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Hi!
>> I need structure to follow the steps, so I need something. Do you have any other suggestions for stopped dog walks?
I thought Clean Run had a good one going, with Tammy Moody? I will check and see what is out there.
>> I think I may be having a teeter teach it made, but I wouldn’t get it till the end of the month.
I love my Teach It!
>>My friend asked me if I had a target date to start Tali and I don’t, but I’m going to really try and get her trained on everything this summer at least. While I’ve got my outdoor space.>>
Perfect! She will let you know when she is ready 🙂
Tracy
I am looking forward to meeting her!
I do have these games embedded in a couple of other AU classes, but here are some links:
The pattern game might be similar to what you are doing for LLW but there are a lot of variations. I use to mainly to help the dogs chill out 🙂
T
Good morning!
Whoa, that sunset photo (or is it sunrise?) is amazing 🙂
>>Do you think that Ronan is getting the concept of the game? It seems he is changing his leads pretty quickly.
Yes, he is totally getting it and looks great for both of you! And he did well when you shortened the distance, he did well when you straightened out the bars and most importantly – the reps with the friz looked great! He did not lose his head or coordination and I am very happy with that!
>>Near the end of my video clips there are a few where I tried to rotate once I knew he was committed to the previous wing. This is hard!>>
Yes, it is hard but we are now going to make it easier for you (but harder for him LOL!)
Move the grid closer now so that bar 1 touches wing 2, and bar 2 touches wing 3, and bar 3 touches wing 4 (you no longer need bar 4).
Angle them so he can almost see a straight line through them, and set him up so he can see a pretty straight line through (it combines the zig zags here with the angles jump grid he has already seen). You will lead out to the end and basically call him through with very minimal handling: you can move your arms a bit but not loot or leg movement at all. Make the straight line visual as easy as possible til he really doesn’t need handling. Then we can make it harder. To give you an idea of where it is going, here is the grid in the final form. You can’t really see me in the early reps (I am standing still, doing nothing much :)) and later in the video, I am moving along the line and it is So.Much.Harder 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thanks for the sound, sometimes it is my terrible country internet that messes it all up 🙂 The freeway noises don’t seem to both the dogs at all, they are probably all used to it.
<<>> Me too. I’m enjoying my new freedom. 😃
For real! Being free to concentrate on handling makes it easier to be clear with the handling, which helps him stay focused, so you can keep concentrating on the handling. It is a fabulous cycle 🙂
>> I still couldn’t tell whether calm or cartoon works better. I know if he’s distracted I have to be more animated to get his attention.>>
My guess is that in a trial a bit of cartoon lead out might do the trick? The only way to know is to try it 🙂
>> in class, you can try putting big jump wings between the frame and the tire
Good idea and there are some extra wings. They tried cones and he still ran under.>>He is a slippery little thing, fitting between the cones and the tire LOL!! I would put 2 wings on it, so he can’t fit through the sides and it looks like a jump, and lower it just enough that it is really hard (but not impossible) to limbo under it.
>> Someone mentioned their instructor had them run with hands in pockets so that might work.
I have done that to my poor students hahah – hands in back pockets to keep the shoulders open (not front pockets). Or, with a bottle of water in their hand (or ice cream, that is the MOST fun haha)
>>I signed up for gamblers and standard. He’s been to this location once before in Feb 2020 and ran out of the ring twice. Plus it’s double ring. His monthly run thru is on Sat 5/21 so not sure that will work out.>>
2020 was a long time ago (feels like 10 years, not 2 years) so no worries that he ran out of the ring. A double ring trial is more distracting but USDAA is quite small nowadays.
>>From what I can tell, they amended the rules in 2020 and allow FEO outside of Intro now. You’re not allowed to use toy in distracting manner to other ring. Previously it mentioned not throwing. So this might be one for clam on leash.>>
Yes – you can run every single class FEO now (I did it in February with all 3 of my baby dogs at a USDAA trial). Ask the judge about not throwing – I threw the toy in the USDAA I went to, but it was one ring.
