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Hi!
The tunnel threadle get used when the dog is rubbing on a line towards a tunnel entry, and we want her to come off that line and take the other entry (the one closer to you).
So for the sequence on the video, connect sooner on the exit of the first tunnel to set the line (less arm, more eye contact :)) and she will get on the line sooner.
I think the video showed the correct side of the tunnel here on the 2nd tunnel and it doesnt need a tunnel threadle. If she was cutting behind you on the way to that tunnel, my guess is you were pointing forward so she thought it was a blind and cut behind you.
Let me know if that makes sense. We will definitely add more tunnel threadles to build up understanding.
THi!
I think you are generally handling this just fine! Look at Sassy – she is so inexperienced, yet she nailed it independently while you were moving away. I think that Maisy would like you to stand still at the backside circle wrap wing 🙂 But she is too fast for standing still!When you moved forward too early or with speed, she flipped to the tunnel. When you didn’t move much at all… she got it. So we need to teach Maisy to let you move! Sassy is naturally less motion sensitive than a BC, but we have also really emphasized the countermotion with Sassy and her friends 🙂
So for Maisy, 2 ideas:
– for now, just use a wing instead of the jump for a sessin or two.
– let’s approach this skill the same way we did on the 2nd sequence backside slice, getting the dogs to default to taking the jump: cue the wing wrap as art of the sequence and be movin gslowly the whole time. When she gets to the backside and turns her head to the wing – throw a great toy on behin dyou on the landing spot, while you continue to move forward.When she can do it with you walking the whole time… we go to jogging, then running…. all with the reward dropped on landing side. When she can let you jog, we add back the bar. And when you can run AND the bar is there, we put the whole sequence together.
She is very smart, it won’t take her long at all, and then she will have excellent countermotion commitment like Sassy does!
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
I am glad you have fence posts AND internet now! Sounds like a crazy week!
>> (is that a German turn???).
Yes -push to a backside followed by a countermotion wrap blind exit? German turn 🙂
Looking at the sequences in the order they were on the video:
Great job sending her to the backside and getting outta there on seq 2! I bet you can send to the backside from even further away (closer to the exit wing) so you can get outta there for the blind from further ahead – her commitment looks great!
On the sequence 1 backside slice warm up, you were a little late on the blind at :15 (she was jumping and you were not yet past the wing so she was a little wide. Leading out more laterally on 1-2 would work to get you past the exit wing because you would be able to push to the backside from further away rather than try to outrun her 🙂
The flip away to the tunnel worked well! I think you can be even closer to the jump for that, so she looks at you less.
Seq 3: Looking great! On the 3 jump, you can try more of a send and go, peeling away to 4, rathre than a forward facing decel, to see which she reads better and is faster. The backside push and blind looked fabulous!
Full seq 1 – really nice opening! You ad a little disconnect at 1:36 on 6-7 so she almost did a blind cross. That discombobulated you for the left verbal, you did it too long and the backside verbal was late but you got it done! The next rep was much smoother throughout, well-connected and that last flip to the tunnel was FABULOUS!!! And because you are such a fast runner and Min knows her lines so well – I think the German turn on this sequence will be ultimately faster. You can get it by sending to 6 rather than moving to it, and handling 6-7 more laterally. That will put you further across the bar and easily able to get the German. It is good to have the flip away too, in moments where the German is either impossible or you need to layer.
Great job!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>it seems like so many apps are outdated, incompatible etc. Sorry for the delay.
No worries – editing is the worst part of it all LOL! And then everything gets outdated when there is an update. Sigh.
>>I did a few rewards after the tunnel. I think she was driving out a bit more but not sure I got it in the courses…here is an example.
This short clip looked great! You can add the reward to the courses by having a toy placed out there mid-course – surprise, Artie Ross, your toy toy is there! She will be happy 🙂 Since we know she can run big full courses, you can add in the reinforcement to help her drive forward more on those big runs.
>>It was a warm day…and I think my brain was overheated….I felt like I forgot to use my verbals frequently!!!
It has been hotter than the surface of the sun lately – I understand the brain fry! Did you jog the course at speed before trying it? If you walk it (literally, walking) but don’t try to jog it – the verbals might not pop out correctly during the actual run. I will be bugging everyone about that later this summer hahaha!
