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Good morning!
I am glad you hurband is doing well after his hip surgery! It sounds like he is almost back to normal! Yay!
>>but got in all the skill sets and Zooms which I LOVED !!!!
Terrific! I had fun watching people do the Zoom sessions – and I think they turned out to have 2 levels: the more advanced groups of dogs (who can give you insight into Mookie and Buddy) and the younger & less-experienced dogs who needed things broken down more (perfect for the pup!!)
And good work teaching the dogs the various tunnel turns – that is a BIG trend nowadays, so we need the dogs to have independent tunnel skills fo rall of the various challenges we will encounter.
>>Mookie tended to knock the bar for the backside jump #8 and he needed me to “clap” to get his attention after jump #8 to get through the box to tunnel entrance #9
That is a HARD turn. I used a soft turn verbal and a brake arm AND a shoulder turn, starting after landing of 7,so the dog was seeing & hearing the cues before he made a takeoff decision for 8. The tunnel skills helped me be standing right at 8 to help the dog too 🙂
>>In his defense my jumps were probably closer than they should have been due to limited space. If I really supported jump #8 he kept the bar up but then I needed to turn his head to go throught the box.>>
If the jumps were closer, you probably needed to start the cues as he was in the air oer 7 so he coud see/hear them when he landed. And, use your position to support the jump as you also deliver the turn cues – too much support will send him off course after it 🙂
>>On a different note, I signed up for Terrific Teeters Introduction for my puppy and looked through the course. It looks great for us.
Fun! It has a ton of different games – if he doesn’t like one of the games, you can skip it and move to a different one LOL!
>>And since my puppy is one class behind your live versions for puppies due to when I got him and his age, when will your MaxPup 3 Agility Foundation Course 047 become a Self Study ??? Please let me know.
It is finishing on the 15th and will become an independent study in the week or two after that.
I hope to meet your pup someday soon too! Great job with summer CAMP this year, and thank you for the updates 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>. What else could I have done? I could leave him on the DW & get on the landing side of 3 for a blind cross & picked him up on my right, but that is a long way to go to get around the wing on 4. >>
Thanks for the maps! It is the AKC version of 3 of the challenges we have been wrestling with this summer:
a) a jump-tunnel discrimination
b) a spot where a RC is the absolute best option
c) obstacles in the handler path so you either need to layer or choose a different option than normalDoing a blind on the landing side of 3 would have set him up to turn left over 4 and go into the exit of 6. A blind between 4 and 5 is a possibility but the teeter is your way so you would either need to do a MASSIVE layer while he is on the DW to have any chance of getting to the blind (I don’t see that as a good option here) or have him hold position on the DW while you keep running for a couple of seconds.
So the best option is to set the RC at 4 with a decel and brake arm if needed, then drive a RC on the takeoff side of 5. This is what you did when you did the fix and go after the off course. The other option is to do a landing side RC after 5 and do a switch away to 6.
The RC on takeoff side of 5 actually put you in great position to be ahead again for the 7-8-9 line!
>>As far as just decel for turns, I can see I was late on it (esp when I sent him back to the tunnel to the turn 7 to 8 😉 ) But it seems like decel would just have me standing there through or have me way behind.>>
You don’t need to decel for all the turns, it really will depend on the context. For hte 7-8 turn here, you were facing forward and moving straight as he was jumping 7, so he was correct to go to 3. You probably didn’t need a decel at 7 – I think less forward motion to 7 will help, and you can turn your shoulders and use verbals – you did that after he landed from 7, so the timing needs to be starting the cues at exit of 6.
So looking at the decels:
yes, the RC on the 4-5-6 line would need a decel to get him turned to face 5 and set the RC line.
No, the turn 7-8 would not need a decel to get him turned to face 8.>>I plan to work through the sequences from the last zoom class >>
the last 2 zooms have useful stuff for this scenario, specifically: the rear crosses and the switch aways! You will be able to sort out which ones need decel, and which don’t 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Sorry for the delay, my internet access has been washed out by storms til this morning. Lots of good work here! I think he was being super responsive to the various cues!
