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Hi!
She is a hoot! So energetic and quick (and cute haha!)
Great job with the target in your hand – you can create a little bit of a loop now: toss a treat away, then after she gets it and turns to come back towards you, hold out the target. She hits it – you toss the treat away – after she gets it and turns to come back towards you, hold out the target. She hits it… and so on 🙂 That can get her to move away a bit in between reps and also sets you up nicely for the game that uses this (it was posted last night :))The paper plate targeting was hilarious! She was trying to put herself inside the plate, I think LOL!!!!! You can use cookie tosses here too, to move her away and reset the next rep: toss a treat away, tell her to get it – place the plate down. When she hits it, click and toss the treat away (and so on :))
> I notice in videos she frequently offers a nose touch where I want a foot touch; will be working on the foot work more going forward.>
She seemed to be doing this on the plate – and clicking then tossing a treat will help her only foot touch because if the treat is going to be tossed, she will quickly figure out that it is inefficient to hit the plate with her nose or lie down when she is going to have to get up and go chase a cookie 🙂 I think she was doing the nose and the down because the cookies were down low… and clearly she likes her cookies LOL!!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think! I am looking forward to seeing more 🙂 she is definitely ready for the next games 🙂
TracyHi again!
He does have a TON of value of the target and that is GREAT!
I have a question about the get it: it looked like you were saying get it & tossing the cookie before he got to the target, almost as the cue to get him started? You can just make a silly noise or use movement to get him started here, and only use get it and the throw after he hits the target.
And you can reward from your hand when he needs to reset (he was wanting to start without you LOL!)On the RCs, he was driving ahead beautifully! Yo were able to cut behind him nice and early. My suggestion here is to toss the cookie reward in the new direction so he turns the new direction on the rears. You were throwing straight, so he wasn’t turning. His value for the prop should make it easy to get the rear crosses 🙂
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This was blind cross practice – one thing to remember is that it is about connection not hands. You were putting your hands nice and low but that doesn’t show him connection (he was watching the cookies more than following your blind cross cue. So rather than use cookie hands, get the side change by looking at him and then you can reward with the cookie hand 🙂You ight find it easier to use a cookie toss and not a stay, so you can be further away and have more time to make the connection after the blind. I couldn’t really see your shoulders/eyes on this video, but it looked like you were using your hand down by your side as the cue. So, more eye contact will get the blinds even sharper 🙂
>> It’s getting cold and we are supposed to get snow, soooo, I may be making several two hour-each way commutes each week, ugh.>>
Ewwww winter! You can probably also use hallways if you have any long hallways? Maybe throw some yoga mats down if you have wood floors?
T
This is also going really well! You were doing FCs (or I need more caffeine LOL!)
Only one little detail: when you were doing your Ready dance, your upper body can be as engaging and exciting as it was here, but stand still – your feet were moving around a lot and he didn’t always know where to be.He looked really good with his commitments and turning here! And you were leaving earlier and earlier! Great!!! So keep adding earlier leaving, and you can also add your verbal wrap cue(s) (as well as the games we added last night 🙂 I like his speed here!!
>>I can really leave as soon as I send in a bigger space
Great! Now gradually add more and more distance as long as the speed is good – no trotting, only running. Wheeeee! And, a toy if he will chase it as the reward.
Nice work!
TracyGood morning! Lots of good training on these videos!
First up – backing up:
He is definitely getting the idea here, yay! A couple of little suggestions as you keep building this up:
We can give him a focal point to keep his head lower: One option is to keep your hands lower, you might need to bend over a tiny bit, rather than dropping the treats in from above (he watches that and lifts his head, which makes it harder to back up fully). Or, if bending over is going to make your back angry, you can have an empty food bowl between your feet, and plop the treat into it so he focuses down to the bowl and not up to the cookie hands (and for efficiency and a lower head, use soft treats that don’t require crunching LOL!)One other thing I notice:
you are clicking him for stopping when he touches the mat with the back of his leg, not for stepping up onto it. That is fine, but you will get more independence and stepping up (less shuffling) if you get him stepping onto the mat. You can help him understand that by having the mat a little less folded up (so it is easier to step up onto) and also starting his back feet on it then luring him off so it is easy to step his back feet back onto it.>>think I’m ready to move it back an inch or two>>
I agree! He is doing well!!!
TracyGood morning!
