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Hi! Glad you have some clearance!!! The Back Front Combos are great for walking!!!!
We have til April 1st here, so you should be able to get more of the running stuff done too 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
> if he feels pressured or confused in training, he is very willing to leave in search of more pleasant outcomes, so he is keeping me honest for sure>>
Perfect! I like it when the dogs give us clear information like that LOL!
On the set point:
He definitely liked the moving toy! You can be more subtle when you place it, he finds that very stimulating and that contributed to the broken stay. Instead of plopping it down then dragging it, maybe slowly lower it slowly like a boat anchor as you move forward.
He was funny on the last rep, he chose to NOT watch the lead out! I don’t think it was a distraction issue, that is something I have seen some dogs do – they can’t watch when something is hard but then they are perfect when released LOL!Since this looks really good, keep th esame distance between the jumps an dput the height of the 2nd bar to 6″.
Wind in your hair looked really good! He did a super job finding the line!!!
he had a question on the very first rep, but I think you answered it for him by diong a FC on the wing after that – the front cross on the wing helped set him on the correct line to the jump better than the post turn did.One detail –
keep moving the whole time including as you are throwing – we want motion to be involved in all of this so he learns to find the jump even with the stimulation of motion. You were stopping and throwing, so when yo uare throwing you can keep running so we don’t dilute decel cues.
You kept moving much better with the placed toy! You can now alternate placing the toy and throwing the toy – and you can change your start position. You can send to the wing from further away so you are past the jump (challenging him to find it rather than chase you – throw the toy on this challenge so that you can mark that decision moment) and you can also start super close to the wing so he drives ahead of you. Placing the toy on that one will help.He had a couple of other questions but nothing too concerning:
he ended up on the wrong side of you at 1:44, but that was because you didn’t make a strong connection on your right side, so he was not sure where to be (your connection was great on the rest!)
And the bar down o nthe last rep was becaue the toy was a little too close (but it was in a perfect spot on the other reps).Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Fingers crossed for warm weather to melt all the snow! He didn’t appear to be slipping, but it is deeper so it might make him sore for the jumping stuff (like running or jumping on a beach).He is doing well with the set point, I definitely like his form with the dragging toy!! Be sure that the toy is in your dog side arm and not presented across you, so you can be facing forward the whole time and not rotated towards him.
He did really well with the stays also – it is not easy to hold the stay while a toy is dragging but he was great!On the wind in your hair video:
>>It was so hard to see if he was really looking forward or not.
it is definitely harder to see smaller dogs!! You can throw the toy from the opposite hand on this one, so you can open up the connection more downwards on the dog-side arm, to be able to see where he is looking (and that added connection can also get him on the correct side for the wing exit at 1:59) The placed toy worked well also, just have it a little further so he can stride out after the jump and doesn’t get hoppy trying to decelerate to get it 🙂
You can add more challenge to this one but starting closer to the wing so he drives further ahead of you, as well as doing the opposite – starting much further from the wing so he has to find the jump with you already past it 🙂Smiley face:
Part of the goal with this game is to train the pups to begin putting their skills into high speed sequences… and part of the goal of this game is to train the humans to connect, run, yell the right thing, etc. LOL!Your connection is looking good, he is doing a great job with commitments… so it is now all about planning verbals 🙂
>.But seriously I don’t know what the heck is so confusing about my left/right verbals!!😆I have never taught left/right before and I guess I am struggling to remember which should NOT be that hard. Maybe I’ll practice with Emmett if he feels up to it – he’s pretty deaf ow anyway so it won’t matter if I mess it up! Ha!>>
Ha! They are new which makes them harder to do while running AND watching the dog. Do runs without him so you can practice – and video to make sure you are correct. And if Emmett wants to be your practice dog for free cookies? Cool!
>> it was harder than I thought also to stop saying the encouraging words in between commands.
Yes! You tend to tell him how great he is more than give him info… He already knows how great he is, so he just wants the facts on course now LOL! He doesn’t go faster when you praise him, he tends to slow down a little because the praise doesn’t tell him what is next.
Most people either don’t do the run through without the dog in training, or they might walk it slowly and either don’t say the words or say them quietly. But it is an entirely different ballgame when running the dog, which is why I try to convince people to run for real without the dog and videotape it 🙂
So for your next round of smiley face games – run it without him, video it: see if you can get all the verbals and connections correct with no praise 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello!
>>I’m back from my short vacation. Sprite wanted to feel wind in her hair!
Hope you had a fun time! And Sprite looked great here! She had no trouble finding the line to the jump with you walking or running. Yay!