Artie Jumpers 1 – Lovely opening! Did she go downstairs in that first tunnel? LOL!
At ;17, on the 5-6-7 line – do a blind (I bugged Nelci about that too haha) – you were started it a little late, probably because you were starting just from the tunnel – but the BC there would be faster to complete and much easier for you too!
She head checked on the way to 8 at :22 – your arm was out and your body was fully turned away, so she looked at you to confirm the verbal. You can be beginning to leave but keep your arm back and look at her so she sees the support on the line
LOVELY blind 10-11 at :27!
When she lands form 10, give her a decel, shoulder turn or brake arm, and left verbal. She did not know you wanted a turn there.
At :36 you go t the backside at 14 but using a big connection and moving towards the center of the bar – start that physical and verbal cue as she is lifting for jump 13, so she sees it when she lands and next turns to the front of 14.
The go line 15-16-17 is a good place to have the toy planted on the ground to get her to go straight on the go cues 🙂
Haha “maybe I should have said left” for the last tunnel 🙂 Yes! And say it sooner: Nelci said it before she went in and you said it after she went in (Nelci wasn’t running, so it was easy to get the timing there LOL!!) That really helped set up a great ending line 🙂
>>I felt like Artie was slowing down so I tried to run this course with Maewyn. Big difference on her ability to drive lines. I don’t really plan on submitting videos for Maewyn but since Artie was so tired….I thought this might be ok.
Totally OK! Artie was HOT HOT HOT by the end so it was smart to switch out dogs. Mae showed her experience with her line driving here, plus I think you trust her more (you’ve been a team a lot longer with her!)
The opening looked great! I stand by my opinion that the BC 6-7 will be so much easier – both of your girls are incredibly responsive, so I would be shocked if either of them went into the off course tunnel.
Maewyn drove the line to the 8 tunnel really well, but also note how well you connected and kept your arm down – perfect! Do that with Artie too.
(And remember to be saying go jump before they go into 8)Your call to Maewyn 11-12 was a little late, but she turned. Both girls need the turn info as soon as possible after landing of 10.
The rest looked lovely! I think she didn’t need the serp arm on the jump after the last tunnel, I bet you can just stay connected then do the blind.Course 2:
Loved the BC 3-4! That set up a really nicely opening, especially with the left and in verbas! You had a little head check on the way to the tunnel at 1:02, but you were decelerating so she had a little question.On the ‘close’ tunnel threadle cue, if she needs a flick back to the tunnel, do it sooner – as soon as you see her looking at you, you can flick her back because she was looking at you for a long time there until you flicked her back to the tunnel.
She read the left verbal to the in in threadle really nicely the first time! On the 2nd run, she was really hot and you were faced totally forward so she couldn’t see a connection at 1:14, so she slowed down a lot there, Having your arm back and looking at her eyes will support that even when she is hot
She gave you a head check at :23 on the way to the tunnel – you were saying tunnel but turned entirely away, so she questioned the cue. It was the same thing that caused the head check at the 8 tunnel on the first course – turning away too soon. So, no need to rush away, support the line for longer, you will still have plenty of time to get to the next spot – you were actually too early getting to the wrap wing at :26, and when you rotated too soon, she read the pressure as a backside cue. Good girl! (You told her that you were not pushing on her 0 you actually were pushing on her – watch your feet there :)) The dogs are always right, those little devils hahaha You moved forward better at on the 2nd run and she got it but she had big questions because you were not connected at all.
She gave a little head check on the next run there too at 1:20 – I thought you were better about running forward and not pulling away, but she might be in the habit of checking because you pull away a lot (more on that below)
The ending line looked good, even though it was clearly hotter than Hades! Well done!
So since she has a habit of head checking before tunnels, 2 ideas for you:
– from the handling perspective, be 1000% sure to drive forward to tunnels and don’t turn too soon. for now, be late! Ha!– and from the training side of things – the toys can be placed to tossed after tunnels all the time in the middle of these courses, to help get her in the habit of looking forward no matter what happens.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I saw an email from you and now I can’t find it… it was about using the courses and games for your classes. Perfectly fine to use them and I really appreciate you asking!!! And if it is something that needs a demo and you don’t have Nox available, you can pull up a video in class if someone needs to see a demo. Thanks for asking 🙂 I know you will be able to pass along the info brilliantly to your students, and put your own twist on it too!
