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Hi!
>>Found the registration! PS. It is not easy to find clasess to register for on this website. I would think that you would want a list of clses and registration to be up front and clear on the website.>>
Glad you found it! It is hard to find because we hide registration once they get past week 2. So there are several active classes at the moment but registration is hidden because they are either finishing or halfway through 🙂 the new classes are much easier to find (no new classes at the moment :))
TThis all sounds good! I’ve found that limited the training time AND having to train more than one dog in that time helps us make better plans and be more efficient 🙂
And you can see if the jealousy thing helps in class! There will be some extra noise 🙂 but hopefully no one minds 🙂
TracyFor more RC foundation, try this:
First on the flat, then add in the prop in front of her so you do the RC then release forward to the prop (this was done before we got all proppy lol)
T
Hi!
Thanks for trying the RCs again – I think you just need more room to do it, like 20 feet, because she had already committed to doing the prop a certain way when you were cutting in behind her here. But, we can also teach her to turn away for a RC with some other games – I will grab the videos to show you that!Parallel path also looked great, it was an easy concept transfer! So now – don’t click anymore, because it causes her to look at you and we don’t want her to look up. Instead, mark with a get it and throw the cookie (or toy). And, mark and throw sooner: you are looking for the intent to commit, the decision to move to the jump, rather than waiting for her to get between the uprights. When she is between the uprights, there is nothing else to look at so she is likely to look at you. When you mark intent, the reward will be placed earlier so she won’t look at you 🙂
The RDW mat also looked good! Next step: now, stare at the mat (don’t watch her) and click for back feet only. At first, any back feet then you can ramp it up to clicking for the 2nd back foot 🙂 Staring at the mat makes it much easier 🙂
Definite progress with the retrieve to hand!!! This looked great! Food value is high enough now that you can do stationary shaping stuff like this with success. Yay!
2 things to consider:
First, make sure she swallows the treat after the click, before presenting the toy again. The toy came out fast, so she finished chewing the treat after she gave the toy back to you LOL!Second – now for some words 🙂 Maybe add a word to pick it up, and a word to out it? Thinking ahead to obedience, you’ll want words for all that eventually.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think and be right back with the rear cross videos.
TracyHi!
Thanks for trying the RCs again – I think you just need more room to do it, like 20 feet, because she had already committed to doing the prop a certain way when you were cutting in behind her here. But, we can also teach her to turn away for a RC with some other games – I will grab the videos to show you that!Parallel path also looked great, it was an easy concept transfer! So now – don’t click anymore, because it causes her to look at you and we don’t want her to look up. Instead, mark with a get it and throw the cookie (or toy). And, mark and throw sooner: you are looking for the intent to commit, the decision to move to the jump, rather than waiting for her to get between the uprights. When she is between the uprights, there is nothing else to look at so she is likely to look at you. When you mark intent, the reward will be placed earlier so she won’t look at you 🙂
The RDW mat also looked good! Next step: now, stare at the mat (don’t watch her) and click for back feet only. At first, any back feet then you can ramp it up to clicking for the 2nd back foot 🙂 Staring at the mat makes it much easier 🙂
Definite progress with the retrieve to hand!!! This looked great! Food value is high enough now that you can do stationary shaping stuff like this with success. Yay!
2 things to consider:
First, make sure she swallows the treat after the click, before presenting the toy again. The toy came out fast, so she finished chewing the treat after she gave the toy back to you LOL!Second – now for some words 🙂 Maybe add a word to pick it up, and a word to out it? Thinking ahead to obedience, you’ll want words for all that eventually.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think and be right back with the rear cross videos.
TracyHi!
I think the strike a pose game looked really great! And considering how stationary it all is, she was really driving in wonderfully! Yay! Her target hits were strong – I think there was one at :54 she didn’t quite hit it but yo were also moving your hand to the toy and she got distracted by that (not quite ready for that distraction yet). So the toy in hand is a GREAT thing to work through, because this game also has a nice level of self-control built in!
