Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi! Glad the weather is cooler!
Video 1:
Yes, more connection on the blinds is good but also – different way to connect. Trying to use your dog side arm next to you doesn’t show the connection. Showing the reward across the body will open up the connection a whole lot more: start with the reward in the dog-side hand than after you do the blind, show him the reward in the same hand, but across your body so the reward goes on the opposite hip. That will open up the connection while you keep moving. If you try to connect with the dog-side hand forward or at your side, you will either have wider turns or you will have to swing your arm waaaay back to make eye contact which messes up your forward running.
Here are more specifics on that:
Reward across the body
Also – you need to make a clearer connection when he exits the tunnel. At :43, you broke connection and looked forward to the wing, so he read it as a blind and switched sides. It is coincidence that the toy was in that hand – it was a handler error so reward your dog! You did not reward and marked him as incorrect by stopping, which is frustrating for him. Since we WANT the dogs to read blinds crosses, your job now is to assume that all errors in handling are handler errors and reward the dog every.single.time. Then figure out how you can do something differently to fix the error (the answer is almost always connect better). If you blame him by not rewarding, you will not improve your handling!
The same thing happened at 1:6 (disconnection after the tunnel) and there was no toy there, so he is clearly not just looking for the toy. Then you walked away from him… which is a punishment marker to the dog and very deflating. Your new mantra is: reward ALL the reps, no matter what happens! Then at 2:01, you didn’t quite connect either – so rather than tell him that you were late (he knows LOL!) get that reward out and flying ASAP. You were tapping it on the ground and then he walked away, sniffing. So every time something happens, correct or not, I want you to keep going and reward as if it was perfect, with a flying reward. Stopping and turning to him and leaning over is not engaging with the toy (similar thing happened at 1:00, but then you got the frisbee moving a lot more and he re-engaged.)
As he exits the tunnel, have your dog-side arm (right arm) all the way back and down to his nose and make a very direct eye contact to show him the line. And on the second blind – keep your arms in tight and make eye contact – you like to try to connect with your hand moving forward and looking forward, but when he is behind you he simply can’t read it and doesn’t know where to be.
The double blinds in the 2nd video were far more connected! And nice rewarding there – I want to you reward EVERYTHING like that. The ladders are also off t oa really good start! And check out the reward at the end – reward the same exact way when you mess up 🙂 Now, you might be thinking: “how do I know if it is a human error or a dog error?” Just assume that is human error for now, because there is a 99% chance of it being human error. And if in that incredibly rare occasion that it is a dog error? No worries, he is getting paid for his efforts so it is still worthwhile to reward him.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Glad the weather is cooler!
Video 1:
Yes, more connection on the blinds is good but also – different way to connect. Trying to use your dog side arm next to you doesn’t show the connection. Showing the reward across the body will open up the connection a whole lot more: start with the reward in the dog-side hand than after you do the blind, show him the reward in the same hand, but across your body so the reward goes on the opposite hip. That will open up the connection while you keep moving. If you try to connect with the dog-side hand forward or at your side, you will either have wider turns or you will have to swing your arm waaaay back to make eye contact which messes up your forward running.
Here are more specifics on that:
Reward across the body
Also – you need to make a clearer connection when he exits the tunnel. At :43, you broke connection and looked forward to the wing, so he read it as a blind and switched sides. It is coincidence that the toy was in that hand – it was a handler error so reward your dog! You did not reward and marked him as incorrect by stopping, which is frustrating for him. Since we WANT the dogs to read blinds crosses, your job now is to assume that all errors in handling are handler errors and reward the dog every.single.time. Then figure out how you can do something differently to fix the error (the answer is almost always connect better). If you blame him by not rewarding, you will not improve your handling!
The same thing happened at 1:6 (disconnection after the tunnel) and there was no toy there, so he is clearly not just looking for the toy. Then you walked away from him… which is a punishment marker to the dog and very deflating. Your new mantra is: reward ALL the reps, no matter what happens! Then at 2:01, you didn’t quite connect either – so rather than tell him that you were late (he knows LOL!) get that reward out and flying ASAP. You were tapping it on the ground and then he walked away, sniffing. So every time something happens, correct or not, I want you to keep going and reward as if it was perfect, with a flying reward. Stopping and turning to him and leaning over is not engaging with the toy (similar thing happened at 1:00, but then you got the frisbee moving a lot more and he re-engaged.)