You and Risk were terrific in class last night 🙂
>>We’ve been taking the games pretty slowly and I haven’t done a lot of turn & burn game with Risk simply because he’s still figuring out his body and where all his legs go. We are still building on week 1-2 games at this time. Is that ok to move slower?>>
Yes, it is great to move as slowly as needed so the pups can grow up while also having a great time 🙂 And he is not in his teething phase so toy play might be harder (but eating treats is really valuable to him :))
He is offering a strong amount of backing up for such a young dog!! And it is happening really quickly, he has fast feet LOL! I am excited to see this! A couple of ideas for you to get even more of this going:
Most pups use our hands as focal points, and that is fine – but it also means we want our hands to be really low in order to keep their heads low. So, Lyou can leave your hands down there at his nose level (or lower) – so I suggest you sit in a chair or on a low stool or something so you don’t have to bend in half as much 🙂 Because of his quickness, you can have several treats ready so you don’t have to reload. He was lifting his head to watch the reload – that is what you were noticing when you saw him watching the treats. You made a really good adjustment in the 2nd half of that session: Your hands were lower and faster on the 2nd part for sure and that is good!
Because he is so quick, you can also have him back up onto a target like a dog bed or low plank. Start him with all 4 feet on it, the lure front feet off by just an inch of two abd back feet stay on: then let him offer putting the front feet back on it. As soon as he figures that out, you can lure all 4 feet off then let him offering stepping back onto it. That will help him think about his little feet more 🙂 Do this one sitting too, to help keep his head low.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I think the outdoor worked pretty well! We can keep it in mind and I can do any of the bigger games first so you can work outside if you want 🙂
T
Good morning!
Sessions like this are so fun to watch – they are counterintuitive because we are not working in the operant realm of “do a thing, get a reward” to build value for the leash, we are working in the conditioned response/classical (brainwashing? LOL!) realm.
So the initial leash tugging was ok, but it was an operant thing and the leash was only medium valve to start with.
>>I brought out her laundry hamper wraps as these have huge value for her. Holy smokes… talk about transfer of value>
Right! That is why I am finding it easier to build value for a toy or leash using the framework of existing behaviors that already have a conditioned response of tugging – it sounds a little backwards but the dogs are conditioned to get a thing after doing a thing – so she clearly is conditioned to grab (and kill LOL) a toy when doing barrel wraps LOL!!! So, we just basically insert the new behavior (grab the leash) into the conditioned response and the dogs grab it because it is part of the reflexive expectation of the moment. It was really fun to see her do it!
She doesn’t really like strike in this context and the ‘feedback’ you got there was about her conditioned response: “MOM WE DO NOT STRIKE IN FRONT OF THE BARREL WE WRAP IT THEN I KILL THE TOY” (all caps because she was yelling LOL!) Ok, noted, thanks Promise 🙂 You did get a little bit of tugging with the ‘strike’ marker towards the end but it is not high on her list of reinforcement procedures. So, we can condition it:
get a little interaction with the strike – then cue the barrel wrap, then mark that with the cue to get the leash or chase it (and kill it :)) Strike becomes the gateway to the barrel wrap which appears to be a high value secondary reinforcement (or maybe running counts as a primary reinforcement)? Either way – you can build the strike by rewarding it with the barrel-then-leash kill. Totally backwards, right? Works like a charm!Her arousal was a little too high for a sit in this context, so you can mix in cookies for that which is great – value for cookies can come into this too and just get built into the “this is what we do” routine so she is conditioned to go back and forth between food and toys and work.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>In class Monday night, I was able to set up with Keiko (on leash) behind a tunnel while the other dogs were running so we could work on the “find it” cookie toss. The room for this particular class is small, so there are no barriers between the course and the waiting spot. Having the tunnel between us and the other dogs was our “fence.” Keiko did very well getting the cookies I tossed as we moved back and forth behind the tunnel. When another dog ran through the tunnel we were using, she would look up and then head immediately focus back for the “find it” game. I was really pleased and she seemed focused and connected.>>
Super!!!! This is good news!!!
>>Then came our turn. Smells haven’t been an issue at home, but boy, they really raced to the top of the distraction hierarchy in class! Keiko ran with me well, got her treat from me or the lotus ball, then went on a sniffing rampage. >>
So she started out perfectly fine, then got a reward, then couldn’t re-focus?
>> So, I had to revert to food. The instructor kept telling me to try different things (which I obviously did) to no avail.>>
I don’t think it was reverting to food, I think you were smart to go to a higher value reinforcement. Were the different things you tried with the food, or with toys?
>> Perhaps I should have just run away?
Run away dragging a toy to entice her to chase it? Maybe. Run away to hide to see if she would look for you? I don’t think that would have helped, it might have stressed her.
>>But I was hoping to get tugging going and connect that way. So – too much of a distraction to try our relatively new tugging games?
Definitely yes, but the real thing to think about it why it was so hard for her. So a few questions:
Is she normally focused and happy to work for treats in this class setting? (I think she is, based on previous posts).
