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Good morning!
Yes, I use the same verbals on the backside and threadle slices and wraps, regardless of which way the dog is turning (backside slice to the left is the same as backside slice to the right). I am relying on my position and the context (and concept training) to some extent. I do know handlers that have separate verbals for each direction too, but I am not one of those (and I hope to never be one of those LOL!!!)On your turn and burn, you were brave to have a drink on the table the whole time! LOL! With the added speed, dogs sometimes hit the barrels and I was afraid the drink would come crashing down 🙂 And I think your arms were fine, not too flingy at all! It will feel easier when you have more room, you had to hustle here because she was really driving.
She did really well here – great commitment and turns, no problem at all! You can leave sooner with the FC, starting it before she arrives at the table, but you will probably need more room for that. This is a good one for outside as soon as the mud dries.
Speaking of verbals – after :23, you changed your running angle and the wraps were backside wraps, full circles/360s. Her commitment looked great and we do have those on the agenda this week, so I am glad you did them! But…. they would be different verbals. So I believe that dig dig dig is your left wrap, that is front side only when you are doing the “L-shaped” running line like at :15. So the full backside circles and the front side wraps here are different because of the line your path creates. On the front side wraps, you never go past the table, just parallel to it. While she does do basically a full circle around it, your running line is an “L” with that bend in it. On the backside circle wraps, you send forward and you keep moving forward, past the table, in a straight line.
Another way to look at it is to envision it on jumps: on the front side wraps, you send to the front side and your running line remains on the takeoff side. On the backside wraps, you send to the backside and your running line takes you to past the takeoff side for the exit, in a straight line. Let me know if that makes sense!
Nice work here!!
TracyGood morning!
Perch work –
I think his hesitancy on the first bit of the session with the pawd had to do with you placing him on them and not shaping with them. So, be more patient and let him offer more 🙂 You were trying to help a lot by moving and that can muddy the waters because he was not sure what to follow. When you reset without helping him, he offered it right away! Yay! It is possible that the pawd is not totally comfy in terms of balance with front feet, or he is not used to putting his front feet up on things in isolation, so you can practice front feet up on things that are small on as many different objects as possible. I am sure that after a couple of sessions of that,, he will be very happy to do it and then you can add in the hind end movement.Backside slice – this is going well, he was really great about finding the backsides! Yes, you had a little convergence on the line towards the barrel rather than a straight line, so you can lay a leash on the ground to keep your line straight. You were not stepping to the backside, so the straighter I’ve of motion is a small detail, and the leash on the ground will help you be able to get further and further over on the bar.
At :51, he did end up on the wrong side – it might have bee that the connection was a little soft, or that there not a lot of room there with the couch on that side so he was just moving to the more obvious part of the bar with more space. But no worries, it was only one oopsie and he was great on the rest.
You can add in the ‘serp’ exit now, where after indicating the backside with your parallel path and verbal you then move parallel to the bar. The reward gets tossed to where the the barrel and the bump meet, so he doesn’t really look at your motion and instead thinks about taking the jump.
Strike a pose – also going really well!
Positions 2 and 3 are really hard so you might need to start him further from the bar like you did in session 2 and also remember to just reset with a cookie toss 🙂 For the most of the reps in session 2, he was pretty far from the jump and that is great because it gives him time and space to process the cue – and that was reflected in his high rate of success. I love how he has figured out the in and out pattern! So now you can start to delay the click of the MM more and more, allowing him to turn towards it more and more (eventually the click of the MM will be for going over the bar, but take your time working up to that).Leading with the head – yes, the hardest part of this one is which hand does what for us humans 🙂 . The hand on the side he starts on does all the work – you send on your left, for example, then pull him through the exit with your left, then turn him away with your left (which is the hand opposite him at that point). When you were starting on your left, you were trying to work the turn away with the right which is why he had questions. The turn away element is similar to the lap turns, with the same hand pulling him towards you and turning him away.