So you can change things to add challenge in two ways:
– move the start wing further and start yourself really clsoe to it, sticking near it til she exits then accelerate up the line so she leaves you in the dust (a placed reward might work best for this so you don’t have to worry about the throws).
– move the wing further but you start near the jump – send her to the wing and be passing (or past) the jump when she exits the wing. That challenges her to find the jump and not just chase you (I like thrown rewards for this one so you know can reward the decision to find the jump and not chase you).>>I noticed on the set point video you dragged the toy on occasion. But, the original explanation said keep the toy out of your hand. Do you want us to try the moving toy?>>
Yes – original Baby and Advanced level set point game is just about teaching the set point concept with a stationary toy, making sure the stay is in a happy place, getting the bounce stride and head down. But, because this entire class of MaxPuppers is doing so well, we can add the dragging toy if the pre-game went well. The keeping the toy out of the hand is about not rewarding from your hand (which brings the head up). The dragging toy technically has one end of it in your hand LOL but the delivery is from the ground.
And yes, you can add it for her 🙂 She is ready! Great job here 🙂
TracyHi! Post the video here, I didn’t see anything come through here or in email?
The last session you did was the Fast Lines game – you can pick up there and then check out the week 5 games.
T
Hi!
Bummer about not getting to the UKI but totally understandable and definitely the right choice. How is George feeling? Gallbladder pain is AWFUL! Did they take it out or just the stones?
And it is never a good idea to train in a trial setting when your head is somewhere else. You made the right choice!
>>Next weekend is AKC so I’m thinking I could do some rewarded start lines with a toy in my FEO class. I can’t throw the toy, but I can release to tug?
Yes – the toy can be in your hand but cannot be thrown.
>>I knew you’d say that about the backside cues, LOL.
I’m pretty predictable LOL
>>Do you feel it’s best to rename the wrap one?
Yes – best and easiest at this point because her existing cue has more value as a slice. Also, the backside wrap is not a super high priority because of all the backsides you will see in AKC, I’d say 75% or more will be backside slices.
On the video:
Fast lines:
Great timing on your verbals for the turn wing and that is probably the timing she will need at trials (while she is over the previous jump). I was happy with all of the reps here, really nice!!!!!>>I noticed when she needed to do the soft turns, she would check in with me as she rounded the wing so I was throwing the reward to reinforce the line.
yes, but I don’t think it was anything other than she saw there was nothing else out there and you were not accelerating, so she was assuming ‘end of sequence’ and looking at you. Throwing the toy worked nicely!!!
You can spread out the distances on this one for more challenge, and you can also look at the course work game from week 5 🙂
Serp versus go:
>.The serp/go was challenging, so many words!
I feel this pain. Ha! SO MANY WORDS lol But if we can spit them out in a compressed space, doing them on bigger courses will be easier.
The GO was harder for her, especially with the layering element. You started throwing the toy nice and early, which REALLY helped! And it not seem to cause issues for the left/right serps, she did those really nicely.
>. I know my timing of saying them was off, but that was more of her default – to come in to me.
You can add them sooner for sure, so you can repeat them as well. They must have been quieter because I could hear the GO very clearly but not the soft turn verbals as well (I don’t need to hear them, Josie needs to hear than and it appears she did LOL!)
So the session was more about the GO with the layering, and that is great! She needs more GO line work (all of our dogs do!) and layering has become really popular as a course design element now. This went well!
For the next session, start as you did here, with the nice early throws for the GO lines. Then if she continues to do really well, you can ever-so-slightly delay the throw until after you see her looking straight so the throw will still be early, but not as early, to test her understanding a bit.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning and welcome 🙂 I am glad you found us here, thank you Donna LOL!!
Chata’s wing wraps looked great! Nice use of verbals! And she picked them up like a sponge – brilliant! So…. we can use this setup to work mechanics 🙂
>> we have developed an collar issue when in arousal.
Thank you for leaving it in, I can definitely see the tooth hug moments. It is GREAT info from the pup and it will help us sort things out which will help avoid frustration/tooth hugs in other areas of training. Yay! I recommend a couple of changes to the mechanics:
The collar hold should just be a gentle hold: don’t move her by the collar in these games, don’t pull her back or lift her (although she might be lifting herself), don’t grab the collar before you take the toy away. She doesn’t like it in general, even with the food – and she gets bitey when the toy is aroused. Good info!
Instead, play with the toy, get the toy back (no touching her, you can do an out or a cookie trade). Then, line her up at your side with a cookie (totally can be a follow-the-cookie lure for now), feed her the cookie at your side, slip a finger under her collar then another cookie, then without any collar pressure: start the verbals and let go pretty quickly.