You can also work on cleaner mechanics to make it easier – tossing the cookie from the target hand like you did at the end worked really well. She also did her best reps when you looked at the target. And, plan your reinforcement markers – you had get it got a tossed treat, get it for the toy in your hand, and get it while tugging 🙂 I think you need different cues for get it as a tossed thing versus grab the thing in my hand (and probably just praise when you tug or silly noises :)) And same with treats – you had “yes” as a marker, but when you want to her to leave the target and come to the cookie in your other hand, a separate marker will help her know where to look and where to go, which suits this game really nicely too 🙂
Ladder –
>> I might try a target plate at the end with a piece of kibble on it to get her to focus forward all the way through rather than start looking at me for the treat as she reaches the end.Yes, an empty target or food bowl, about 6 feet past the ladder will be a great focal point. You were feeding her high and towards you, so the target is a great way to keep her looking straight.
She was really good with her trotting here!! Both directions looked good and she was also good with the taller ladder.
>>Unlike a certain auntie of hers who shall remain nameless, she has yet to try jumping through the ladder, and kibble should be a low enough value that it won’t get her doing that.>>
I think maybe you were overly concerned about jumping through it and you were not giving her enough space to do her thing. For example, why did you tell her she was wrong at :12 and :31 and :51 by stopping her and telling her to come back? She was trotting into the ladder nicely and you were moving towards it, so she was correct to also move towards it. She just needed more space to turn around and enter correctly, she didn’t have enough room. Then at :21 and later on you were saying “easy” or “hey hey easy” – she doesn’t need any of that 🙂 especially not the hey hey which can be a negative marker. Just let her do her thing, she is doing awesome!!!!
>> Question on Week 4 Beginning Start line. You mention you use ‘get it’ for a reward they get ahead of them. Do you have a separate word for a situation where you’ve tossed the toy back behind them (they can’t leave position) and THEN release them back to that toy?>>
I almost never toss a toy back to proof not leaving position. I feel it sets dogs up for too much failure and it is also boring as heck, so I can’t think of a time that I do it. If I did do it, it depends on exactly where the reward lands (yet another reason why I don’t do it – precision reward placement LOL!). If the toy lands ahead of the dog, I would say get it because they move forward to get it. If the toy lands behind the dog, I say “toy toy” which means they should turn back and get the toy behind them. I can’t use ‘catch’ in that situation because they are allowed to move on a catch.
>>I’ve always used ‘get it’ in both situations since I never (well, can’t think of a time) have two toys out available on the ground for a reward when working. If you do have a separate word for that situation, can you explain why?>>
I use separate markers because the more specific we are, the better the behavior will be, the less frustration the dog will experience. Plus, if you are proofing, then specifics become even more important so we don’t set the dog up for failure. And I have multiple toys in sight a lot, especially in flyball 🙂 and also in skill training in agility (contacts and weaves for example) The more we give the dog in terms of placement of reward clarity, the better the behavior gets and the happier the dog is 🙂 And there are people out there with so many more markers than I have 🙂
Nice work on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Lap turn video:
This is going really well! I think your position relative to the prop was good on both sides – you were a little more off-center on the first side, so maybe that is why it felt weird? And you were going slow enough, the rhythm of the movement was really good!
Two tweaks for you:
Keep your feet together and your arm in place (extended towards him) until he is about 3 inches from your hand. Then the hand and leg can move back together to set the turn. You had your leg stepping back too soon, when you were releasing him. That made the hand movement a little more awkward and he was not as clear on the turn cues (like at 1:39 when he was not sure if he should stay on your hand or go to the prop). So, as weird as it feel – keep your feet together and arm extended to him til he is super close 🙂My only other suggestion is that you do more rewards for stays by going to position and tossing the treat to him. Now that the ‘work’ has more action, the stay is less interesting so he was not as strong with it. But we don’t want to reward with you handing it to him, we want to build the value of that stay with you on a big lead out – the cookie toss works well for this!
