Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning! This looks great!
All of the ‘find the backside’ reps looked great, she is doing well about going to the backside and not the front side. You can add more of your motion to this now, as long as you keep the lovely connection and reinforcement!
She had a little more challenge with the countermotion. You can help support her commitment by shifting your connection to the landing spot as you release her from the stay (and as she comes around the entry wing, when you are putting it all together0. You would let her see you look from her eyes to the landing spot behind you, and you can also move your dog-side arm back to point at it as you move your eyes. That can help support that commitment when the rest of your body is moving forward past the exit wing đ
And when she is super comfy with that, you can add more motion there too – go from a slow walk to a fast walk, then from a fast walk to jogging. If she is very happy with all that over the course of several sessions, you can build up to a run.
Great job! let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>We have worked dog moving other side of gait in flyball. Good till dog runs (recall from stay not okay, walk/jog on leash fine) then brain falls out. >>
I am doing flatwork passing drills with my team tomorrow night to help the young dogs keep their heads on straight, I will get some video and send to you if you want. We have several young dogs that want to chase so this can help.
>>Did a little find my face to show Shelly at the barn for one of her dogs and Lanna did great but no video because watching and taping isnât a thing.>>
I have found that one of the Laws Of Agility is that the dogs do a lot better when the video is not turned on LOL!
All sorts of great work on these videos!!! I am excited!
Barn clip 1 – I know this might an “outside the box” suggestion but since she is great with her pattern games… are there any super stinky spots in the barn where you can do these cookie tosses in the dirt? The environment we need her to assess and ignore is the stinky smelly scents so we might as well take the game directly to the Kryptonite.
I like what she is doing here in terms of engagement and agility!!! She seemed to like the cartoon lead out. Lovely agility, better jumping form (might be an indicator that she is thinking about the environment less), resilience to handler error (at 1:18 and 1:45 – disconnection from you caused the wrong tunnel entry, she needed a direct eye contact to know to get onto your left side), great tugging, and most importantly: IGNORING THE SHELLY KRYPTONITE. And based on her reaction at the end, Lanna totally knew she was there.
I feel like you are not having to work quite as hard to get and keep her attention in the barn.
Barn 2 – she took the good girl almost as a visit cue but then fixed it really quickly at the beginning!
This session also went well! I liked the fast/fun food delivery, it was very engaging. Also, good job at 1:40 turning to the red jump and not to THE SHELLY.
At 1:12- 1:18, you can add in taking your hand off her collar and see if she can move with you – pattern game, or offered engagement but no collar hold or food on her nose. I think she is ready for that and is far less likely to get caught in distractions.
Another big sign of god things happening: At 1:58, she was resilient to the tunnel handling error (funky rear cross and the big yes pulled her out) – she stayed engaged and didn’t feel the need to leave, which is something that might have happened a couple of months ago. That handler oopsie moment can also be a find my face moment đ
Stash video 1 – she is just great at the pattern games now, I feel we can add a bit more Kryptonite to them here too đ Training on your own might just need adding in other distractions, but I am thinking more about using them around other dogs:
At the seminars and trials coming up, you can do a little more cookie tossing for the pattern games – maybe 2 feet off to the side, to allow her to assess the environment of the other dogs running, and offer engagement up to you. I think UKI will be smaller and people will be fine with you doing it on leash, and also it should be fine outside the ring at the seminar. The more we can help her ignore the other dogs moving, the easier everything becomes đ
Stash video 2 – nice job marking the offered engagement as you moved towards the jumps! I couldn’t see everything but it sounds like it went really well đ You can do this with reinforcement hidden on you, for seminars where you will want reinforcement in the ring (the beginning of your first turn is perfect for a bit of engagement and surprise reinforcement :)) and also for NFC runs!
Great job! Let me know what you think and how the Monica seminar goes!
TracyGood morning!
Yes, you might have been over-connecting/bending as a band aid for sure! No worries, it is an easy fix đ>> So is it my position? Rotating out too soon or away? Also she was high as a kite. Had to wait out some leg hugs after a reward. >>
It was not position, your line was good on all of them except maybe the first rep – it was a combination of not enough connection while running, and messy starts to the reps.