>>>> I need to adjust food delivery I think since I was having her come all the way around each time? Or maybe it doesn’t matter?
I think it matters because it was not as clean with the line up and collar hold –
When just using food, have 2 cookies in the reward hand and one cookie in the other hand: you can reward her for coming around the wing with one cookie (she will be facing you), then she can follow that same hand into the reset position with the 2nd cookie – then the cookie hand slips a finer under her collar and the other hand delivers the line up cookie. You will be alternating sides – first rep from your left side, reward on your right, reset on your right, next rep on your right, reward on your left, reset on your left, and so on 🙂 Lots of cookies but she won’t be sad about that LOL!So with these mechanics, the collar hold is just part of the loop and sandwiched in between a shit-ton of reinforcement for all sorts of other stuff. There might be a variety of reasons why she doesn’t love it – restraint is frustrating when she wants to go go go, or the collar grab is predicting the toy removal/end of play which is punishing (negative punishment), or she doesn’t enjoy being moved around by her collar… or all of the above. She is sending a pretty clear message LOL! so we can adjust the mechanics and then all of the arousal/frustration around the collar grabbing will just go away because the conditioned response to it is totally different.
>> She really likes them and she’s starting to bark while working.
Interesting to note but nothing to worry about at this point 🙂
Great job here! I am excited to see more of her games!!
TracyHi! Nice work on these – it is really fun to see him sorting this out!!!!
The serp versus go is a good challenge for him!
>> I think I’m late on my exit line verbal but I also am not sure if I can really say in much earlier and still get the serp vs go on?
Yes, I think you were a little late but when you said the GO earlier, as he was arriving at the wing, he had good success – especially when you had a big energy change in the verbal like at 1:31. That rep was perfect timing to switch to the GO ON verbal and the change in the delivery of the verbal was incredibly distinct – love it!!!! That distinct difference plus the quieter/longer left and right verbals will help him get good at processing the difference.
On other thing that can help for now is to slow down your motion so you are not past the serp jump on the serp lines – being past it is motion/line support for the go which might be too much ‘proofing’ of the left/right for now. So you can move more slowly so you are more in between the serp jump uprights, which helps support the serp with a bit of positional cuing and challenges the go lines 🙂 And in that position – for the Go line, as soon as you see him looking ahead, you can throw the reinforcement so he gets the concept of layering without you needing to accelerate.
the back front combos are looking good! With the wing in position 1, the front side is very hard to find so you can help with a wrap cue on the start wing – but he totally sorted it out nicely!
>> I spend more time doing the right side stuff and less on the left in case you are wondering why going right seems harder. I think it’s me lol.>>
Ha! He did seem stronger in one direction, but that could have also been that it was the second part of the session and he was developed the concept in the first part of the session. But overall, he did REALLY well – at first there were subtle differences in your line (going straight to the center of the bar for the backsides, a bit of pulling away for front sides) but then later in the session, there was not a lot of difference: for example, at 2:19 you were really starting to leave early, your line was pretty much the same running line as the front side cue, and he still got the backside slice. GOOD BOY!!!! SUPER!!!
He only had one other question, towards the end – on the backside wrap, at 2:22 you had a little too much speed with all that pressure on the line so he pinged off the jump. Good to know! There was nothing wrong with the cue, but he is still learning the skill. So that cue will be your eventual end result and for now, he needs a little less speed: the rep at 2:27 was the perfect amount of speed and pressure for now, and you can gradually build it back up.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Set point went well! I am glad you moved your position to out by the MM – the handler position on these will always be out by the reward target so we don’t dilute decel cues.He definitely has the concept of this now – the correct ‘bounce’ between the jumps and a strong stay behavior. With the stay – be sure to watch his hind end before the release, there was a bit of butt elevator before the release at 1:05, I think he heard you inhale and was anticipating the release 🙂 So keep throwing reinforcement back to him to maintain the stay.
The MM was not all that exciting for him, plus it is stationary, so he was organized nicely but really not powering through the set point. That is exactly what we want as we get started to be sure the young dogs can organize themselves to jump before we ask for speed. Since he was happy with the concept here, we can go to a toy: a stationary toy to start, then the dragging toy. Be sure to do the dragging toy/moving target pre-game before adding it to the set point, so he can get organized on the flat before he has to do that with a moving toy and 2 jumps.
When the toy gets involved, especially when it starts moving, you might find he has more power and then needs a little more distance between the 2 jumps – and that is fine, you can spread them out by 6 inches or a foot.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi1 I think it is more of a side preference than a value balance issue – plus, if you did the choochoo side first, it might be an arousal thing where he had to ‘remember’ that life is not just about the tunnels 🙂 So for the next session do the digdig side first and see how he does!
