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Hi!
For the engaged chill, we don’t want the ball to fly and ideally there is little or no food involved too. So try the scratches and pets and see how he does!T
Thank you for the Tuesday morning update!!!!
>>For Monday night training class, I was able to go 4th and practice while 1st dog ran, let him relax on raised bed, and use pockets for remote reinforcement. By the third time of running over to his remote reward, I noticed he was happily standing and wagging his tail with anticipation. I had his reward in a cooler on a chair with the pockets.>>
Perfect! He looked like a relaxed, happy, fast agility dog!!! And it looks like you also had rewards in the ring.
>> One instructor said that could backfire but liked I was putting it near the dogs in crate.
It only backfires if we don’t train him to understand how it all works 🙂 I have seen dogs not understand how it works and leave te ring tograb their leashes or cookies… but those dogs just didn’t understand, it was not their fault. You are actively training him to understand – you are doing an awesome job, and he is brilliant so it will not backfire on you 🙂 He might have questions about when/where he can have it as we train him, but that is fine and normal 🙂
>>I decided that was not good and set up behind the camera away from dogs.
that is a good decision – we don’t want him to have to run into a crate area for his rewards, it should be not too far from the ring and not in an area where other dogs might be moving around.
>>I had a hard time without the pockets so I ended up with a few cookies in hand at the start of the actions on entrance and during the first run trying to put the clam back in my pocket Instructor commented it messed up my hands and line I took on jumps so he ended up dropping a bar which is very rare for him.>>
Yes – by running with out the training pockets, you had to sort out the mechanics of where to put the cookies and the clam. Little bobbles are tp be expected at first, then it gets smoother and more comfortable. I am not worried about the bar coming down as you were figuring out what to do with the clam LOL! He is not a bar knocker and carrying the reward will get easier and easier.
>>He did engage quickly when working him with another dog out running. We had to walk past barking dog to the area behind but he ignored it and happily hopped up on his bed. He would face me and briefly turn his head to see the dog on course and then quickly turn back. He didn’t really need many cookies for the pattern game so I just moved to action’s and then some engaged chill on the bed.>>
SUPER SUPER SUPER. Yay!!!!
>>After class, the 2nd instructor told me I was giving him too many treats and I explained it was purposeful. She was having him retry sequences and he was a bit more vocal with some frustration. She thought he should calmly sit, do the obstacles and then reward, not reward before.>>
Well it depends on what the treats were for, right? If they were for staying engaged while you got feedback from the instructors, then that is cool! If they were being delivered for lining up to re-start the sequence? Also cool 🙂 I am not sure he can calmly sit with no reinforcement while you and the instructor talk – he might get distracted or get concerned… so using reinforcement in that moment is indeed purposeful to build focus. And then, reward for the obstacles as well 🙂
About the vocal moments: in handling, the errors are almost never the dog’s fault. Either we do something like disconnect, or the dog doesn’t understand the cue, or we cue it wrong. He *definitely* does better when your arm is low and you are connected to him. When you are got higher and your turned forward, he lost connection and was not sure where to be, and that is where you got some questions from him. So continuing the run, then doing cookies for resetting as you work the handling is perfectly fine, so he doesn’t get frustrated.
Looking at the videos:
First video – he looked super engaged wih you despite the people walking past!
2nd video – Look at him doing his tricks like a rockstar on the line up! And look at hime moving to the line with focus and lining up between your feet. LOVE it! Nice release! Looks like he missed the 2nd jump, but that was a connection oopsie (handling with your arm too high so he couldn’t see the connection) but he was engaged nicely!
No worries abotu the tire – is that something he struggles with (finding the tire during a run)?
It was hard to see what was happening inthe back of the ring, but I did see him barking. If that was a re-start after getting feedback from the instructor, you can take a moment to line him up again so he is ready to roll with focus.
3rd video – love how he offered engagement immediately when you took the leash off, then moved with you to the start jump and lined up. SUPER. Yes that was a weird freeway noise 🙂 He only looked for a heartbeat then looked at you again.
He did well with the person picking up the numbers as he was running! I was distracted by her but he was not LOL! Nic ework on the course here too. He does better when your arm is low and he can see your face. When you have a high arm and turn your soulders away, he has questions
Nice reset at 2:05!! That was a good way to get him back into the sequence.Great job here! What did you think of his focus and work during the class?
