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Good morning!
Min did well here!
On the first sequence, note how she is turning left before turning right on 4 and 8 – at :09 /:30/:54 and :18/:38/1:03/1:15, your running line was toward the left-wrap wing for a few steps, so she was lining up for that and then switched out when you pushed in, You can be running towards the center of the bar there the whole time, so she won’t zig-zag.
The layering was hard for her! I think a bit more explosive motion then the big loud verbals really helped her at 1:06!!! You were quieter and turning towards the tunnel sooner on the previous reps so she came with you.
The ending line looked good! You can try sending to the 8 backside from further away, so that you don’t have to pull away as much to get 9, making a smoother line to 10 on landing side of 9.
O the 2nd rep – a little disconnection at 1:42 got you the threadle instead of the backside and the tunnel send was hard for her on verbals alone! That is a good one to work – yes your physical cue the first time pulled away but ideally the tunnel verbal overrides that, especially when there is a dog walk in the way 🙂
Kaladin reviewed his videos overnight and did a great job with the jump- tunnel discriminations 🙂 Good boy!
Interesting that he turned to his right at :47 – I didn’t see anything in the handling that created it, so he was probably a bit on layering autopilot there (I mean, he did do that line about 10,000 times recently LOL!) Great job also working it the other direction, he did really well turning towards you for the right wrap and away for the left turns! Yay!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Looking at this mainly from the perspective of driving ahead and getting her off of you a bit more:Be super aware of every reward placement. Most of them still come really close to you, so to shift the value to lines away from you, always throw the reward out away on a line while you run the other direction – even if you are stopping for any reason, still have the reward super far from you. You might ned to be creative if there has been a blooper 🙂
O the very first rep, I liked how you wanted to handle it. That first jump is a great place to reward driving away from you on the release – you can have someone else throw, or you can place a reward to jump start the behavior.
Doing it the other way on rep 2 worked but tat was all riving towards you not away (and the ball for 3 came for driving towards you
Good reward for the 7 tunnel – try not to be there at the ball when she gets it, you carry on to the next line.
Looking the 9-10-11-12 line – at 1:20 you rewarded the tunnel exit with you anding still and right there… change that to rewarding her driving ahead to 11, throwing the ball as she lands from 10 and is looking ahead.
The in in threadle at 1:32 was late and the physical cue did not support it, I would definite y reward her effort there with a treat or toy. The timing of the verbal was earlier at 1:46 but your physical cue of turning your hips and running line to the jump was too soon for her level of understanding (she dogs will still squeeze themselves in there, but most will not). Your hips and running line need to be forward til she has reached the backside commitment plane, which is about a foot from the wing (like what you did at 2:14 and at :16 and :34 on the 2nd video) Those were both handling errors, she would have had to run through you on the 2nd on in particular, so reward her! It is deflating to stop and go back when it was a handling error not a dog error.
Also, you can let her drive ahead from the a-frame for a thrown reward and not threadle the jump – since we are trying to emphasize driving ahead, feel free to change the challenges to get her on big massive lines ahead of you 🙂
The part 2 and part 3 videos are the same link, can you repost part 3?
Nice work here! Looking forward to part 3!
TracyHi!
>>I did win the food races twice in a row, and it did make her quite determined the third time. She really struggles to pick up a toy that is on the ground, even a tug, so it’s a challenge to find something she can grab while running. She doesn’t love toys that much and basically disengages after a rep or two. She likes the ball because it’s moving, I think.>>
The best way to get the driving ahead will be some type of thing that can move and be a lot further away (very hard to do that with a food toy) or you can grab and dance around with – I think the food has good value but I would like to go higher value and into something toy-like, because food rewards already have a conditioned response of being near you (due to the zillions of times the dogs have gotten good from our hands, from birth to everyday life to sports). So what about a giant hollee roller with a tennis ball in it? Or Jolly ball? If she disengages quickly… do far fewer reps. Do one rep and, win or lose, no worries – the next dog gets a turn (the glory of this is that your puppy and MC can also have turns of this game in various stages, and watching should fire her up for her turn). And you can use a moving ball (I have used the giant Kong tennis ball toys) and you can throw it – then it will roll a bit when it lands, so you can relate her and race before it stops moving.
