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Hi!
>>You may notice we get a couple of these skills on the first time, but when I try to repeat it and “improve” things, it tends to backfire. I feel like we start second-guessing each other on timing/position. You’ll notice this, especially on the 2nd exercise and I bailed on the third when it started down that slippery slope again.
Yes, it is possible that she sees the repetition as a cue to offer something different. So if you have only small changes to make, you should do a different sequence and then come back to the one you wanted to tweak a little. If it is a MASSIVE change, you can do it immediately because the cues will look very different. If the cues are relatively the same, she might start 2nd guessing. This is especially true if she is not getting rewarded (like at :37 where she got stopped and petted, not rewarded). The video cutoff after each error so I couldn’t see if you were rewarding after stopping – ideally, you either reward her or just keep going, so she doesn’t perceive it as an error. Have a reward with you in your pocket, in case you have to stop and then you can reward her right there in the moment.
I think there were enough variations in the cues and timing here that she was not guessing, but actually responding to your cues correctly. So, before repeating it – re-walk the sequence to be absolutely sure of what you want to do differently and when to do it (and to repeat what went well).
On the video:
The first sequence looks good, in terms of timing, connection, etc. She had a little trouble finding the straight line 1-2-3 but it might be that the distances were a little tight for full height and the tunnel entry is definitely offset from the straight line from 2.Seq 2: The timing of the right verbal and physical cue was good on the first rep! So… keep moving 🙂 When you were standing still at :18, she almost came off the line. Looking at the 3 reps – the first 2 had the same timing of ending her to the tunnel, but the 3rd one you turned off the tunnel cue sooner (and it was generally quieter) and started to decel and turn before she took off for 2… so she didn’t go to the tunnel (she was correct)
On the reps where she did not turn on the tunnel exit, you were good with the verbal timing but your shoulders were facing the Go line when she exited the tunnel.
At :46, your shoulders turned forward to the tunnel exit she ended up driving to. You were much clearer on the cues for the last rep and she got it.Seq 3 also looked good – your verbal right for 4 was good but you will get a better turn if you turn your shoulders sooner (just after she exits the tunnel) and then send and leave or 5. On th first rep, you drop her nicely to 6! O the 2nd rep at 1:19 you were saying tunnel but you had turned away completely, so she followed your line (correctly). You can be moving away, but you will want to leave your shoulders open to her so that she can stay on her line. On the re-start at 1:26, you turned your shoulders away from the tunnel entry and started the right verbal too soon, so she came off the tunnel entry you wanted – the right verbal doesn’t need to start til she is locked onto the tunnel entry you want.
Seq 4 looked really good! You were well-connected and timely with all of your cues there! YAY!!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyI can totally relate to the trust part being hard! The best thing that I see with Moose it that he is 100% invested in doing what you say which is a good reason to trust him LOL!!!! Not all dogs are like that, but he totally is 🙂
Hi!
Lot of excellent work here!!>>The course was also set up in a large field and we kind of use the entire space, maybe be good may not be good, ha!!
I think it is great to use the big field!!!! It makes it more like a trial 🙂
>>my knee is still not 100%, you’ll see me limping towards the end
and my stride has also changed, it is very short and I am still favoring my right knee.>>I am sorry to hear you are in pain 🙁 We will emphasize verbals skills, distance work, and layering in coming weeks so that you do not have to rely on running hard. That way we can protect your knee for running and you can still have great course runs!
Some ideas for you:
Run 1:
Opening:
Opening can be done as a threadle (standing in threadle position at 2) or moving into a BC. Both of these options will move you up the line nicely, show him the line nicely, and save your knees! Rotation is hard on knees. Since he is well-trained with his verbals, I bet the threadle is the best option because you can already be in position and head directly to the next line. You ran into the blind on the 2nd run and it looked lovely!The left verbal on the tunnel at :07 might have been a bit early because it started before he went in, it is possible that he should have turned left on the tunnel exit. Your motion supported the line to 6 so he did not turn.