I also suggest starting this one sitting because he is so small – you can be on a couch to do it so you don’t have to bend over as much – the pressure of bending over/leaning in was causing him to back off from coming all the way around the upright. So, sitting will relieve that pressure and then you can get him to follow your hands. I think he was beginning to do the head turn, so using the turn away hand a little differently will smooth it all out.Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The first video of moving away from the food was good – it was hardest on the 2nd rep after the food was ‘in play’ following the first reward! You gave a little encouragement there and then she was fine with the game after that.
Toys were definitely more exciting! She did well both with ignoring it when it needed to be ignored, and going back with the marker but also NOT grabbing it off the table. She also did well with the sit and hand touch and spin cues. It was more stimulating but seemed liked she was highly successful – you mentioned it being tougher, did she have errors that aren’t on the clip? I think this went well!
You can revisit this here and there, bearing in mind it is ‘just’ a game and not a lifestyle, and gradually add in more behaviors before going back to the treats or toy.
Nice work!!
TracyHi!
The serps and threadles were really very strong! He was just about perfect with doing his in-then-out on both, only one little oopsie like at :33. Hen he didn’t come in for the serp. I think he was really focused on the toy because it was the last thing he saw when you dropped it. You can drop it, then put your serp arm out there for a few seconds…then release him. It was happening all at the same time so he had the little error.Backside also looked really good-he had the oops on the balance but I think he was just a bit on backside-autopilot there, it didn’t happen again 🙂
On the lateral motion – since there is no bar to jump or wing to line up with for the exit, continue to drop the reinforcement relatively close to where the barrel meets the bar on the ground. When you both got to the lateral path, your line of motion was good but you were dropping the reward closer to the exit (like at 2:34 and 2:40 and afterwards – that was causing him to not be sure of where to be, and you need up pulling your arm back to draw him in. Your timing was good but without a real bar or 2nd wing there yet, he didn’t know where to focus as he went around the barrel. So for now, toss the reward back to where the bar meets the barrel to over-exaggerate the turn a bit – when we add the 2nd wing, you can place the reward more like you are were doing on the serps.
And you can drop the toy with the lagging arm so you don’t toss it in across your body – that way he won’t read extra rotation as the cue to come in over the bar.
The last few seconds of you both doing the backside serp dance was hilarious! Thanks for posting it!!!
Nice work! Let me know if the backside reward idea makes sense 🙂
TracyHi!
My backside slice is “back” and my backside circle wrap is “dig dig dig”. My threadle slice and wraps are different: close and in. The 360 wraps (backside wraps) are in this week’s games! They come into play in the lead-with-the-head games.
She is really beginning to sort the serp and threadle out!
I think the bowl placement will help with both of these behaviors. It is hard to see where the bowl is when she is going to her left, so looking at the right turn serp/threadle – for the threadle, have the bowl kind of perpendicular to he yellow jump legs, so it is easier to see through the uprights. At :13, for example, the bowl was past the yellow legs and outside the wing – you can move it over (ore towards the center of your screen) so it is no further past the jump than the yellow legs.
For the serp, it can be past the yellow legs but have it more towards the edge of the couch – at :29 or example, it was closer to the fan so the turn away for the next jump on the serp was not as clear. You can move it so it is more in line with the edge of the couch and it should be perfect.She was very successful here so I think the final frontier is to slightly change the position of the bowl – then when she is finding the bump automatically, we can add your motion. She is already beginning to look for the bump as part of the in-and-out behavior, like at 1:14 where she made the really hard turn for the threadle and turned herself to the bump before you said bowl – yay!!!!
Nice work here!! Let me know if the bowl position ideas make sense.
TracyGood morning!
This is a good one to do first in week 8! He did really well, he is was happy to lead with his head and really bend through the turns. Yay!!!
Great job with the timing of the click and the quick placement of the rewards – both of those are really critical to this and you nailed it.