>>I was worried that if I didn’t lead out, then she wouldn’t really be passing me. How close should I be when we start? If we’re starting together, how does she learn to pass? This is such a frustrating problem.>>
I guess I am looking at it differently, first just driving ahead, splitting it more. So she is not passing you – she is simply driving ahead for now because she is not comfortable with that yet. And split it where she is not behind you, so she doesn’t (yet) have to pass a place of value (you :)) before driving ahead. Let’s get the driving ahead stronger before we add the distraction of starting behind you on course and having to pass you then drive ahead, which has more elements. Also, if she has to pass you, we run the risk of her getting next to you then seeing you throw the reward, which rewards her for getting next to you more than driving past you.
Let me know if that makes sense! Onwards to the videos 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Yes, the classes were so fun this week! The 2 groups (Weds and Thurs) were so completely different and that made it even more fun 🙂
Excellent point about the tunnels – package 3 is done but feel free to replace the tunnels with jumps at the entry and exit. The smaller sequences are built from a very similar setup to the live class setup, if that tunnel is still indoors in your glorious A/C?
I will definitely limit the tunnel hauling now that we all seem to live in places that are hotter than the surface of the sun, thanks for the suggestion!
TracyGood morning!
Youtube definitely has a mind of its own!!! This was a very fun session 🙂
He did well finding the backside of the tunnel, no problem, followed by the victory lap LOL! You can put the toy on a longer line so it is still there when you need to place it, but you have the other end and he can’t have big adventures with it 🙂
Adding the wing definitely was harder but he thought out through and nailed it – GOOD BOY! And he was more confident about it on the next rep, even with the wing further away. Very nice! Yo can try doing tunnel – wing – tunnel and see how he does with it 🙂
Have fun, stay cool!
TracyGood morning! He did really well here!!
The reward placement out on the line really helped him sort it out! To help him immediately go into the layering before he sees the reward placement, you can start the loud forward cues before he takes off for the yellow jump, just after exit of the first jump – you were doing it when he was over the bar or landing, making the layer harder at first because he had to decide if he should turn or extend on the line.
You said it earlier at 1:01, and that was more of the correct timing! Also, he might find the GO verbal easier here to put him in big extension approaching the bar before the layering, versus the left for into the tunnel.
In your next session, add even more motion: As you throw the reward – keep moving up the line parallel to the tunnel. You were stopping on the sending (probably to throw the reward) so now add back in the motion, so he learns to stay on his line while you are hustling 🙂 Same goes for when you want the tunnel – using the same exact motion, change the verbals and see if he can process the difference.
Great job here! Let me know how he does with more motion :) Tracy
Hi! Lots of great parts on these, and just a couple of hard spots as you mentioned.
On the German turn at 3 – she knows to go to the backside but not fully yet to default to taking the jump, so that is a training spot! She got it the 2nd time and also in the next session so on the first rep of German turns in practice , always throw the reward in to the landing spot as you move through (as she is coming around the backside wing) so the value of the bar overrides the value of the bugs LOL
This will also help on the German turn before the weaves later in the course, so you can totally trust her commitment and do the blind nice and early.
Great job on the big line around the back to the dog walk,. And she did a great job finding the backside on 9 when you sent and left, in both sessions! Nice!
About that tunnel threadle… yep, you are not going to get the BC before the tunnel unless she can do the DW and backside without you going past the center of the dog walk – definitely a fun thing to train!
To handle the threadle, you can commit her to the 11 jump and decel as she is landing from 10, then turn towards her with your upper body (and maybe even feet for now) as she is taking off for 11 to get the turn towards you. Beca8se she is still learning this skill break it down to just one jump and the tunnel then back chain it (more like what you started at 1:15, but she will need to see it more before you add back the full line).