As he exits the tunnel, have your dog-side arm (right arm) all the way back and down to his nose and make a very direct eye contact to show him the line. And on the second blind – keep your arms in tight and make eye contact – you like to try to connect with your hand moving forward and looking forward, but when he is behind you he simply can’t read it and doesn’t know where to be.
The double blinds in the 2nd video were far more connected! And nice rewarding there – I want to you reward EVERYTHING like that. The ladders are also off t oa really good start! And check out the reward at the end – reward the same exact way when you mess up 🙂 Now, you might be thinking: “how do I know if it is a human error or a dog error?” Just assume that is human error for now, because there is a 99% chance of it being human error. And if in that incredibly rare occasion that it is a dog error? No worries, he is getting paid for his efforts so it is still worthwhile to reward him.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is going well, he is definitely getting the idea! You can reinforce smaller pieces of the behavior – if he puts one foot in position, or is a little off to the side, you can get the target in and start the cookies. That way you can shape your way to the final position rather than wait for him to be perfect (because that frustrates him a bit). So if one foot goes into position, you can totally put the target in place. Same if he is a little angled towards or away from you – the target goes in at the proper position.
You probably don’t need to do as long of a session, that is a TON of food for a small dog and also it gets very repetitive. So rather than 5.5 minutes in one place, set a timer for 2 minutes, then break it off. Then in a different place, do another 2 minutes. That makes it less repetitive and also allows him to begin to generalize to different environments.
Great job! Onwards to the handling videos!
TracyGood morning!
The FCs and the spins are looking good! She was not driving that hard to the wing – was it super hot? She was worming with focus but not quite as fast going to the wing as normal. That made it harder to time the FCs and spins, because she was a little stickier. So with that in mind, you can cue the wing and when she goes to it – throw the reward to her after the wing rather than after the tunnel. With young dogs, value is frequently shifting so it might be that the value is on the tunnels here (she was quite speedy going to the tunnels after the wings!) and balancing in a bunch of rewards for the wings will really help bring the speed back for that.
For the tight blinds – practice it a few times without her – the trick is to remind yourself to turn towards the middle wing (away from her) and then reconnect on the new side. That will help make them feel different than the spins :) Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Good question!
>> I understand we should use the dog side arm to indicate that the dog come in and take the jump. But I’m wondering if this will be confused with the threadle jump slice arm, which is also the dog side arm. I know we’ll be using a different verbal for the two maneuvers, but I’m wondering the physical cues are different enough? Thanks!>>
using the dog-side arm is generally fine and the dogs read the differences with no problem. The serp arm is held out to the side, and the threadle arm is generally swung back a bit, like swinging open a door. That motion plus the verbal and different position relative to the jump (serp position between the uprights versus threadle position at the gap on the threadle entry side) help the dog understand the differences. Some people do use a cross arm on the threadles if they feel the dog can’t really tell the difference.
Tracy
Good morning!
>>So I’m basically not getting the connection back on any of the BC, FC or wraps! Is that correct? I need more upper body rotation back and to get rid of my arms? >>
Well correct, yes, but it is just the change in mechanics of getting the muscle memory of that toy across the body. So it is opening up your dog side shoulder after a side change, dog-side arm reaching w and back to her nose and for now, Avery direct eye contact. The toy (or cookie) across the body and on the opposite hip is that way to pattern the muscle memory – start it slow then get faster and faster… and do it all the time 🙂
>>Also, the decel eludes me. Again, if I understood my path better than maybe that would help.
For now – prioritize the connection. Don’t worry about the path, because if you path is roughly right, then the connection will make it work beautifully. And your path is better than roughly right, it is pretty strong! But what is happening is that you are looking forward to path and not focusing on the connection which is the more important piece. So for now… lay a line on the ground from wing to wing (or a line to not pass when you need to not go past the wing on a wrap) but other than that? Don’t worry about path or decel. They are secondary to the connection – and when the connection is in place, path and decel are going to be very easy. And also don’t worry about whether she is turning perfectly or not – again, this will come with connection. So – emphasize the connection and then the rest will fall into place very very quickly and easily.