Looking at the mechanics, on the first couple of reps turning to his left – you sent him to the upright and ‘caught’ his head to turn away more on the exit side. I think that had the most success on that side. When yo changed your hand location, having the hand there to lead him through the turn on the entry side of the upright, he was slipping more and not leading with his head as much. He was more balanced on the right turns in the 2nd half of the video (less slipping). So keep your hand more on the exit side, to flip him away as he exits the wrap – that will also help you be able to fade the hand cue to turn away so it will be less of a lure and more of a cue and then he is likely to start offering it himself 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
These all look great!
Strike a pose threadles:
Wow, I am impressed with your cookie tosses to get him started in each position!!
He did great on the left turns. He had one blooper on the right turns, perhaps not as comfy on that side coming in to the little space between you and the wing? But he got it on all of the reps after it. IT might have also been that on that at 1:01, it was the only time the cookie toss ended up very close to the jump, so it is possible that he didn’t have room to fully set up for the threadle. All of the other cookie tosses were pretty far away and he was perfect.Good job adding the verbal and fading the target in the hand. And I thought your position was good and you did a good job of being pretty stationary! Keep reminding yourself to leave your threadle arm out there until after he reaches the MM – we don’t want to build in any accidental physical cue to go to the bump.
The next step would be to fade the actual touch of the hand, by changing the timing of the MM click. You can begin by clicking just before he gets to your hand. That should help get him to continue to come in like he was here, and then start to automatically go back out. Then after a session or two of that, you can delay the MM click til after he comes in then turns back towards the bump.
Backsides are going well here too! And good toy play in the beginning! He is definitely understanding which side of the barrel to go around: perfect!
For the rewards, it might help to think of tossing them back towards the corner of the room behind you, rather than trying to get them to land in the right spot (cookies have a mind of their own LOL!) Tossing the treats behind you will help them landing on the landing side, and he will be happy to drive in to get them even as you move parallel to the bar as you did here.
One other idea for reward placement: toss with the arm that is also sending him to the backside, the hand closer to the barrel. You were tossing with the arm across your body. When he was on your right you were dropping the cookies in with your left. when he was on your left, you were dropping the treats in from your right hand, across you body – that makes things harder in terms of movement and getting the cookies tossed accurately. So you can have the treats in your left hand and it will be easier to just toss them behind you without having to twist the upper body.Perch work: Yes, he totally likes this! Great job with your low hands, to keep his head low in the beginning. When you raised your hands, you can see it was harder for him to move freely – when his head comes up, his weight shifts to his hind end and that makes it harder to move the hind end freely like he can do when his head is down. So, keep bending over (sorry!) to keep his head lower.
I think he is ready for a bump to step over – if you think of the perch as a clock, you are at 12 and the bump can go at 6, and he can ‘perch’ back and forth around it. Go more slowly for this, so he can really think about each hind end step without trying to go fast.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Really good session here; it was fun to see the behavior develop!!
At the beginning, I think she needed more space to feel comfy coming in on the left turns, plus you might have been too much in the enter of the bar for her so she might have considered the serps? You can have more of yourself ‘outside’ the wing, meaning half or your body is visible outside the upright and the other half is between the uprights, so you are not as much in the center of the bump.Right turns – on these, she feels more comfortable fitting into a small space (or you gave her a little more room to fit, or both :)) She got the idea of this really quickly! And I think that concept transferred to the left turns when you went back to the other side – she nailed that part of the session. The angled jump might have helped there too on the left turns, but either way she certainly looked very comfy with those at the end. And she did a great job with the toy on the floor, even when she was starting right next to it! Yay!!!
So, next steps:
For the threadles, to continue developing the full in-then-out behavior, you can delay your marker (get it or bowl) until after she looks towards the bump and then moves towards it. Yes, she might be looking towards the bowl or toy but that is fine 🙂
On the next session, you can also start with the right turns to refresh the skill, before going to the next turns.And for balance, show her some serpentines by standing near the wing of the jump but with your indication arm over the middle of the bump (and a cookie or toy in the other hand) and using your release word, cue her to come in over the bump and not do a threadle.