It looked like you did a FC 6-7 at :10 and definitely did one at 1:01 – I think a BC is a better option because you can do it sooner (no need to decel into rotation) and because it is easier on the knees.
And to get to that BC – you can play with sending to 3 and layering: while your verbals and connection support 4, you layer the purple jump can go directly to the 6-7 line. Basically, but the time he is looking at 3, your upper body and verbals can be telling him about 3-4-5 but your lower body can be moving away to get into position 6-7 for the blind. He reads blinds beautifully, so I am not worried about the off course tunnel potential – if you are somewhat on time, he will not look at the tunnel.
Middle section:
I think he fell or something in the #8 tunnel at :15, there was a lot of noise and it took him a while to get out of it. That threw of your timing but you still go the blind 10-11. YAY!
On the 2nd run, I think you were helping more than he needed: at 1:05 you stopped and rotated to him a little on the way to the 8 tunnel, which stopped your motion and then you had to rush – that contributed to the bar down at 9, along with the name calls and outside arm – he was on his way to 10 very nicely, so you didn’t need to help there – just run for the blind. Definitely trust him on that whole section 7-8-9-10 he was great!
On that 11 turn, your lateral motion was really good but you can also use a left verbal (starting when he lands from 10() to get a better turn on 11, then use the backside verbal for 12.
At :25, he took the front of 14 when you wanted the back. Two reasons for this: the verbal cue was late, you said jump as he was lifting off at 13 when you can already be giving the backside cues – the backside verbal came when he landing from 13, but your shoulders were turned forward so that late verbal plus the turned shoulders pulled him to the front. Note the difference in your timing of the cue at :33 and also at 1:14 – as he was taking off for 13, you were already saying the back verbal AND your shoulders were showing that line. Perfect! Yes, the a-frame there made it a bit busy but the timing was good 🙂
The 16-17 line and thee verbal before the tunnel #17 was great! I think you used left the first time but Iz the 2nd time, and the Iz is the correct one, yes? He turned really well! couldn’t see you as well there when he exited on the first run but I think you did a FC there on landing of 18 -and you definitely did a FC on the 2nd run – a BC would be faster and easier there. It can be a serp to blind if you feel he was not coming in over 18 that well, but that is still easier and faster than the FC.
Course 2:
>>Second and last, the second course (black circles), was very hard for me to remember. I need to be more diligent at feeling confident with the course before I run it. I felt a bit rushed and I did not have a good handle of the course. So it is in pieces.You can plan for more walk through time before running it – try to get to the point where you can jog it successfully all the way through… then try it with Grizzly 🙂
When you did gt it going, it looked lovely!
On the Opening, you were able to send, cue, and keep moving. NICE! And on the tunnel discrimination, he got that really nicely at 1:58 and 2:25 – you probably don’t have time to praise him for that before giving the next info, the praise there makes the info late especially because he can’t see you in the tunnel.At 2:05 he did not get the left and the tunnel threadle, probably because you were facing straight and not turned (or he know it was the wrong course LOL!) He got it beautifully at 2:55 because you were fully turned and a cueing earlier (it was 2 strides from takeoff and that really helped) – that turn to face the line made a big difference for him!
The wrap back to the tunnel looked great at 2:46!Interesting that he didn’t get the in in jump threadle at 2:32 even with the rotated feet. It was late, but not *that* late LOL!! But you did it MUCH earlier at 2:36 and that totally helped him. He was about 2 strides from takeoff there and that is a good early timing for him on the threadle.
