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Hi!
> So, he’s super interesting to me and does still get very work focused at times and in “work” settings. The past few days I’m letting him watch Rip train in the house and outside using toys instead of food so he can see what that looks like. He seems to be starting to see that you can work for toy play.>
It is entirely possible that ‘work’ is the highest value reinforcement right now. That would not be surprising on many levels 🙂 Because of the needs of agility training, we can balace that into convincing him that things like coming in to line or put his hand in your collar are also ‘work’, that leads to more ‘work’ LOL! And as the value pendulum shifts as he grows, we can take forays into eating food as ‘work’ or tugging in certain environments as ‘work’. I don’t mean that in a bad way – it is more about him loving the work and the movement, so we can use something like ‘eating the treat’ as the behavior we want and the reinforcement is… more work! Because he loves the work. Then it all evens out where it is ALL reinforcing in a nice balance. Every drivey herdy dog at some learns that eating or tugging are a fun bit of ‘work’, rather than just obstacles. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
>Then knowing he’s not super hungry anymore we’re doing some training for just the toy with Vibe. We’re getting there, he just has a very interesting mind and personality.>
Great! I prefer to train when pups are NOT super hungry! And yes to the interesting mind & personality. He sure does!!! That is why I love training different breeds: we learn so much about the breed and the individual.
>This morning we did a super short strike a pose for toy only (so no cookie tosses to help with the start yet).>
The hand target element looks strong! He was really into the toy as well 🙂 You might need to keep your hand lower to maintain good hits (although we do fade out the actually hitting of the hand pretty quickly).
A non-cookie toss way to start that might also be super fun for him: he loves his send to cot behavior, right? You can set up a behavior sequence: tug tug tug then send to cot, release to hand target, reward with toy, send to cot, and so on. That gives us the benefit of being able to have different start positions, and that can actually pump up the value of rewarding with a toy – because it is followed by work (cot) and more work (hand target). That could be super fun!
> He’s also in a baby agility class with Nancy Gyes that’s only happened 3 times due to the weather and our travel. We actually did a tunnel exercise there like you have in the content this week so sharing that here too. >
Very fun!! Is that Jessica with Bokeh? She is in MaxPup 2 Small world! He did great, of course 🙂 And we can see his love of work here – the moment the leash comes off, he heads to the work 🙂 Is that a bad thng? Nope! Not at all. But we can shift that to when the leash comes off, he stays with you (leash off, immediate cookies/toy, or leash off and you run the other way so he has fun chasing you). He is not disengaging or getting caught in the environment, we just want to make you the priority in the environment. That way he will also drive back to you in the in-between moments before the cues. The reasoning is two-fold: it will keep things in balance when he gets even more value for obstacles 🙂 and it will help keep him coming in for resets or starting next to you when things get more exciting with movement, especially if something has gone sideways 🙂 It is all a balance game so we watch for the little things at this stage to keep them in balance.
Great job!!
Tracy
Hi!
Lap turns are looking good, the only thing you can add is consistently stepping back with the leg like you did at :22: when your hand moves back, the leg steps back with it. That will set the best turns.
After the lap turns, you were doing threadle wrap foundations where she did a complete circle while you kept moving forward. Those went well! You can decelerate while you are cueing her to turn because that makes it easier for her to follow your hands. When you were moving forward, I think turning her away in a circle worked best when you used your dog-side arm and opposite arm together, not your opposite arm by itself because that was harder to coordinate.
At 1:10, you disconnected and it looked like you were starting a blind, which is why she started to change sides. Then she wasn’t sure and tried to offer a line up 🤣😂 My 2 year old dog is obsessed with lineups because he just started competing, so I feel your pain here LOL!!
The tandem turn is when you both turn and go the new direction (back towards where you started here) – you did one at 1:13 and it looked great!
We will be doing more with threadle wrap foundations coming up soon, and you can add in more tandem turns where you both turn.
Nice work!
Tracy
Yay! She did great here!! No lineups 🙂 and great targeting! You will be able to relax your foot position as we build up the game but for now, feet-together for the win! You can move to the next steps of strike a pose, where you can have a toy as the reward instead of a cookie. And you can also start getting the reward to the ground – an empty food bowl (that you drop the cookie into) or a toy on the ground.
>Also, thank you for examples of what games represent what>
I try to put it in context so you all aren’t think it is a just a series of weird dance moves hahahaha!
