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Hi!
Since we are discussing jumping… 🙂
He made all sorts of good decisions with the accordion grid!
What is the distance between jumps 1 and 2? I think it is a tiny bit long for now, so he is landing a little short on 2 which makes it harder to power into 3. You can see it on rep 2 and 4 when he was sorting out adding the collected 1-stride between 2 and 3. So we can shorten the space between 1 and 2 by about a foot, to help him compress and coil like a spring to propel into the next jump. I think as he develops, he will start bouncing the distance between 2 and 3 on reps 2 and 4 🙂He also did well on the lateral lead out game! He seemed to have no trouble finding the jump and understanding to also turn. Super!!! When you arrive in the lead out position, take one more heartbeat to connect, then take a breath, even tell him he is cute… then release. You did this pretty much at 1:22 (it was a stay reminder rather than praise but that works too). On the other reps, you were tending to reconnect and release all at the same time – and he will quickly pair the reconnection into the release, leading to anticipation and more elevator butt. So that extra moment of connect, praise then release (or throw the reward back) will help maintain the stay.
He seems ready for the advanced level, replacing the wing with a jump and adding in more handling moves 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>. My other 2 agility males were toy breeds so it’ll be a learning experience for me.
Toy breeds will have such different structure (terrier and papillon, right?) that the jumping form will look really different (higher heads in general because of the front end structure).
>> Even our other BC Jax is only 18”. Admittedly I am super sensitive to bar knocking because Jax has ETO (Gina Day Dx as alternating strabismus) and I spent some time trying to “fix it”. Ronan seems to have a better natural jumping style than her and is more rounded already.>>
Ah yes, ETO is hard!!! I don’t see Ronan showing any indication of that (although I can totally relate to why you would be sensitive to it), so we are that stage of looking for the sweet spot and letting him grow up a bit. The demo videos from last night are a good example: my little Elektra dog was sorta bouncing 3 foot distances with no real speed or power. She was about a year old when I filmed those demos. She is now two years old and can power bounce 10 foot distances with no trouble. There is a lot to be said for letting physical maturity help us out 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>>> I thought so too and it felt effortless running him. His outside class is one of the most challenging environments – freeway, train, rabbits, rock band, and bacon factory. Plus that sand is harder to get footing and not fun to eat dropped cookies. Inside he’s much better and it has AC.
Rock band and BACON FACTORY? I am distracted just reading that LOL!!! And the goal is that running him should feel effortless – I am so glad you felt it on Sunday!
>> what do you think were your most useful and successful tools at the trial?
Volume dial with food waiting in line
Engaged chill away from ring
Pattern game I only used a little for really exciting sounds
Crating in the car with AC really helped>>Awesome! It will be good to track how these games stack up in future trials, especially as you move to the next training in the ring steps.
>>I really didn’t have to use many tools at trial. The leash off engagement at home/class really transferred to the ring. Kryptonite with leash runner in class helped. Volume dial with clam on his first start kept his focus so I didn’t need anything for the other ones.>>
It is good to know that the training is already showing up at trials!!
>> And what did not work as well (such as instant focus on Saturday)
Yeah, instant focus does not work well as 1st thing, even when I tried at different places. I did have his bed set up in shade so he did hop on it right away after we had already been walking around. He didn’t use it the rest of the time though but it was a magnet for a border collie who liked boundaries. The bed works in class away from ring.>>So pattern games and volume dial definitely rank above the instant focus. Noted!
>>His class Monday felt worse than it looked on video. He has more trouble right after a trial on Sunday since there’s no break. My instructor asked if I had commands for the jumps and sending back. Unfortunately it was even hotter Monday night than Sun afternoon and he was not in the AC.>>
Having a poopy-feeling class after a good weekend is normal – both of you were probably still tired and depleted! No worries, he still got lots of reinforcement and a lot of good things happened!
>>1st run
The Elmer Fudd walk was unintentional but maybe influenced by seeing your video before class. There was a really loud noise that distracted him so I was trying to sneak in a lead out while waiting for his attention. Seemed noisier than usual and even I was distracted by some of the chatter. I got scolded by him for being behind on the jumps at the end.>>Ah yes, I hard the noises and the other dogs barking! But he remained engaged and did well. When he was ahead and got mad at you – when you are behind him and running to keep up 🙂 you don’t need your arm pointing ahead – you can just pump your arms like a sprinter and run 🙂 that keeps your shoulders showing the line better even if you are behind.
2nd run – I see what you mean about the leash distraction. My guess is that part of it is that the ‘action’ stopped with the tunnel under the dog walk challenge so he got distracted by that and by the leash moving. It would be interesting to see if that happens on a jump/tunnel line too when he stays in motion?