On the videos: well done, especially with your emphasis on connection and timing! We are juts needing to solidify a few of the crazier skills 🙂 but otherwise you and Nox looked great 🙂 And with the improved connection and verbals and timing, her jumping looks good too!
Course 1 round 2: Terrific!
Loved your opening! Loved the middle! Loved the end!
Look at your BC 6-7! SO NICE!
I don’t think you need the spin at 7-8, you can just send and go, but your timing on the 2nd run was really good!One tweak: at the 12 backside, keep your shoulders open to her, facing the jump, because it is a serp so that can help her see the line to 13 better.
The Double blind is improving but it is a low priority you started the first one nicely, now just stay a little closer to the 14 jump and make more connection on the 2nd blind (but again, it is a low priority 🙂 I think getting her to take the jump on backside slices is a higher priority).
You pulled off the last tunnel a shade too soon at the end on the 1st and last runs, keep your shoulders facing her (stay connected as you noted on the 3rd run, more eye contact there as you cue the tunnel verbal). You were perfect in your support of it on the 2nd run and still easily got to the blind before the last line.
AND FABULOUS JOB NAILING THE BACKSIDE AT 2:30!!!
Backsides training:
When sending to the backside from a high speed entry, this is going to sound counterintiutive but keeping your dog-side arm WAY back and your eyes on her eyes very directly will help a lot (as you keep moving) If you point forward at all, she reads it as a shoulder turn to the front side of the jump. And good job getting that reward in on the landing side, keep dropping it in as early as possible!
Nox is VERY similar to my Voodoo (they even look alike, in many ways :)) so that connected, forceful backside handling is effective. Here is a visual (demos are at the end). I use an outside arm with the dogs too, sometimes:
Course 2:
>>we don’t have a threadle cue, and I’m not quite sure how to train it. I’m hoping there is some more practice on that in camp or in the puppy foundations class (we’re going VERY slowly through the games, lol). >>
We do start it in the puppy class – it begins with the strike a pose game and builds from there. And we do it on tunnels too in the puppy class 🙂 And take a look at this and see if it helps:
The opening looked good!
Nice blind on 4 each time and she read the tunnel threadle nicely based on your lateral position – if you were able to decel and turn and pull laterally when she was halfway between the 2 jumps before the tunnel, she got it like on the 1st rep and at 4:13. When you were later or didn’t decel/call her – she went straight.Your threadle at :11 was good – you can bring her in and send her out on the same arm as you move to the jump, rather than pointing forward which might send her past the jump.
The wrap after the tunnel went well overall. On the first rep at :19, you stepped to the RC line and that is why she turned that way. On the other reps, you used a decel and faced the wrap wing, and she knew which way to turn. Yay!
At :34 when you got behind her on the line – you ended up pointing forward on the send which turned your shoulders away from the jump you wanted. When you looked at her on the send, she was great at 1:26 and 4:36! There is a big difference in how the low arms and eye contact really helped her there 🙂
On the backside at the end, where she had a LOT of opinions, use a bit more dog-side leg to step into it. But, since the handling was getting her to the correct jump but she didn’t know to take the bar, the same game of teaching her to take the jump on a backside applies here too: when she arrives at the backside wing, toss the toy behind you to the landing area as you continue to move forward. That will help her default to taking the jump in that situation.
>>Do you think it would be more beneficial to work on the 2nd jumpers course some more or set the live sequences?>>
The live sequences, to begin working on those crazy tunnel-jump discriminations and the backside jumping.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! So many lovely pieces of this course – BIG pieces of it too! Specifically, 3-8 was fabulous every time, and then you worked 9 (more below) and then 3-11 got awesome!!! And 15-end was great each time you ran it – really strong!!! The only thing I would add to those sections is to givethe directional for the next part after a tunnel – BEFORE he enters the tunnel. So on th last line, when he is still at least 4 or 5 feet from the tunnel entry, give the turn cue or name call (no time for breathing hahaha)
Also, when something went awry, you were generally awesome about just staying ni motion and carrying on line it was part of the course – note how he was very happy with that and was fast & focysed when you did that. When you stopped and he was informed of an error (either by withholding rienforcement or by stopping & delivering a cookie), he started to lose focus: he checked out at about 2:30 when you were stopping fo a skill he didn’t know how to do, and at 3:29 there had been too many stops and I think he tried to grab you shoe? So…. if you ask for a skill once and he can’t do it, either handle it very clearly for him or set it aside for training – no more than 2 failures for the entire session will help him be fast and focused and happily engaged 🙂
>> I need to work 1-2 in my yard.