About the dog walk:
It is pretty normal that youngsters have trouble with turns off the RDW. Plus, he was a little off balance on the up ramp on the up ramp on each rep, all sorts of lead changes, so helping him by breaking it down like you did at :55 was perfect. My guess is he doesn’t quite know how to stride this one (it is very bouncy) so he is processing the striding and the whiplash of the board, and not your position or any turn cues. Can the DW be braced? When you watch the video in slow motion, you can see how much it is moving and how he is changing his striding to try to handle the movement.Looking at the opening:
He was reading things really well! A couple of handling suggestions to get tighter lines:
For that first jump, you can either start further back so he can see the wrap info sooner, or start “backwards” by sending him with your left arm & leg to the jump, with you facing 2 – it is like sending him to 1 with you already finished with the FC and on the new side. It is a countermotion game that he will sort out really fast, and then you will get a much tighter turn on 1, which then makes 2-3 and 3-4 even easier. At 2:07, for example, sending him forward got him scoping the line to the tunnel and he didn’t see the rotation til after takeoff, so he adjusted when he landed.For the 2-3 turn: you know I love Blinds but I think the FC at 2-3 (:03, :13, 2:08) is better for him, because it turns your feet to 3 sooner than the BC does. The BC turns your feet and shoulders to the a-frame for a heartbeat so he was wide. A FC instead will then make the turn to 4 tighter because 2-3 is tighter too.
Good job getting the backside at 4! He has some strong independence on that, so try to move forward past the exit wing rather than parallel to the bar – that is why he was heading to the frame on that first rep. You were moving forward a lot better at :17 🙂 His right turn at :19 and later at 2:15 was probably related to the placed toy after the dog walk? It is possible that you were stepping in too much and not turning soon enough… or it is possible that when you stepped to 5, he saw the toy and turned to it. I thought you were VERY early at 2:21 which helped for sure! In slow motion it looked like he might have still had an eyeball on the placed toy?
Nice distance and layering to the dog walk! He needs a soft turn cue on the jump after the frame to get on the DW at :26 (couldn’t really hear what you were saying). And if the verbal alone doesn’t help enough, try a brake arm (opposite arm) to cue more collection too. You had the opposite arm going at :36 and :50 but it was after he landed and was already going wide – the brake arm timing would be no later than exit of the aframe so he can turn before takeoff of the jump.
OMG that teeter at 1:21, perfect 🙂 Ice cream for everyone! Also at 1:37 – that rep can be harder because he knows where you were going and yet: PERFECTION. Double bonus ice cream points for him holding position while you did the BC then released him at 1:51. He *might* have released early at 2:47, so keep throwing the reward back for those great teeters while you are moving.
Wow, the layering after the teeter also looked great – it was a little harder because you were coming in off a RC on the tunnel and he had no questions. Super!!!
The closing was strong! Threadle wrap at 1:59 looked good, add a little more decel so he can collect even more for a tighter turn. But, and you can see this at 2:53 too – I think the threadle wrap to the post turn widened the turn a bit and presented the possibility of going back to the tunnel. A threadle wrap and then a blind cross will tighten the line perfectly.
Great job!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Basically I can drop by an inch at a time and I insert the yoga mat to reduce that a bit and then take it out for the next session if seems ok.
Sounds good!
>>She has been a little concerned about the bang game – at least the version that has me holding the teeter in place at a low height and ask her to hop on and do the target behaviour trom there that we have been doing in class. I don’t think she is comfy with me being over her like that so working on that separately.>>
I call that one of the elevator game, and it is the very last game I add because it is the hardest. For me, the bang game involves the teeter being propped by something else, like this:
She might like it better, less hovering to hold the board.
>>I noticed her doing that standing in place, thought is was very odd.