Did she mentally ‘check out’ and have a sniff fest when you presented the toys, or was it before that?
Was she able to work for food and refocus, or was she just struggling to refocus at all?
When she was working behind the tunnel, how long was she out there for? I ask because it is possible that she got depleted by the mental effort of that game and had nothing left in the mental bank account to ignore a particularly stinky floor.
She is spayed, yes? So she is not coming into season.
Have you noticed any soreness or GI upset? It is possible she was not feeling great and had an ‘off’ night.So – since you are going back there on Saturday (yay!) – we can plan! We might want to do the focus/engagement work later in the session, so she doesn’t get mentally depleted (there are some really good studies nowadays about how being depleted causes dogs to be unable to make ‘good’ self-control decisions). You can try for toy play first thing, with the wildest toys, when she is freshest and before food comes into the picture. She might associate that ring with food, so being asked to tug might stress her a bit (“Mom, we EAT here we don’t TUG here” LOL!) And, bring amazing high value treats in case the sniff distraction is there.
Let me know more and we can plan more 🙂
TracyGood morning!
<< My joy has always been teaching him new things = high ROR and in general, Yes, and you have done it well. And I agree that new things need a high ROR and that reinforcement must be primary (cookies! or the tennis ball :)) and not secondary (continuing to work) >> working on his worries and anxieties has = high ROR.
Yes, and you have done a great job with that too!
Your work with the high ROR is why he is ready for us to now move forward 🙂
>>Now it’s time to focus on building delayed rewardnfor fluent skills, both food and toy, with the concentration probably on the food.
Yes – the primary gets delayed and the behavior in the moment is theoretically reinforced with the secondary reinforcement (opportunity to keep working, which has value!) And food is a main thing for him but using the tennis ball and his magical chill/tug mat is great to have too.
>>Again, toy play is never a problem when training, but can disappear at trials, probably due to his worries. I have never seen his food drive disappear and do work to protect that, the primary reason that I pay with high value treats.>>
Correct – reinforcement is in the eye of the reinforcement receiver 🙂 And it does indeed shift depending on the context. So if he loves food at trials, but not tugging? Perfectly fine to use food as the reinforcement.
>>We have the basics in place I think – per the attached video
– place the reward together
– go do the work
– return to the reward together on cue.
So now to work on building the duration of the work.>>Yes, he did really well here! I love how he saw you put the treats down and then was able to go into the ring and offer the line up and sit. He was good with the short obedience routine here and I a, guessing he would have also done well if it was an agility sequence. So the main thing now is to gameplan the remote reinforcement for agility runs.
I’ve been thinking about it and the timing light hex 🙂 – rather than build up the skill in a forward-fashion by starting at jump 1 on a course, I think you might have more success with some backchaining of the end of the run. What I mean by that is taking those timing light hex moments where he is heading towards what he perceives as the ring exit, passes through timing lights… but it is not the end and needs to turn away from it all and keep going. He probably has enough agility experience at this point that he can predict the end of most runs based on the context of how the course curves around … and then in the instances where it is NOT the end, he doesn’t really know how to continue and that might be confusing or stressful.
So isolating that turning away at the end will help – set up something that looks like an ending line and reinforce him for NOT going to the exit gate (both by reinforcing on course as he turns away from the exit, and sometimes using your remote reinforcement marker to run to the exit).And the other thing is to try to keep things unpredictable in training – the exit location should not always be paired with the ending of the course. And, adding in the leash as part of it will help too: keep going, Cody, til you hear your “let’s go get your leash” marker. Then, leash on, run out to cookies (if he wants to tug on the leash, great! But he doesn’t have to if he does not find it reinforcing)
>I’m also going to keep working on building value for the leash as a toy with the hope of eventually getting it usable at a trial. Got him laying on his leash on his mat now ant then tugging on either the leash or the mat.>>
Great! And also establishing the ‘leash on, time for remote reinforcement’ procedure will help too.
>>how often do you run Max Pup? Looking to take on a puppy in the spring, should I take on the material now or will there be sessions running in spring?>>
We do the working version of it twice a year – late Autumn (we are in week 4 of 12 right now) and then usually late spring/early summer (mid June). The June session might be perfect for a new puppy!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>> I do love the change to Combined Pairs and also love the “Covid” baton (or no longer baton) exchange – SO much safer all the way around. 🙂 I was thrilled with how well Sly was able to focus when he ran 2nd!!!
It looked really fun, both dogs were on fire! Maybe someday they will bring back strategic pairs?
>>Catching up on the Week 4 games, the time has sure gone quickly in this class – I’ve had a couple of folks that take lessons from me ask if you are going to offer it again? So, I thought I’d ask? >>
I will put it on independent study for a while and maybe let Clean Run offer it as an independent study too. Probably won’t run a working version of it til spring.