>>I hear parallel the dogs path, but we don’t really do that or I’d be running a V. I need to send to the pinwheel then run a diagonal toward the outside wing, correct? This is where video with paths drawn would be so helpful. You are HERE, but should be THERE!>>
For now – don’t worry about any of this because it is directing your focus towards the path and not on the connection. Path won’t help her but connection sure will 🙂 Take a long line and run it from wing to wing so you can roughly see where to be, and just think about connection back to her with the reward-across-the-body mechanics.
She is doing really well with the bang game here! If the goal here is that she leaps into position with all 4 on right at the end, you can subtly tweak the position of the find it cookie – when you throw it far with your right hand, she comes back with a lot of speed was was tending to lose her balance jumping on – she would over-shoot the board and step off. So try a little less distance there. On your left side, she would get on the board in different places, jumping on higher up and walking down, so you can toss the cookie more on a perpendicular line to the contact zone, so she can approach it more directly to the end.
Great job! Let me know what if the connection ideas make sense as the top priority.
Tracy
Hi!
This all looks really good!!!The toy on the ground for the Go is looking good – make that a lifestyle for now, where either it is there in advance or someone throws it crazy early, to keep her driving forward.
RCs are looking better, I think they look better when you get on her RC line almost immediately, even before you pass the wing of the first jump after the tunnel – this is more like what you did at :23 – no need to face straight forward at all!
The FC wraps are definitely looked better too! Now let’s play with timing – start your decel as she is lifting for the first jump, not when she lands – that will be her ideal timing eventually.
Backside looks good too! You might not have to travel as for across the bar to the backside wing when you show her the pressure that early. And they looked really different from the RCs, which looked different from the FCs, so she looked pretty perfect!
Great job! Hope yo car staying cool!
TracyHi!
>>Between Monday and today’s session, it also became very clear to me that I didn’t understand what you meant by keeping going if there’s an error. I’m not sure how I am supposed to keep the sequence going if there’s a mistake or exactly what I should be doing if he doesn’t execute the wrap. Can you explain more?>>
In sequencing, if there is an error – like he misses a jump, or takes the front instead of a backside, or goes wide… just keep running the sequence as if it was al correct, then reward somewhere later on and in flow. So in this situation, you can run to the next wing or if he is facing the tunnel, run to the tunnel, reward, then figure out what happened. Young dogs mirror the handling and the training, so if something goes wrong, we carry on, reward, and fix on the next rep from the outset. Otherwise, it becomes very stop and go, and even when you are cheerful, he knows something was wrong but not necessarily how to be right.
So on the video – when he didn’t finish the wrap on the first wing at :20 and :41, no worries, run to the 2nd one, do a FC, reward in flow. Praising was part of it problem – when he was about to get it right, you started cheering. The cheering is no different from the cheering when you are delivering the reinforcement so he went to you (correctly). So remember: just the facts, ma’am, no cheering while he is working 🙂
In general in the outdoor session, you were trying to keep going and that was good! Then on the next rep – make a plan where there is less motion and you get the toy in immediately on the exit/landing side of the wing. You can plop it in behind you as you move forward, as soon as he looks at the wing and has passed you.
You can see the timing in the basement session: you were waiting for him to finish and that is too hard for now. As soon as he looks at the wing, as he just begins to turn, you can throw the reward behind you so he doesn’t slow down or even look at you – just throw it in there as you continue to move forward 🙂 You were beginning to do that towards the end, and he was getting better and better with his commitment 🙂 You can even leave the MM there, if you think he will be able to pass it on the way to the wing. Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I feel your pain about the heat, the forecast where I am competing the weekend is for 100 degrees tomorrow EEEEK!!! We are indoors, at least, mostly air conditioned but being in the RV and walking the dogs is HOT.