We had a good camera angle on why she was not committing to 11 at 2:27 (ad 3:30 from behind) of the second session – not enough connection. Yes, you can do one. more step on those moments but also increased connection will help a lot. As she landed from 10, you pointed forward with your dog side arm and turned your feet and shoulders away. You were looking at her… but the arm moving forward blocked her view pf the connection so she went with motion. It sounds counterintuitive but having your arm back and not forward will totally help get that send.
On the German before the weaves – the blind begins as she soon as she arrives at the entry wing – you were looking at her over your right arm for too long, so she was correct to land on your right side – it is a total trust moment that they will take the jump so you can begin the blind. You got it at 2:49 in the second session, because you started the blind earlier, so she could see the side change before landing. You can totally be close to the wing, otherwise she has to go around you to find the weaves. At 4:09 and 4:12, you were looking over your right too long so she (correctly) went to your right side Ideally you are looking over your left side before she takes off.
She had a little question on the wrap at the end at 2:59 and 4:23 – it was the pointing forward again – you were pointing forward to the bar which turns your shoulders, so she looked at you to figure out the line. That is another arm back, strong eye contact moment as you move to the jump so she can see where your shoulders are pointing.
Because these courses are so huge and the temperatures have been so insane, you don’t need to run them multiple times – you can skip the easy parts and the massive lines, to isolate the training parts (like end of the DW to 12, and the German turns) – otherwise you use a lot of energy for you both on the big lines. If you have nailed a section twice? No need to do it again, in any session, just to save energy and keep muscles from getting tired or sore. That way you will have fresh legs (fr you and Nox :)) to work the harder parts 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>. Actually, I’ve never used an outside arm for anything! After watching your video about teaching threadles with an outside arm and seeing this comment here, I have a question. I was talking to a friend recently about using the outside arm. She is very successful with her dogs and does not use it. Her reasoning is that it causes too much handler focus and then it’s hard to switch them back to the line or next obstacle. What are your thoughts about this?
I use the outside arm 4 or 5 different ways, and they are so completely different looking that the dogs have no questions 🙂
Here is a video that explains some of it – which ones are used for handler focus, which ones are used as sends, etc.
>>My friend I was training with, Nicole Davilli (not sure if you know her), said the same thing.
Yes, I totally know her, she is fabulous and so are her dogs 🙂
>>but is it safe to assume that the prop game helps teach this? She gets a bit sticky with the prop game after a couple of reps because she really dislikes countermotion!!
Yes, it begins with the prop games 🙂 If she struggles with it, 2 suggestions:
All rewards tossed behind you to the prop as you move away
Move away very slowly so she is very successful, looking behind you to the prop (and pointing at it) and not at her 🙂Onwards to the video!
Tracy
Good morning!
It is entirely possible that he is in a threadle vortex LOL! But also, he might be thinking about his lead changes, see below. AS things get more complex in the course work, the lead changes will come into play – the literal definition of “GO” is to NOT change leads unless there is handler support specifically overriding that. If the handling says lateran and shows now convergence, then the he should not lead change. Young dogs are literal, adult dogs save our hides. LOL!
>>In this session below I can see some reps where I give him a little excuse by thinking he’s committed and starting to move off but I’ve always been able to do that with him.>>
Yes – and things will shift back to that when he is more experienced but I think the other thing that is happening here is that he is learning that unless there is a specific cue to change leads, that you stay on the lead as the go line. So that is what happened at :05 and then also at :30 and :45 and 1:01
That line to the 2nd tunnel is an ‘out’ line where he would have to lead change away from you (to his right lead) to get to it – that is what you did with the extra pressure when he did get it right (it is a tricky sequence, that “out” moment bit a lot of dogs that ran this course, so definitely look for the lead changes
In the next session, you had more handler support on those lines (and when you wanted to change the lines – either a blind to change the line, or convergence to get the ‘out’ to the next tunnel that should, theoretically be a straight line from the human perspective, but is a subtle turn away from the dog’s perspective. Darned dogs, paying attention too everything LOL!!