The ending line looked really nice, because he has independent tunnel commitment and turns, you were able to get way down the line for the backside. NICE! He was a little wide on the exit of the backside wrap – you hd a lot of acceleration and pulled to your left at 3:00, so he didn’t know it was a wrap til after he was approaching it at 3:01. To work the wrap line, drive straight down to the backside wing (where. The wing meets the bar) and decelerate for a heartbeat… then accelerate again when he passes you. That should get all the speed and a nice tight turn.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyThank you for all the videos, I will obsess on them on a bigger screen this afternoon when the puppy class is over 🙂 But some quick thoughts – there is nothing that made me too worried here (sometimes there are some really worrisome things with jumping!). Some of the bars were timing blips, just late timing so she tried to adjust over the bar. The fall moment (I think you were referring to where she fell on her head on that clip?) was a late timing moment too. The early takeoff spot at the end of the first video was partially caused by a sudden shift into acceleration and excitement from you 🙂 and her not understanding how to get her hind end into a powerful organization for liftoff when things are REALLY exciting 🙂 That involves hind end organization, core strength, etc – what is her current conditioning program? Are you doing any grids with her? I will pull up some videos of what we have added to the jump grids recently, to specifically work on the hind end organization at top speed so the dogs jump from their hind rather than try to do it all fro their front end. And what was going on with the tweaked pelvis, was she sore?
More later!!
TracyHi again!
>>We are doing a jump class with a jumping guru so hopefully will see improvement in skills.>>
Awesome! Which class is it?
O n the sequence:
A bit of a disconnection from 4 to 5 – when he was behind you, you pointed forward so it totally looked like a blind cross, good boy 🙂 Yo can probably turn sooner not he 4-5 line too, but stay connected. His turn was good at 12 inches but when the bar goes up you will probably need to start turning when he lands from 3, so he can adjust his takeoff for 4.
Yes, the bar down was definitely handler error 🙂 no problem rewarding it. What happened was when he landed from 8, you slammed into decel AND rotated all at once, so he turned back to 8. In that moment, rather than send him to 9 from an awkward angle (which is why the bar fell), you can keep going back to 10-11 and then reward, then start over.
Your timing was definitely better there on the next rep – decelerating as he was over 8 and landing from 9. But I think he will need to see it sooner. So as he goes into the 7 tunnel, run like mad towards 9 – but as soon as he is lifting off for 8, start your decel and wrap cues. Keep your transition like it was here, you were very smoooooth into the decel and then rotated, so he read it well. I think the earlier decel will also help him NOT take off so early for 8. The bar at :46 was also a bit of handler error – you were asking for acceleration and turned your shoulders away/broke connection so he had some questions and couldn’t quite get organized for jumping. Is the jumping class going to cover hind end power/organization at top speed? That is where he was having trouble (most dogs struggle with that!)
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
This is a great camera angle! I totally see the difference with where he was looking between the 1 and 2nd rep. On the first rep, you were a little later in your movement towards the last jump as he was committing to the tunnel. On the 2nd rep, you exploded to the last jump, so he was definitely looking straighter! He still had a tiny head check, so for go lines, you can place the reward out on the line so he gets used to looking straight when you are yelling go go go and running 🙂
On the 2nd video – I don’t mind the stride forward out of the tunnel the first time, because he was turning when he exited. The extra stride is him saying “where did you go?” Because you got quiet 🙂 so when you turn and leave, keep calling him so he can know where to look when he exits. He knew where you were on the 2nd rep, so we did not see him asking where you were. Both reps were lovely with verbals, connection, and timing of the turn cue on the tunnel! YAY!
Onwards to the next sequence!
Tracy
Onwards to standard! You’ve been busy!
First video: (and 2nd video, it is a duplicate) he had trouble finding the #3 jump, mainly because your running line was forward – then when he had 2, you accelerated and moved your arm forward, so he thought it was a straight line – you can try adding a bit of a pull away, and a turn verbal on 2 to help him out – I think you had a verbal but it was hard to hear it.
Was the 2nd link here the fuller run of this course? The next video is the next course.