Nice job!!!! Let me know what you think.
TracyHi!
These are going well, a couple of details to help move each game forward:Pivot/perch work: you can move a little more slowly here, so she moves more slowly and precisely too! That will help you begin to fade your movement too: rather than fast steps towards her, you can take a slow step or reach your leg out and reward movement. Also, feed her even lower, down by your knees, so her head is parallel to the floor or pointed a little downwards.
Backsides are going well, she is finding the backside entry really nicely! Now to create more default looking at the bar, keep dropping the treat on the landing side nearer to the barrel – but instead of doing a FC, do a serpentine where you move parallel to the bump. So as she is coming around the barrel, you are dropping the treat in and moving towards the side wall like a serp. We don’t want her to wait for a FC to indicate coming in over the bump, so the serp motion and the early reward drop will help develop the default of looking for the bar/bump regardless fo what you are doing with your motion or position.
Head turn: This is on the right track too! You can help her by being quicker with the rewards: drop the treat in as soon as she turns her head. You were having to pluck one out of the hand using the other hand on a bunch of the reps, which delays the placement. You can have one treat in the reward hand so as soon as she turns her head, you can just drop the treat in really quickly.
You don’t have to be quicker with the head turn cue, just the reward placement because the quick placement will get her to want to turn her head immediately 🙂Threadle – regarding the food, was this the last session after all the others with food? She might have just been done with cookies, so toss the food element of this session out and try it again another time when she is hungry – do it as the first session of the evening or something like that.
When you went to the toy – she definitely liked it better!
One thing that will also help her is your position: Your body was too much in the center of the bar, which could be a serpentine. Move your position over so that your belly button is lined up with the wing (using a wing would be helpful because it is more obvious than the wingless) and your threadle arm (and part of your hip) is fully visible past the wing she is coming around. At :21 (and the 2 reps after that), for example, I think you wanted a threadle but said break and your body was very much in the center of the bar, so she read serpentine (correctly). Your hand was visible outside the wing but maybe only from wrist to fingers 🙂 She got the threadle on the last 2 reps but I think the position really reads more serpentine than threadle. Also, what is your threadle verbal? Use that as the release word here when you are more in the threadle position and she can read it consistently, to help differentiate the two behaviors.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! These are all going really well!
Wing wraps: She is so little that I think sitting is the right choice (you can split the difference and sit in a chair). Also, stick closer to it and maybe be up against a wall, to limit the options of going between the barrel and you, or behind you 🙂
What treat do you have that is smaller that requires no chewing? This might be even smoother with cheese 🙂 And a bigger/opaque barrel might help too! One detail for this (and all the sessions, actually): talk less LOL! You have a lot of conversation happening and I think it draws her focus up to you, and also makes the reward markers harder to isolate. So be a chatty person during tugging, but be very quiet except for reward markers (or cookie dropping) during shaping. The tugging looked great!
Try the chair sitting and see how that goes! She is very close to being done with this level, but we do want her to move around the barrel more and look at you or go behind/between less. You won’t see a ton of speed til we add turn and burn, but we need you to be standing for that one to work well.Backing up shaping is going well – stop talking in this one too LOL! Except during the tug breaks, keep talking there 🙂 Be quiet during the shaping so the get it marker is very salient and she can focus on her body for the rest.
Cheese was a better reinforcement, faster to eat , so you might want to use it on your barrels too!Yes you can add a destination now for her to back up to, like a dog bed (we have that in the advanced levels) and you can move to a different spot on the floor to get tugging so there is no cheese smell happening, or even throw the toy for her to run to. You did that at the end and the play was really fun!!
Toy races – These are also going well she is getting really comfy driving ahead.
When she growls or barks, does she stop driving ahead and comes to you instead, kind of like at 1:19? The answer is… you win the toy and she does not get it. You gave it to her here even though you clearly won, so she had the double joy of chasing you and getting the toy. So, if she makes a ‘wrong’ choice like focusing on you, take advantage of that and have your own personal party of one with the toy. Then when she is really engaged with trying to get it, immediately go into the next rep and see if she focuses on the toy and not on your running.