Let me know if that makes sense! I am guessing he was not vortexing, and it was more of a lead change things, mainly because just about all of the other dogs that ran this course had the same question there 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>not telling Maewyn which way to go and being confused on right vs. left) but I think I was better! >>
Yes! Lots of great moments here! And rewarding the smaller bits if perfect, especially since it has been sooo hot recently.
And if something goes wrong? Act like it was right and reward her immediately – she deflates a bit when you turn your back on her, even if you are turning away to restart or figure out what happened.
On the first course:
The opening looked good – you can tell her a GO before the first tunnel then start the weave cue even before she goes in it. Even if she misses the weaves, you can still praise and cookie the effort rather than walk away – it is really hard so it is good to let the dogs know that we appreciate the oh-so-close effort. She did a good job on the next rep and also at 1:28, where you had some converging pressure into her line and she found the weaves nicely 🙂
The line to the DW looked good and I like the BC after it! At :43 on the first video, she needed more connection – for a moment you had your shoulder back but then closed it forward, so she never really knew if it was the jump or the teeter. In that moment – just keep going and connect more strongly, so that you can get her back on the line. If you are going to stop, reward her immediately because she was being a good girl. The FC at :57 worked better but I think that was because there was more connection (as opposed to a FC versus BC thing). The BC will get you further ahead but does require really strong connection. At 1:41, you were trying to connect with your hand after the FC and had a lot of motion, so she took the teeter. The connection is all about the eyes there 🙂 So yes, as Nelci said: talk to her but also make a very clear eye contact 🙂 And if she goes off course? Reward! At 1:48, you used a left verbal and made a very clear eye contact and it looked great.
For the backside at 1:04 – you can run forward to where the wing meets the bar (like what you did at 1:54) rather than turn your shoulders – that shoulder turn pulled her in a bit t mcc sho she was not sure if you wanted the front or the back.
On the GO line at the end – try a placed reward or someone else throws it SUPER early, so she gets the practice of driving ahead no matter how far behind you get or how hot it is out LOL!
Course 2: The layering in the opening looked great! The 2nd rep was even better – the bind at 2 was smoother and you started the layering cues sooner too.
After the teeter – if you stop and praise, then accelerate on the left verbal… the acceleration will override the verbal and she will drive to the tunnel, good girl. So try not to stop moving when she is doing the teeter and release in motion, so you can show the decel and turn. You can also repeat the verbal a few times, so it is easier to process: left left left rather than a single time.
SUPER nice line from the weaves to the blind to the tunnel!!!
She really looks at you on the a-frame, almost coming down sideways. I think some of the videos had a mat there to remind her – definitely leave it in so she doesn’t peel off the side of the frame.
Brilliant work on the layering to get from the last tunnel to the ending line! As with the previous video – either throw a lot sooner or have the reward already out there, so she doesn’t decel or look back for you on those big lines. That will make it easier for you too, so you won’t have to hustle as much 🙂 to keep her from curling in.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Good work on these, I see improvements already! Some more ideas for you to get even more driving ahead 🙂
On the flat – she is doing well for the food. But to really get her driving ahead of you… I would like you to win a couple of times. I don’t think y9 toucan do that with food, so will she drive to a toy? Throw something big that she likes and then you can totally cheat to win. And when you win? It is your prize, not hers, tease her with it but don’t give it to her… then do the next rep and I bet she SMOKES you 🙂
When you were going back and forth with the wings… I think she was confused as to what she was looking at, s for now stick to the straight line toy races.
She was definitely beginning to drive ahead when you were using the line of jumps after the tunnel . She was slowing down a bit waiting for the throw, or missing the jump so a couple of ideas for you:
– for now, no lead outs and you need to go in closer to the tunnel so she really leave you in the dust 🙂 If you were too far ahead, she was catching up but not getting past you as much.