>>And do you know what your plans are for other classes you’re going to be offering this winter?
Sorta LOL! The puppy class progressions are easy to plan, so I am working on planning other stuff – mainly revamping the Agility U concept a bit because we have our 10th birthday coming up, so I want to change things up 🙂 Stay tuned!
>>Hope to get a couple of leash tugging and some remote reward sessions videoed for some feedback. I’m pretty pleased with how they are going but am sure I’m missing some stuff!!!>>
Awesome!! I am looking forward to seeing it!
T
Good morning!
This is a great focal point for him, the leash-as-toy will be very useful for a whole lot of things!The leash was a real toy here in the beginning, before and after the wing wrapping! He seemed to prefer the chase of it and the get it and was not as excited about the ‘bite’ procedure. But the moving toy was the most exciting to him and he definitely engaged!
(With that in mind – we never really know how much mental effort there is for the dog, so after that section of the session he might have been mentally depleted. The session didn’t seem to go for too long on the clock, but his giant tongue and looking away did seem like the leash-as-toy depleted him a bit. I know he often has a giant tongue during training 🙂 But I don’t think it was *that* hot out and he was not doing all that much running… so in this case, giant tongue might have been a brain depletion indicator. And if that happens – you can chalk this first part up as a giant win and don’t introduce anything new after that.)
Building to using the leash as a leash and a toy: He seemed fine with you putting the leash over his head, but not as interested when you were leaning over asking for a strike. You can try that by leaning back and moving back, to entice him to come forward towards you more (but strike was not his favorite when the leash was not on him so it makes sense that he would not be as jazzed up about it when he was wearing it).
He was more interested when you were moving it away moving it away but his tongue was giant at this point and he was looking away, so he might have just needed a break from the tugging. Shifting to tricks with the leash on was also a good way to get the leash more ino the picture and he was definitely not feeling depleted when you did that! Yay!So tugging is a bit of a limited bank account for him – so when adding the leash as the toy, do incredibly short bursts so you limit the withdrawals from the tug account 🙂 But it seems tricks-for-treats is a pretty massive trust fund, so you can totally do more of these. And it does help build value for the leash!
And you can also do a ‘leash on’ game where you pair it with the remote reinforcement marker: he does a wing wrap or something, you get the leash on, then mark it and run to get cookies: super useful for the end of AKC trials where the leash needs to go back on.
>>I was really happy how the leash played into the loop with the frizz so I’m assuming I need to modify that someway to incorporate the leash.>>
Totally agree! We can play around with what is best for him
>>Again he likes tug, he doesn’t love it >>
With this in mind, make up some value transfer loopy games:
Wing wrap (which he seems to like) or tunnel – chase the leash til he grabs at it (or tugs on it) – friz through – return to you for cookie – wing wrap/tunnel – and so on. It can mirror the demo video I did with CB and the tennis ball, where it was a trained behavior that was stimulating AND associated with fast reinforcement – then the “new” reward (in your case, swooshing the leash around) – then a quick transition to the BIG reward (da friz!)The leash doesn’t need to be on his at any time soon, but you can start it like that and eventually it can be on him and dragging (but safely so that there are no obstacles or anything, just short silly games that install wearing the leash.
>>I see a definitive shift in him once the leash goes on>>
Probably a conditioned response – he has been wearing a leash of some sort since he was what, 8 weeks old? And Pavlov is one powerful mothereffer. So, it will take a short while to change the conditioned response which is why we install it into these procedures/games that already have a strong existing positive conditioned response, both in terms of “feelings” and also in terms of what you do (after the wing wrap, you chase the reward, it is what we do :))
>> also learned that I should never film in these pants because hello very visible cellulite 😳. I’m going to go starve myself now.
What? I liked those pants and saw no cellulite! I also liked the color combo! You look fabulous 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! This was a fun session to watch:
He started off just kind pf retrieving the leash for treats, but as soon as you you got the leash moving with the ‘shhhhhh’ – he really lit up! Great tugging! Having the leash on his neck and being closer to cookies was harder for him, so feel free to progress slowly with that – the leash can spend a lot of time as “just” a toy, and limited time as an actual leash 🙂
Also, with an eye towards raising value even more: instead of the the ‘give’ cue, you can use your remote reinforcement marker to get the leash back then run to the cookies placed further away and reward. That can really help build up the leash as a pretty irresistible toy and as part of the beginning & end of run routines 🙂>>PS Had a rousing game of Hide & Seek yesterday with Nuptse, ping pongng the reinforcement! It was very fun!!!>>
That sounds fun! And a great way to spend a cold day 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
