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Good morning!
You are always welcome to post video, of course, and definitely post it if my ideas aren’t working 🙂
I think we just need to jumpstart the behavior and that will help her, then it will all be easy 🙂You might be trying all or some of these, so let me know what is working or not 🙂 Here are some ideas:
– scrunch the tunnel up so it is as short as possible, so it is super easy and also easy to see the reward on the other side.
– place her reward on the other side, making it really visible, and don’t have anything in your hands in case she is looking to you for reward– revisit the turn away on the flat games, for the tandem turn foundation (this is the advanced level of the Turn Away from last week) just to help her understand turning away – then do it on the flat, near the tunnel to warm up the skill, then try it with the tunnel. And when you add it to the tunnel, you can totally help her by using the hand motions.
– you can also start on her stronger side (I can’t remember if she is lefty or righty) – turning to her preferred side can help start the understanding and then it is easy to transfer to her less comfy side)
– start her on the easiest possible angle, so the tunnel entry is super easy and th turning away is minimal.When she understands it, it will be easy to add harder angles.
Keep me posted about what works! I think all she needs is that one lightbulb moment then it will be easy 🙂
TracyGood morning! Hooray for blue skies!!!!!
These handling combos looked great – the dog training goal is that he is able to commit as you move away, do excel & pivot with a BIG toy distraction, then drive out to the toy when cued. He gets a big gold star for being perfect on all of those! Yay! My only suggestions are handling suggestions, and that is really fun that a pup is ready for handling feedback for the dad LOL!
Little ideas for you:
You can now start sending to the wrap from further back, so you have time to get the FC (or blind cross) finished before he exits. When you start close, he is VERY quick and you are a little late finishing 🙂 Ideally, you are starting the FC or blind just as he arrives at the wing. Then soon enough, you will be starting it before he arrives at the wing. Move away and start earlier very gradually, to maintain his commitment (better to be late with commitment for now than it is to be early without commitment).
When you are getting ready for the decel, be sure to have your arm back towards him as he exits the wing wrap, so you can make connection to show him which side you want – then when you sees the connection, you can drop your decel hand in for the pivot. At :14,you didn’t get the connection and went straight to the decel hand dropped in, so he didn’t see which side to be on. Compare that to :32 after the blind, where you made a VERY clear strong connection and then did the decel – lovely!
And (although this will be less of an issue as you add more distance and start the crosses sooner) – for now, try to decel immediately after the blind (as you make connection). He is getting faster and faster, which is great! But at :38 he was going really fast so your decel was a little late (which is why he was blasting past you :))Great job on these! Feel free to make up your own “courses” 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>What is your reaction? Obviously, it’s too early to do this. I’m not sure something stationery, like a Cato board, is the something to do after the seesaw – I’m more inclined to make it a moving toy of some sort or a food toy. Perhaps, later, something like a tunnel where she is moving away.
I think her idea is really good for later on, but not for now. And I agree with you about letting her move away fast from the teeter! Letting her run away from the teeter as part of the reward uses both positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement! For example, if she touches the end of the teeter and we throw a ball for her to chase, the ball is the positive reinforcement (adding something she likes) and the opportunity to move away from the teeter is negative reinforcement (taking away something she doesn’t like: taking away the teeter :)) . Both types of reinforcement will help build the behavior!
TracyHi!
>>If I was using the set up in the video, when she is fresh I would use the cookie marker after the weaves so the sequence would be jump, tunnel, weaves then “cookie”. The marker is after the low value weaves and she is moving away from the cookies when the marker is given.
Yes, you can totally do that.
>>We could work this for 2 minutes and then we could do some sequencing and reward on the moment on the course.>
Yes to this too! But watch the amount of time she is on course, be sure to quit before she wants to quit. Do the dogs get jealous watching each other? You can let them watch which might help them be even faster!
T
Hi!
>>I have been trying to figure out the best way to do this without ruining the frisbee. He really likes chuck it squirrel, frizz and the donut one but those fall apart after one session or so. I have a chuck it saved for our next event somewhere other than home.