For this week in training, take a look at the new games, he is ready for them. Let’s focus on the off leash engagement game and the remote reinforement combo game as well as getting him to chill more with the 2 new chill ideas 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Looking at the remote reinforcement video:
She was offering engagement really quickly as you moved away here. She even started to look a little happy and hoppy on the ‘yay let’s go get it marker’
You don’t need to keep moving the reward station>>My instinct is to increase the distraction, maybe moving to the garage?
No need for distraction yet – we want this behavior to be the BEST THING EVER and that will take multiple high success sessions… and distractions can potentially cause failure or stress. So rather than adding distraction, here 2 things to add in a relatively easy environment by playing in the same area where she is successful:
– have her wearing a leash now (or a harness) like she would be doing outside the ring)
– and add in the combo game posted last night, adding in one trick. Pick a trick that she is great at with no treats in your hands! I suggest doing an entire short session of just one trick, so you can then decide if you want to stay at that level (if she is not as quick or crisp with her responses) or start to ping pong more tricks into the game.She, like me, gets bored quickly by standing still LOL! She had about 3 seconds of chill when standing on your leg. But when you put her up on the bench, she was much happier to just hang out – so that might be the golden ticket of engaged chill (standing on something so you are both very relaxed :))
>>I often have her licking a cookie up on my thigh,>>
This can easily be turned into taking a breath! If she takes a breath, she can lick the cookie 🙂
Great job here! Onwards to adding the combo game for remote reinforcement and the take a brath game for the engaged chill. Plus, the off leash offered engagement is a great one to add in next as well. Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! I hope you are having a wonderful time in Spain!!!!
The training games look strong!
The turning away on the left and right look really good! Since he can do it well in both directions, you can start to add challenge by moving your start position closer to where the 3 wings meet. So if he is on your left side, for example, you can cue a right (which is turning towards you) or a left (turning away from you, going the other direction around the minny pinny :)) This is hard so you might be moving over only an inch at a time 🙂For the zig zags:
The hardest part of the zig zag were getting the handling moves going but after the first couple of reps, you and he looked great! When you are out at wing 4, you can make a HUGE move for the first push – and you can have that cue in place before the release, so he already knows where to move to when he hears the release. Right now he needs to see the big movements especially with your feet but that will get easier as he gets used to this game. He seems to have a relatively easy time with the leash changes, so the next step would be to go back to 3 wings, but move them closer 🙂 These looked to be about 8 feet apart? So you can move them to 6 feet or 5 feet apart, which will challenge you to cue faster and also challenge him to do his lead changes faster 🙂Great job! Enjoy Spain!!!
TracyGood morning!
These went really well!His hard mouth at the beginning when taking the cookies is an interesting indicator of arousal state! Usually hard mouth is an indication of higher state of arousal.
>>He’s also as I said very much a doer and only a little bit of a thinker and not a lot of patience so when we enter the gate I do think he immediately looks for “what to do”. I never put it all together in that way before 🙂 So…we did a quick session of RR today with me looking for the instant of engagement as I moved away and “rewarding” that with the Let’s GO…run back to the treats. I really liked this session 🙂 Thoughts?>>
I think he will end up being a really great combination of fully engaged, patient… and all business on the start line 🙂
On the video – yes, I can see him looking for the ‘job’ as he moves away from the treat bag: great job marking that moment of engagement. He is brilliant and picked it up immediately!
So now, you can move this to the new game posted last night: remote reinforcement combined with a bit of the tricks he can do with no cookies in your hands 🙂
Instant focus with keys: since this behavior doesn’t get built into something like a running dog walk LOL then the nose touch interaction is great! The next steps here are to get this behavior with you standing up. And then with you standing and building value like you did in one or two different locations. Then… onwards to the part 2 game posted last night!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> you can really see over several reps especially that they need to the practice to figure out the lead change footwork. It’s definitely not always automatic!>>
Totally agree – it is not automatic for most of our dogs, definitely needs to be trained. When I look back at the demos, it is funny to see my dogs as pups with their legs going every which way LOL! But now as adult dogs they are great with lead changes. And it will be the same with Ronin – he was definitely sorting things out here. He seemed more comfy shifting to his right than his left when he needed to come towards you? But he was fine when you switched him to the other side of the start wing. So it is probably just like learning dance moves – we start of slow and a little sloppy, then we get faster and tighter and more comfy, just like he did here. This is a game to pull out and revisit once or twice a week. When you can take it outdoors, you can start with a wider distance (because he will then have to lead change with more speed) and then short it up and add more wings too!