Using the tricks to get him back in gear was great – volume dial!>>3rd run
My instructor is enjoying being Kryptonite. I heard one of my classmates complaining she distracted him and she told him she was a judge and allowed to move. I was happy to get the practice and rewarded with his clam.>>Ha! I am so glad she is having some fun with this 🙂 And she is right – the judge will be moving, so she is totaly allowed to be a moving distraction here.
He had a refusal on the yellow tunnel at the beginning, but that was more of a deceletration from you causing it and not the leash moving even though he did look backat her. He was perfect about passing her with focus until :36 when you were looking forward and that pulled him off the jump. He is a dog that thrives on connection, so in that moment I think a stronger cue would be a low arm pointing back to him, and a bit of eye contact (while you are running :)) then he got distracted.
So we are seeing a pattern here: he ignores distraction when things are going along nicely… but when there is an error or break in the action, he looked around. That means he needs to play the Find My Face game. In case you make a mistake, he will know to look at you and not at the distraction! Yay! It is an easy game to teach and add to the toolbox.
>>He was not so calm in class and after one of his runs we were headed back while the other dog was running nearby. His clasp on the harness had not fully latched so he pulled out and went to interact with the female Sheltie. I was calling him back so I didn’t see but they said she gave him a female correction and he stopped and came back to me>>
That was probably just the depletion in action – he had a busy weekend with a lot of success, and he di dwell in class! He made a mental error of visiting the girl sheltie 🙂 and that is a common depletion-based error. But then he came back to you, all good!
Great job here – the Find My Face is next up on the list of games for him and it will be fun to put it in action!
TracyGood morning!
Definitely progress here, he was a good boy! It cracks me up that the cookies are the ones in the crate, playing crate games LOL!
Definitely hold the leash in the early part of the session – you tend to drop the leash and he scoots off to the distraction. It is those first few reps that are the most important, so holding the leash is helpful!
This was a high energy volume dial session, and he did well with the tricks and the running. So now we map out the next steps:
To ultimately answer his question about ignoring the smells and food, add in more of the games so that his engagement does not depend on your energy level, or on you asking for tricks in rapid successive. Ideally, he can ignore the food distractions while you are *not* cuing engagement with the treats and not being super energetic. Otherwise, you will be tied into controlling his choices with the tricks and your energy level, which can be really difficult to do.
So since he is doing so well with the tricks/volume dial game, you can add in the other games that do not depend on tricks or high energy levels from you:
– The pattern game is super important, because it teaches him to offer engagement in the face of distractions without needing help from you
– the off leash offered engagement is a great one too, because you basically stand there and take the leash off… and see what he does 🙂 You can use two leashes in a big outdoor environment if you think he might scoot off, but taking the leash off and rewarding him for offering engagement is really helpful for the start line!
And once he can do all of this with reinforcement on you in the treat pockets… the next step would be to take those off and leave them outside the ring. When you do that, you can have a treat or two in your pants pocket, or you can use the remote reinforcement approach which is also super important.
The volume dial games still get used, as a way to pump him up before the start of the session or run – but they are just a small piece of it because we want to also emphasize him offering engagement without you having to ask for it a lot.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>And these are in succession.
Were they all from the morning, or from the night session?
>>There was scary and non-scary kryptonite, new people when we came in ( who left ), rooster/hen noise, kids/dogs neighbor noise, freshly irrigated and cut grass, car backfires, multiple times. So I decided not have students stand near ring and bring out all the APDBs. >>
Smart to NOT add distractions when the environment was already adding them for you 🙂 If these videos are from the morning, how did she do in the evening training? When you recognize a really challenging environment, the first game should be pattern games. And when she is doing well with those, go to the volume dial game, then to off leash offered engagement.
>>And, she wanted the tennis balls instead 🤪. Go figure! >>
Ah, dogs… LOL! Reinforcement is in the eye of the beholder, so it was good to go with the balls.
>>I have a lot to say about these videos, but wisely, I’d like to hear what you have to say instead.>>
Definitely let me know what you think! My thoughts: in general, I think you will make faster progress if you are more systematic in your use of reinforcement. Use it to really pinpoint the moments you want to build up, like ignoring the people. On the videos, you mostly were running agility and rewarding at the end or bottom of a contact, but we can pinpoint other things as well. She did get reinforcement for ignoring the person or doing the weaves, but those were after failures. Try to look at the course from a different perspective: where are her kryptonite challenges? And what can you do to help with those, other than the sequence? Attacking the kryptonite first will help the sequences!
