Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Yes, that would totally work to deliver the cookie for a job well done before moving on to the next part of the course and the next distraction 🙂 Catch him in the act of making great choices and reward the moment 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>At home, I tried the tire and he happily does it so it’s another obstacle where he’s different in training. He does the one at run thru better than class. Mine does not have the same frame that is easy to run under.
It is probably the difference in the frame, so the low tire (so he can’t go under) and the wings next to it (so he can’t go through the frame but not take the tire) can help him.
>>In this week’s class I brought a person that distracts him as Kryptonite. So the other dog came too. Fortunately the weather was much cooler as he did lots of running. He was fine with the other dog but kept running back to the person. I explained she might need to increase distance but it was hard to get enough distance for him. Even with her in the car, he went searching for her.>>
Interesting! Super high level of Kryptonite!!
>>I did have a chance to do pattern on arrival but he was fine in parking lot. But she said could not hear his screaming when she headed off first without him. Before the 1st run, he was able to relax on bed and do few actions while she was present.>>
Good! It is a good start!
On the first videos, here some general impressions then training ideas below:
>>I couldn’t get him to do much tricks to start his 1st run with the person present at a distance
Wow, this is IMPRESSIVE kryptonite LOL!!! He must LOVE the person very much!
>>When I disconnected, he would head off.>>
He started off well at the start line in terms of engagement, but then as you mentioned: there was a little disconnect at the beginning then he took off – he was so distracted by the Kryptonite that he simply couldn’t ‘see’ the jumps (or teeter) unless you were quite perfect.
When he was further away, more on the side of the field with the a-frame, he was pretty strong with his agility, much closer to normal Sprite, and he did lots of good work!! The good news is tha he was able to recall each time he scooted away and then he was able to do the teeter to the jump to the tunnel (turning away from the Kryptonite!!!) at the end.2nd run:
>>I was too distracted with putting Kryptonite in car and all his running around to search for her that I forgot to start recording. I could not get him to do any tricks. When I got to start line and removed his leash, he went sprinting off and ran to the back door of the inside building. He eventually ran over to the gate on other side and stared into the car. She said he was looking at her but the windshield is tinted so not sure if he could see.>>
He might not have been able to see her, but he could smell her 🙂 It made your class a little more challenging but the great news is that you have a Kryptonite who is willing to help you train!
>>I totally don’t remember the 2nd run but it was tough like the 1st one but little better since he mainly ran off at the start. Think in that run I went to far past a jump as I forgot the next jump was serpentine. My instructor said I should keep my arm extended so I just smiled as I remembered to intentionally pump my arms instead so he was following well. My friend said she noticed I kept my arms low.>>
Yay! It is not easy to handle when the dog is not fully focused, so your hand might have been lovely – and his distraction is a reflection of the training and not so much the handling. The Krpytonite made things hard but we can plan to help him out. It sounds like if he can handle having his Kryptonite friend there, then ANY distraction is going to be super easy.
3rd run video:
I loved your energy moving him to the line! He was staying with you but it was SO HARD for him to see the obstacles in the Kryptonite distraction haze. Good job staying in motion – he got in gear in the back of the ring.
In future kryptoniting 🙂 you can start him in the back of the ring to get focus more quickly.I like that he was sass barking at you at 1:43 when you disconnected, rather than taking off – that probably means he was overcoming the distraction challenge! And he didn’t run off when you brought him back through the tire. YAY!
>>My instructor said that was interesting training and I needed higher value rewards.That is something I was going to ask you about. When presenting the big distractions, I take a ‘fight fire with fire’ approach. For my dogs: No distractions? Normal cookies like kibble or string cheese and regular toys. Medium distractions? Slightly better cookies like cheddar cheese or meat-based dog treats and fun fluffy tug toys. High distractions? Insanely stinky treats like meatballs, pizza crust, Egg McMuffins, hot dogs, and the highest value toys like tennis balls or frisbees. So in the face of the Kryptonite friend, you can try adding a new high level of reinforcement instead of the regular level.