Tunnels – ah yes, he is totally on board with this now LOL!!! So you can now put it in a loop so he only does it on cue: line him up, cue the tunnel, let him do it, click the MM, then as he is getting the cookie, call him back to you on the arm outside the tunnel so he does not go back through the tunnel (you can totally use a cookie for that too!) and then repeat the process 🙂 he was getting good at offering so now we can set him up to come back to you without the tunnel again LOL
Once you have that loop going, you can start to change your position and move further back to add more challenge to finding the tunnel entry.
And I think he is also ready to do the tunnel threadle intro, where he starts between you and the tunnel.Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Perfect timing for tunnel threadles to show up in the in-person class too! He was great both on the shorter straight tunnel and the longer slightly curved tunnel. Being on the threadle side didn’t bother him at all, plus the self-control element of ignoring the toy on the ground was terrific!
At the very end of the 1st tunnel section, I think you were saying “through” – I see that through is also at the end as his tunnel; threadle verbal, which is great! Be cleaner with your markers when he is correct on those – the marker is “get it” but in the heat of the moment you were throwing in his name and yes before the get it 🙂 So say get it then celebrate when he gets to the toy 🙂 Everything looked great, so feel free to add more angles to the tunnel threadle line ups now.
Turn and Burn looked good too – I think I also heard your wrap verbals? Hard to tell with the camera behind you. When he started on your right side, he was perfect and you can now add in leaving sooner. Your goal is to be starting the FC before he arrives at the barrel, so he has to finish the wrap to his left with already moving away. (Then the goal becomes that you finish the FC before he arrives at the barrel, just like we would want on a jump).
I think he was fine on your left side to start too, other than the tunnel being right on his line so he had a legit mistake 🙂
One thing I notice here is that he was really thinking, not as low to the ground as he drove to the barrel as he is at home. It is likely an indication that he is processing the behavior AND the environment – so it was SUPER exciting that he was able to process BOTH. That is unusual for adolescent dogs, especially males, so I am doing a little happy dance here! Good boy!Handling combos – looked great too! When you make connection on the new side (same side as you will drive to the toy on), you can give your toy cue sooner (or a go cue) – he was watching you and waiting for more info 🙂 You can also ‘hold’ the connection on the FC side for longer, so the BC happens on the flat (some of them were more like spins on the barrel so you were on the final side before he exited – and that is a great skill too). You might need more room to do that, as he continues to pick up speed you’ll need the extra time for all the crosses.
One other thing: Now that he is learning stuff on a jump, try to have the line after the barrel clear of jumps or hoops so he doesn’t ignore motion towards them. They were a little off to the side here but we don’t want them to fade into the background at all at this stage.Parallel path is also going nicely. Working on one jump, when he arrives between the uprights he is looking at you (nothing else to look at). So, throw sooner so when he arrives between the uprights and already see the reward in place (or moving into place). You would be marking the decision to commit and the intent to move to the jump, rather than the arrival between the uprights. The 8” bar seems to be no problem and he is old enough for it, so keep that in there as long as he doesn’t start touching it.
The rotated sends looked fabulous too, no problem at all! You can add your wrap cues. And also you can add countermotion like on prop where you are moving away earlier and earlier (he was really good at this, if my memory is correct). Basically we are showing him to exit of a cross or serp where the timing was good and he should maintain commitment even though you are running the other way (this makes for amazing turns!)
Great job! Let me know what you think!!
TracyGood morning!
>> Yea, I totally messed up some verbals for remote reinforcement. 🙂 I trying for “let’s go”, but “get it” slipped out. I caught myself once in the moment, but there were others. LOL>>
I can relate. It is SO HARD not to yell all the things in the heat of the moment… all the things except the marker LOL! Oops!