She also did really well with the remote reinforcement chair! I think you also had reinforcement with you (pocket or hand) but she was really good about ignoring the chair til cued. You can do short bursts of sequences with no reinforcement on you – but that is less important and lower on the priority list than training the skills of engagement and getting her less anxious about the people nearby.
And, in new environments, I think you can also play some kryptonite games – like the pattern game on leash with tossed treats or two tennis balls replacing the treats, walking past the new people.
>>So. We actually caught her barking at someone on tape. I call this a drive by barking, not the leave me to alarm bark at someone.>>
yes – there was a random person standing on the line near the poles, looking at her. The drive by was just a smaller version of leaving to bark, and it is the perfect opportunity to leave the agility obstacles for a moment, and work the engagement games with the ‘kryptonite’. It is safe to assume that a person nearby and looking directly at her might trigger barking… so rather than try to work a sequence into the weave poles, it is more important to work the pattern game of assess the environment and return engagement to you by playing the cookie pattern game on the flat, near-ish to the person, no obstacles involved.
Asking her to weave with the person was right there was too challenging, so she struggled (barked at the person). For now, take the weaves out of the equation entirely – her success rate on weaves in this location was a bit too low without the distraction, which guaranteed failure with the distraction. So, first do pattern games on the flat, then you can add in people to the ring crew and work that skill.
And, especially since you are training here, spread your reinforcement out on course more – your rewards were coming out at the end of the course or end of contacts (or on the weaves after an error) but I think you will see her be able to ignore the environment more if you note the places where she runs past a person, for example – reward that immediately rather than carry on. And, when there is a handling error, you will keep her engagement in a better state if you reset with a reward, then try again.
Looking at the beginning of each run, she did a little better when you had the ball or moving tricks for treats as part of the pre-run warm up, so keep things really active as you bring her into each run. This is the volume dial game in action, and it will really help with engagement.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Too bad they don’t fit in a nice gelato jar!
You ight need to find toys for her that do fit in those nice Gelato jars! Much tastier than mayo LOL!
Good morning!
>>And boy has Zippie gotten good at the Carry In / Set Down / Look at Mom. I’m so happy!
Awesome! The power of conditioning!!
Next steps: Let her engage before you move your cookie hands and also be sure there is nothing visible in your hands when you carry her in and put her down – in pockets, yes, and you can definitely pull out a cookie and reward after the engagement – but we don’t want the visible cookies or cookie hands moving to be the cue to engage.
Great job involving your friend as ring crew! She did well here. I also think on leash cookie-toss pattern games past ring crew – in the agility ring – are something you should do. This would just be on leash – not with agility involved, but just moving back and forth on the flat around the ring. that can be super clarifying for her!
If there is a person really nearby that she struggles with and needs to assess (like at :19) – be chill, let her assess, go into pattern game mode 🙂 Don’t block her, don’t call her back (she is not gong to respond with low latency anyway) and don’t use a cookie cookie cue (because it is a lure that will be unavailable in a trial environment). That is a definite pattern game moment: let her explore the distraction and when she re-engages: reward! What do you do in that moment where she needs to look at or sniff the distraction? Nothing 🙂 Just stand there and wait. Remember that her offering of engagement is what brings the cookie out, it is not cued engagement. Stand there, wait for her. It is only a few seconds of time but letting her sort it out will go a long way to helping her not get distracted. And having done it in the basic pattern game form (on leash in the ring, on the flat, no obstacles) will totally help establish her ability to ignore the ring crew.
After she assessed the person? She was much happier and did really well! She did well with the remote reinforcement, too! Remember to keep things very clean in terms of reinforcement and resets/starts of reps. We don’t want her to ask any questions – for example at 1:41, you brought her back to the start but then didn’t reset or reward, you just turned rght back into the sequence. I think clarity and clean starts are important and she definitely had question marks over her head about what was happening. It looks like there was a small on-the-fly cookie but it was a hard challenge for her, so a bigger moment of reinforcement is helpful (more like what you did at 2:44, that was a big party!), followed by a clean reset and restart.
When is her next class or training opportunity? Can you sneak into the ring before a class starts, or during a different class, so you can do the on leash ring crew pattern games? It is kryptonite installed into the basic pattern games.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> I WILL bring our instant focus object next time.
The instant focus object is best for the first time in a new environment, so yes – bring it to the show but it is mainly for that first moment of arrival. You can also toss it into the car and take her a couple of new places this week, to play the game on the road.
>>If I’m asking her to line up and she stares and barks at me, how would you handle that? Say in a FEO run??>>
Move her to a slightly different spot, then set up the line up cue better. When she did it reall ywell, you left her in a bit of a stay, moved to your spot, called her into position. When it was not smooth, you were trying to do it with her kinda at your side, kinda in front of you – and it didn’t make sense to her.