Any suggestions?>>My suggestion is to get a disc he really loves… and ruin it by punching a hole in the middle 🙂 it won’t fall apart and he is lively to enjoy it 🙂
Hi!
>>how much do you practice agility with remote reinforcement looking for some kinda of balance since it is harder I don’t want to ruin it?It depends on what my goals are for the session, but after the dog understands the idea – if I am running sequences, I might practice it one out of every 5 or 6 runs?
T
Hi! You totally got a workout here running back to the cookies LOL!
>>She could move away from the reward.
Yes, she was really good!!!
>>She got more enthusiastic as the exercise continued.*
>>*She did slow down on the longer reps at the end, but we can’t really say if it was adding too many obstacles too soon or the session was getting too long. Lesson learned is to do a little less and more slowly in the future.Yes, she was enthused which is great! And yes, I could see the change in her speed. I think we see values of different obstacles – tunnels are pretty valuable, the dog walk is valuable (potentially because she was running across it towards the cookies) but jumps and weaves and moving a long way away from the cookies all need more value. So with that in mind, try to get your cookie markers in for jumps, after weaves, and when you are miles away from the cookies 🙂
>>Ping ponging was effective and I know better how to do it.
It was a fun game.>>Yay! I am glad you had fun!
>>Things to improve:
Add obstacles in smaller increments.>>Yes, with emphasis on the cookies marker after the lower value obstacles.
>>Don’t do as many reps in one session. (yes, I know you have been saying it, but seeing is really believing!)>>
Yes! Set a timer. 2 minutes and done! And you don’t have to only do remote reinforcement, you can work sequences with the reinforcement on you to reward in the moment out there on course.
>>Biggest take away for me was that she was really having a good time. When she barks she is happy and she was pretty vocal for her.>>
That right there is the MOST important thing! We want the dogs to have a grand time and to feel empowered in the ring – that will translate to joy in the ring at trials too!
Great job here 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> Honestly it started a terrible depression that can still be a struggle because I just adore Fever so much and he’s so talented. I had further setbacks emotionally after being at the open and Cynosport because I’m still not sure he can ever handle that. It’s been lovely in my brain 😅.
Yeah, the brain really messes us all up LOL!! I can relate, it is all really hard, and being at a big event might feel like things are magnified. An important element of dog sportsing is the handler mental prep game. The science of training and veterinary medicine can carry us a long way in terms of helping the dog get where we want him – but it doesn’t help our emotional state nor does it guarantee that the dog will compete at the level we want for any number of reasons that we cannot control. So – mental game! A mantra about the mental game that I have heard over and over is: it works when you work it. And this is so true. I always feel much better when I work the mental game for myself, regardless of how the training/trialing is going. So I recommend going back to the mental prep steps that you find helpful and working them, or expanding the mental prep toolbox.
The video was a good session, mainly to sort out what *is* reinforcing and what is NOT reinforcing. He is in it for the frisbee, and that is fine – we are all in it for something! (I am in it for the chocolate haha)
The other thing I see in the video is a clear stream of ‘yes’ or ‘no’ about how the leash was presented, in terms of how he perceived the value:
1st rep – woosh chasing it – yes – nice – maybe tug leash longer
2n rep – woosh chasing it, mostly yes, but the friz was also right there or exploding so he was not sure entirely – maybe have the friz in your arm pit or something so he can focus on the leash f
3rd rep – woosh – yes strike – no4thg rep – thrown leash – definite no, called a quick uber – he came right back, good boy.
5th rep – friz only, no leash, definite yes, then he liked friz while wearing leashSo for the next session, pick the one procedure that is most effective and stick with it, don’t change procedures. The value builds because it gets predictable: chasing/tugging on the leash means friz is coming. Since he has told us that the chasing is the biggest fun, stick with that for now.
Have you tried punching a hole through a friz and attached it to a long toy or leash so it flings around like a roller gone wild? He might like that too!
>>I think he did better when I had both reinforcers in my hand but man that was a lot for my brain to try to handle.>>
Yes, but you did it and then you an fade the friz to your armpit or stick it down the back of your pants or something – leash play brings the friz out, even when it is not visible!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! He did a really good job ignoring that chair for the most part! It had cookies and toys and he was a good boy, especially releasing off the start line into the course.