T
Good morning!
OMG that toy is both perfect AND hilarious!!! It looks like an actual rabbit on a rope.
She did really well on the set point – no worries about her landing spot – next time, try to set her up maybe 2 or 3 inches from the start jump to see if that gives her a little more power, and measure the distance to see what works best for her to be pretty centered. The stay looked good and she didn’t lose her mind chasing the bunny LOL!She did well with the Wind In Your Hair game! I think the hardest part for her was the start wing, when you were further away and trying to leave sooner. We can strengthen that skill, which will make the rest of the game easier too:
She also had trouble when you were too far from the start wing, so add distance more gradually by holding the send cue a little longer (the arm and leg forward, don’t drop the arm and leg back to do the FC til she is at the wing) and then throw reinforcement to the wing for her commitment – that will allow you to work on getting further from the start wing, which will allow you to get further ahead of her for the jump
then when you are rewarding for the jump – when she is driving ahead, keep moving during and after toy throw. The motion will support the cue, and we don’t want to dilute your decel cues by having her jump in extension because of the toy throw.
She mad a normal young dog error of chasing you and not taking the jump when you were ahead and running, so try to be ahead and walking for now til she can lock onto the jump more. That will need more distance on the send to the start wing so you don’t have to rush. Or, you can have someone hold her so you can walk forward and she will be pumped up and still getting challenged to find the jump when you are way ahead.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! These both looked really good!!
Serps – yes, she is really terrific with her serps so it is a good setup to play around with the verbals. The RIIGHT and LEHFFT definitely sound different than the wraps! Yay! And you can repeat them, as long as they are still kinda slow and stretched out like you did them here. One thing to add:
Say the serp verbals sooner, as she is at the wrap wing so she can associate them with setting up for the jump. You were tending to say the second verbal late (when she was jumping) so if it is a left turn on the wrap wing, say it when she is on her way to the wing but then as soon as she arrives at the wing, switch to the right verbal for the serp jump, so she hears it in time to adjust for the jump (which is easy for her to do in this setup).
You can definitely go to the Serps Part 2 game!! Fun!The backside slices are also looking good. When you stand still, she didn’t get it but that is fine because standing still is the one thing she probably will never experience on a backside send on course 🙂 So, add motion especially when you are moving to the center of the bar, like you did at 1:14 – she was great with the motion added! Just be sure your feet are facing forward to the bar and not to the backside as you line her up 🙂
For the next session on this one, add motion and mix in some front side soft turn verbals too. And if she does well – you can then move to the next game, the Back Front Combos 🙂Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I love the wind chimes! And I am glad the weather is improving so you can do some games outdoors 🙂
She did well with this game – she will enjoy it even more when you can be running 🙂 And she was fine with the can falling over LOL! Some ideas for you:
>>I use a bunch of other marker words but when I’m not on my game then yes is the default to come out of my mouth.
I feel this too 🙂 All of my marker words with 9 year old Voodoo seem to be “YAY!” Every.single.one. Ha! No wonder he was so frustrated with me when he was young. Oops! So before each rep with the young dogs, I do a quick inventory of when to reward, where to reward, and the marker – when I mentally run through it each rep, my mechanics are MUCH cleaner and the session goes a lot better 🙂 And now I am pretty good with the young dog markers (and somehow still say “YAY” for Voodoo all the time haha) an =d this will help you get your zoom marker out too!
On the video:
Her commitment is looking really good in general! This is great! We can look at a couple of things involving mechanics to get her looking ahead even more and also, not biting you 🙂When you throw the toy to reward the line, throw sooner. She has a magical ability to find the jump AND look at you the whole time. Normally, I would suggest that you throw as soon as you see her look forward at the jump – but she really never looked forward LOL! So, we will just associate the placement of the reinforcement with the cue, to elicit looking forward: as soon as she exits the barrel wrap, as you move forward, throw the toy with the marker. it will be REALLY early – but she will begin to look ahead and not at you. And when she is looking ahead, we can change and delay the timing of the throw but for now – just throw really early, it doesn’t matter if she is looking at you or not. You were throwing when she got over the jump bump, which was causing her to look at you. For now, throw so early it is almost a lure 🙂 But if it helps get her looking forward, then it is a win!!
She does seem more stimulated here and that led to some bite-the-momma and a jump up at your face moment too. I don’t want her to rehearse that, I don’t want to ignore it, and I don’t want to get mad at her or punish her… so different mechanics will solve the problem with reinforcement, so we don’t have to ever see it again LOL!!
