Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
>>Verbals: I am training a back wrap verbal (“round”) vs. a back side slice “back”. Not sure why on Friday I couldn’t get my verbals out.
In t he new games posted this week, I am emphasizing rehearsals in the walk through, especially of the verbals – my guess is that you are not properly using your verbals in the walk through which is why they are not coming out in the run 🙂 Just saying them quietly as you walk is different that saying them loudly and repeatedly at a run! We start this with short sequences for now – which is good because the heat is pretty awful.
>>For example I needed the Right after the DW, but it is hard for me to concentrate on watching the DW and getting out the next verbal while getting to position (bad at multitasking hehehe).>>
The one thing I know about the RDW is that, on course, you cannot really watch it, you just have to handle and trust it 🙂 Have Linda tell you if he misses or not.
>>I am going to start training a soft verbal, the one Martina uses is “Kenme” and I like it, and then re-train the right and left.
Sounds good! Is her Kenme a 90-degree turn, so there is collection involved (but not as much collected as a wrap?)
Have fun!! Stay cool!
TracyHi!
It sounds like she was going fast and very excited… so the added arousal is why she couldn’t “hear” the verbals. That means we need to add more arousal to her training and also – do you have any group classes she can go to? Practicing around other dogs will totally help!
T
Hi!
On the one jump specs, I was just using the release word from the stay. That is how I started with the 2 jumps, but then as soon as the dog was showing some understanding, I went to some name calls and directionals: left and right.On the sequences, it was mostly left and right.
T
Good morning!
>>I’ll be in boot camp for a long time.
I was in boot camp for a while too, and I return to boot camp each time I start a new dog LOL!
>> Overall she did very well even with really bad toy tosses!>>
I think she liked the bad toy tosses LOL! Very fun to chase!!
The tunnel games looked good! The go reps were strong, and that first left rep was strong too (that first rep of something different is always the hardest after the GO reps but she was listening!!)
And putting it in sequence worked nicely too – the left then the GO looked good!>>used the wrong verbal on her first RC, but motion override for the win.>>
Yes, the panic in your voice helped her understand where to go LOL!
The 2 sharp left turns (with the rear crosses) looked good. The first sharp right turns at :44 and :50 were a little late – it looks like you were waiting longer at the wing before driving the RC on the tunnel, so feel free to get right on her tail there. The last right turn at 1:43 definitely was sooner… but Sprite says “not soon enough” LOL because she was already entering the tunnel at 1:43 when you were juts starting to cut behind her, so she turned left. You can do a couple of those right turn rear crosses by starting ahead of her and then she barely passes you at the tunnel – so she is entering the tunnel and you are highly visible showing the rear cross. I don’t think it is a right-turn issue, because the other rights looked GREAT! So it might be a slight preference for left turns, just needing earlier info. You can also place the toy out on the right cross line to help her out, before she goes into the tunnel.
After all the turns, throw the toy sooner for the first GO rep if it has been a while (and feel free to mix in more go reps)
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Rear crosses are hard for young dogs, because they are entirely cued and trained – and not intuitive at all, like FCs and BCs are.
So the two main elements are:
– drive the RC line so the cue looks entirely different from the wrap
– reward all efforts and reward on the RC line, so even my late cue will help the dog predict the RC. And also, even if my cue was on time, I reward in the correct spot on the new line even if the dog didn’t initially turn the correct direction, because I want him to understand when the crazy momma runs that line, the reward will be in the new direction 🙂So with that in mind – I don’t think his miss on the first rep was an understanding issue, because the cue was really late 🙂 As he was taking off for the right wrap, Mike was still on the wrap line and just beginning to cut in behind him. (You can still reward on the RC line there)
The RC jump might be a bit too close to show him the RC pressure line in time, so you can move it out another 10 feet or so, so you are running to the center of the bar as he is jumping the previous jump.
Placing the toy on the correct side and breaking it down was great to help him, and also you got earlier in your cues and you were showing the RC before he had to make a takeoff decision. Yay!
You can see the timing of the line a bit better when you did the right turn RCs – you were moving to the left wrap wing for a few steps (:49) then as he was just about lifting (:50) you stepped in behind him for the RC.