– Have the toy placed in advance or someone else drops it crazy early, so she locks onto it and leave you in the dust! That way you don’t have to worry about timing the throw and she doesn’t look at you for it at all 🙂
Great job!! And when you tackle the sequences or courses again, find the big lines where she should drive ahead and throw the toy or place it to keep fostering the drive ahead.
Tracy
Hi!
This is going well!!>>What about arms when we’re sending to the other side of an obstacle like the tunnel? My arm, always too high anyway, automatically wanted to be higher since things were farther away and on occluded by the tunnel. I think it was way to high here, right?>>
For layering, I think a high arm is one of the cues that helps differentiate that it is layering (and not coming in to the handler). So I think it was fine, except for the one rep where you turned away from her and faced the tunnel (which she took :)) As long as you can see make a bit of connection, the high arm works well in layering. I promise the arm game sooner, it was basically thunderstorms all week here so no outdoor training was possible (and it is an outdoor game LOL!
She is doing well with the layering in general! One thought:
You can start your over cues sooner for the layered line to get her driving out more to it – you were tending to wait til she was one with the jump before the layering, but that su a little late and she was waiting for you a bit. She did better when you gave her the cue as she was over the bar at :40 and :47 but you can give it even sooner:
When she is in the air of the jump before the layering, or landing from the previous jump if you are starting from the one before it – you can already be giving your go go over over cues, repeatedly, so she know she has ‘permission’ to drive out there. She is slowing down a bit waiting for the info, but if you start giving it to her several strides sooner, she will be running the whole time 🙂The one blooper was just that you had full turned to face the tunnel so she was following your shoulders.
She got all of the rest of them really nicely!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Definitely need to work on that in isolation for me to get my footwork and timing right.
Stay tuned for Monday! Some skills work on that starting next week 🙂
The courses are looking good! Thank you for including the bloopers, they are very helpful: what don’t work versus what DOES work! More below on that. First, some thoughts on the runs:
First video – yes the toy was exciting but I think the question was more about connection and not the toy 🙂 When she didn’t take 3, you were not really connected so she was not sure where to be. But you can definitely run with it in a pocket!
The layering worked well here!!!
On the jump after the DW/before the teeter. Give her more of a turn cue to get more collection to line up straighter to get on the teeter. I think a sequel and wrap verbal should work but a spin can be used too!For the jump after the teeter – pushing past the teeter exit was great! So the next step is as soon as she exits the teeter to give a turn cue then get outta there 🙂 There was not enough turn cue on the first video. Then on the 2nd video you started there and it was too much helping, she was convince it was a pull and flick to the tunnel LOL! It was a definite Goldilocks moment of too much (off course tunnel) too little (flick to the tunnel) then just right at :53! Nice!
Then coming back up the line at :20 you said tunnel once but then pulled away – say it a zillion times and keep moving towards it ti she gets it. That is more like what you did at :59 and she nailed it 🙂 Then right before she goes into the tunnel, tell her to go so she doesn’t curl into you before the a-frame.
Stay connected at 1:18! You disconnected so she went to the toy. Nice tunnel send! And stay connected on the ending line more too, to help with the bars in tighter spacing at 24” .
The 2nd rep went a lot better!!! The opening looked good and with nothing in your hands, you were better able to connect and show the lines. The turn TO the teeter was better and then after the teeter, decel sooner: as she is exiting the teeter, you can be using your turns cues and moving away (you were tending to wait til she was in the air).
On the big sends to the tunnel, you can tart the tunnel verbals and acceleration soon – you were waiting til she landed from the previous jump, but you can totally start them before takeoff from that jump so she turns on the jets to drive to the tunnel.
And on the ending line: you showed better acceleration and connection on that short video, very nice! On the end of the previous video, you were looking ahead, not really connected, so she was losing info and dropped the bars. Connection and acceleration is the key!
>>We struggled to keep the bars up when she was ahead of me >>
In those instances, you can have a toy placed on the line, or have someone throw it to keep strengthening her drive ahead to the line.
>> But I included it because you said this course is to help us get it right the first time!