>>Do you know if USDAA allows FEO at regional events in the regular classes? There’s one place that has AC 😀 but it’s mainly used for regionals.>>
Perry is niiiiiiiice I have run there a few times! The judge listed here is Courtney Keys who is one of the nicest people ever on the planet and she also understands how it is important to build engagement through reinforcement (she is also a fabulous dog trainer!) I *believe* that it is fine to run FEO in the regular classes but I will find out for sure.
Tracy
Good morning! I hope you are having a great trip!!!! Nice big distracting area here for training!!! She did really well – there is a LOT of potential distraction in the environment. And hooray for her Instant Focus success!! Overall, I think her focus and engagement are looking good here 🙂
Good job setting up the session props before she came into the picture, so you didn’t have to finagle around and could only focus on her.>>But man I love how she looks up at me as soon as I set her down.
Totally agree! The power of Pavlov! It is a thing of beauty, she barely has to think about it. And you are being really good about being stationary, no cookie hands moving, not asking for engagement – just letting her offer. She is doing well with the moving pops also. And also I am loving her speed on the releases with the pressure of the reward station.
>>I realized I should have done some tricks to warm her up, so after a break I started with that, and added a jump like object to the picture. This was a little harder! Especially going towards the RR station.>>
Yes, you can ‘volume dial’ her up as well, it can help and it is great to practice in a zillion different environments. And also I see how it was harder to get her to NOT look at the reward station, like at 1:48 which was harder silly walk moment, looking at the reward station and having trouble looking at you (but releasing successfully past it). With the reward station: try not to release her directly towards it. Always release her going away from it or past it (for now) because we don’t want to accidentally muddy the waters that running towards it will get the reinforcement going (it will not :))
Going away from the reward station seems pretty easy. Going past it was more of a head exploder, which makes sense because it is hard for her to go past ring crew distraction too, for example. So it is a good one to practice (going past it) but with more distance away from it, so it is easier for now.
And since you mentioned Silly Walks, I immediately thought of this:
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I would definitely love to see the video from flyball if you are able to get it. We have worked a couple different versions of flyball don’t chase the thing exercises but I think a lot is it just isn’t enough reps yet.
I will get video! And I also did a ton of pattern games outside the lane with CB, in classes, practices, tournaments. A zillion pattern games LOL! That really helped.
>> good when the dog isn’t running very spotty when dog is running but it has been a few weeks.>>
Spotty, as in delayed response/high latency? Or spotty as in zero response? Two things can help: more distance away from the moving dogs. And higher value reinforcement. I had to bring out 2 frisbees (frisbees are LIFE!) to get the pattern games going with CB when dogs were running. And then went to the highest value food (steak and meatballs :))
>>Wag should be a nice setup to do where she can see the ring but far enough I shouldn’t get complaints>>
I will refrain from comments about complaints LOL!!! And hopefully UKI will prove to be more training-friendly.
>>Taping on the other hand will be a massive challenge there.>>
Totally understandable! Take notes after each run, if possible 🙂
>>I feel like next step difficulty is Pip tethered, behind a gait, or held by someone. I don’t have to worry about him practicing bad behaviors (he will but at 13.75 who cares) and he should be less distracting than a novel dog.
Yes! Did you get a chance to look at the Kryptonite games? I had my older dogs on one side of the fence and the ‘working’ dog with me… som really good training without head explosions. You can use gates or xpens if you don’t have enough room to be on the other side of a fence.
>>I haven’t added difficulty this week with 2 more challenging days over the weekend it was a good week to make sure the foundation behaviors were solid with lots of successes.
Totally agree – we want to proceed very slowly and make it super successful for both of you!
On the video – I think she did really well here!!! The pattern games are easy for her now, so any changes in response or latency ar egood barometers for how she is feeling about the environment! And she was offering engagement beautifully without you needing to do a choreographed song and dance number to get her looking at you 🙂
She had one little scent distraction at 1:14ish, investigated something on the other side of the dog walk but returned to engagement within a couple of seconds. If we had turned up her arousal (volume dial stuf) then I doubt she would have investigated the smells.