And you can see him switching the leads around a bit on the last session – for the first few steps, your line was cuing the left wrap so he was prepping for that – then you pressured in just before takeoff so he switched, but this could cause accidental rear crosses if you add a little unintended pressure on that wrap wing during a FC wrap.That is what I call a ‘pull and flick’ rear cross, which will work but also might cause confusion on wraps or shoulder turns the other direction.
So on that side too, even though he was reading the RCs – move the jump a little further away to give yourself more room to set that RC line to the center of the bar. You can also have the toy placed to help him out (and reward anyway even if he turns the wrong way, because it might be a timing question).
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>But definitely learned that if the treats are out with the toy he definitely no longer cares about the toy!
Yes, in the middle of all that food, I can see how the toy would be lower value. You can move further away and throw the toy around to see if moving it further from the food helps!
He did well with his targeting here, definitely getting the idea of offering position to get the game started 🙂 My only suggestion is to put the target down and take your hand off of it, so we can fade your hands out of the picture. If the target might slip around, you can put a bit of tape on the bottom, looped so it sticks to the target and the board – that way you can slap it into position and move your hands away. And remember to use your ‘get it’ cue as the release to get off the board and chase the treat.
Great job!!! Stay cool!
TracyGood morning!
I think this course work looked good! You had a good plan, ran it well, and worked on the pieces you wanted to smooth out. She seemed happy to play the whole time without getting too hot or tired, which is great!
On the video:
Opening:
Looked good! I think the 2-3 jumps where a little spread out so layering was hard, but the bush provided an excellent layering opportunity at the dog walk!
She was *so close* to getting that hard weave entry on the first rep – she needs one more step from you, and that weave game with the wing (in Package 2) to help her find it independently will help too! You took that extra step at 1:19 and at 1:39 and 2:04, and she got it. Yay! She sees to really like her weaves – fast and happy!
On the line from the weaves to the tunnel:
The FC on the jump after the weaves worked well – you can do it one step sooner, when she is still about 3 feet from the jump, so she can adjust her takeoff and then power out after landing.At. :39 you did 2 blind crosses on the jumps before the tunnel. I don’t think you need those, you can just run up the line dog on right after the FC and push her to the tunnel. This is what you did at 2:19 and it worked well – I am not sure why she stopped there other than possibly that she is jumping towards the cookie chair and not happy about turning back to the course.
Yes, at 1:44, you pushed her to the backside so it was fine to stop and reward – but reward immediately, like she was correct, because she was 🙂 I can’t tell in the video if you rewarded or not there, but there was definitely a delay in the reinforcement and she was confused about the stop.
She stopped at :52 and 2:26 after the a-frame – probably moving towards the cookie chair and not wanting to turn back from it.
On the closing line – you can layer that jump between the last tunnel and the ending line, so you can keep moving and show her the line. You went in between the jump and the tunnel and ended up stopping, so stopped too – and then the acceleration pushed her past the jump on the line.
>>I think it was probably due to the fact that the “cookie chair” was off course between jumps 15 and 21>>
I think this was definitely part of it – she was not happy to turn back to the course and she was very happy to run towards the cookie chair! So have a reward hidden in your pocket and, based on where the cookie chair is – reward her for turning away from it and continuing on the course.
One other thing I noticed here: overall, you are very quiet 🙂 She might like more verbals and louder verbals – she picks up speed when you give the verbals so it is worth it to try being louder and talking to her more.
Behind the backs starts:
Oh wow, he is doing really well with the behind the back starts!!!>>I haven’t been successful in getting him to stand in front of me. If I get him to focus he either drops into a sit or down. Do you think it is OK to start from a sit or down or should I work on a stand?>>
It is fine to start from a sit or down, if that is what he offers – he looked very engaged and excited by this game!