You call it odd, I call it brilliant LOL!!! And definitely not worrisome. The dogs work out the fastest route and sometimes this self-v-setting is fastest (believe me, I have timed it over and over). She will sort it out 🙂
On the video = yes, the 14″ bar totally makes a difference and that is good! She is doing different behavior turning right versus left as you noticed. She made very good adjustments on both sides, so I am happy with how she did! We want her to be a thoughtful jumper and she is indeed being a thoughtful jumper. YAY!!! So, you can revisit this little decel game maybe once a week. 3 things to add for next time:
– 16 inch bar
– lock the jump bar into the cups, so it doesn’t go flying out if she makes a mistake. She is doing her best to NOT touch the bars, so we can help he rout
– add the ‘turn and burn’ exits, but doing the complete rotation. Rather than having her do the FC back to the tunnel, do the tighter exit. When she is turning to her right, you will FC and run towards the fence. When she is turning to her left, you can do the turn and burn to the left side of the screen LOL! This will be very fun for her and also help encourage her to turn her head into the turns even more.Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The warm ups looked really good! She did well in both directions, didn’t seem to have a side preference. She was definitely zippy when you added the frisbee 🙂 She likes these distance games, so you can add in the motion of the layering right away, so she can see you moving and she will like that too!
>>One of the problems with throwing her discs is she sort of loses her head and will just skip parts – or sometimes all – of the exercise just to get the disc thrown. Of course, that doesn’t work, and we have to try again. However, I do wonder sometimes if that defeats the purpose of getting out her highest value rewards?>>
I agree that throwing the frisbee is harder for mechanics: hers and yours 🙂 But I think it is worth it, because she works with a lot more speed and also she is learning to think and respond, even when super excited. Try to keep you hands lower on the switch aways with the disc, maybe use a softer disc that you can squish up in your hands so it is not as visible or hard to toss?
The first sequence went really well! She had the extra jump at :09 before the tunnel, it is possible that you turned a little later than you needed to, or the jump was set really close due to mud puddles LOL! But the switch away looked great! “Away” is a great choice of verbals, it is very distinct and I think it matches the arm motion really nicely.
On the 2nd run, you turned sooner at :31 so she did not pickup the bonus jump but you were early at :34 with the ‘away’ signal (I know, most of us are never early LOL!) You did the hand signal while she was still in the tunnel, so she had a question. Doing it a step later, when her head and front end are out, will set up a better line. She had no trouble letting you layer and show her the #8 tunnel. Nice!
On the next sequence, she was also good at :55 finding the tunnel, nice shoulder turn there! She was good with the switch away but then missed the 8 jump at 1:03. I think she was reading that as a layer cue, because your shoulder was closed forward. She might need you to open your shoulder to her and make a little eye contact, so get her to come in because it is a bit of a serp line. Nice FC 9-10 there!
I think the timing of the last “away” at 1:10 was the best timing on these – it seemed to make the most sense to her and she was fast & tight there. And also, ignoring the off course and missed jump was great, she stayed fast and focused!
Great job! Fingers crossed for dry weather ahead!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Pattern games – yes, we are working on building value for a couple of the CU games, getting them super strong at home before I take them on the road
Perfect! That is the best approach: teach them at home so they are very recognizable and easy to use on the road.
On the video:
He did well with the first backside! The real question was the 2nd backside…
>> I probably made this a bit hard as a teaching moment,
I think his questions were because you were blocking the line (you were moving on the line he needed to be on, which caused you to block his view of the backside wing) to the 2nd backside so he didn’t know where you wanted him to be. As he exited the first backside, you were saying the backside verbal at :07 and :31… all of the other info (motion, connection, etc) said to go to the tunnel. He even slowed down a bit to double check LOL He did get a reset cookie but it was pretty eventual… give it right away if there is *any* chance that it was a handler error (because as we all know, there is a 99% chance it was a handler error for all of us 🙂 ) I personally used to think that sometimes the dogs were making bad choices and then I would watch the videos… it was always my error, so I go much faster with the reset cookies 🙂
After a reset at :40, he could clearly see the backside wing so he took it immediately. That is the picture he would need to see as he exits the first backside: you far enough ahead that he can see the wing of the backside jump. ideally your line would be to where the wing and bar meet, or even further over to the center of the bar is possible.