That can be either a threadle or a moving blind, you worked both. For the threadle, stand still in threadle position longer, til he is on the correct side of the jump and looking at #2 – you were moving a bit too soon. And on the blind, you will want to let him land from 1 while you are moving, and then start the blind 🙂
>>I had issues on 9. In order to get him to take it, I needed an extra step forward, which that put me out of position for a blind. Thoughts on that?
Yes, that is a challenging section!! As you send him t othe 8 tunnel, begin the verbal GO and jump cues when he is still 4 or 5 feet away from entering – and keep your arm back, eyes on him, and accelerate on a line that is parallel (but lateral) to the exit line you want. On the first couple of attempts you had a high arm and you had turned to 10. Things went a lot of better when you had a lower arm and more connection, and when you rewarded past 9. The more you work that skill, the easier the blind becomes, but for now that rear cross will work really nicely! On the way to 11, he needed an earlier left cue and decel to get the turn to 12 – when you were accerelating and late with the left, he was correctly locking onto the off course jump
>>And backsides at speed and with another obstacle close by. I really shouldn’t have reinforced when he went around the back on my push cue, but then didn’t take the jump. That’s a small piece I can work in my yard, too.>>
No worries about the backside at 12 and 14, he knows to get to the backside but doesn’t really know yet what to do when he arrives on the backside 🙂 It was perfectly fine to reward him when he got to the backside, he made a wonderful effort to get it right! Reward by throwing to the landing side of the jump, to help him learn to take the jump.
Check out Sequence 2 of the live class we did last week – this backside jumping is addressed specifically an a game to help create the understanding of what to do upon arrival at the backside 🙂 That way you can trust he will jump it and you won’t have to handle it. And, that part of it should totally fit in your yard!
>., so I am getting a lot less practice time than I would like. But this was a good session because I had all the time I needed to work on things and it was only a million degrees in the morning!>>
Yes, it has been crazy hot!!!!! But so much of this went really well, that you can work little pieces at home (even indoors if you have a rug, doing 1 jump backside work for example :))
Great job here!! Let me know what you think 🙂
TracyHi!
>> I just got started on the head space course and some observations: My perception of how we did was much worse than the videos look. I wonder if I should look at the video before I decide what to change for the next run. I think he was hot and tired for the last set of runs but he was excited to go outside for them so I wonder if my perceptions of the “terrible run” might be leaking out a bit and affecting him.
Good observation! Our inner voice is a BIG critic, right? Yes, if you get into the head space of “That was terrible” or if you don’t know how to fix something – totally watch the video!
Also, tell your Inner Critic that these training courses are insanely challenging (on purpose) and are meant for training, not for running clean 🙂 Save the clean runs for the trials!
And yes, the dogs can smell our stress, read our changes in body language, etc. So it is entirely possible that it affected him (also, it has been really hot!)
Looking at the video –
Runs 1 and 2:
Overall, there is a ton of good stuff here! Lots of good connection, plenty of elements went really well, and you kept moving all the time. Lovely!
To get the 3-4 line, strategize to send to 1 from further away so that you are further ahead past 3 to push to 4. How far away can you send it 1? The other thing tat will help is to not go as close to 3, as that got you stuck behind the wing there on the 2nd run, which made it hard to get 4.
For 6-7 The RC (or the wrap towards you) will work if you decel as he is approaching 6, then turn and face 7 – that will smooth out either option because it will turn him to face the bar. When he had questions, it was because you were facing forward and didn’t decel to turn. The rear cross will set a better line to the tunnel.
On the first run – No time to praise 10-11-12 – just the facts, ma’am, only give info not love while you are on course LOL The next cue is a reinforcement! You got 11, praised him on that first run, he didn’t know about 12 then dropped the bar when he came back to get it.