Nice work 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Tugging on your leg went well! You can add in tugging on your leg, then letting him have it as you back up and encourage him to bring the toy to you. You can do it in an enclosed space, so he can’t run off with the toy 🙂Strike a pose is off to a great start! He was happy to target the hand then go ot the cookie reward. He is ready for hte next step where he starts in a stay or you can use a cookie throw start, then he drives back to the target hand. Then you can see if can get the reward down to the ground, in the form of an empty food bowl that you drop the treats into.
Nice work!!
TracyHi!
>So far I am thinking I will stick with AKC. I never did premier with Frisco and I am half sorry I didn’t.>
Sounds good! Premier course design has improved, so you might consider it. But AKC regular & premier gives us a good basis to pick & choose verbals!
>The fact that we got to PACH 4 and almost 5 was a pleasant surprise. Brighton and I have had such ups and down with his being sick then rehab for his back I have only recently thought about premier again. Brain camp exercises have helped but he is still working through his ring stress. I am thinking some of it might have been pain related now.>
It definitely might have been pain-related… dogs will keep working through pain but we often do see stress behavior showing up.
>Dublin is a very different dog from my other dogs so far but I have not decided my goals for him. MACH or PACH would be nice and if he likes it I might even think of Grand with him.>
I think choosing goals for now is best for what type of contact behavior you want to train, getting him engaged in different places, etc. The titles are fun to think about but they will actually be easy to attain when all the pieces of the training goals come together 🙂
> Would it be hard to change my dig dig turn towards me verbal later? I started Dig dig with Brighton so it’s been almost 7 years of memory. Maybe I try to add directional wraps and keep my backside “around” for now? Then we expand as we go?>
Yes – you can expand and change as you go. For AKC regular and Premier, I think the best choices are wrap-towards-me, wrap-away-from me, and around for backside slice – and one for backside wrap, because you will see that in AKC regular (versus the backside slice). But also important for AKC are the soft turn directions (more coming on that soon!) and the tunnel threadle verbal.
Then, depending on how course design evolves in the next couple of years, you can add anything needed 🙂
Today I got the baby tunnel out. We have done a little with it and the bowls. He would go back and forth between the two bowls like a movement puzzle. This was 1st time with the treat and train.
He was SO CUTE standing in the tunnel at the beginning! And he was happy to go through it to the MM. Because this went so well, you can move past the offering stage
> Ok I did read the lesson and do realize I went too long. He just seemed to be having fun and I goofed.>
You can set a timer to maybe 2 minutes – then assess if you liked the session. If you liked it – you can take a break then come back and do more, but adding more challenges. Or, you can move to someting else so it doesn’t get too reptitive or he goes on autopilot. You added the tunnel verbal about 4 minutes into the session, which is good because it helped stopped his back and forth into the tunel without being cued. And he was also happy to turn away from you to get into it. Super! You can also remove the MM and use a toy as the reward.
.We also worked strike a pose with the toy in hand then on ground. I hope I did this right. It isn’t the best video since it zoomed in and cut my head off 😂>
It was great! We didn’t need to see your face to know the mechanics were really good 🙂 I could tell by your shoulder position.
I am also really excited that he was able to go from the cookie toss to the tug reward, even wihtout needing to make the tug crazy exciting.Great job making the hand target REALLY obvious on the 2nd rep with the toy on the ground – that toy is exciting so pumping up the excitement of the target/serp hand certainly drew him to the serp hand. Yay!
Letting him see you drop the toy (like at 9:57) might have focused him on it too much, so you can put it down then send him away to the start cookie so toy movement is not catching his attention as he turns back to you.
Great job here!! The camera at the end was hilarious: it kepy doing close ups on your target hand LOL!!!!
Tracy
Hi!
His stays are looking lovely!! And he held them really well, even with the ready ready excitement:) I think the only 2 Bloopers were when he thought the release was happening but it didn’t. Oops! No worries.So keep building it up – you can mix in more duration in the form of moving away further, as well as a little quiet praise because you release or throw a reward back.
And since he is beginning to understand the value of jumps and tunnels, you can add in stays in front of them (releasing forward or throwing a reward back).Great job here!