Std 2: nice opening! You were crisp in your lead out – I agree that he likes when you move with intent to your lead out position, the jogging to the lead out was great! And well done getting the BC before the teeter 🙂
On the 2nd video, you changed his line up position and did more of a FC 1-2 and sent to 3. That worked well too! I think the BC to the teeter you did on the previous clip was clearer for him, flipping him away to it caused him to look at you before he turned.
Nice send to the 7 tunnel so you could layer the jumps and get ahead of him off the dog walk to the backside! YEAH! Worked like a charm!
When you started over – I liked his line up position and I LOVED your blind on the takeoff side of 3 – that was perfect and the best choice.
Does he had teeter worries? He was fine on the previous runs but definitely did NOT want to do it here. Or as there a different distraction? Your handling was clear so it is something about the teeter, perhaps? Then the video ended so I couldn’t see what was next 🙂
Really lovely work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Jumpers 1: This is a going well! A few ideas for you:
First video: he broke his stay and then was a bit worried… How much lead out do you have a trial? If he normally has a long lead out, that is great to use here. If he normally has a very short lead out, only use a short lead out in training too 🙂
The opening line looked great! The threadle 1-2-3 looked really clear and he easily found the line 3-4-5. You stopped at 6, but I think you can keep moving and get a blind cross there or a rear cross.
2nd video – I like your idea of handling from. The landing side of 7, as a serp! To get there when running the whole course, you can send to the tunnel and layer the jumps in the way, rather than running around them (we will be working more on layering soon :)) And to get him to come in on the jump, you can open your shoulders more, facing your shoulders to the jump and making eye contact with him.
It CRACKED ME UP when you were both talking about me being louder – YES! More verbals to help support the line LOL! That worked REALLY well and you also handled earlier and more clearly, getting the serp and flipping him away to the tunnel at :34. NICE!!! Then you were miles ahead for the next line, which is a REALLY good place to be 🙂
3rd video: Putting it all together 🙂 This went really well! The opening line looked great again 🙂 You were not quite as loud in the 5-6-7-8 section as you were in the previous video so he lost a bit if focus at 6 – but then your handling was very clear so he found the line. Try to combine that clear handling with the very loud verbals when he needs to stay on a line away from you – he seems to really respond well to that approach!
And being able to flip way to the tunnel got you WAY ahead, so you nailed the blind AND both of the backsides at 12 and 14. Fabulous!
As he is exiting the 15 tunnel, get those loud go go go verbals going and get more connection – you were a bit quieter (you said “over tunnel”) and you were looking forward a bit so he did not find the 17 tunnel.Very nice ending line!
So overall – that combination of connection and high powered verbals really gets him to drive lines away from you, so you can then get to where you need to be for the harder parts of the course. WELL DONE!!!
TracyGood morning! The videos are working, yay!!
Sequence 1 is looking good! The only suggestion is to add a GO verbal before he enter the tunnel and then keep saying it to support the line to the next jump. He hesitated a little because you were quiet and he can’t see you in the tunnel 🙂
Sequence 2 had just the right amount of verbal and physical cues: you called him before he went into the tunnel then kept calling him while you kept moving: perfect! He seemed tp have no questions at all.
Seq 3: Also super nice! Yes, there was a weird noise when he was on the start line but once he got started – it was really strong! I think you might have kept saying ‘tunnel’ instead of the come cue before the tunnel, so be sure to give the turn cue there instead of a forward cue. He say you turn, though, before he went in, so he turned nicely on the exit. I think you can push him more in that pinwheel – send him away to jump 5 then stay connected, use your jump and go verbals… but get outta there 🙂 The more ahead we can get you, the easier handling is and pinwheels are a great place to get ahead!
Seq 4: He also did well here! This is the hardest one in terms of timing, connection, etc. On the opening line, as he is landing from 3, you can be starting your here cue and shoulder turn – you did it right before takeoff, so he was already jumping straight. Started when he is landing from 3 will get a better turn.