>> I would vote next step is person jogging or person walking Pip (or him gaited in a small area).>>
Yes – handlers jogging during the walk through, someone warming up their dog, or someone walking Pip and being silly with him 🙂
>>I will have to bring a bribe for my students.
I have found that humans are food motivated 🙂 and they also like to watch their instructors train, especially when things go a little off the rails LOL!
>>Peach wine or chocolate mint wine on Monday – asking for a friend who has Monday night off :).>>
Chocolate mint wine is ALWAYS the winner for me, that stuff is dangerously yummy 🙂
Keep me posted on the weekend! Have fun!
TracyHi!
I think this spacing looks good! And her position on the 1st jump seemed fine (hard to tell exactly from the camera angle) – I think she knocked it on the first rep because you released AND ran with the dragging toy all at the same time, so she was surprised. You can stay in motion, walking, and dragging the toy – and then release.
She also did better when you were facing forward (reps 3, 4, 5) then when you were facing her (rep 2),so keep facing forward as you release and drag.She definitely seemed to like the dragging 🙂 I like what she is doing with her striding especially on reps 3, 4 and 5! How far away was the 3rd jump on rep 3? I think you can add more distance now – same distance between 1 and 2, but now jump 3 can start 3 feet further away for each rep.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> Question-watching some of the accordion video and you talked about getting the 3rd jump out to 15′. Can you give the steps that I should be doing, how far to move it completely out, for me to work in our month off and the set point I would just be raising? Tali is almost 17 months.>>Eventually, jump 3 can be all the way out at 24 feet, using the similar progression as you did here: the first 2 jumps always stay the same. The 3rd jump can start at 8 or 9 feet away, and in the same session go to 12 then 15 then 12 then back to the first distance.
If you like the striding at 12 and 15 feet for a couple of sessions, you can keep the first distance the same, then go to 12-15-18-15-12. At 15 and 18, the bar can start to go up.
And so on 🙂But before she sees a taller bar in the accordion, let her see it in the set point. At 17 months, you can raise the bar about 2 inches per week, and see how it goes!
Tracy
Good morning!
>> It’s finally decent here. I got out tonight and worked on the backside proofing on the left side. I had the wings at an angle and put the bar down with one wing. She did great and I guess I did not hit record, so no video.>>
Yay for good weather! Of course, the best sessions are always on when the video is not on. Same goes for the ‘at home’ trials – the best runs are when the video is not running. LOL!
>>First 2 reps were easy, so I adjusted the jump, then 4 reps there
I would leave it at the adjusted spot for several more sessions – she did well on those but still had to think. You can see it was not an immediate decision to take the jump (after coming around the wing) so the jump can stay at that slight angle for a while. You were able to run here and that is great! Keep your shoulders open to face the serp jump. The only thing I would add is a verbal – you were quiet after the wrap start, so you can add her name a few times for each rep, or a directional (for a serp like this, I use my left/right because it is a left/right behavior from the dog). A verbal can help get her attention while you run.
And if you see serps in classes – open the angle up so she is successful in that context too, rather than rehearsing a run by on the first approach.>>and I adjusted it again to pretty close to straight. That’s when she started to run by on some of the reps.
Yes, it was too hard and you were adjusting the handling to get it (running less and decelerating to get her to come in, and trying to get her focused on your hands, etc) Since serps are specific handling moves, you want to maintain the proper handling at all times rather than modify it – we think we are helping, but the dogs tend to think “AHA! Wait til she decelerates and then come take the jump” LOL! So – steady motion is key. And since she was able to do it with you going pretty fast with the angle, I would stick to the angle for a while (it was a hard enough angle indeed) and then inch it back to straight. And find the sweet spot – if it is too hard and she runs by even once, give her an inch to see it better rather than change up the handling.