>> I’m not sure how to make that easier because he does not react at home. He does not react with other people. He would not even take the reward at the start line. Just knowing she was present he went searching. I did not try with her in the ring.>>
You were smart to keep her as far as possible to get some success going! It was a good assessment of where he is, in terms of training with the highest level of distraction 🙂 The good news? You are highly unlikely to see that level of distraction at a trial 🙂 So we can use the Kryptonite for training!
The first thing to do is find out what you can use as reinforcement in her presence. Ideally, it would be some type of food (crazy high value to start) and we can build that up, using her as the reward: if he will eat the cookie, he can then go visit his kryptonite friend 🙂 So we are basically rewarding eating 🙂 and getting him in the habit of eating treats in her presence. Start with very high value stuff! And she can be your ‘let’s go’ remote reinforcement reward station:
– Sprite does a trick, for example
– He eats the cookie
– Then he gets the BIG reward, which is the visit with the friend 🙂Start with the Kryptonite friend visible but not close (so he doesn’t try to search for her), Sprite on leash, and crazy delicious food rewards.
My guess is he will catch on VERY quickly because he is brilliant, he likes food a lot, and he knows a ton of tricks and games. So if you can enlist the help of your Kryptonite friend again (not in classes, just in a quiet training setting), you can start with figuring out what food is high value reinforcement, then teaching him that he needs to eat it and then he can visit.
Then add in the games one-by-one: pattern game with her nearby, tricks, line up, off leash offered engagement, etc – with the cookie being eaten in order for him to go visit and then extending the amount of time and # of cookies before he is sent to visit his friend 🙂>>Class 5-16
Run Thru Sat 5-21 which I likely will skip due to work and Sun trial
USDAA Trial 5-22 Standard and Gamblers
NADAC Trial 5-29 – my mother attends but he’s less distracted by her and she hides>>All good! If you can figure out the reinforcement in the presence of the Kryptonite and play some of the games successfully before the next class, you can try more Kryptonite at class. If you don’t have time this week to do it, no problem, you can keep class more ‘normal’ because the Kryptonite friend was so distracting.
Bummer about work on 5-21, it would be great to do the run through! The trial schedule has a lot of god opportunity coming up, especially for training runs!!!!Keep me posted and let me know what you think about the Kryptonite games ideas 🙂
TracyUgh, sorry about the crashing issue! We have found that to be an issue with longer threads with lots of videos, on certain devices: ipad, iphone, Mac, depending on which update it is. Apple software doesn’t always play nicely with others, but it always catches up. So let me know which device you were getting the crashes on and which platform it was running. I have not seen it happen on a PC or Android device but we are keeping track. My iPad also crashes YouTube uploads when there has been an update, so my guess is that it has something to do with YouTube and iOs not liking each other very much LOL!. Let me know the details and I will send it over to the tech guy 🙂
I will reply to your post in your Part 2 thread 🙂
Hi again!
I love your start cards, such gorgeous photos!The accordion looks great here – I think in coming weeks, the compression portion at 4.5 feet can go to 6 feet. You can also play with the set point at 5 feet, 5.5 feet, and 6 feet. That will help develop his striding on the longer distances too! But no rush…. Once a week of jumping is really all he needs for now. He is still growing a lot and developing a lot, so we don’t want to get locked into anything yet because it will change as he physically matures.
On the starfish:
He is doing really well finding his lines on the wings, especially on the line from the tunnel to the wing for the race tracks! Yay!
Use your tunnel exit verbals sooner, such as the left/ right/go at least 3 feet or more before his head goes in. And for the in in on the wing after the tunnel, a name call before he enters the tunnel will get him coming out looking for you, (rather than going straight) at which point you can do the in in for the wing.For the 2nd in in like at :47 and 1:08 and 1:54- he knew something was up but needs the arm cue to turn him away (Like at :51 and 1:19) on the flat – all of the motion was straight and the verbal doesn’t override. that yet. You got it really nicely at 1:35 and 2:05 and 2:40 with the motion and arm cues.