On the serps versus FCs:
The FCs were hard for him here only because of the value of the Treat n Train and also you were standing still which is not as exciting as moving. You can start closer to the wrap wing on the FCs and then run out of it, which can be more compelling for him. He was great with his serps, as usual 🙂 Yay!
Minny pinny – starting between 1 and 2 definitely helped him, he turned his cute face to the line each time when you did that – PERFECT! Then when you started back at jump 1, he did the same thing (focused on his line as you said the verbal and before the release). Super!!!
The next time you tackle this game, move the wings to a slightly tighter angle (and the bumps :)) so that they are a little closer together, so he can ‘bounce ‘ them more. I would start the right turns the same way you did here (between 1 and 2) to warm him up, then working back to start at 1.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome!!! Thank you for the videos, she is a VERY COOL dog!!! It was great to chat with you last night 🙂
Tell me more about the stranger issue – when she sees a stranger, what does she do? Bark at them? Try to run away? Somewhere in between? Let me know and feel free to post video of her stranger reactions if you have any 🙂
Agility training and trial environments are filled with strangers who are tense and potentially doing weird things like standing there, following her (the judge!) and so on.
In order to get her really happy in the trial environment, let’s tackle her concerns first. The key will be the pattern games. Work those first at home and then with neutral distractions at home. Then we can plan a field trip to find some strange people 🙂Let me know what you think!
TracyThanks for the great question!!!!
Yes, handler energy can vary based on the goal:
for games where we want the dog to modulate their own internal state and offer engagement: the handler energy should be CHILL (I know, this is hard, I personally have to fake my chill LOL!) and let the dog offer. These games include: the pattern games, Instant Focus games, beginning stages of remote reinforcement (handler moving away from reward station), engaged chill games, and the off leash offered engagement game.
These games are intended to help the dog offer focus and engagement, even if there are distractions or worries. The goal is that the dog is ready to be moved into the right state of arousal for training or trialing, because they are relaxed and engaged.
For games where we are going to bring the dog into an ‘optimal’ state for working, running courses, etc – that is where the handler can increase her energy and get the dog ‘higher’. These games include the various tricks games, the volume dial, the line up games, and the remote reinforcement combo game where we ask for tricks after moving away from the reward station.
>> I am thinking that those games that teach / encourage her to be in the right state are worked on separately, and someday(s) she will “show up” and I won’t need to take (as much) action.>>
that will depend on the individual dog and the environment, but ideally, yes 🙂
>>Am I in fact understanding a) that I need to be different depending on the game and b) it’s ok / correct that I *should* get the arousal right before training a skill?>>
Yes and yes! The engagement games where the handler needs to be quieter in energy are designed to build comfort in the environment. That will of course make it easier to train skills, but I also use some volume dial games to get more arousal before active training, depending on the needs of the skill and difficulty of the environment.
I am going to do a bit of a pre-run timeline for everyone, so you can get an idea of how these games will fit together. Stay tuned!
TracyGood morning!
>>The good news is that he didn’t bite at the grass. That’s a big success, IMO.>>
Yes! That is a big win for sure!!!
One thing that I can think can help even more is if you are more predictable with exactly what is going to happen and how to earn reinforcement. Rather than doing a whole bunch of different things rolled together, work one game – then have a transition to the next thing, almost like narrating a story 🙂 At the beginning of the video, I was not entirely sure what he needed to do to earn reinforcement. Was it the pattern game, or something with the bowl, or? He got rewarded for a lot of different things but it was a little muddy, so when you took off to run the sequence he was not entirely engaged or in the optimal state… so you got a zoomie. Good info!!
So, you can use a more systematic approach to getting into the first sequence. An example would be:
Playing a pattern game closer to the fence line and people (on leash, as that is how it will be played at a trial) – if he has trouble finding treats in the grass, you can reward from your hand. He will let you know when you can go to the next step, by either NOT wanting to look at the fence or people at all, or doing a quick eye flick at them and then looking right back at you.
When he signals engagement with the pattern game, you can then transition to the next game – such as volume dial tricks in front of the first jump. Do 4 or 5 for rewards- if his responses are fast and snappy, then he is ready for the next step! He did seem to enjoy the toy play with his flirt pole, so you can totally use that here too! Using both the toy and the treats can help center the arousal.
>>>I don’t like my choice of just taking off to do the sequence. I should have told him what was next.