You can also work the placement of reinforcement so that the toy lands a bit behind you, at the landing spot of the bar or even a little closer to the entry wing, to help emphasize the need to look for the bar.
>>At the end, she was starting to get it.
Yes and no – she was coming in, but you were helping and she had not sorted out her striding (look at her feet on that last rep, there was a lot happening LOL!)
>>Not sure if it was just too much motion – I felt like I was looking at her and connecting over the bar, but motion is hard!! I think we have made some progress – letting it sit for a while was good.>>
Yes! Motion is the hardest part of serps so keeping the motion and leaving the jump position open a bit longer will help her be able to do it with all the motion. And try to get a little further ahead on the wing send so you don’t have to rush as much to the serp line – that will give you more time to get your arm back and shoulders open, which totally helps her 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyExcellent question!
At 11 months old, it is likely that her growth plates are closed or almost all closed. You can X-ray to verify, but there is no real need to do that if you are going to proceed really slowly.
Also at 11 months old – she is still developing the mature muscling (soft tissues) and physique and brain of an adult dog (there was just a REALLY cool webinar on adolescent dog brains from behavior vets!). So at 11 months old, you’ve got plenty of time to raise the bars.
I would proceed by keeping the 10 inch bars til she is about a year. Then go to 12 (12 months old is still very puppy like in terms of physical and mental maturity for larger breeds). Then at around 14 months, assuming all goes well, you can go to 14 inches and then 16 inches. Assuming all is good, at about 16 months, show her some 18 inches and when she is closer to 18 months, she can see *some* 20 inch jumping.18 months is still really physically immature (and mentally immature) so there is no need to do a lot of full height jumping.
At about the 18 month time frame, try to get her in to see a sports vet for an evaluation and assessment. I do this for all of my dogs for 2 reasons: one is to get any idea of where they might need extra attention in terms of conditioning (structural things I need to watch for) and the other reason is to get ‘clearance’ to proceed to full height jumping. They will assess muscling, conditioning, etc and let me know if the dog is ready (or if I need to wait, or if I need to do certain things in the meantime to strengthen certain areas).
Each new jump height is introduced first in the set point, then as the last jump of the accordion grid when it is 15-18 feet away, then on easy lines in sequences, then in isolation (one jump games) on harder turns and backsides. Then it slowly all comes together 🙂
So yes, she is likely going to arrive at full height jumping later than dogs her age. But by letting her mature and learn to jump with her adult body, you will get better jumping form, better coordination, better understanding of how to extend and collect – and it is ultimately safer for her body so she will have a nice long career 🙂
And in the meantime… turn off social media hahahaha because you will see all sorts of 1 year old dogs running at full height and 15 month old dogs competing. Every single sports and orthopedic veterinarian that I have talked to is totally against that. And from a training perspective, I do see a large amount those dogs struggling physically (injury-shortened careers) and definitely mental (frustration, stress, over-arousal because their adolescent brains were not given time to develop.). I generally start my dogs in the ring when they are 2, depending on their state of readiness.
Hope that helps! Let me know what you think!
TracyGreat! Keep bringing those behaviors into training, in all environments, as the gateway to everything else (no wing send til she is standing still with your hand touching her collar, for example). Start as far from stimulation as needed so she can be successful. I have spent quality time in the parking lot outside of the training building with some of my very stimulated dogs LOL!!!
The other avenues to pursue are some of the games where she learns to moderate herself, rather than you cuing it (collar holds and chin rests cue it). Have you seen the various pattern games or take a breath game?T
Hi!
That is a cool rule change for AKC! Definitely worth rehearsing the mechanics of it! And yes, in USDAA and UKI you still need to put the leash down at the start line… but also easy to rehearse! You can do it every single time you run in class by having someone pick up the leash. I have found that food bribery works for humans LOL!I rehearse the leash off element of trialing with all of my young dogs for multiple sessions before they started trialing, and then as part of FEO when they did start trialing. I know I could have spent that time on jumps/tunnels/weaves etc, but it was a far better use of time to help them understand ring procedures.