Yes! So the two major things I see are:
– Be as connected a humanly possible, over-connect almost because she is a baby dog and needs the support.– time all of your cues to happen before she lifts off for the previous jump, not when she lands. If you see her land and then begin the cue… the WOO has passed and you are late. So, start the cues early and repeat the verbals and use the physical cues, so she has more time to process them.
More on getting it right the first time coming on Monday too! Great job here, let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Great update about her trial success!!! She is doing well! Yes, time to finish the RDW haha
Lot of lovely work on the videos here – The jumpers course looked great!
Jumpers video 1: Nice job getting the layered tunnel on the opening with a rear cross! If she will let you lead out far enough for a blind, the blind is easier but getting it with a rear cross is great too!
She might have thought th course was done at 1:05 when she zipped away rather than find the backside of the tunnel after the out jump? She was great the 2nd time – try not to go in as close to the tunnel entry so you can finish the blind after it sooner – she read the side change but slowed down to let you finish it.
She needed a little extra help finding the bar on the backside jump before the weaves – you can look back at the landing spot as you move through, and also drop the reward on the landing side as you move through to keep building up independence so she defaults to taking the jump. The rest looked great!!!
Run 2: the opening looked good here too, and she did the same little zip away on the out jump between the 2 tunnels! Clearly taking a jump towards nothing obvious is weird-feeling for her, so it is a good section to set up and work on. She was quite perfect on everything else!
She nailed the backside blind/German turn before the weaves on this one, looked great! And so did the rest!
Layering –
To make this easier for her, drop the bars to 8 inches to teach the sill so the jumping effort is insanely easy. And… keep moving 🙂 When you stopped/decelerated, she came into you – so keep moving and also, stay loud LOL! You’re movement can be alongside the tunnel, but try not to stop at the tunnel entry. For the verbals, repeat them more, so it is more like :GO GO GO GO or OUTOUTOUTOUT rather than one cue for each jump, You have more of this repeated verbal at about 2:18 and it helped propel her on the line. And the last rep was great – lots of motion and very loud 🙂 Yay! She missed the first balance rep, but no worries, she was a bit on autopilot and got it really well o the next rep.The first Arram video is a Lanna jumpers video, not sure if there are 2 Arram videos?
On the video that is actually Arram: it was a little hard to see everything tat was happening (far from the camera with a tunnel in the way) but it looks like he was finding the line nicely! So, now we can look at keeping his head on the line and not looking at you…>>Clearly come back with dead toy isn’t ready for the barn :)>>
What about a tossed ball as he is moving and looking ahead? Then he can get it and you got the other direction, and reward with a tuggie or another ball or a treat? That might be a good compromise if the dead toy in the barn doesn’t work 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The baby speed demon looked great here!
The first blind looked good! Be quicker to finish it once you have started it – you took a few steps before looking back at her and she barked.You were late on the 2nd one and 3rd one, waiting too long in the pinwheel and rounding the line with her, which made the cross late and she almost missed the side change: send and giddy up outta there 🙂 to be nice and early on the BC. Note how she gave you verbal feedback on these two reps 🙂
The last one was great , my favorite of the session- you left the pinwheel and did the BC immediately – note how she did not bark at you LOL! Yay!
>>My first video of lines turned into a training session on start line stays. I almost did a TikTok video because every time I got to the wing of the jump she threw herself into a down. And not a stressed out got a stiff down but I slammed down ears flipped back let’s go. And it was not random. It was every time I led out. it was the quirkiest thing because we’ve never asked her to lie down.>>
I saw her do it here on the blinds video – I think she is just excited and focused, maybe making sure she holds the position. So the #1 priority is to NOT ever fight with her about start lines (so much stress when that happens). And, IMO, fighting includes fixing them or telling her she is wrong. So – why not let her pick her position? This ain’t obedience after all LOL!! Move to the start line, cue a ‘stay’ and see what she does. If down is her preferred happy-making position, then go with it so he can be correct all the time and stress-free.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