>>I am trying to figure out when I should start moving and how. I noticed that he is very intent on moving with me in the direction of my feet so that he isn’t focusing on the jump. I am wondering if I should stand off center of the jump so I can just walk or run straight forward. >>
Yes – line yourself up so that you can get around the jump easily and not have to pull away from it. And as you move forward, be sure to connect a little more – those will both help him have a smooth line to the first jump. On the rep where you noted he was following your feet, he was fine to do that – you were running on that angle and not really connected. So an offset position and a little more connection will smooth that out.I am glad he is feeling good, he looked good here! And yes, the PT person is what I meant by a soft tissue person. Those folks can find the things that X-rays can’t find and that the dog hides from the vet 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I agree, she did a great job finding the entries and staying in!Working the weaves one time, each time you go out there is a fun idea! To build up a lot of confidence, do mostly easier entries and exits… and then very very gradually, build up into harder challenges. That way she will think it is easy and fun the whole time.
For the harder challenges that never look easy, like those rear crosses – you can have the reward placed at the end, and you can show it to her! Then drive her through a tunnel and into the poles, so that you can do anything and she doesn’t have to look at you 🙂Great job! Let me know how she does with the weave training!
TracyGood morning!
She was definitely enthusiastic about the layering and the toys! Nice! I think she likes these lines! It was really funny when she took off and did it on her own LOLShe looked great on all of them. My only suggestion is that when you are doing the rear crosses, you go to your ‘turn’ verbal sooner. You were saying ‘over’ or ‘go on over’ when it was a post turn and also when it was a rear cross, so she was slowing down to see which it was on the rear crosses (voice saying one thing, motion saying something different). So you can maybe tell her over while she is in the tunnel and exiting it if she needs that to commit to the jump, then use your turn verbal before she makes a takeoff decision on the jump so she can power through it.
Onwards to the rest of the sequences, if the weather cooperates 🙂 Great job!
Tracyi!
>>I decided not to use the right / left verbals on the soft turns, I am still deciding if I need to say jump or a new command, maybe that is why I am yelling his name
I think we can train on that a bit more – he doesn’t really collect on the left or right verbals, which might be because they were not specifically trained as collection cues – a soft turn collection cue would be super useful on the jump before the teeter and the jump after the a-frame here on Course 1.
On course 1:
That was a strange off course after 3! You should not need a cross arm there – I can’t really hear what you said but the position/decel should not have cued the off course. My guess is he was looking at horses!
The line after the teeter had a little too much handler pressure towards the jump before the poles on the first run, which turned him away… right into the horses. You did NOT have any handler pressure at 1:41, you turned directly to the poles, so I think it is just horse distraction.
The send to the wrap and the blind cross up the line to the tunnel looked great each time!!
He is one-hitting the a-frame, is he supposed to hit twice on the downside?
On the exit of the last tunnel, he hesitates slightly then carries on – keep calling him or giving him the jump cue so he knows where to find you 🙂
Course 2:
Nice opening! He did really well finding the weaves with all the layering! And the FC on the 2 jumps after the DW looked great, your position and timing were all super strong! You were not quiet as connected when you started there at 3:28 so he ended up on the teeter. But when toy rain into it again at 3:55, it was perfect again 🙂On the backside circle in front of the tunnel :at 2:48, you decelerated and turned forward to the front
You drove into it better at 2:56 but you were all the way across the bar – you can run forward to where the wing meets the bar the whole time without letting up on the pressure. Then… don’t praise him, just give the next cue (which is praise of a different sort). The praise plus you being all the way across the bar (which is the positional cue for the slice) caused him to drop the bar at 2:57.Yo can see the positional cue at 3:17 even better – by moving to the far wing there, it looks like you are setting up for a German turn, o he really had to adjust before takeoff when you showed him it was a circle wrap!
You moved into a better position at 3:59 and that really helps him set up for the turn.
You held back a bit on the last rep at 4:15, showing that serp/German position – so he slowed down to wait and see what it was (clever LOL!!)
Question: is “back” your verbal for circle wraps only, or all backsides? I scrolled through your thread here and can’t find it – if it is for both, you might consider having separate verbals so he knows sooner if it is a slice or a circle on the backside. I use “back” for slices on the backside and ‘digdigdig’ for circles.
Doing it as a threadle is really hard because of the turn needed on the previous jump, but it is a definite possibility! As you keep building ups your soft turns, a soft turn verbal there followed by the threadle could work really nicely!
And then once he got the backside, the ending line looked great 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Thanks for the link!