First video:
The tight blinds are hard! You are doing well here – try to keep your arms in tighter as you do them, it makes you quicker to show the connection 🙂 And also, try connecting across your body so that you are not trying to connect with the dog-side arm after the side change, dogs need the eye contact and don’t really target to the next hand. Here is what I mean by reward across the body to get the great connection on these blinds:
Also, that will get the toy out of the dogsled hand after the cross – she is not sure after the cross is the toy (which is right in front of her) is for grabbing or not as you send to the middle wing, she leaps for it a few times.
Her commitment to the middle wing on the FCs and the spins looks fabulous!Double crosses are even harder – this was totally not a mess! You had to sort out the timing and connection and by :53 it was already better. You got some really nice ones at the end!
Definitely try these as a hands-free approach 🙂 The trick to the tight blinds is the connection, so the more you keep your hands and arms tight to your side with your elbows bent, the quicker you can make the first and second blind. And reward her for all errors… they are all handling errors so she is just reflecting what she sees you do, so she can get paid for everything – otherwise she slows down and the doesn’t help the timing. And you can also reward across the body on these, with a toy in each hand to work the double crosses 🙂Ladders – these looked great! Her commitment to the circles looks strong in both directions – only one questions from her at :40, when you left with good timing but it was too hard for now. I am not sure if it was too hard because she was hot, or too early for her current understanding. She was perfect with commitment on all the others, so you can re-visit the one where you left sooner (as soon as she passed you and looked at the wing, you moved forward, which is correct!) and as you move forward, look behind you and throw a reward back to build up the understanding of yes, she can commit while you run harder.
Great job here! Stay cool!!
TracyHi!
That sounds like a blast! And I think you got out of NJ before this insane heat wave: I am near Harrisburg PA and the forecast is for 98 today and 100 tomorrow. EEK!!!! Hoe you are all staying cool!Double crosses are hard for sure! You were smart to set it up in the shade 🙂
>> I was the best timing wise with DancR (makes sense she is my primary agility dog right now)
This makes total sense, because the dogs who understand the double crosses will respond really easily. Baby dogs need us to be perfect which is SO HARD!!!!
When you are sending to the wing from a decelerated position, the FC-BC is the better choice – the difference between the 1st two reps here tells us that on a send, you can easily push off into the FC and get great commitment and a great turn. After the BC element, you don’t need to push him back to the next one, he will read it based on the motion and connection. Pushing him back at :10 almost sent him to the middle wing 🙂
Same at :24 and 1:02 and 115 about the send leading to a great FC! Be sure to keep your wing in (arms in) to make that clear connection to get him through the gap – you were looking at him, but with a high arm and short dog, he didn’t read the side change into the gap.
I think on these reps you were handling the FC-BC more as a “spin” where you do move through it very quickly with no really strong connection after the FC. Try to think of the 2 crosses as more distinct, more of a Flind: Front then blind. The front need to be finished and he needs to have made the side change which is more of what you did at :09 and 1:23.
Nice double blind at 1:33! You were not quite quick enough t 1:53 and the last rep because you were so far ahead and had to decel, then try to whip through the BC really fast.
So for the double blinds, try to take out the send element so you are moving the whole time. To do this on this setup, move with him into the tunnel and run nearer to the tunnel the whole time, so you are barely ahead when he exits – that way you can move to the wing without a send or stopping, and that should make it feel more comfy and like you have more time to get it done.
Great job here! Try those again when it is cooler out, no need to try it til it is not insanely hot 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>> He seems much more willing to take the treat on the teeter versus off of it.
My guess is that the value of chasing the moving teeter overrides the value of the treat, so when he is off the teeter – it could move! But when he is on the teeter? Nothing to chase because it is not moving 🙂
>>Maybe a piece of duct tape… I used the tape method with my TFT and the target coaster with my pap and other BC.
Maybe an elevated tape with a wood slat under it, so he has something really salient to step his front feet onto for now? Was the coaster off the edge of the board? You can try both and see which produces better position 🙂
>>I also forgot to mention yesterday that for some of the reps I will do a front cross and for others, I will lead out a little bit from the end of the teeter before I release him. I have not yet tried a rear cross since he’s not that comfortable with them yet even on the flat.>>>
That is fine! And you can have a reward placed as a focal point when you add the rear cross – squeeze cheese smeared on the target or something to give him a forward focus as you rear cross. But there is no rush to add those, we want him driving all the way to the end before we add more 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>I just can’t seem to get the BC right and I can tell I’m not running the correct line, but I’ve no idea where I’m supposed to be running.