I agree – he was like, “wait, what?” LOL!!! And he was not ready for the sequence when you did that. Telling him how to earn reinforcement in each step will totally help – predictability is always a good thing 🙂
>> He can line up at my side or between my legs, so we have that in our toolbox, but I was still thinking that I didn’t want to make anything too challenging. >>
Yes! I don’t think those are to challenging. And asking for those can help you know if he is ready for a sequence or not – if he can totally do the line up behavior, then he is good to go! If he cannot… then you can keep tweaking the volume dial to get him into a better state of arousal.
>> I kept the volume dial low because I didn’t want grass eating.
It will take some experimenting to find the sweet spot, but I think he can be more stimulated here, a little ‘higher’ and a food/toy combo can get that, plus some volume dial in front of the jump to try to get an idea of how he feels.
Looking at latency:
The higher latency (slower response) of the trick at 2:09 suggests that his state of arousal was too low in that moment for running a sequence – plus he was eating a treat, looking at you and then you took of and ran at 2:12 . So you can do two things to help him: if you note that he is not as fast or crisp with his responses, then you can move further away from the jump or distraction and ask for a couple more tricks – and change how you reinforce to get more engagement. That can eithe rbe by moving the treat so he chases your cookie hand (not tossing it, but just having him chase your hand for it as you move for a few steps), or you can go to the toy 🙂
When he is running sequences, you can reward for doing the jumps in the middle of the sequence, to build value for being out there on course. In agility, I think we all reward so many things… but not enough rewards for jumps (which is the obstacle the dogs do the most LOL!!) so you can bring lots of rewards with you and reward a lot during the sequence as well. It was hard to see – did he get rewarded in the sequence when you said “yay” at 2:20, or did the reward come at the end 2:34? You can totally reward in the middle of the sequence (with a ball or treat or something fun) and then run back to get the toy 🙂 If he did not get rewarded in the sequence, it was probably too long of a delay for now – we will develop the reward station in coming weeks but for now, he doesn’t need to do full sequences with the reward placed at the end.
Engaged chill looked good! Was he able to do this while other dogs were running too? And it looks like you have a new Instant focus prop 🙂 He was happy to offer behavior on it – be sure to have the treats ready in your hands before you put it down, so he doesn’t watch the treats as much (poor starving dog hahaha). And you can get this game to where you are standing up. And when you are transitioning to another game, remove the IF prop because if it is in the picture, we want him offering on it (that will make more sense when you see the new game with it :))
>> I won’t be renting the field this week because we have a scentwork trial this weekend, but my backyard is finally snow-free, so I can work on things there.>>
You can use the wait time during the scentwork trial to do some of the Instant Focus Part 2 games!
For the home games – try the off leash offered engagement and also the Remote reinforcement combo games, to build up being able to have snappy fun tricks with the treats and toys behind you on the reward station 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>. had to move inside as the wind chill here is awful.
For real! It has been really windy and cold here too. Ewwwww!!!
Really nice session here! You broke things down nicely and built them back up really well too. He seems to do well with this on both sides.
He is really getting the idea of this (stays are looking good too!) so you can add 2 more levels of challenge:
when working indoors, you don’t really have room for more wings so you can do 2 things with the 3 wings:
– fade out the foot rotation and see if he can do it all wth just upper body/arm changes (this is a good prep for serps and threadles!). You can use lower arms and at first, tiny foot movement – then try low arms and no foot movement. You can totally do this on 2 wings first, then go back to 3 wings.– you can also bring the 3 wings in closer. If these were 5 feet, move to 4.5 feet and if that is fine, move to 4 feet (to prepare for the 4 foot bars he will see eventually!) When bringing the wings in closer, you can start with 2 wings and continue to use arm and foot cues, then build up to 3 wings. For a dog his size, I eventually work this to 3 foot distances to work on super quick lead changes.
When you work outdoors, you can use the 5 foot distance and add a 4th wing and eventually a 5th wing.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I think there was a TON of lovely stuff here on these sequences!!>> This was her first time at 10, besides the jump height video.
Yes, she needed to sort some things out at 10. When bringing the bars up to height, you can start with just one bar at 10 inches (and easy bar) and the rest at the previous height. Then if that goes well, the next session has 2 bars at 10, and so on – that way the taller height is introduced gradually so she doesn’t have to think about EVERY bar. You can also ‘lock in’ the bars so she doesn’t rehearse dropping them as she is sorting out all the things.
Also, with the taller bars – most of the dropped bars happened when you were going really fast and not super connected. So be sure to be ultra-connected so she doesn’t get distracted by the chase mode of trying to see the connection at high speed.