Also, you will have more time to do all the arms and words and motions if you either leave the toy in one hand or put it in your pocket – you were switching it to the other hand before giving the cue, which delays the info for a speedster like Ronan 🙂
You can also send him to the outside of that wing rather than threadle it, and add in a tunnel threadle after it – it will be super challenging too!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHA! I look forward to seeing him run on the big stage someday and cheering for RONY PONY!!!!!!
>>Curious how you think the adult was similar to Ronan. He is handsome too?
Definitely handsome! The adult BC is a young male who is similar in size, build, speed and focus. The difference was that he was physically mature when we started it but also he had a history of hitting bars on difficult slices, especially backside slices. This grid made a big difference in teaching him how to handle those lines. I have seen a lot of aids and cones and gates to try to teach the backside slice jumping but those only seem to work when they are in place at the jump and are incredibly difficult to fade. What has really helped is this grid and also conditioning 🙂
T
Good morning!
She is doing well with this game and I agree – that send skill will be useful on course!She had a harder time when you were on the takeoff side of jump 1 – it is a harder send for sure because she has to send past you. 3 ideas for you:
You can bring the wing and jump closer, so you are not quite as far away.
And, since her stay looks really good, you can step forward with your arm and leg and *then* say your release word.
I think she is hearing the release first and making the decision to come to you before the she sees the movement of the send arm & leg.You can also help her by giving her a focal point on the landing side of the jump, like tucking a bowl into the landing side wing, which will help her drive to the jump better (then you can toss the reward into the ball).
She was terrific when you were on the landing side of jump 1 ! No problem! So you can keep playing the handling games on that side too! She looked fabulous on those 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Ahh, that makes sense. So it will likely be a bit of time before I figure that out for her.>>
Yes, and it will probably shift back and forth early in her career. For now, I like to name and support as much as possible with verbals.
Didn’t see rear crosses mentioned in the description for this one but will do. >>When you are ready, it is here:
On the video:
>>Only ended up doing seq 1 (turn) and 2 (straight) in each direction as the turns were harder to get.>>
I think what was happening on the first reps to the left and after 1:32 to the right when she was going straight was that the handling, even when you were walking, did not support the verbal, so she went with the motion.
Starting her on the angle on the first wing makes it harder to also show handling to get the turns on the tunnel exit -the last thing she was was you accelerating forward – for now, since this is not a proofing game, verbals and handling should match. She was seeing you turn but it was really late, after the tunnel or even after she was a few strides out of it like at :47.When you accelerated she did the go but when you were behind or decelerated, she came out straight and asked questions, so it is important to match the handling with the verbals, so you can run for both cues rather than run on one and walk on the other (we don’t want her to think that all accelerations are GO, because they are not :))
So send her around to the outside of the start wing for a post turn to the tunnel, which sets an easier line of entry to the tunnel – and also gives you more time to handle. At the same timing as you gave the left or right verbals (she was 2 meters in front of the tunnel on both), you should also be turning your body and heading towards the wing you want, letting her see the physical cue to match & support the verbal. And then on the go reps, you can show her straight line handling rather than the turn away. I think that will make a world of difference on her exits!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>So, if I only move the 3rd jump one foot is the goal for her to always bounce that?
Yes and no – on the easier distances, yes, to get her organizing the bounce more by slicing the behavior more thinly. At some point she will need to put in a stride, but the smaller slices of behavior will allow her to put in a smaller balanced stride that we then extend. We don’t want the big strides til we have the balance.
>> I agree that she’s not getting her rear underneath her before taking off which leads to a lot of split back feet taking off.>>
Yes, but that is normal and part of the maturity process. As she physically matures, her strength will balance out and she will ‘use’ her body in a more balanced way. She is working on it already 🙂 All of my young dogs are pretty physically immature at Sprite’s age and then 6 months to a year later, there is a world of difference.