Actually.. your timing of starting the blind crosses was FABULOUS each time!!!
So two things to help:
About the lines:
On thing you can do to help run the lines is to take a long, flat line and lay it on her perfect, ideal line. That is the line you will want to run on (then get off of) in the blinds.
So in this case , with the blinds – her line is from the inside wing of the pinwheel jump to the center of the bar of the next jump. You can get on that line in the middle as you do the blind, then move past it and across it, to get to the outer wing and off her line. When she went to the backside, it looks like you were still on her line so she was correct to push to the backside (as that is what the backside cue would look like) Much better line at 1:34!! And she read it really well.
About the wider turns… put yourself into connection boot camp LOL! No matter how perfect you timing is, if she cannot see the new connection, then she cannot read a side change, and that is what was happening here.
Practice the connection mechanics (showing the toy across your body with the opposite arm laying it on your dog-side hip) every time on every blind for now. Every one til it becomes muscle memory – without it, you default to arm at your side which closes the shoulder forward and blocks the connection, so she goes wide. Timing was great on the BC at :36 and :49 and 1:18, but the connection was not visible to her. She was able to start turning before the pinwheel jump but she couldn’t find the side change after it so went wide on landing.
I thought you had great timing better connection on the other side (:59 and 1:09 ) so her lines were automatically better…. But getting the muscle memory of the connection mechanics will really help.
I had to totally put myself in connection mechanics boot camp for a while, when Voodoo was younger. It totally fixed the problem I was having because it got the connections into my muscle memory and fixed the other issues that I was having. So when working blinds, don’t worry as much about the line after the blind: plan on where to hold the toy and how to move it to your opposite hip (which will now be the dog-side hip) as you finish the blind to practice the connection.
>>Sprite is turning but she’s not really collecting.
Don’t worry too much about her turns right now – if you do it, she does it 🙂 Her collections (or not) are mirroring handling, so it is all great info. For example, the wraps –
At :04 you were past the wing, so she correctly jumped long. You can use a line for yourself there, from as a ‘do not cross’ line so you don’t run past it – and remember to decelerate if you are ahead so you don’t go past it the wing (decel in general really helps the wrap cues too!) At :14 you were in a very good spot but didn’t decel (ran hard then rotated) but compare that to :30 – SUPER nice position near the wing and not past, with decel… and she was lovely on her turning 🙂
Great job here! And welcome to connection mechanics boot camp 🙂 Tracy
Hi! Yes, the bigger louder cues really help, especially when they start before she takes off for the jump before the layering. Going to the weaves was just fine LOL! Arm position is less important, it is more about how early you can give the big cues to send her before going into the layering.
You can also place the reward after the first jump – she is not entirely she that she is correct and trots to it a bit. Having the reward there will really help – you can put a Manners Minder there, so when you give the big OUT OVER you can click it… and leave it there for when you ask her to turn to the tunnel instead of the layering, and then click it when she does the tunnel 🙂
And then it can be a little off to the side, and you can click the MM after she does the turn away on the red jump and goes back out to the line.
Great job! Fingers crossed for a break in the heat – going to be 100 degrees here today!!! EWWWW!!!
Tracy
Hi!
I am so glad you had fun at camp 🙂Good work on the weaves here – yes, just letting him see the weird wing was a good idea 🙂 I think the wing was helping him and you can definitely add more of your motion going forward. He is weaving head-up on the reps where you were not moving, so having a jump our a wing out ahead will help him, and you can throw the reward while he is still weaving. The head-up is usually a sign that they are not sure of where to look… which is why he had trouble with the countermotion when you were going the other way. Having a focal point for him will really help – either a placed reward or a jump or something to look at, so he doesn’t try to look at you 🙂
Great job! How did Wager do with this setup?
Tracy