The enxt step is fading the cookies and toys off of you entirely – no cookies or toys in your hand or pocket at all, including the line up for the start (but you can do short bursts of a small sequence for the remote reinforcement, because working with the cookeis and toys entirely out of the picture is much harder! You were getting the toy out of the picture more, which is great!>>rep with toy followed by a mini zoom
The tugging looked good there but it was a hard challenge, so he needed to blow off some steam with the zoom. You can put it on cue and tell him to go for a run!
He was a little more distracted by the 4:30 mark, and then he went directly ot the chair when you said “yay good boy” at about 4:50 – you can mix in reps where you reward out in the sequence so it is not always really hard, and then 2 things about the remote reinforcement – don’t use praise as part of it (or he will think praise is the marker LOL!) abd try not to mark and go to it when he is already running towards it… he might then think that running towards it is part of the picture, and anticipate by running towards it like he did at 4:50 and on the last rep. In training, I try to do most remote reinforcement when the dog is turning away or moving away from it to avoid that anticipation issue.
>>no toys he seems to be unsure about taking off something tall is handing the toy ok?
Yes, you can totally hand it to him 🙂
>>eparate curiosity I was doing rally last night and he loved go get your cookie at the end. If it doesn’t go quite right somewhere in the middle do you still play up let go get a cookie before you start again or just give an effort cookie less party and start again?>>
I don’t know a lot about rally bu, like agility, most errors are handler errors or a training issue. So what you do there depends on the goal of the session: if you are working a course with remote reinforcement, you can fix a small oopsie and keep going. If the oopsie is un-fixable, then yes you can run back to the reward and start over. I try to always give a good party because the errors are almost always mine, even if I can’t figure out why til later when I watch the video 🙂
NIce work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is also going really well!
Question – you were using a couple of different verbals in the remote reinforcement moment – is it let’s go or cmere or get it or…? My guess is that you were caught in the heat of the moment and different things were coming out (I feel this pain LOL!!) sp keep trying to isolate the RR marker.Tulka is a very patient girl with all of the other dogs around here and in the previous video LOL!
Her dog walk work here looked good. I think she was kind of calm, so what things make her more aroused that you can use to get her into a more trial-like state? That will really help this concept transfer from training to trials!
And you can add praise after she hits position – you were very quiet so she was offering other things (like the down) – you can praise quietly then either release to continue, or use the RR marker.
>> let me know if I’m correct that I would just continue to build this up to a full run with all of her contacts/tables etc.
Yes, over time, pingponging the # of obstacles before the RR marker. It doesn’t mean that every run should be done without reinforcement in the ring, it just means that you will sometimes want to do a sequence or course with nothing in your hands or pockets. That magnetic ball is AWESOME but it is also obvious and quite visible to her 🙂 So yes, over time, you will build this up to full runs with the reward outside the ring 🙂
Great job here on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This was all really good!
Turn back – looks good! Catch – looks good! She seemed perfectly happy to stay and responded well to the different markers. So now we can plan for trials – how does she do on the start line at a trial? Separately – Will she play with her leash? You can use her leash with this and it will help anchor her at the start line at a trial.Great job!
TracyGood morning!
She did really well here, she has lovely engagement in this environment! There were some good distractions here, even a little bit of chaos LOL! I think you can add a destination or something here so you are going somewhere – she was not sure what you wanted her to do because you were moving around but not really going anywhere so she was defaulting to an obedience position and that was fine 🙂 Moving from Point A to Point B will give her a bit more context so she won’t need to offer heel position, she can move with you and offer engagement. You can also do this on leash, standing still, while another dog is running as if you are waiting for your run outside the ring.Also, you can do more with tug toys too, to increase arousal like she might see at a trial – tugging rewards rather than cookie rewards or the ball off the ground, so she learns to offer engagement even when she is more stimulated.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>>How’d your startline routine go?Went great! Mostly looked like this:
Not sure what happened to the rest of the video, I did more with him but it has gotten cut off.