Use reset cookies to line her up for each start – and be really fast with them. When she wasn’t quite ready for the wrap cue on the 2nd rep, and you stepped back too quickly – she jumped up at you. So before the rep, use a line up cookie and take a moment to make sure everything is ready before sending. And if something goes wrong (because sometimes that happens :)) use and immediate reset cookie to get her to your side. I prefer early & often reset cookies over the leaping up or biting (I am sure your flesh prefers that too haha!)
The other bitey moments were after the toy retrieve – her retrieves were really good, as you mentioned! SUPER!! So before she can even think about trading for your flesh, whip out a line up cookie or a second toy, or something that keeps her mouth engaged in a happy reinforcing thing as you get the original toy back, while saving your flesh so she doesn’t rehearse biting. And you can do this without her jumping up on you, because that is definitely where you were seeing the most tooth hug action 🙂
>>3) Hold hands lower when asking for tug – up seems to mean jump on me (and apparently bite me).
Yes, I agree with the lower hands idea – one hand can be holding the original toy and the other hand can be trading for the cookie or next toy, and the 3rd hand can be… oh wait, only 2 hands hahaha
>>4) When she spits toy to bite me don’t pick it up – make her pick it up and bring it to me.
Try not to even get into this position – use clean, fast mechanics to get the retrieve toy back and get her lined up before she spits it and before she bites. And if she spits it, use your reset cookie or 2nd toy. I think if you make her pick it up and retrieve it, that can be frustrating to her and frustration leads to more tooth hugs.
The other option is to have a reset area like a dog bed or cato board or klimb, so she can get the toy, meet you there, hop on her spot, get the next reward, then proceed into a smooth clean line up for the next rep – no tooth hugs anywhere! The more she learns how to earn reinforcement when she is stimulated, the less she will want to bite you 🙂
I worked all of these with Contraband because working whippets and lurchers can be VERY bitey, and after Voodoo’s tooth hugs when he was young, I knew that I wanted high drive, lots of speed, and ZERO tooth hugs 🙂
Let me know what you think! She is looking great!
TracyGood morning!
>>So Lanna and I went to a UKI trial this weekend.
UKI is great for both having really reinforcing runs, and showing us all the things we haven’t trained yet LOL!
>> It is clear her go and lateral send from 20-30 feet behind nonexistent (it is also clear that her arousal level exceeds her ability to actually take the jump but that is a separate issue ;)). >>
>>So obviously she needs substantially more long line distance go work (speed circles, forward send lines, and lateral distance curves), but the question is do I start short and work up on variations of exercise 1 and 2 or put the tug out as a lure and work big distances (the way I trained Pip) or some version of all of the above.>>A bit of all of the above, fading the lure into a thrown reinforcement as early as possible – thrown at the moment she looks ahead. Exercises 1 and 2 here are turn exercises, so the big wide open course running skills come for the big distance stuff (like the little course game in the last week).
You can try to add some tunnels to the bigger distances, getting her nutty by doing a tunnel a bunch of times in a row, then an increasingly bigger and bigger distance so she is finding lines in higher arousal.
I also HIGHLY recommend a helper in UKI – someone to throw the reward when she looks at the line, so she gets reinforcement in that environment (internal and external environment) for driving the big lines. Helpers and thrown reinforcement are both legal in UKI NFC runs. I often bring 2 or 3 balls in – throw one, bring the dog right back for the other.
>>On the flip side it didn’t exceed her ability to hit and hang on to every set of weaves all weekend.
That is great!!!
>>I realize this is philosophical vs strictly about verbals, but given limited training time and wear on body I want to be strategic about how to get where I want to go.
I think it is mainly an experience issue. Is she able to run the bigger lines in her normal training setting? If yes – great! If not – that is the starting point, with placement of reinforcement matching with the cue produces. I use a lot of toys that are easy to throw, so I can wing them out on the line as soon as the dog look forward (and I am using the verbals and handling too). A lot of folks are anti-thrown-reinforcement but that is only because they are late late late LOL!!!! The thrown reinforcement is an issue only if you wait for the dog to get to the jump then throw – the dog either loses confidence at the last minute, or looks back at you over the jump. I like to throw early, marking that first moment of getting on the line.
The lure can help produce the behavior but needs to be faded quickly – happily, both the lure and the thrown reinforcement can be used in UKI (and some USDAA) NFC runs.
You can go back to long distance toy races and long distance driving ahead to one jump (or lateral sends) – with all of the turn work, the reinforcement value might have gotten lower and so it needs to be pumped up a bit. Let me know what you think!
Tracy