First, looking at the starts – if the start to the rep is surprising or messy, she had a very high likelihood of failure. By surprising or messy, I mean that you kind of flung her in and took off, when either she was eating or barking or bouncing around. When it was a clean start? Very nice! Now, I know she is a high arousal dog and you might be avoiding dealing with some of that but now is a good time to work those clean starts because it will help you both a LOT in the future đ
I would like you to do a clean start on these reps, each time: line up at your side (using a cookie lure is fine for that, but you must let her finish it and swallow before you send her to the wing, there were a lot of reps where you delivered the food and then took off, so she was eating/coughing/choking) then gently slip a hand on her collar, start the verbal, then let go and step to the wing. You had the cleanest start of all the reps at 1:31 and not surprisingly, she was perfect.
Be ridiculously systematic and clean on the start of the reps, it will make a massive difference. She does not naturally bring patience and a desire to line up at your side, but working it in each time with a super high rate of reinforcement will be a game changer for you both.
As far as the connections – looking at 1:33, for example – as she came around the wing, you had direct eye contact while moving (and not moving super fast), with the dog-side shoulder dropped back and the toy in the outside arm. You can see this also at 1:20, 2:21, and 2:44. Also, on all of those reps, you were moving well but not racing her.
Compare that to :08 (motion a little lateral on this one too), :47, :49, :59, for example – no clear eye contact, you were looking ahead of her, with dog side shoulder closed forward so she didn’t quite no where to be.
So building on the clean starts to each rep, add in the reinforcement in the opposite arm, shown across your body as you move up the line – that gets the eye contact and dog-side shoulder dropping back while allowing you to stay in motion.
Also, revisit the turn and burn game form MaxPup 1, where you do these wraps and accelerations, with a lot of emphasis on connection while running.:
>>We had another dog there which I wanted the distraction. Not sure if that played a role.>>
She might have been more stimulated? But she certainly looked engaged and that is great!
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I think this is going well! And it looks like she 100% took the jump when she arrived at the backside, which speaks to really strong placement of reinforcement.
>>. First side she did great turning left.
Yes, that looked really good. My only suggestions for that (more on the running line below) are to use a toy drop marker when you drop the toy in, so the backside verbal predict the ‘get it’ placement. and, it seems to be easier to get the toy in early when it is in your dog side hand.
One note about the front side rep at :33 – you can start the verbal and decel as she is exiting the start wing. At :33, she took off long based on your acceleration, and the decel and dig verbal started as she took off so it was too late for her to adjust. So as her nose exits the start wing, begin the dig dig verbal and then when her body is around the start wing, decelerate as you are moving forward – you don’t need to rotate until she is closer to the jump, but the earlier verbal and decel will help give her time to adjust for the collection.
>>When I switched sides I got a lot of fronts and I think I had my angle wrong. I wasnât running towards the wing. Changed that and went to a treat hugger as I wasnât sure the toy was rewarding enough.
The angle might have been a little harder but I think it was more of a running line issue we can tweak (and not so much of a shoulder issue). There was only one miss here on the video, at :59. What happened was as soon as you started the verbal, you also pulled away laterally at high speed, so the sudden change in motion pulled her off the backside. Quick changes of motion will generally override verbals at this age – my guess is you were trying to get past he exit wing for the countermotion exit.
On the other reps where she got it, you were moving more forward to the entry wing, almost curving your line towards it – but that makes is super hard to get to the countermotion exit.
In the long term, the countermotion exits will be really easy if you can be moving up the line to the center of the bar and not towards the entry wing so for now, let’s focus on the running line. It has definitely helped me to put a line or leash on the ground to I can help myself stay parallel to the line I want and not migrate over to the entry wing. So for now, the line goes from the start wing to where the bar meets the entry wing and you run on the line.
Then, the line moves over inch by inch so it ends up going to the center of the bar. You will want to be moving on that line the whole time and not pull away to it at this point, so when you start her at the start wind: it can be helpful to position yourself near the start of the line you want to run – on the same ‘plane’ as the start wing but not right next to it. So that way you will be sending her away a bit to the start wing and as she exits, you will already be moving up the parallel line to her path, towards the center of the bar. When you see her locked onto the backside entry wing, you can then move away to wherever you want to do the exit line.