>>Túlka is the most polite, patient and appropriate/solid dog I’ve ever had. She is amazing that way and I love her for it!>>
For real! What a good girl she was!!!! Most Border Collies would have been pissed off about the other dogs, but she was utter perfection.
>>I’m still searching for what really ramps her up like her trial state during practice. Other dogs don’t do it. The closest I’ve seen are multiple tunnel loops to get her running. It works best right of the top.>>
Keep doing the tunnel insanity then 🙂 But I really think your best bet is going to be an NFC plan for trial runs. If the only place she gets into trial mode is at trials… then off to trials we go LOL!!! AKC allows NFC in FAST and T2B, USDAA allows it in everything I think, as does UKI and ASCA! So find the least expensive trials and do some NFC work until what you get in the ring matches what you get in practice (your practice runs really look fabulous). Then we fade the NFC work. This is what I am doing with my 2 youngsters right now – we went from all NFC to now some NFC then sometime this spring the balance will shift to focus on more real runs.
I like Qs and wins just as much as everyone else… but in my experience with high drive speedsters like Tulka – training in the ring for a while is the best way to get to the achievements, so I am happy to be patient 🙂
>> Her highest arousal at trials is when AKC has one of those “gates” (our local club likes it). Opening that barrier is a trigger for her. I still get nervous at trials no matter how long I’ve done them LOL, so I’m not sure how much my nerves feed her.>>
Perfect! The gate is probably paired with the actual run, so you are seeing a big shift in arousal. So… where can you train with gates? Otherwise, the only option is trial NFC 🙂 And it is fine to get nervous, we all get nervous – and if that only happens at trials, it is a great reason to do NFC.
>>Thanks for the suggestion regarding the contact praise. I can add that in. I’ll work on pingponging in the RR marker procedure. I’ve been mixing up her rewards more lately and she really likes the jute stick as well. I also pulled out the rubber udders, leather braid ropes, rabbit skins….. She really likes this course!! >>
Ha! Then you are doing it right, if she thinks this is the BEST (and easiest) thing ever LOL!!!! Positive reinforcement is LIFE 🙂
Have fun!
TracyYou are SO RIGHT about start lines going south really quickly 🙂 And I am glad that she likes to tug on her leash! You might not have looked at Week 4 yet, but we use the leash a lot and basically you are taking a high value reinforcement into the ring (leash play is legal in most venues – AKC, USDAA and UKI for sure!)
T
Good morning!
>>So, when I begin to add more obstacles after the WPs, if I just add a tunnel and reinforce that nseveral times, would that build value for the obstacle after the WPs and enhaance the cue to continue?>>
Yes, in theory, it will (as a secondary (conditioned) reinforcement. And that in turn enhances the whole sequence of behavior. And that is how agility runs at trials get really consistent and fluid – the entire sequence of behavior is reinforced enough that the dog can go start to finish without the need for a primary reinforcement.
>>Adding to that thought, just like placing the Remote RFMT farther and farther back from the start of the WPs, wouldn’t adding obsctacles after the WPs be similar in that you would want to place the Remote RFMT after successive obstacles?>>
Yes – bearing in mind that it is a conditioned reinforcement, which is strong but not as strong as primary. I think the weaves need a LOT of primary, instant reinforcement throughout the dogs’ careers to keep the individual value high. So in agility, we have to do both – reward with a primary reinforcement like food or a toy at the weave exit, as well as build up the value so they can be a happy part of a sequence. Agility is complex! And I am also careful to not rely on other obstacles as the conditioned reinforcement, for those moments when the dog pops at pole 10 and runs into the tunnel 🙂 If the tunnel is the highest value reinforcement at the moment in the behavior sequence, it gets tricky about training the weaves to completion and fluency. So I do a lot of rewards specific for the weaves (including in trials) and build them in carefully to the fuller sequences as you mentioned).
Agility reinforcement sure does get complicated LOL! But I love to obsess about it!
>>PS Are ou going to be doing any puppy classes in the near future?