He put himself in a sit after I got rid of the leash, good boy. Both dogs found it really relaxing to come in like that and were all business. I don’t have any other video, sadly. I was taking it easy and not pushing him because it was his first time seeing full height at a trial… til he SMOKED me on a line. Oops! LOL!
>>Definitely I need to play around with when the leash comes off, before or after setup? He can’t consistently tug on the way into the ring with a toy yet and we’ve still got aways to go with his leash in the trial environment.
He might be all business on the way into the ring. Lots of dogs are like that! My Export was like that. Contraband appears to be like that, he does NOT want to tug on his leash, he wants to get to work right away. And it is fine 🙂 The tugging after the run is a really useful procedure if he will go it.
>> MORE than happy to do it on home turf and getting pretty comfortable with it in classes at AK9C but the trial environment is still very much a work in process. We’ve got a lot of good tools now and are making some real progress. 🙂
Perfect!!!
>>The really good thing is that once we get setup and I start to leadout he’s “all business”….
Experiment with being all business as soon as you enter the ring – to the line, leash off, line up, lead out, release. It might just be his sweet spot!
(Confession – I try to show each dog all the different procedures because I will be running 4 dogs soon, and I am 100% sure that I will not be able to keep things perfect if each dogs relies on a different entry to the ring/start line process)
>>Short session today with some remote reinforcement and LOTS of distractions. We had done some dogwalks earlier and just off screen on the right is the dogwalk and in the corner (sort of behind him) is his MM. Plastic bag with treats in one of the chairs between the jump and the tunnel. Just did the 2 reps……>>
Distractions are good! He did REALLY well here! You can experiment with all sorts of different start line procedures in this type of game. He did well with the leash off and setup here.
It might have appeared that he was distractd or heading for the leash or reward at :43, but when you freeze the video – your feet and line of motion cued a rear cross. Good boy!! He was rading the handling correctly, not leaving for distractions. You can totally reward that! Even if you think he was looking at distractions but then comes back, you can reward the excellent decision 🙂 Compare your line and feet at :43 to your cues at 1:22 and 1:28 and I think you will see how he was correct to read rear cross on one and FC wrap on the others 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Good work on these games!!
Countermotion –
She is touching the target nicely here and generally ignoring the cookie to head to the target – good girl! I think she is sometimes looking at your hand because it is right over the target a lot.>However, I feel ‘stuck’ at the target until she touches it, I am not sure her value for touching it will override my movement away, especially as she keeps checking my hand, presummably for a treat.>
This is because you are in a loop that is too fast (I know I keep bugging you about this 🙂 ) because the send is immediate after the cookie reward, so she is not fully prepared to send away and you were not prepared to move for the countermotion – you need to insert the engagement into it. That moment of engagement prepares both of you so then as she is moving away from you, you can move forward. If there is not that moment of preparation, she will be at the prop immediately without you having a moment to move forward.
Consider the engagement moment of ‘ready ready’ as part of the Antecedent of an A-B-C loop:
A:Enagage thenSend
B:She begins moving to the prop and when she is maybe 6 inches or less from it, you slowly move the other way, she hits it
C:You mark and reward
then back to A.you will need to start her far enough away from the prop so you can move away a little, and move away really slowly at first. Her hits were good here, it was the loop we can smooth out.
Also, if something goes wrong, reward her! For example, at :39 she hit it the prop with her foot but I think you didn’t like your mechanics so you grabbed her collar, pulled didn’t reward, played a little smack the baby – then got mad when she got mouthy (but that was elicited by the lack of reward and you doing the hand play by her head). So the easiest thing is to just reward and reset 🙂Decel combo has the engagement as part of the game and it makes the cookie toss start so much cleaner! for both of you! No lost cookies and she immediately drove back to you. Plus she likes it 🙂
When she was coming up to the pivot on your right side, she was not quite as good about decelerating and setting the bend as she was on your left side. So, on the right side, you can slow the game down and walk away and decel to a standstill as she learns to get organized for the bending – the running is too exciting for her on that side. She was much more organized when she was on your left for the decel and pivot, so you can keep moving fast on that side.2nd video – nice job on this one too!!