Continuing on the obsession for getting her to drive away from you:I liked how you reward the first: rep and at :37 throwing the ball forward as you rotated and left. That was great! And you can see her really driving ahead at :37 and at the end, into the wrap.
The 2nd rep was not as good in terms of reward placement, because the ball was placed for catching up to you and not passing you And at the end, you kind of ran out of throwing room LOL but you can get closer to the wrap jump and then reward for her passing you to the 2nd to last jump (throwing it past the last jump, rather than near you at all).Great job! Keep going with the reward placement for driving away from you, I think we are seeing a difference already!
Tracy
Hi!
>>He missed the entry the first time and Stacy’s comment was I rotated away from the direction he was going and had me make sure to turn toward the direction he was going to weave. It worked. So he needed more handling support for the soft sided weave entry? Makes sense, and the little wing game will help reduce the need for that. On the video, you converged a little then rose back, so he was confused. But that also a training thing to work on, the handler motion shouldn’t matter there.
>>The hard thing is the last part. It was a 180 send to a backside slice The course continues on with a left turn ahead so I wanted to be on the left side and push for the back side. First time he got it, second not so much. Next time in we worked that piece and she thought the better option was to call in on a threadle to the take off side then blind after the jump to get on the left side of your dog, It worked better, but what I learned was at speed with a shallow approach to a back side slice we don’t do as well as with other choices. >>
That was right at the very end, yes? The bind before it was a little late and then you never quite got connection – note your right arm swinging forward which turns your chest to the front of the bar – so even if the blind before it is late, you can keep your wings in (arms in tight to you) and get a very quick strong connection to push him to the backside.
The threadle is also a great way to do it and might be easier to time 🙂
T
Hi!
Hope your weather is not too hot today! This video is marked private so I can’t see it – can you reset to unlisted? Thanks 🙂
TracyHi!
This session went SUPER well, actually! Serps are hard for the dogs!! And you were emphasizing the mechanics of connection beautifully.>>Watching the video I had started to close my shoulder and move that right arm.
Yes – at :20 an :45, you closed your shoulder and stepped in, which she read as pressure to the backside. Good to know! You can be a tiny bit further from the jumps and also yes – don’t close your shoulder 🙂 Also for now – angle the jumps slightly so that she still sees the gap but the backside is harder to push to, and the front is easier to see. When you add left & right verbals versus threadle verbals, the issue will go away but also, herding dogs are knowing to pop to the backside on pressure – so the angle of the serp jumps can be really helpful.
You helped her by putting the wings together – If you are going to put them that close together, lower the bar to 4 inches because the jumping gets crunchy even at 12” when they are that tight.
>>So,on the serp you look at landing and then what? Do you keep that shoulder back until they’ve taken the next jump?
You can keep the serp upper body position as you run (with connection to her as she lands) until you see her turn and look at the next jump – rather than trying to cue the next jump – and then you can ‘release’ the position and resume normal running.
>>I suspect this is a connection issue as well?
Actually… it is not 🙂 It was the shoulder movement and stepping that she read as backside pressure (and that is fine because that is basically what we would do if we wanted the backside there 🙂
>>Unfortunately, I don’t have great peripheral vision so that might be part of my issue.
That is why I like the toy across the body connection style – it is far easier for the dog to see and I don’t really need to see anything 🙂 I run in sunglasses a lot because I can’t really see in very bright sun, and sunglasses are bad for peripheral vision. So when I changed my connection mechanics, the dogs could see what they needed to see and then everything smoothed out really quickly. I think you might be in the same boat!
Great job here :) Tracy
Hi!
The serpng is going really well!!!! Normal position is great!! You can move to the sequences and because that adds more challenge, you might want to angle the jumps a tiny bit. One thought on the toy: I know she loves tat toy but dropping it so she has to stop like that. From high speed and turns is bad for her shoulders – does she like to scoop up a hollee roller and keep moving? Or have a big toy like a hollee roller that you can tie to a leash so you can drop it and keep it moving – it is better for their bodies to move in and out of the toy and just scoop it up, rather than have to stop hard to grab it.Great job! Onward stop the harder serp games!
Tracy