He ended up on the wrong side of you at :20, but he was reading the cues correctly: as he was jumping 8, you bleed his name (so he looked at you) and then you pointed forward, ahead of him, to the wrap jump. From behind, that looked exactly like the beginning of a blind cross, because your connection was changing and your shoulders were changing. So he correctly did a blind, good boy! In that moment, when something like that happens – go with the flow and keep going then reward 🙂 He was correct then he got worried when you stopped. And then you can start at the beginning of the sequence or earlier, and get better connection to show it to him. The FC at the end will work perfectly there but the video ended before it.Nice work here! I will be in and out of the forum because of a live teaching commitment, so I will be back soon with feedback on your course work 🙂
Tracy
As you start a session, watch where he is looking: you brought him out to the tunnel with high energy, but he was looking away (lawn mower in the distance?) so he was not quite ready. So do more high energy tricks and give him a ready for each one. And then stand still for a moment… if he is looking at you, he is ready to do a sequence. If he is looking away? Not ready, try more engagement games and tricks. And of the whole session is about tricks and engagement? Perfect! That is harder than sequences and engagement makes handling easier.
The oopsies on the first rep were because he was not quite ready, good job staying in motion as that helps get engagement too. He was more ready on the 2nd rep, and did well! Your blind cross put you right at the wrong end of the tunnel, so that is where he went. You were clearer with connections on the next reps so he got it, but he sure to not run to the exit of the tunnel on the blind – run to the entry 🙂
On the teeter: I think it was smart to start him on it and just have him put his back feet on it then front feet. That really jump started the game for him! And he was really looking for the board with his back feet, good boy! Keep going like this, same amount of tip for now, until he happily backs up to a 4on position.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I really hope I’m not giving up, sure doesn’t feel like it, just trying to figure out how to keep him engaged and right now that’s food, food, and more food. I had these struggles with the other two, food was the only thing that worked . . . 4 years later I can use a tug toy with them if I never bring out the food, which is probably why I default to food, lol, it worked, ugh.
It is no a matter of giving up, it is a matter of not skipping steps and expanding the toolbox of reinforcement that you can use, and applying it. If we skip this step, yes he can learn agility for food from your hands, but it will limit how and which skills can be taught.
—Maybe I can put the teeter on its side?
That’s a good idea! And block it off a bit with some extra wings.
—-I am going back out tonight with his favorite tug toy and play first to get him really amped then move to equipment. I may also try the frisbee, he loves to chase it, but again, I’m not involved so that won’t work.—
Let’s just get him playing in that environment and then quit before trying more. A frisbee can work if he retrieves it because it is high value and many dogs also tug on frisbees.
—So I am not supposed to ever throw his reward / toy? It always needs to stay attached to me???
Of course we throw rewards. Each behavior will have a specific way to use the reward and throwing is part of it. Throwing a toy and playing (either going to get it or he retrieves it) or throwing a lotus ball or treat hugger then you go over and engage are great uses of reinforcement that also involve engagement. I’m trying to get you to not just drop a cookie or lotus ball then walk away. Also, for thrown or placed reinforcement, we need him to be able to engage with it by himself (grabbing it or opening it to get the food without you) in order for it to be most effective. And yes, in other situations, you do have him chase you for a toy or lotus ball on a toy in your hand, depends on the behavior.
—What do I do when I’m trying to get him to drive forward? Can I throw it then or pre place and race him??? I just watch everyone throwing toys, lotus balls so I’m soooo confused (not surprising).—
Yes, throw it. I think the demos have a ton of thrown rewards. Your habit it cookie dropping and disengaging, which is what we are trying to change.
—What about a treat pouch??? What are your thoughts on those? I know I can’t throw one because the reward isn’t immediate, but for something to drag and chase and I open?—
It might be useful to drag as a toy, tied to something long like you would do with the lotus ball. I don’t love it as a thrown reward because he can’t get the food without you being there.