TracyGood morning! He did great with these, so we can proceed to the next steps on them:
For the tunnel game, we can add 2 things:
– more verbal independence by holding him when he is next to you, saying the tunnel verbal while he is next to you, then letting go after he has heard it a few times. That should get him going to it without needing physical cues as much (which will lead to more distance when you have more room).
– you can hold him so he is between you and the tunnel, meaning he has to turn away to get into the tunnel. Start pretty near the entry at first so it is easy 🙂 then you can get further and further away if he understands it. That is the foundation for the tunnel threadle cue.
For the lap turn, where you are facing him and turning him away: you can go to the advanced level, where the prop is present. The lap turn draws him past it, then turns him away to move to it.
For the tandem turns: you can add in facing away from him as if moving on the parallel line, then turning him away so you both turn to the new direction. You were facing him on these so having you face forward will possibly make it a little more challenging.
If he finds it easy 😀 you can move to the advanced level with the prop too.Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>The first thing I think is that I wasn’t very successful with this set of exercises.>
I disagree! This is all about sorting out the needs of each dog, and we got a ton of good info (along with a lot of beautiful turns).
> “and I was looking for a strategy that covers him not giving me 100% of his brain.>
Environment and arousal is where the brain loses bandwidth, so you can crank that up in a couple of ways:
– running him through the tunnel, back and forth 5 or 6 times in a row
– turning on barking dog noises or loud music or agility trial sounds – it is amazing how distracted dogs can get him home base when there is a recording of someone yelling TUNNEL TUNNEL TUNNEL
– play with his favorite toy then set it off to the side (depending on what you want to train in the moment.
>When he is aroused, what I have right now is a dog who will take the line and stay on it regardless of additional handling. Or he will need handling so early that it can pull him off the line if he happens to be clued in.>
Processing delays! Arousal draws bandwidth, so his brain is slower to register info and that makes responding to it even slower… so he might process a turn cue after he has exited the off course tunnel, and there is exactly zero wiggle room to be even a little late. Does that sound like what he is doing?
>In this case, the toy was serving both as a distraction and reinforcement. >
I think for Casper, he is more of an all-or-nothing learner, meaning that distraction and reinforcement actually keeps the distraction level high because the reinforcement is always possibly available (in his view, not in your intent).
I think more of a yes-no approach will work better: the reward from turn cues is always back towards you (yes) and it is never ever (no) available on the straight line ahead (nope!) Having it serve as both reward and distraction keeps a ‘maybe’ in play and I think that is why you aren’t seeing improvement as fast as you’d like.
>I often train with a toy lying around and release him to it as a reward. I take it you are not a fan of that approach.>
It is entirely dependent on the individual dog, for some dogs it is super clarifying! For others, it is too grey and not black and white enough. Casper seems to need more black and white.
>Even toys on his line are not available unless I release him to get them.>
Yes, but he still goes towards them a lot and doesn’t truly ignore them. So while he might not always grab the reward, the possibility exists so he is focusing some energy on that.
>my takeaway is that I am late in getting the information to Casper.>
Sometimes, but the there were also really good reps! And personally, I would like all of us to have the wiggle room of being able to be a little late and still get a good response, so I think a black and white approach to reinforcement will help him!
>The backside with brake arm – Now your dogs…they both do lovely round circles while Casper’s are more oval-shaped.>
I think there were a couple of factors in play – my brake arm was maybe a stride earlier and a little more “in yer face” to the big dog 🙂
Also, mine had seen it before so knew what to do while Casper was seeing it for the first time. Letting him see it more and very strongly will let him slow down into collection, especially on mats, while you move away to give him room on the landing spot. Starting it at a lower jump height will let him sort out the mechanics before raising the bars again.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>It felt good in the moment and his turns looked good>
Yes! Super lovely, especially on the reps from 1:17 to the end. Even the one you noted as late was still a really nice turn!
> but I feel like I’m still a bit late for what he really needs from me to actually shorten his stride on approach and set himself up for a nice tight turn without last minute adjustments that seem more likely to bring a barn down at full height.>
Onwards to the sequences! These warm up drills are more about mechanics and not about timing. The sequences will gather feedback on timing.
In general, the info will need to start no later than exit of a tunnel if that is the obstacle before the wrap (or while he is in the air (if that is the previous obstacle). The question is: what info, exactly? For him, I’m guessing rather verbal and decel then brake arm, all before he reaches the halfway point – but the rotation can be later. Hitting the brakes too hard might pull him off the jump, but that is something to play with on the sequences!