On the 2nd run, nice blind there! As he lands from 10 at 1:10, start to decelerate and turn, so he collects before 11. You were running very forward so he was convinced you wanted a straight line. That was part of why he dropped 12 there too, the other reason is that you turned forward and disconnected as he was approaching 12, so he dropped his feet there.On the first run at the 14 backside, you did the wrap, and then you did the slice on the 2nd run. Good job getting him to the backside on BOTH!!!! That is a hard section. The slice is a faster line – so do that again 🙂 You did a threadle to pull him in and then sent him back out and it worked well!
That 17 tunnel is not really on a straight line from 15 and 16 (many dogs are running into the same trouble there) – the Go cue there indicates a straight line to the tunnel exit. So be sure to push him out to get it rather than run straight. That put you behind for the ending but good job staying in motion. For the ending, you can leave your manners minder out on the line past the last jump, and use it to reward him for driving ahead instead of sassing you 🙂
Runs 3 and 4:
I think the 3rd and 4th runs were too much for now – this course was a big course and he was too tired or hot to do it twice more. So doing 2 runs, then reviewing your video, then planning the next session for hours later or the next day (maybe when it is cool in the morning) will be better to maintain his speed.
On run 3, he was definitely not feeling it in the opening section so if you see that you can change things to start at a tunnel or just reward and save things for another day. You were able to get more of the handling done, but he was not running as much and we don’t want him to do agility slowly 🙂 And by run 4, he was walking in the opening…. definitely not something to rehearse, so you can do a fast fun line and be finished. It was hard to tell the a lot about the handling choices because he was not driving like he was on runs 1 and 2, so it is definitely worth it to try again when he is feeling cool and feisty 🙂 Plus, it brings a real feel-good feeling to agility 🙂To put it in perspective, my 2 year old BorderWhippet is insanely fit (I am jealous haha), he is light in color so doesn’t absorb the heat as much as the black dogs, and he has NO coat… and 2 big fast runs in the heat are about all he can take. Then he is hot for HOURS. I can’t run him again that day if we have a session, it is too hot. So I am thinking even though Buccleigh appeared cool during the break, he was probably still hot and that is why he was not his usually feisty self on runs 3 and 4. So those runs can be done the next day.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy>>So for sure a missing skill, we need to work on. 🙂
Everything else looks great, so adding this skill will give you even more independence 🙂
Hi!
>>I hope my description of what we’ve been struggling with makes sense.
Absolutely! Reinforcement is tricky. She is able to do non-agility behavior in the presence of a toy, probably because it is lower arousal and a different reinforcement history. The agility will follow with more practice but for now, what if you have a small toy tucked I’m a pocket? Or tasty cookies? We don’t need them to be precisuon rewards, so they can be in your pocket or tucked into your waistband – easily accessible but not visible? That might be a good way to bridge the gap. Let me know what you think!
TracyYay! Super fun that you got to watch and play!!!
On the first game – I think she comes out of that tunnel faster than you think so you were a little late for the first few reps 🙂 A :25, the timing was getting earlier and earlier, which is good! At :25, you were rotating as she was passing your leg: perfect for when you are moving into the wing!
The same thing happened on the other side -the first 2 reps were a little late and then you started nailing it. I think you were earlier on the spins, because you had to be earlier in order to get to the BC part of it. You might have been trying to get rotated to do a throw back, which was slow you down – you don’t need to think of these as a throwback or even indicate the wing with your outside arm for the spins: the acceleration/deceleration is what commits her, so the rotation is mainly about you getting outta there for the FC and the spins 🙂
I agree, her commitment looks great so you can keep playing with seeing how early you can commit and leave 🙂
Game 2 looked good too! Did you see the part in the live class where we had a couple of the handlers show the reward across the body, to push the dog-side arm back and out of the way on the blind exit to get better connection? That is going to be helpful with her too, and it will keep your wings in even more 🙂 I liked your timing at :12 and you had very clear connection from the WINGS IN! Yay!
One thing you were doing was getting a little ahead and then instead of deceling or starting the blind… you were giving her a big send to the wing (:33, for example). That sends her long and delays the info. The moving into it and deceling into the turn will set up the tightest blinds.On the FC exit after wrapping the middle wing, you can go back to the entry of the tunnel that was the same as #1 – that adds more countermotion. She had a little trouble with the left turns on the center wrap, so you can slow down your motion on that to strengthen the wraps in that direction (no trouble to the right)
Great job here! Glad you got to play with it today!