It is also possible that the toy was off her line a bit on that rep at 1:19 and she lost the line a bit, so make sure the toy is really obvious and on her line. Slowing down a little and not running as fast is fine too, but if she chooses to come to you and NOT get the toy, then you must win and dance around and tease her but she does not get to play with it 🙂 That will allow you to add your speed and also she will go even faster 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I used my perch box lid for the prop. Can I use a bowl?>>
If you have a low bowl, probably 2 inches high or less and maybe 6 – 8 inches across, and it won’t tip over – it should work!
>>Is the ultimate goal to be able to have the dog at your side and they move when you do?
No, the goal is that you can stand still and the dog pivots around the perch with independent back feet and lowered head.
T
Hi! I think this went well! The balance pad might be a bit wider than a perfect size would be, but the height was good and that is more important. She seemed to get the idea that you only wanted front feet on it after the first couple of rapid-fire treats. Then the hind end movement was getting going nicely too! My only suggestion is to feed her the rewards lower: bend in to deliver the treats so her chin us parallel to the floor or pointed down a bit. She had to lift her head up, which changes the weight shift and makes the hind end movement harder.
You can also try to straddle the balance pad, putting your feet on either side of it, to make it a smaller playing field. That might make it a little harder for you to move around it, but could help her move around it nicely.
Nice work here! Let me know how the next session goes.
TracyHi!
>> She learned to pivot with her head up as that’s how obedience people teach it.>
You can do it sitting down! On the ottoman or couch, have the perch in front of you and then your hands can be a lower focal point and she can go back and forth without any confusion about head up or heel position.
Your head turn game is going well – the dogs totally do follow our hands for the beginning of this, then we fade the hand movement. To help her out, try to move your turn away hand more slowly and also lower (nose level or below). I was bending over in the demos but we want to preserve your back, so you can sit down for this too. I feel a whole winter class coming with all the games we can do sitting down LOL!!!
You will see her beginning to offer the head turn away more and more – she was already doing it here but the key is: low hand so she doesn’t look up.
I do admire her optimism on the first couple of reps when she was opening her mouth to receive the cookie LOL! So cute!
About the threadle game:
>> She was coming in but NOT taking the jump. Thoughts on that? We aren’t indicating the jump if we stay still.
Correct, we are not using a physical indication of the jump other than our position, the value of the jump setup, and the placement/value of reinforcement. A couple of ideas for you:
You can be closer to the jump, so it is right there and easier to go over, harder to go around.
>>She just ran parallel to the reward.
You can change the position of the reward so you are over-exaggerating the turn and it is more efficient to go over the jump to get it (and far less efficient to go around it). You can start it so it is almost center of the bar on the landing side of the jump (more in the position 2 location where she would start, and not in the position 3 location).
You can also angle the jump: if she is sitting in position 2, for example, with the reward in position 2 or 3 – the jump wing on the entry side (near you) can be pushed towards her, and the jump wing on the exit side can be pushed away from her – so as she gets to the takeoff side, between you and the jump, she can clearly see the reward through the uprights and it is far more efficient to go over the jump.
Also, be sure that the bowl has value and she will go to it directly without any other indication. The place to check this is the serpentine game: if you don’t move at all, will she go back out to the bowl (after coming in over the bar) with just a marker? If not – that is the place to start it. If so, you can jumpstart it in the threadle game by having the treat already in the bowl, and using the marker.
Do I remember correctly that you had the Pet Tutor involved? You can use the Pet Tutor for the threadle reward, because the beep will help her go to it.Feel free to post the video in case my ideas are off base. And keep me posted on how the threadles go!
Tracy
Hi! Hooray for a working spot!
We used to have Paypal as an option, but most people really hate PayPal (too many issues) so we moved over to Stripe which has been issue-free (knock wood).T