On the video:
Bearing in mind that toy play is a lot more physical exertion for the dogs, you want to keep the sessions short and be done sooner. That’s why he initially did not want to play again – he was tired and probably waiting for cookies! Sitting down was definitely more enticing and that is great! Because this was his second session, a short session is best. And because he is little, tie that toy to something really long so he can chase it as you move (so you don’t bend over) as that seems to really light his fire. This session was MUCH more engaged! And faster. Ignore the bars – that will go away the more he gets used to training with toys and when he has fewer jump repetitions. Remember that less is more! Keep going like this, in short high energy blasts.
Tracy
Good morning!
No worries about being behind, life has been busy for you and we’ve got all summer to work these games. 🙂 I didn’t think you were making mistakes or in a bad head space in previous session, he just needed to figure it out 🙂This session was a combination of him having a chance to sort it out (latent learning), the wings a bit further apart, and you were very connected. It looked great! His wrap to the right at the beginning was lovely.
And he got his left turns here, hooray!!! No cutting behind the momma! You were a little late on the wrap, maybe because you were surprised at how well he got it 🙂That left turn section of the sequence was fully shaded in this video, maybe the bright sun yesterday did play a role when he was having trouble finding the left turns?
Great job here. And also terrific to end the session when he was getting it perfectly, no need to do a ton of reps 🙂
TracyGood morning!
—-will you show the jump instead of the tunnel? Not sure my yard is tunnel ready just yet!
Yes, I will draw it out but basically, a wing would replace each end of the tunnel and we would race track the dog around the wings 🙂
Motion override is going well when you were relatively stationary and slowly moving. I like how she is tucking her hind end! You can gradually add more motion – the error here was when you added a lot of motion, too big of a leap forward in challenge. Good job dialing it back, so she got it. The latency is a little high when you are moving, she is thinking HARD about it 🙂 so keep the moving very slow, snail’s pace, for now. You can add smaller steps and swinging arms a bit, to begin to give the running picture she will see in the future.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! So much great work here!
The teeter game is looking good, her confidence is building for sure. Those treats are magic! To help her out, I think you can stabilize the board more, in terms of movement and sound. Instead of a disc at the top end, prop it with something that won’t move. And, put a tunnel bag on the base so that stabilizes the center of the board under her and quiets it a bit for now – she was worried about the bouncing in the center. And you can help her off rather than ask her to turn around – she seemed a little worried about that. To help her turn around, you can have her turn around on the part that touches the ground, so she feels more stable, then you can get it higher and higher.
One step send: I think the sends are going really well! Good timing of the arm and leg, and good connection! Her only question was at :25 when you sent but didn’t connect so she was not as she about where to go. The cookie throws were good! Be sure that you send with the dog-side arm like you did at :55 and 1:04 then throw with the other hand, sometimes the throw was happening before the send. This is going well from a stand-still, so definitely good to move on to the games with more motion 🙂
Lazy game:
On your left, she was looking at you a bit on that first rep and my guess is that your arm position almost looked like a heel cue. You can relax your left hand so it is not in any possible heel cue position (or she might have been looking at it for possible cookies :)) – she probably has some value for heeling when your hand is up on your waist so he had a little more trouble committing. It was easier for her when your arm stayed down, and when she was on your right side where there is probably less heel value.Timing and connection: This is going really well – fast and fun!
Now that sequencing is adding a lot more speed and it relies on your cues… reward her if something goes wrong because she is reading your cues 🙂 For example, you said “go tunnel” at the right time at :08 but that as she was taking the jump, you turned towards the other tunnel entry – so she correctly followed you, as that was where the cue was telling her to go. Good girl! You were much clearer at :16 with driving to the tunnel you wanted, but both reps were rewardable because she responded correctly on both.When you switched sides, we can really see the results of the lazy game and send practice: PERFECT! She drove out on her lines and to the tunnel without looking back at you. YAY! And you were connected and showing each line really well – good timing, and good verbals. SUPER!!!! Onwards to the crosses!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