The pivot on our right is harder here too – a :28 you ended up being far ahead and standing still, that was my favorite in terms of her deceleration and bending on your right side. Compare it to the next rep at :44, which had more running and was not as good of a decel – so for the right side, less motion will help her but you can still run on the left side, she was stronger there.
And for the go after the pivot, add in some toys! And remember to say go or get it on those, you were quiet on some reps but it is good to add in verbals there.Tugging up on you looks good! Don’t have her up there too long, she is little and will fatigue and let go because it is a hard position for a baby dog – do short bursts of 3 or 4 seconds, then lower her to the floor. This will help the retrieve so definitely keep playing with it!
Speaking of the retrieve:
>>Ok, so I tried a few sessions of just tossing a toy (tried several) close and if she picked it up and brought it even an inch back to me and played with it. It bored her after even just one or two tries>>
You can get her excited with other games so she is having a grand time playing – then do one rep of this boring game LOL – then back to the other stuff. We can fold it in, slowly, to make it more fun 🙂
>>I tried adding more motion on my part to see if that was better for her. Did a couple that I didn’t video (hard in the hallway due to the corner), then I blocked a section to use and videod it. It seems to work a lot better for her to have me move away a fair bit and call her and she stays more engaged. I figure I can fade the motion over time so that I am standing still in the end.>>
Yes, this was great! And yes, you can totally fade your motion later on (especially as she learns how fun it is to tug with her feet up on you!
First retrieve was really good!! On the others, I think she was taking a moment to decide wher to grab the toy 🙂 Having the 2nd toy in your hand might have distracted her so try one toy in view at a time as the focal point and the other toy can be in your pocket. This was a great setup and we can add more “boring” in later 🙂
Grear job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I have no problem letting the instructors know we’re going to be avoiding doing the teeter for now. In the arena the equipment can be 80 or more feet away depending on the set up. It is that far away this week. However, I think you’re suggesting I not do the “find it” game when other dogs are running the teeter this week, correct?
I think the find it game should be fine, relatively far and with amazing cookies – I was suggesting no games on the actual teeter.
>> I can just leave the room when others are using the teeter.
If you feel that she is uncomfortable, you can move further away or leave the room if she is still not comfy.
>> Do you feel I can do the “find it” game in class with teeters if they are being used next week?
Yes!
>>The location of the teeter varies in the indoor setting, and is usually 25 or more feet from where we would be working. Is that too close for now?
Probably too close – we need to unravel some history of bad luck with the noise, so start so far away that you can guarantee it is not going to have any little startle response like she did in the class when another dog went over it.
>> When the instructor checked in with us, she felt Keiko was mouth breathing. I took her outside and we walked there for a while, having a sniff fest.
Interesting to note the breathing! It might mean something… or not LOL!! Does Keiko know a chin rest? You can teach her to rest her chin in your hand (help reset the breathing) and also I think Control Unleashed has a game to teach the dogs to take a deep breath! Cool stuff!
>> I know the breeder thinks I’m babying Keiko, but I think Keiko’s reactions to noise come from fear. She does startle at any sudden noise, especially when it’s behind her and she can’t tell where it’s coming from.
Well, I like to go with the science, and the scientific literature supports working through noise stress this way, and not forcing the dog to have to deal with it in a way that is not comfortable or safe-feeling. So if that is babying – then yes, we will baby her! I have found that comforting a dog that is concerned and helping them, just like we would with people, is HIGHLY effective 🙂
>>Keiko was in our field earlier today and chose to do the seesaw on her own. I hadn’t heard back from you at that point, so we made a little game of her 2o2o and then I threw the frisbee. She asked for this little set 3 or 4 times, then we went on to something else. Our field is mostly dirt with some grass patches here and there, and the ground is usually soft so the “bang” is very muffled. She seemed totally herself.>>
I think the noise is more situational for her and not generalized to all teeters – so building the toolbox at home with a teeter she loves will really help!
>>So I’ll go back to doing the bang game at home with frisbee rewards. Once she gets the hang of it, she should enjoy it. It will be interesting to see how she reacts to touching a moving end since she’s used to the low end being on the ground.
I agree, she will love it. Start it easy, make it fun 🙂 Keep me posted!
Tracy