And we can overlay the different turns to look at what is fastest – tightest is not always fastest!Keep me posted! Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>My ancient original Manners Minder and my slightly less ancient Treat N Train both have broken remotes. So, while I wait for Amazon to deliver a programmable key fob replacement we used a toy and then thrown treats. We’ll circle back when the remotes arrive.>
No rush on adding the MM or TnT (I always call it the wrong thing lol) – this tunnel game or even strike a pose are good ways to introduce it but it is not necessary 🙂
Strike a pose at the beginning was high energy and super fun! You can see if you can use a start cookie to change his angle of approach:
Coming from the toy is a challenging angle (he did great), and you can use a cookie to get him to approach from a 90 degree angle (facing you) and also from the side closer to the target hand. That side might actually be the hardest, because it would be easy to bypass the serp hand and head directly to the reward 🙂The tunnel session went well too, he definitely seems to think tunnels are fun 🙂
It was interesting that he didn’t want the toy on that first rep: too stationary? Expectation of food? I’m curious to know what he would do if you threw it as the reward.
The threadle side entries were also really good, you can work further and further back along the length of the tunnel to add more challenge.
He was doing a bit of “send me in, coach!” by staying out on the line until you cued the tunnel again 🙂
You can add in a lineup before each tunnel rep, partially to keep him working tight to you when asked to start the next rep, and partially so you can be super clean with the mechanics: choosing exactly where you want him to start, and holding him so he can hear the verbal before moving. Those will speed the learning and also come in really handy when the tunnel games get more challenging.Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I am still having difficulty doing any posting from my phone. I get an error and it won’t load the page regardless of what browser I use. I am able to post from my computer.>
Sorry to hear it is being a pain! Is it an iPhone? There was a recent update that is causing trouble with YouTube, even if you didn’t directly update the phone (something that Apple did) It takes a few days to settle back to normal (plus I cleared the history etc on my Mac and the miscommunication with YouTube went away).
Let me know if it is not an iPhone, and send a screenshot of it so I can pass it along to tech – the site all works well on my Android phone and PC, probably because they are Google-powered and Google owns YouTube 😆
The parallel path went great – she was locked onto the jump and appeared to be having a grand time 🙂 Next step: you are moving parallel to her path the whole time. This includes getting more and more laterally away from her line as well as starting with her so she drives ahead. Standing still at the wing should cue a collection, so keeping you in motion will support the extension.
Strike a pose also went great! She was driving into the serp hand beautifully and your reward placement was spot on!
You can move to the next steps, such as using a toy as the reward, and getting the reward to the ground (like an empty food bowl that you can drop a treat into)You can also use a stay, which will also allow you to start at different angles to challenge her approach to the jump.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Disconnected at :36 and 33:21 to throw so he did not know where to be when he exited the tunnel on the first rep. Wait to throw until you see him look at the jump: that will make sure he is committing to it and it will also make sure you are connected.
When you were connected at 2:07, for example: perfect!
Moving faster also seemed to be no problem – when you were moving straight, he was reading the line consistently well. When you were stepping to the side as he was on the way to the tunnel or when he exited (to get more lateral distance probably) he actually read that and changed his line! So you can set your line before sending him to the start wing so you can run on a straight line and not show any pulling away.
Good job on the rear crosses! Having to do them in a smaller space means the cues have to be clear and timely 🙂 You were able to get timely cues going – the first one on each side was late but then you put more pressure on the RC line and did it sooner, so he found the RCs in both directions, even jumping into the wall. YAY!!! I grabbed screenshots of the ones that were late versus the ones that were timely – note how if he is a stride from the takeoff spot there and you are still facing pretty straight he goes to the original direction, as opposed to the successful reps where you were putting more pressure on the line before he got to a stride before takeoff so he read the RCs. And your toy throws helped too!
Because RCs are hard and relatively new to him, he is still checking in a little by looking at you but that will go away when he has more experience and you have more room to run 🙂
Here is the link to the screenshots:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1VXxGSTcguVGRlIYZDvFjCUKuGQ4sy3J4wja6rFSmkvA/edit?usp=sharing>There is no agility place closer than 90 minutes for me to rent. And that one is dirt. He has been on the turf at United Dog once.>
When the weather is more reliable, maybe you have agility folks you can meet to share a rental or lesson with? I wish you lived closer, I would totally share rentals! Does he still get to share time with Benni at lessons with Jess? He is at the age where we do want to take his skills on the road but the weather has NOT been helping!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Wraps and blind crosses went fairly well. >
Yes! Those looked really strong and well-connected! Super!