>>So, you are suggesting grids 3 days a week but to use set point once, then bounce grid and then accordion grid? Or, should I just do set point and accordion until she gets her rear under her more? Do you want the jump bump back for the set point or stay with 8 in bars?>>
Low bar grids are OK 3 times a week in short sessions at her age, but you don’t have to (there are a lot of other things to do in sport and life :)). So if you only get once a week to do a grid, choose the set point for now. Twice a week? A set point and a balance grid. And if the time gods and weather gods all align and you have the time and weather to do 3 times a week? You can rotate in the accordion grid. But, no pressure to do all three – the next month can be all about the set point and balance grids.
>>Backing onto the wobble board is back into 4 on?>>
Yes – back feet for sure, and all 4 would be great. I can also dig up the list of core and hind end strength games I did with Hot Sauce in 2020 and 2021 as we were pre-rehabbing and re-habbing her patella surgery!
Tracy
Hi! I love that you got so many people to help be ring crew!
This was hard for him!!!! You can see him struggling with the distraction – either by visiting or checking out. The sniffing by the fence when he couldn’t go into the tunnel (at the beginning) was probably a reflection of how hard it was.
With that in mind…reward him a whole lot more in that situation where you have a ton of distractions around. For example, on the 2nd rep: when he was able to do the opening and get to the a-frame, past the camera person who was so distracting earlier – that is a great time to reward him. It was hard and he nailed! When you sat him then asked him to go past more distractions, he couldn’t do it and checked out. People are his Krpytonite 🙂 So breaking it down into sections and rewarding each time he chooses to go past the distracting person will really help build up his focus, then you can stretch it out into longer and longer courses 🙂>>I would like to figure out how i can get him back when he “zones out” sniffing that is really hard to compete with….
The sniffing mainly happened after he did something really difficult like ignoring the Kryptonite person then didn’t get rewarded. So the way to get him back is to reward him a lot more for now, so he doesn’t leave. The leaving to sniff was a sign of stress because the challenge was so hard and the rate of reinforcement was too low. Lots and lots of rewards will fix that, then we can stretch it out.
>>the hardest part for me was he won’t let go without a cookie so something to work on for if he decides to tug at a trial.
You can bring 2 toys in the ring – I often have a tug and a ball – so I can lure the out by showing the ball, for example, to speed up transitions in the NFC runs.
>>The second part with no people was after a long sleep my older dog Lily is back doing Master/Exc JWW when she feels like it so i had her run some weaves in between.>>
He has a ton of great agility skills, as we see in this run at the end… no distractions, perfect course work! Yay! So the rewards can come for ignoring distractions on course, rather than running full courses. I think that will make a huge difference for him.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is a hard grid! She is really working it!
Just some general striding notes, followed by ideas for next steps:
Rep 1: 6 foot distances: She did 2 bounces but not comfy, she was having a little trouble controlling her hind endRep 2: 6 and 9 feet: The firs bounce was a really good bounce! The 9 foot distance was HARD for her – it was somewhere between a bounce and a one stride, kind of a double tap as she was trying to sort out her footwork.
Rep 3 – 6 feet then 12 feet: First bounce was good, not as good as previous rep but still good. The 1 stride was forward on her shoulders, so her butt ended up higher than her shoulders.
rep 4: 6 and 9 feet – good bounce to start and then she did a long bounce – different than what she did on rep 2, trying to sort it out.
rep 5 6 and 6 – good bounce in the first distance, then she had too much weight shift forward so her butt was higher than her shoulders.
So – she is shifting forward a lot and not sitting back into her hind end. This is very normal with young dogs who are discovering the joy of the “Go Fasts!” LOL!!! It is good to see her wanting to go fast so we can now encourage her to stabilize her core and sit into her rear.
My suggestion for that is to prioritize the set point and the ladder grid, along with core exercises and backing up onto unstable surfaces like a wobble board (which is both a hind end awareness gam and a core stabilizer). You can rotate the set point into training once a week, and the other stuff can be 2 or 3 times a week (separate days). The ladder grid can be visited once a week (3 jumps, bounce distance apart). And once a week, the accordion grid. And for the accordion grid, we can keep the 6 foot bounce distance to start and gradually get her reading it by going to 7 feet, then 8 feet then 9 feet for the distance to jump 3 (rather than move it away in 3 foot intervals).
