Or is she disengaging from the tugging when she sees the thing to shape, or the cookies come out? You can end the tugging before the shaping object comes out, or move away from it to get more tugging.
Feel free to leave the tugging in the video, so we can see what she is doing and better answer your question.
Great job here!
Tracy