I think her responses to the verbals were really strong! The wraps, lefts and rights all looked lovely 🙂 especially with some of the soft turns coming as turn aways/rear crosses! A couple of the wraps were a little wider but I think that was partially the line on the course, and partially because you were saying “YES!”. So… stop saying yes LOL! The yes marker provides no information about what is coming next, so she drifts a bit wide to look at you and wait for the next cue.
Her stays are also looking GREAT!!! Happy dance! Because she starts in a down position, move her another 3 or 4 feet back from jump 1 so she ha more time to get up from the down and organize her takeoff. If she is too close to jump 1, she doesn’t quite have enough time to be organized for the 10 inch bar.
My only other suggestion is to make sure you walk each sequence before you run it with her, to get your words and lines correct – there were a couple of spots with the wrong word, or the wrong line (like back to the tunnel) so she was like “what the heck?” LOL!!! Things happen really fast during her runs, so a walk through for each sequence will keep you well-prepared for the speed 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyOuch! Poor little guy! I am sure he will be better really quickly 🙂 And you can put some stuff in the motorhome for on-the-road training next week 🙂
T
Good morning!
On the serps versus threadles –
I agree that clarifying arm use will help. I use a dog side arm for serps and a cross arm for threadles, but also the dog needs to know what a threadle is otherwise we end up having to rotated our feet too 🙂 So for now, isolate the threadles from the serps so you can teach the threadles so that the word is stronger and she is not tempted to serp (you can angle the jump to help her. She is reading positional cues too – like at the beginning, threadling at :02 because you were in the threadle gap even though the verbals said serp. So that is another way to clarify for her -the threadle verbal can predict the positional cue of you being in the gap, versus the serp where you are between the uprights of the serp jump.The sequences went well!
>> I’d like a better turn on her wraps which I know she’s capable of doing. Am I late?>>
Looking at the wraps – I think she is wanting you to do perfect handling and not processing the verbal as well without. An example would be at :55 or 1:45 where you had the decel and the rotation happening nice and early, so her turns were strong.
Compare that to :39 and 2:00 for example, where you were theoretically on time with the verbal but late with the physical cue, so she was wide on the turn.2 ideas for you to help that:
first, set this up with wider spacing between the jumps. She was one-striding it and considering that she is not a big dog at all… she should have enough spacing that she has to 2 stride the distances between jumps 1 and, and 4 and 5, for example. The timing of the cues will be the same (as she is taking off or over the bar of the previous jump) but that extra stride will give hr a chance to organize the collection. There were a couple of reps where she was trying but ran out of room to get it done (:39, 1:33, 3:06 for example).
Second – move the distraction jump in closer (3 or 4 feet from the wrap jump), so if she doesn’t collect, she will end up going over it. That will really clarify criteria because she can’t be wide and still get rewarded. Also – handle less 🙂 As you move up the line, give the verbal nice and early but don’t FC until AFTER you see the collection. Use the FC as part of the reward: when she collects, you FC and run away to reward. Reward the collection immediately – the collection rewards here were generally after the tunnel, which builds more tunnel love but not necessarily wrap love. When you did a BC to wrap the other side of the bar, you rewarded right away which is correct for building wrap love.
The left and right turns were good AND rewarded in the moment (rather than along the next line) When cuing these and rewarding, you can add more motion and throw The toy before she looks back at you.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I am super happy with her success with this game – it is really hard and she is doing really well. Bear in mind that it is a coordination game (like backing up and other body awareness games) so it will take multiple sessions before she looks fluid and fluent 🙂 Yes, keep using the big handling moves 🙂
On the 2nd rep, you figured out how quick you needed to be and then you were really strong for the rest. When she struggled a bit on the 4 wings, you did a great job breaking it back down to 3 wings then back out to 4 wings.
She did seem to think the step the right to begin was harder and was not releasing immediately – she needed a moment to gather her thoughts LOL!! But she did figure it out and got it! Yay!>>So, I’m not sure if I need to do something different.
I think she just needs more experience with this bizarre game LOL!! You can warm her up with some back chaining – 2 wings for a couple of reps, then 3 wings, then all 4 wings. And maybe stick to one side, one variable per session: she starts on the side of the wing with her right shoulder to the wing and you are facing her on the same side, for a full session. Then you can put yourself on the opposite side for the next session – this might be easier than changing things up in one session.
But overall, I am happy with this! It is a really challenging skill and she is doing a great job!
Tracy