>>Then, tried the banana arm. I think thatâs what Iâll need to keep my shoulders correct.
At 1:16, the opposite arm allowed you to move more slowly up the line a little further away, keeping your feet more forward to the bar – that was the right combo of feet moving forward (and not moving off the line as much) and less motion because you added the challenge of being further away.
All of those factors play in together at this point, but that running line is probably her biggest challenge for now. Let me know if that makes sense and how the next sessions go!
Nice work đ
TracyGood morning! Fingers crossed for dry weather! You can submit videos through May 18th đ Have fun with the garden!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
These are looking brilliant! He found all of the left/right turns really nicely thanks to lovely connection. And the in in stuff looks GREAT!!!!Since he is getting faster and faster (and will be even faster when he is fully adult) – we can obsess on a tiny detail of arm position that will support the lines better and get you to better position as well:
After the in in wing (which puts you a little behind)and getting to the wings on the other side of the tunnel, something to experiment with is *not* using a high, parallel arm (like at :12-:15) to support the line. It slows you down and risks blocking connection, so you can try just running (arms low and back, or pumping at your sides) to see how it feels.
You can see the arm causes question at :31 – he looks at you and then goes back out based on your motion
At the end, at :47-:49 you had that low arm – it got rid of his question because he can see connection more clearly, and produced more foot speed for you. When I compare your position at :31 versus :49, you are further ahead at :49 because the lower arm allows you to accelerate more, versus the high arm which slows you down.
Great job here! It is fun to plan the tiny details to help handle his speed!!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>> Well we did a short practice at Carrieâs tonight. Mostly small sequencing and Fever going back to the pool
I asked Carrie about blocking it off but she said it still doesnât change the fact that heâs leavingâŚ>>Yes, I agree with Carrie. Blocking it off can prevent the actual swimming but he is still leaving which means too much failure. To help him learn to engage in the presence of the most powerful Kryptonite, you can control the environment in other ways – further distance from the pool, higher value reinforcement, shorter sessions. The reinforcement value will be the hardest because we want to find things that can compete with the environment but can also be used in an agility setting: so swimming and throwing a frisbee are challenging to use. You might need to go to super high food value, like a nice mid-rare steak? What is his highest value wet gross food?
>>Anyway towards the end of our session, a sheltie broke out of an ex pen and ran at him.
Both postured, Fever growled a little BUT NO ONE THREW HANDS
thank god because Fever was like 3x the sheltie and it belonged to a junior.
Anyway. Juniors gathered sheltie calmly, which then allowed me to walk to Fever and feed him.Sounds like you all handled it really well!
>>He took food but was then spooked, shut down after
Anything that I should do knowing we are showing Saturday and Sunday? Should I not train?>>The spook is more of a chemical response than anything. You can get some sniffing engaged (tossing treats into the grass) and some chewing. And correct – no training needed, but I would say the same thing on the Thursday before a 2 day trial anyway! Rest! What I would do is try to get more serotonin into his brain, maybe some oxytocin going too – so just play some frisbee or go swimming without tiring him too much and without any behavior attached to it. Those 2 things are ultra high value and should be a part of life, but separately need to have more stimulus control when training.
Let me know if that makes sense.
TracyGood morning!
>> As the Saturday wore on, the behavior fell apart. Not surprising given the reinforcement history. The barking and dancing increased without her offering or performing a lineup.
Yes, the reinforcement history is much bigger for the other behavior, plus mental depletion plays a role – how many runs were FEO where you were able to specifically reinforce the line up in the ring? Bringing new behaviors into the ring require a decent amount of reinforcement to override the reinforcement history of other behaviors.
Two other things – her stays are always best when you are turning off the pressure, and also the between-the-feet lineup works best when she moves into position from behind you. So combining those two things: leave her in the stay behind you, step forward then call her into position (you started with her in front of you, and she really doesnât have as strong reinforcement history on that yet). And then as soon as she is in position? Get outta there – no leaning over, no fiddling with position, no walking away… just jog outta there. That is when she is at her very best! I know it is not the âtraditionalâ approach to a start line but this ainât obedience LOL!!!