>>. I’d like her to lengthen her stride while in extension, but not sure how to get that just yet.
That will happen when the 3rd jump in the accordion goes to 15 feet, 18feet, 21 feet. That will help her extend the one-stride and decide when to add 2-strides. But she is young so no need for that til she sits into her rear a bit more – as soon as she looks more balanced at 9 and 12 feet, we can move jump 3 out again.
The only other detail is to have the toy target further away when it is stationary, so she can land and take a full extension stride or two before getting to the toy (helps her organize her hind end). We can also look at the dragging toy, as the moving focal point might help her organize better than the stationary focal point.
Great job! Let me know what you think! Have fun with the starfish!
Tracy
Hi!
I think he is doing really well here – the first 6 passes all looked good (you were a little too close to the last jump from what I could see especially on #6, so you can be about 10 feet from the last jump).
Bearing in mind how challenging it is – he made it look pretty easy on the more obvious line, but then you saw how hard it was when you tightened it. The tighter line plus the fatigue from being a bunch of reps into the session caused him to add strides – we prefer he ‘bounce’ like he did when it was a little more open, so for now keep it open. Then, over time, you and inch it straighter – probably takes a few weeks, but no rush because he is so young. Last summer in the CAMP class, we had an adult BC who is similar to Ronan do the entire progression from 3 open jumps to 5 jumps at full height and tight line – it took the adult dog about 10 weeks to get it. So since Rony Pony is still young, I figure it will take you 6 months or so to get it straight and the bars taller. But that side-to-side bounce he is doing here is FABULOUS and so much more coordinated than most dogs his age 🙂 YAY!!! So keeping it open for now is right on track and actually ahead of schedule.Great job!
TracyHi!
Yes, there is a lot of running on this one, it starts to feel like a course even though it is only a tunnel and some wings 🙂
>> My homework is just getting more speed. She shows some. She loves the turn and burn.
In typical Tali fashion, she picked up speed as she got more comfortable with the setup. That is fine, because I rather that the dog thinks about something new and THEN goes fast, rather than flings herself into things and thinks later on LOL! Keep throwing the rewards and staying connected, and you will continue to see more and more speed! I liked what she was doing here!
>>. I tried to get her excited and instead of my normal dog food, I got cheese puffs out.
Ah yes! Because she is working for food which can be calming to dogs, don’t use only dog food to train 🙂 Use crazy high value stinky delicious stuff (mixed in with the dog food to pick up the good smells) so she is insane for it 🙂
>> But I need to get her less clingy and driving to the jumps. I had to really push out to the wings. I left one blooper. They were like that that. I feel I’m looking at her. She did good and did the exercises but I definitely need more confidence. The race tracks, she doesn’t like>>
There were lots of really great moments and I definitely see a few things that will help:
She really does well with the tandem turns!!! On the 1st 2 reps you did as a lap turn where you hustled to face her, and they went well! You can also do those as tandem turns, so you don’t have to rotate towards her and can keep moving forward. :26 was a tandem turn – I think she needs a different hand cue because you were using a ‘go’ arm and she didn’t turn til after you cut in behind her. I like using 2 hands for tandem turns, so the dogs can see it coming (the hands turns them away) before we cut in behind them.Lap turns through the race track like at 1:46 look good, she really likes those!!!
I think the tandem or lap turn will be good moves for the starfish here for speed – You did a BC on the tunnel exit there at :59 and1:17 but she had to wait for you and slowed down. To keep her speed going, you can send her to the tunnel entry from further away to get the blind so sh ecan keep moving, or do a tandem to keep hr moving 🙂
About those left turns and her being a bit sticky:
she definitely goes faster and is more independent when you have your arms down and you run run run, rather than point. You can see it on the ‘race track’ left and right turns when your arms are down and you are running (like at :56, 1:11 and 2:15 ) versus when your arm is up and pointing forward like at 1:03 (she ended up thinking you wanted a blind).Also, she is a righty 🙂 So on those left turns, keep your hands down and back, to let her see big connection. At 2:25 and 2:48, connection was not as clear so she was trying to default to the easier side (right turns).