TracyHi!
Seq 3:
Try a send-and-go on jump 1. Doing a spin on 1 actually makes you late for 2-3, so try to send & leave. She turns really well, so doesn’t need the spin. That was part of why the bar came down at :16 – a little late with the connection and cues on the way to the tunnel, so she was trying to adjust.For the backside at 3: yes, definitely do this on a lower bar – she is making a few errors (like running around the jump at :43) which indicate that this is too hard at full height. And she gets it with handling help like decel or an arm cue, but we want to train independence so the lower bar is the start to that – make it easier so she can be independent and successful. You can see it at 1:40 too when she ran right past it when you tried to leave. So, this skill needs to move into the 2nd failure rule – she failed more than twice, so you need to break it down – you helped her on the last rep by staying there and indicating it, but for now to build the skill, lower the bar and drop the toy behind you on all the reps.
Full sequence:
The wrap 3-4 looked good with the spin! You did a post turn at 1:33, it was wider than the spin line. It might be tighter if you send and leave instead of round the line with her but I think the spin is probably the best choice there.
She did not get the backside at 6 the first time through… the verbal was good but the physical cue did not support it (you were facing the front of the jump). Rather than tell her uh oh and stop, just keep going to build confidence and team work, and fix it on the next rep with a stronger physical cue to support the verbal like you did at 1;20 and especially at 1:40 and 1:56!!! 🙂 That was SUPER nice – on time lifting off for 5) and very clear.Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
A couple of ideas for you on this one:
>>I’m not sure where the twist verbal really needs to be for her.
She was going to the backside nicely, so you can keep moving across the wing to the exit wing – when she is approaching takeoff and you are near the exit wing, you can be cueing the twist to turn her away. You were turning away from the bar too much, which made the twist really hard because she was reading the line back towards 1 based on motion.
Definitely work the default bar on the backside because she flicked away from it and into the tunnel a few times. That default understanding (more below) will make the twist timing easier because you can trust she will take the jump automatically.
Seq 2: this is a great skill for her! Totally hat she needs! Lower the bars so she doesn’t do the backside jump at full height, it is too difficult to get commitment and drop the toy at full height. Put it at 12” so you can drop the toy and keep moving, making it really easy for her. When it is easy at 12, we can start raising the bar – but be sure that you don’t help with handling 🙂 We want to create a really independent behavior, so that placement of reinforcement (early and often!) will help get it.
Nice work! Onwards to sequence 3!
Hi!
>>I liked the way the teamwork started to feel between us, but I don’t know if I would have the guts to try this handling at a trial.
At a trial, throw caution to the wind and handle aggressively!
On the video:
Bearing in mind that tunnel cues are relative to the line you set, you were a little too early moving to the layering – she was not yet looking at the line to the tunnel. More motion and a directional will help there. But also make sure you walk the lines of the actual course build, not the map – the tunnel here was not on the straight line, it was a right turn away, which is why she was having trouble finding it even on the 2nd rep when you went in closer.The layering on the 6-7-8 line worked well! And then the bind was hard, but you can flip her away to the tunnel like we did in the live class 🙂
Nice blind on the 10-11 line! She needs a bit of a ‘left’ cue and maybe a little brake arm to get a tighter turn to the backside there.
The timing of the backside verbal for 14 was good at :46, but the physical cue was not as clear – you turned forward and then got quiet so she ended up on the front side of the bar. Your physical cue was MUCH clearer at 1:11 and she got it beautifully 🙂
That 17 tunnel is also offset, not a straight line from 15-16, so she probably needs and out cue to get it if you are not close to the line. Brings rewards with you, so you can reward in the moment when she finds a line that is correct even if it is not what you wanted 🙂 It looks like you used the out arm but not the out verbal at 1:15 and exaggerated it even more at 1:23 and she got it 🙂 lovely blind on the ending line!!
So definitely keep up with the early cues, and make sure you walk the lines of the course build to see if it differs from the map, so you can handle the lines differently if needed.
Great job!
Tracy