We are currently in week 5 of our big MaxPup foundation class (still open for auditors!). We won’t start it again til late spring or early summer (which is fine because we have a lot of 8 and 9 month old pups in it :))
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Social butterfly is a nice problem to have 🙂 You can take the engagement procedures and insert people and dogs into them! So for example: that get it procedure with tossed/dropped treats – as soon as he understands it with random easy distractions (I think he already has this skill) add in people distractions such as walking by people in chairs, people smiling at him (he is cute :)), gate steward calling his name, etc. Start with one boring person and work up from there 🙂 And then of course you can add in other dogs too!
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
You are always welcome to post video, of course, and definitely post it if my ideas aren’t working 🙂
I think we just need to jumpstart the behavior and that will help her, then it will all be easy 🙂You might be trying all or some of these, so let me know what is working or not 🙂 Here are some ideas:
– scrunch the tunnel up so it is as short as possible, so it is super easy and also easy to see the reward on the other side.
– place her reward on the other side, making it really visible, and don’t have anything in your hands in case she is looking to you for reward– revisit the turn away on the flat games, for the tandem turn foundation (this is the advanced level of the Turn Away from last week) just to help her understand turning away – then do it on the flat, near the tunnel to warm up the skill, then try it with the tunnel. And when you add it to the tunnel, you can totally help her by using the hand motions.
– you can also start on her stronger side (I can’t remember if she is lefty or righty) – turning to her preferred side can help start the understanding and then it is easy to transfer to her less comfy side)
– start her on the easiest possible angle, so the tunnel entry is super easy and th turning away is minimal.When she understands it, it will be easy to add harder angles.
Keep me posted about what works! I think all she needs is that one lightbulb moment then it will be easy 🙂
TracyGood morning! Hooray for blue skies!!!!!
These handling combos looked great – the dog training goal is that he is able to commit as you move away, do excel & pivot with a BIG toy distraction, then drive out to the toy when cued. He gets a big gold star for being perfect on all of those! Yay! My only suggestions are handling suggestions, and that is really fun that a pup is ready for handling feedback for the dad LOL!
Little ideas for you:
You can now start sending to the wrap from further back, so you have time to get the FC (or blind cross) finished before he exits. When you start close, he is VERY quick and you are a little late finishing 🙂 Ideally, you are starting the FC or blind just as he arrives at the wing. Then soon enough, you will be starting it before he arrives at the wing. Move away and start earlier very gradually, to maintain his commitment (better to be late with commitment for now than it is to be early without commitment).
When you are getting ready for the decel, be sure to have your arm back towards him as he exits the wing wrap, so you can make connection to show him which side you want – then when you sees the connection, you can drop your decel hand in for the pivot. At :14,you didn’t get the connection and went straight to the decel hand dropped in, so he didn’t see which side to be on. Compare that to :32 after the blind, where you made a VERY clear strong connection and then did the decel – lovely!
And (although this will be less of an issue as you add more distance and start the crosses sooner) – for now, try to decel immediately after the blind (as you make connection). He is getting faster and faster, which is great! But at :38 he was going really fast so your decel was a little late (which is why he was blasting past you :))Great job on these! Feel free to make up your own “courses” 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>What is your reaction? Obviously, it’s too early to do this. I’m not sure something stationery, like a Cato board, is the something to do after the seesaw – I’m more inclined to make it a moving toy of some sort or a food toy. Perhaps, later, something like a tunnel where she is moving away.
I think her idea is really good for later on, but not for now. And I agree with you about letting her move away fast from the teeter! Letting her run away from the teeter as part of the reward uses both positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement! For example, if she touches the end of the teeter and we throw a ball for her to chase, the ball is the positive reinforcement (adding something she likes) and the opportunity to move away from the teeter is negative reinforcement (taking away something she doesn’t like: taking away the teeter :)) . Both types of reinforcement will help build the behavior!
Tracy