You don’t need to push too much with motion, like at 2:06 where you pushed into her and pushed her off the wing. I think keeping connection and running near her will help a lot, and reward her a ton for left turns to help make them really valuable because they are harder. The connection might feel more ‘sticky’ and harder to convince her of right now, but that is young-dog-stuff that will go away as she gets more experienced.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Oh lord this flowsheet is causing way more inner turmoil than I expected. Part of the reason I’ve been so hesitant to do anything outside of the yard is because Carrie’s yard is so hard for us and forever I’ve felt like if I can’t get it there, I shouldn’t ask for it anywhere else. While rationally I understand that the pool is our biggest challenge, it makes me very insecure in moving forward.>>
Or, to look at it differently, Carrie’s yard has the biggest possible distraction and the biggest history of struggle with that. In fact, other locaitons might be FAR easier.
>>You pointed out missing jumps and the run around the table. Missing jumps consistently happens in practice also. I’m hoping we can work this in camp some… but we also don’t have opportunities to run full courses unless its a trial or seminar. Plus Carrie will be out this summer if Roulez gets pregnant so I’ll be course building alone.>>
One thing to consider is entering some USDAA or UKI at home trials, maybe the 60×40 ring for jumpers etc – even if you don’t record the runs, you will get courses to work and teach him to find lines, which canthen be built up to remote reinforcemen too. CB and Elektra got a lot better at finding lines when I starting doing the At Home trials. I don’t always record the runs, but I do train on them when I can.
>> Very rarely do I practice the table. His teeter really hasn’t been worked either because I’ve been working this stuff.>>
The stages of FEO can also be individualized for obstacles – so if an obstacle hasn’t been worked on, don’t ask for it at trials. Otherwise there will be errors and rehearsals in the trial ring that can be harder to overcome.
>>Now I just feel really conflicted and don’t know where to begin. I felt like his ring time looked the same if not better than Carrie’s yard but also better than most places we’ve been, but I also don’t want to miss any steps for him.>>
I think the top priority is then to get him to find the lines in training on simple wide open courses – like setting up an Open JWW course, no fancy backsides or threadles. Then when he can do that (finding lines of jumps and tunnels), that skill can go back into trials and both of you will be in a better mental state to run those courses.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>OK, I haven’t been doing this so will start this routine at my next trial which is the first weekend of June.Perfect! It should help him be more prepared for the environment at trials.
>>Oh, my I forgot all about that lead out. I will for sure do it next time.
I think he will like it – just do a short lead out so he doesn’t break the stay.
>>Ok, I was so excited that he was doing the course I forgot to reward him. I will try very hard to reward more when he is doing good.
That is the hardest thing, right? Rewarding when things ar egoing well is so hard but so important!
>> (no classes here)
Do you have a training group, or friends who can help add trial-like distractions?
>>So, for the trial first weekend in June, I should pull him from all runs that aren’t FEO. (FAST and T2B) (need to pull regular runs)>
I would definitely consider this, especially for the first runs of the weekend.
>>Then there is a local trial that I could enter him in FEO only the second weekend in June. (Not entered yet)>>
>>The third weekend is a local NADAC where he can run everything FEO. (I’m Trial Sec)>>
>>The fourth weekend UKI at Blue Springs all classes FEO (not entered yet)>>This is all perfect! And in the NADAC and UKI runs, you might be moving into the ‘real’ runs, which is great for venues like NADAC and UKI where there are lots of runs available each day 🙂
>>Did I miss commenting on anything else to work on? Thanks for all your feedback. Do you offer private feedback after the June 1 deadline that I could buy?>>
I think the Find My Face game will help him know where to look on course even if there is a disconnection. And the cartoon leadouts should be a fun game to add as well 🙂 In June, we start the CAMP class so that can be a place to keep building skills and getting feedback! Keep me posted!
Tracy