>Challenge for us was sending out to the top of the diamond and mini challenges with tunnel entrances.>
For some of her wing commitment questions, that was partially disconnection (looking ahead instead of at her) and partially the big distance between the obstacles – you might have feeling the pressure to take off to the next line, which was pulling her off.
>For the tunnel bloopers I think it’s because I’m racing to the tunnel entrance and then stopping rather than connecting and letting her commit to it before I peel off. >
Yes – and the tunnel entry is actually a little offset from the line so you might need to actually push her back to it. Or you can curve it a little more so it is a straight line to the entry.
I grabbed a couple of screenshots so you can see those moments:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K0f-Ioys-bN6eF4iQ_XROOadveopWzY96v0DCMI1VlA/edit?usp=sharing
>Seems like maybe I need to slow down a bit on all of these so that she is committing rather than me trying to take her places – does that make sense?>
Yes, makes total sense! You also moved the distances in closer which will really help too, because you won’t have to cover as much ground as while also maintaining all the connection a baby dog needs.
You can play with running without arms showing the line 🙂 Either pump your arms like a runner or keep one hand pointed to her nose the whole time. That will help with connection.
Another thing to play with it fewer, quieter verbals. When she has a question, the verbals get louder and more urgent – I read them as you giving the cues urgently. She might read them as getting yelled at, which is why she was stopping a bit when she had a question. It might have been too similar to the “momma is mad” voice LOL 😂 so try being really quiet and see how it goes!
>We started with food, which works OK. She’s not nearly as engaged as with the ball. >
The ball is clearly the top of the reward hierarchy 🙂
>I tried the two ball approach, limited success, she seemed happy to leave the one and play with the one I had, but unless I was able to pick it up (without her grabbing it first) it became a distraction on the field. >
That will be something we can work through – she did run past some no the ground on the video!
It is possible we need to apply the 2 (or 3) ball approach with a short session of an easier game. That way you can focus more on using the ball rewards with simple behavior that she will have no questions about. The smiley face game might be perfect for that!
>I also used food tosses to get it, but she caught on to that pretty quickly. Once it became a game of keep away we called it quits. >
Was that towards the end of the diamond video? That might have had more to do with the challenges in the diamond sequences and some frustration from that – she didn’t want to bring it back. That is why I suggest an easier game for now to incorporate the balls.
You can also just play games with the balls in the house where she starts to see how to earn the next ball, how to leave the first ball (pr bring it back) and how to eat food in between. That can give you both a way to sort out mechanics on the balls without also trying to get handling correct.
Nice work here! Let me know how it goes today!
Tracy
Hi!
The setup with the grid looked really good here with 2 bumps then the jump!
> Seems like it went well, including when I slowed down the video. Looks like low head and arched back. >
I agree! And good for you for slowing down the video to watch!
He totally cheated on the stay on the first rep but the jump form was really nice! He caught himself beginning to cheat later in the session (:50) but stopped himself – good boy!
For now, we are going to keep you out next to the toy and moving forward – there was one rep where you sent to the toy while you stayed by the jump, but that is a decel position so we don’t want him to extend past it. All of the rest had you out with the moving target toy, and those looked good!
It is possible that the distances were a few inches too wide, but that mght also be because you are indoors and mats have a different grip than grass. If you have decent weather, you can take this outside and see how he does at these distances.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi! These are going really well! Only 1 sugestion for the mechanics that might make it feel even smoother:
Lean forward more and get your hand more to her nose level, and keep it there until she is just a couple of inches from it. Then you can step back and move it back to cue the turn.
That will build in a bit more decel for you both, plus it will keep you from being too early with the arm or step back. When you were a shade early with the foot and yur hand was high, she thought it was a throw back (like at :53 and 1:19)
The reps at 1:57 amd 2:22 were great examples of your hand being lower and the timing of the cue started just before she got to the hand – nice timing, nice turn!!!
You can also send her to the other wing from further away will mean you don’t have to back up as much 🙂 That will also make it easier to get your hand low and feet together to prep for the turn away.
I think she is ready to see the tandem turns!
Great job here!
Tracy