>>So Sunday, I went back to letting her settle and leave. Question. She is moving from a sit to a down when she was lining up and then into a play bow as I moved away. Thoughts? Should I change to asking for a down instead?>>
This builds into what I mention above – we really donât care which position she holds, as longs as she holds her position, doesnât move forward, doesnât break the stay. So whichever line up you use, she will be at her best if you just tell her to stay and then run away. I have video of this somewhere in the demos with Hot Sauce and I sometimes do it with CB too: when stimulations levels are high for whatever reason, I just say stay and get outta there. No pressure, I just lead out (of course there is engagement before that, so the dog is not surprised by my departure LOL!!) The stay cue for my dogs, and for Roulez as well, is a form of that âfreeze danceâ game – whenever you hear it, stop moving, position is not relevant. So Hot Sauce stands, and CB will either stand or put himself into a sit (both are fine :)) Neither moves a foot til I release. Roulez is very similar, just louder đ so it is worth a try! I also do a TON of reinforcement in the trial ring for stays because I love stays LOL!
On the pattern games, were you waiting for eye contact? You can reinforce any engagement that is NOT out at the great big universe, even if she is looking at your hands đ A fun pattern game variation for her would be to wait for her to offer being quiet, but that would need to start with a really low level of stimulation (history of barking built in makes it harder :)). Criteria for the reinforcement could be closed mouth đ
Doing the pattern game with the food mixed in worked well with the toy!
Time for more Kryptonite because she is doing really well with this – when training on your own, what makes her really stimulated?On the line up section – on the first reps, that is what I mean by she understands moving to position from behind you, not when facing you. So in a trial environment, you can leave her in a semi-stay, go to your spot, then call her into position. Compare to 3:05 ish where she was not really behind you and couldnât get the line up from the side or in front of you – she as engaged and offering, but she doesnât understand it from in front – she did eventually get it, but that was at 3:34, after she offered something else which put her behind you. When she was behind you, she recognized the cue. That is useful to know! Good job rewarding that moment.
At 2:48 you got the down behavior, but you probably donât need it. She moved into position well, you can dismount and run to your lead out. It seems that leaning over is a cue to bark đ so no need to fiddle with it because more barking means more movement and more arousal. Her âall businessâ variation might be more along the lines of âget outta there as fast as possibleâ for you.
More on getting her into position – at 3:48 and 4:43 she was behind you and went right into position, great line ups and stays the whole time!
So using the set up where she starts a little behind you and moves into position, you can now put this into more kryptonitey situations. Can she line up in front of the pool? In front on a tunnel?
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> as of now I donât think Promise could handle class and me teaching. Iâm Working on her crating skills and patiently waiting. That is a LONG way off.
It sounds perfect for a Kryptonite game! You can have her crated in the house and bring her out to do a pattern game or something during a walk through. Using her as demo dog is GREAT!!!!
>>v So, she is starting to push the envelope again on her start line. I realize from your comments itâs probably my fault too lol!!! In my mind at judys I was taking steps lol, the video did not lie hahaha.>>
Yes, you were not leading out at Judyâs đ Usually when a behavior erodes, it is a reinforcement issue, as in: when was the last time you reinforced it, specifically? Even on this video, the move into the position and stay was not reinforced specifically (the marker to get the reinforcement came after a couple of jumps). So balance everything with frequent reinforcement for both moving into the âreadyâ position and reinforcing specifically for holding the position (throwing the reward back to her, or using her remote reinforcement marker to get the treats behind her). That is part of what makes agility so complex: all the small pieces need to be maintained through criteria maintenance and reinforcement, throughout the dogâs career.
On the video:
>> I did have a lightbulb today, that I may not be asking her for the ready when she has engagement with me.>>
Thinking about this – yes, she might need to be engaged before the ready cue. It is entirely possible that she need to be *more* stimulated to hold her stay, not less stimulated. Optimal arousal state is pretty high, so you can try getting her more stimulated with tricks and such before the stay behavior. On the very first stay where she did not hit position right away or hold it as well (you mark it as incorrect twice) – you were very chill bringing her to the start line, lots of stationary things happening before you came in. A little too much all business perhaps, outside the ring?