At 1:02 and 1:27 , you put wiggled the lotus ball so he didn’t take the tunnel so he followed you until he could see the wing. If you get a chance to play with this again, try getting even further ahead on the first backside to see if you can show the wing of the 2nd backside sooner. Or, you can wrap the first backside – starting on the same wing, have him do a circle wrap to his right and you pick him up on your right to push to the 2nd backside. That will still have the challenging tunnel-jump discrimination, but you will be able to show the wing of the backside sooner.
Nice work here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This is going well too! The broom reward is so funny 🙂 She did well with the wing wraps to the tunnel, and she really liked it when you started in the tunnel and ran to the wing wrap.
For now, plan on giving her a couple of extra steps to every commitment line as we add in the newer concepts. For example, she needed one more step to the tunnel backside at :29 and :48 – it was too far and not quite visible enough for her to realize she needed to go find the tunnel entry – but that extra rep at 1:05 was perfect!
As you mentioned, there was a tiny loss of connection at the end when you drove her past the tunnel entry – but you were strongly connected to get her past the tunnel, she just needed one more step to get around the wing. That is also lack of experience 🙂 All of it is SUPER new to her, so you can give her the extra steps each time you start, then fade those steps out as she develops more and more independence on the lines. That will help her get it correctly on the first rep which is a big confidence booster too.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Yes, short sessions that are fast & fun will keep her energized!I liked how you sandwiched the decel in between lots of run run running 🙂 She definitely liked the running and was doing a great job finding her lines. Yay!!!! The decel looked just fine in terms of the turns/collection, but it looked like she thought it was a touch boring LOL!! So, throw in one decel every now and then, but for now do lots of the running stuff. She was driving into the deceleration a lot better at the end, probably because you threw it in among the more fun running lines 🙂 Great job!!!
TracyGood morning!
Her commitment looks good on all of these decels, so definitely now do the turn and burn exit on all of them – the motion is a big part f the reward 🙂 Stopping and dropping the toy was not as reinforcing and also you were doing a post turn to do it, which actually cued mor e of a soft turn than a wrap.
The turn and burn at :31 was great!So now, looking at timing: she needs to see the decel as she exits the tunnel, so she can organize the turn. On most of the reps, you were moving forward as she exited the tunnel (:36 & :44 & :53 & 1:10 & 1:19), which made the decel late so she was wide. The rep at :47 was my favorite of these: the decel was the most timely here so she was able to organize a great turn. Yay!!! I think on the late reps you needed to send to the tunnel from further away, so you could be at the wing AND decelerated when she exited the tunnel. You were still moving towards the wing as she exited, so she did not get the wrap info as well.
>>On the “go” I should have had the toy out as a target, but forgot.>>
yes, definitely make that a habit, she ran that line with her body forward but her eyeballs looking at you LOL!!!!
>>I have not specifically taught her that, but I have used treat tosses on occasion if she has had “a moment” in the basement training area.
Definitely teach the framework specifically, separately from when she is struggling. Teach it as a fun game, because we cannot use it for resilience work until they understand it as a happy coping mechanism.
Then, when she is having a struggle, the resilience part is VERY easy.
>> Sometimes chasing the treats will get her up and running around again. It’s harder with her since she does not share Didi’s love of cookies over everything else. But maybe I should try this in more of a pattern game when nothing is going on?>>
1000% yes, teach it without anything else going on. If you try to use it when there is something stressful happening, it will not be nearly as helpful for a variety of reasons.