Tracy
Good morning!
>> >This is the problem with her stays! She is not staying engaged enough. She may not be engaged enough before we start!
Yes! It feels counterintuitive, right? There are many dogs like Promise (and my Matrix, who taught me this important lesson) who do better when they are “higher” – also known as more engaged 🙂 Most of the dog sport community thinks that these dogs need to be calmed, but that reduces engagement and makes things very hard for them. So by stimulating these dogs MORE, we get crisper, faster, more accurate behavior. It makes complete sense when thinking about the Yerkes-Dodson bell curve – arousal (too much or too little) is actually considered LOW according to the science, and that optimal state is considered HIGH! So, we ignore what other people say and we stimulate the dogs that need it, to get more engagement and more success.
>>I did a little test with a few sit stays this morning. She was 100 percent if I waited the extra second to wait for her head to look at me. If I left before I got that engagement she got up. She responded really well to some fast hand targets before we started! But I still had to have that ok mom, I’m ready before I could leave successfully.>>
Perfect! That offered engagement is a great barometer of where she is in terms of optimal state. And if a few seconds go by and she can’t look at you? Time for more tricks, stimulate her more (or a pattern game if she is really struggling with the environment).
>>I have two feos this weekend! Any suggestions???
Your last FEO left off with a nice stay and a sweet simple course. We can plan to start there with FEO run 1 – make the say a little shorter than last time, but get your engagement first. And pick a fast, fun mini course for her. I think it was in the “just like home” where she saw the toy, right?
If FEO 1 goes well, you can do FEO 2 as step 2 “empty hands” where you have the toy in a pocket and repeat what you did earlier… but with no visible toy until somewhere on the course (or to reward the stay, I do a LOT of that in step 2).
And of course, that can be a starting plan – if she struggles in any way with the environment or behaviors, make the plan easier or bail out of it altogether 🙂 Protecting her happy attitude in the trial area is the top priority 🙂
Please send weekend updates!!! I feel like I am waiting on competition results for my little niece hahahaha
Tracy
Hi –
>>Believe it or not that was me working on clean transitions. LMAO. So when it looks like I’m flinging her, it’s literally me holding on while she’s trying to pull away.So this goes to the top of the priority list, then! Split it all down and reinforce both with food and with the action. If she wants the action and it is reinforcing, then it is critical that we use it as a reinforcement.
Have you started training something like her putting her collar in your hand, or her putting her chin in your hand? Both important things to shape! And have you shaped her to just stand still? All easier said than done!
For the clean line ups, make all line ups and releases into work very clean by slowing down the process and the mechanics. Start by establishing it away from agility or training or anything, so she is less stimulated. For example, do it after she has eaten dinner and in your living room: Cookie to get her to your side, gentle finger on her collar, another cookie. Don’t put any opposition pull back into it and for now, don’t start the verbal. She might pull around or add her own opposition but do your best to get the cookies in fast for finger on the collar and when she stands still even for a heartbeat – let go and toss a cookie. If she starts to get squirrely, just stand still – we really don’t want to send her to a wing, for example, if she is flingy/barky/bitey. Train the ‘stand still, be calm’ separately and then bring it back in front of the wing – and the reward for doing it will be the cookie and also being sent to the wing.
>> I will make that my priority for sure but yes she is in a higher arousal state and it all gets messy fast!
Now is the time to de-mess it all, because she is very young and basically a blank slate 🙂 In order to get released to the wing, shape her to have 4 feet on the ground and your hand on her collar. That is the criteria that needs to be train (separately) then met in order to get the send to the wing, same as the eventual start line stay criteria in front of a jump.
>>I thought I was supposed to connect less?
It is like Goldilocks and the 3 Bears – we want it just right 🙂 When you were bending over and staring at her, it was too much. When you were closing your shoulder forward and looking ahead, it was too little. At 1:33, it was just right 🙂 There needs to be enough connection so she has info about which side to be on.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