Before the next 2 stays, there was a lot more action: tugging, tricks etc – so she was immediately better and there was higher arousal and more engagement, and more success.
So she might be all business as you lead out, but she might need a lot of action before she enters the ring and on the way to the line. On the 3rd rep where she was sniffing – this was over 5 minutes into the session, which might not see like a lot but it is indeed a long time. You can set a timer on the session and go for 2.5 minutes then take a break. And, if you get surprise sniffing, no problem: use your toolbox to get her re-engaged by moving her slightly away from the sniff spot and doing some higher energy tricks. That should help đ
So I think overall, the remote reinforcement line up games (and sequence running) can be balanced more with rewarding the stay specifically (and not just with remote reinforcement, you can have food/toys in your hands or pockets). That will keep the behavior from eroding as you work on other stuff too đ With a baby dog, I like to reinforce at least 50% of stays in training!
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This was fun to see!
First 2 reps were cartoon mashup – this was the winner overall the ‘all business’ lead outs! Running on the cartoon releases, trotting on the all business releases, She was faster and more engaged when you were doing your Elmer Fudd/Pink Panther đ Look at her at the beginning – distracted but then enticed by the silly walk. On the 2nd rep, she was very focused and there were a zillion distractions in the environment. Were you also talking to her? It was hard to hear. If so – great! If not… add some quiet talking like ‘ready… ready….’
The only other things I would add in would to take the leash off (if possible) and don’t give her a cookie on the stay before you lead out. Those are not that useful for building the behavior and are very hard to fade when working to get her comfy in the trial environment.
You can also add in the jump! Let me know how it goes, I liked her responses on the cartoon mashup reps!
TracyGood morning (or afternoon there? LOL!)
>> we are trying to combine a few things here. tell me what u think. So i am in an area where there are big smells. I have a remote reward .. his treats are in the container. As he seems to struggle as soon as I unclip the leash at trials ⌠I am trying to unclip followed by games followed by take a jump and run back to reward on cue. Here is Sparky. >>
Yes, I agree, that moment when you take the leash off is super important! As you work on that, remember to balance the games out – yes, sometimes be super high energy but also work the games where you are low energy and NOT cuing engagement and teaching him to offer it, reflexively. The low energy games are actually more important because it teaches him to make the decisions in the moment and modulate his arousal/distractions – the cues and tricks are great but they wonât work all the time at a trial if he doesnât know how to make the decision.
This was SUPER high energy which is great, and high energy will help him! You can create a sequence of run in, leash off, touch, then take off for the jump (more below on a better sequence idea for this).
Also, restart with the leash every single time. It is a pain to put it back on but the issue is with taking off the leash, so you have to have taking off the leash as part of the game. So after every reinforcement, put the leash back on, leave the area, come right back in, take the leash off, and so on.
For the low energy games where you teach him to offer – we have already been working on it and he is doing well, so insert those into these games:
– you can run in like you did here.
– Take the leash off
– Then stand still, in a crouched, game on engaged posture and let him offer looking at you.
– When he looks at you (looking at you is the opposite of sniffing!) then you can go wild with the hand touches, release to the jump, etc.
By skipping the offered engagement and going directly to the hand touches, you are making his engagement reliant on your energy level and whether or not he can respond to those cues in that situation. High energy is a management technique and it can be helpful – but in the places where you cannot be high energy, or if you have to look away for a heartbeat, he needs to understand how to moderate his own internal state.By inserting the offered engagement? You are building up the understanding of how to ignore distractions without you needing to rely on your high energy. And by letting him offer then doing the tricks/jump, you are reinforcing the offering as well which will increase it!
Also – speaking of high energy – how are the engaged chill/relaxation games going? There is a substantial amount of time spent outside the ring, waiting for your turn, and it is impossible to use high energy to maintain engagement the whole time. That is exhausting for you both! So the engaged chill (and take a breath) games really help, as do the pattern games.
Any luck getting him into a group class of some sort? This is an important step for him to bridge the gap between home training and trials.