And, since many dogs do NOT reliably love cookies, you can teach it with toys. You can see me use toys on these 2 videos:
I teach these games with food only, toys only, and mixture of food and toys – and they are all taught as foundation games so I have them in the toolbox in case the dog ever has a stressful event or I need to get more engagement.
>>I could certainly try the come to my side, throw toy too and work on a loop. That’s not too dissimilar from some of the toy work we have done.>>
Yep, work up a toolbox full of different reinforcement procedures so that nothing surprises her when you are trying to train something. This can include stuff like a cookie target to toy toss, or a toy toss to cookie reset, or any combination under the sun you can think of. These will become useful for training behavior, as well as excellent coping skills because she will recognize the framework in case something happens that causes a struggle.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! It sounds like California is ROASTING!! EEK!!!!!
We have until the 15th here, but we can go over by a few days, no worries 🙂 I am planning some small space handling sessions for the teenagers 🙂 Stay tuned, I hope to have all those dates sorted out by the end of next week 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Looking at the teeter: she started off with a little question then got SUPER confident by the end. Yay!
>>Do we just continue to drop the height?
yes, very slowly. I would keep her at the same height for 3 or 4 sessions, then drop it the tiniest bit, so she barely notices the difference.
>>Anything I should be aware of as points where she would be more likely to have an issue?>>
If you slice the behavior thin enough, there should be no issues. But bear in mind, that I train the end position and other elements of this all very separately, using the bang game, the teeter between tables you mentioned from your weekly class, the elevator game, etc – it all builds together really nicely.
>>And I assume I don’t label it until the entire picture is in place.
It depends on what you plan your verbals to be. I use an obstacle name and an end position cue: so any time the dog runs up the teeter, I can name it “teeter”. Then when I am working the end position, like on a plank or the bang game, I use the target cue. Eventually it all melds together.
Looking at the decel video:
>>hmm, while standing in place doing it it didn’t really feel like she was deceling on the wraps much at all, looks much better on the video – LOL!
It is because she was not decelerating to set up the turn – but the turn still looked good. Here is what was happening:
After the first rep where she collected on each side, she went to v-setting her line – she was arcing out to then come back in for the wrap, so she could basically do it all in extension. Clever! That tells us she needs a higher bar to jump because the v-set is possible on the low bar but will not be possible on a full height bar in the future. If she was a small dog, we would LOVE the v-set to stay in extension, but alas it is not the best thing for a BC 🙂 What height is she jumping in Kim’s class? I would try these at 14-16″ inches at this point to see what she does. A little v-set is fine but we would like her to rock back into her rear more too.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
He is doing well turning the new direction, and the ‘flip’ verbal sounds nice and different from the other verbals.
You were helping him by stepping in past the tunnel, which is perfect for now. As he gets more comfortable with this cue, you can keep yourself on the other side of the tunnel 🙂
A suggestion about reward:
Because this builds to a layering element and NOT wrapping back to you, change your reward placement even on the wing:
Throw the reward the new direction as soon as he turns his head that way, rather than waiting for the wing commitment or wrapping back to you. He can run past the wing (not all wing cues need to be wraps :)). That will make it easier when you do eventually add a bar in to make it a full jump.One other suggestion:
When there is an error, give a reset cookie or tug, then try again. When he went around the tunnel at :09. it was a skill he didn’t know and by asking him “where is the tunnel” – he took it when you were stationary which is entirely different than when you were trying to move. So the reset cookie prevents frustration while also allowing you to set up the same question, rewarding the behavior he had trouble with on the previous rep.>> Also if you’re heading our way this fall (Oct14ish) let me know if there is a place/person to signup.>>
Suzie just posted the sign up info, it is here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdEISdSEqVpdfOPcXZ8cRFa3ENzX0gzPqzXtoIvflS48D2P_w/viewform?fbclid=IwAR1jTIQO_om1E1ktYdbuR0SSYazqnG92-b6P50fUS24sHS2xlwpngGQHvXAGreat job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