>>A lot of people are saying to me I should have the reward in front of him in training â bec what i am doing is only teaching him to run backwards for the treat âŚ
I donât think they fully know what the training goals are and why. We are not teaching him to run forwards or backwards đ We are teaching him to come to the start line with engagement and a happy feeling, not stressed and able to ignore scents when there are no visible reinforcements in your hands or on the course. If the reward is in your hand or ahead of him on course – yes, he will be great but then he wonât understand how to do that in trials.
>>i feel Iâm on the right path⌠My only battle with him .. and its big .. is the leash off seems to be the permission to disengage and sniff!! thatâs the behaviour I need to repairâŚ>>
I agree, you are on the right path! Reframe how you are thinking about it a bit: it is not a battle, he is not naughty đ He is struggling and stressed – so we can help him! Think of it as helping your teammate and not battling your teammate. I donât know if he thinks the leash off as permission or a cue to sniff, it is probably more of a stress-related behavior that got built in because trials are stressful, especially when all the food is behind the dog. So by helping him understand how to earn the reinforcement that is behind him and outside the ring, and also teaching him how valuable it is to offer engagement when the leash comes off (rather than sniff) – and also how to relax in the environment – you will be able to help him and change his feeling on the start line.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Yes. i am leaning toward itâs a nothing since the exit from the jump isnât any kind of a turn. Based on one of your explanations a bit ago of left and right being for what shape the exit from the jump is those donât seem correct since the exit is a straight line with no turn right after the jump. I almost put jumps in those spots with the bumps in place specifically because of that question but opted to stick with the game setup.>>
You can go ahead and put bumps in for the visual to decide the verbals! I name the directionals based on what the dog needs to do before takeoff to create the turn – so the big dogs would get a left or right directional because they have to collect to create the L shaped turn (if the jump bar is facing the tunnel) and definitely if the jump bar is perpendicular to the tunnel.
> A goofy puppy is good! And what you might see as less drivey can also be interpreted as less aroused, which is GREAT because I much prefer the dogs come into these sports will less arousal, making it easier to modulate the arousal later on. Looking back at my puppy videos, CB and Elektra look almost sleepy LOL!! But, as 2 year olds now they are very fast AND centered in their arousal states. Beka will be very similar – it is LOVELY to trial dogs like this!
>>Week 1 â Wind in the Hair
So, since we are outside now I decided to work this again so we could build up distance that we couldnât do in the basement and as a bit of prep for doing the tunnel exits game next. No issues here >>Looked great! My only thoughts were little things like âheavier toyâ (which you did), âthrow a little soonerâ (which you did) and you can also repeat the GO more than once so on the bigger distances and courses, the repeated verbal really supports her line.
This WIYH setup gets used for a bunch of things, so keep working the Go lines as you add in the rear crosses, backside wraps, and front side wraps đ
>>I have the tunnel exit game set up now and have a couple of questions:
â Should we do a few âgoâ games with the tunnel too before playing it? I looked for a game that did this before the tunnel exit game but not seeing one (maybe max pup 1?) as I think she might need that practise as prep since she has never had a chance to blast out of a tunnel in the basement.>>Yes, definitely prep and refresh it since it is the first time outside – we did some in MaxPup 1 and this game makes it easy too, but you can totally do a bit of refreshing before adding more turns.
>>â Only have a 20Ⲡtunnel in the yard right now, should we shorten it up, mostly for the go part to the wing? thinking it is going to be hard to help show her to go around the wing the times she goes straight out of the tunnel like you do with Elektra in the video.>>
If you can shorten it and prevent it from moving or possibly catching her toes, then OK – but I like tunnels to be stretched out and well-secured, so the other option is to have the Go wing really close to the exit of the long tunnel, and set yourself up to cheat a bit by getting ahead so you can connect and handle the line for the Go to the wing. You wonât need to cheat when she understands the Go exit more, but the cheating is a great start LOL!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!!
I’m sorry to hear about the bout of covid. I think we are all going to get it at some point – I had it in February. I got lucky (super mild case, just a stuffy nose). Sorry to hear about the fatigue!!!!!You can keep posting til May 18th, so hopefully that gives you time to recover more. Feel free to tweak these into things like tunnel or jump sends while you sit on the couch!
Keep me posted and feel better soon!
Tracy