If you are trying to make it clear and she just can’t do it? Note that, but then ask a different question in the moment – move to a slihtly different spot and ask for a stay and lead out. We note it for training purposes but we don’t keep asking for it in the moment.
>>Since my lineup is a work in progress, for “real” runs, should I stick to my present lineup or ask for my new one>>
Is the FEO run the first run? What happens there will give you the better answer, but if she is pretty successful with the clean line up, you can use it in any run. The ‘real’ run and the FEO run are only different because of where the reward is (inyour hand/pocket, or outside the ring). So if you are able practice the line up at home in a remote reinforcement game (no reward in your hand, the reward is behind you) and she is successful – then it is fine to use it in a non-FEO run.
The cookie-free pattern game (and the regular pattern game) is hard at home when she is naturally really engaged – you probably need to set up a disraction. When you said ‘go see’ she was confused and thought you wanted her to bring you a toy, and there was one nearby. So you can set up a distraction station and, with her on leash, walk past it as if entering the ring. The distraction canbe something she will want to look at (a toy on a table or something like that) so she learns to assess the environment, moderate her internal arousal, and engage with you 🙂
And when she does re-engage, I think cleaner markers will make things even easier. For the cookie free pattern games, when she re-engages, cue the behavior rather than give a big yes. Same with the 2 toys in your hands – use a ‘take’ marker and not a yes, because yes can easily get confusing as to whether or not she should ignore the toy or grab it on the yes. You had clearer markers when you had the cookies involved – but the toss and the tug in your hand were both ‘get it’ markers. She can of course figure it out based on hand movement, but ideally you have different markers (get it for a toss, take for toy in hand?)
She was barking a lot – partially because it was stimulating and the toy nearby was confusing to her, and partially because she barks when stimulated and that is great to work through. I don’t think we are ever going to have a silent Roulez 🙂 and that is fine. I don’t mind barking in agility as long as she is happily understanding her jobs and responding to cues 🙂
Great job here! I think the main thing will be to set up distractions at home, or do little road trips so there are distractions in the environment 🙂
Tracy
Hi! I think this is the run I didn’t see, I must have missed it, oops! This run is REALLY strong! He was mostly fast and focused here – he has a little trouble running past ring crew (definitely something to add to classes or training sessions). And also, take a look at the lead out:
You were all business as you moved to your lead out position (calm, not fully connected even though you were moving fast from :15-:19) and his state of arousal dropped. When that happened, distractions in the environment become more visible (he looked over at the judge) and latency gets higher/responses slower (he didn’t release on the first cue). But then when you crouched a little at :19 and said “ready” – boom! Off he goes, nice and fast. So I definitely think the cartoon lead outs will be useful for him! You will probably get so much engagement that you will need to shorten the lead outs a bit so he doesn’t break his stay as he is learning this.
Let me know how the cartoon lead outs go!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree – she is doing REAL AGILITY now 🙂 Hooray!!!The wrap proofing and Smiley Face games looked great! I am really excited about how well she is leading with her head through the wraps – that indicates she is going to be turning really well on jumps!
You can add more running as you reward, rather than stopping her as much with the food. Will she play tug outside? More movement with fod or tou rewards can help bring up her engagement even more – she only had one moment of losing engagement (1:20) but that was more about you having a hug moment so she perhaps thought she was a on a bit of a break 🙂
One more suggestion – if you give an early “yes”, she might pull off her commitment to the wing so try to either delay the yes marker or toss the food to the other side of the wing (or both :)) so she is not quite as locked onto your hands and is looking at the wing more.
For the next session, spread the wings out further from the tunnel, so she has more room to feel the joys of running 🙂 She is ready for it for sure!
Same thing with the Wind In Your Hair game – she is ready for more distance between the jump and the wing so she can run more 🙂 You can totally use your Go Go Go verbal. She really liked the tossed treats here – and you can also try a lotus ball or a treat hugger, so the reward is more toy-like. Eventually this can be all toys for her if she likes that, but food seems to be the winning reinforcement for now 🙂
Great job here! Onwards to more running and real agility 🙂
TracyMy leggings say thank you! I call these the Pebbles Flintstone leggings because they seem very Flintstones to me haha
Train both of the games so you and he know them. They both g in the toolbox – and as he gets mor experienced, the one you need in trialing will reveal itself. And if you think he is in one state and something changes at the start line, you can always whip out the other one in that moment! So if he seems ‘all business’ but then he has a big distraction, you can flip to the cartoon mashup to re-engage him. And vice versa – you might be planning a mashup but he is VERY EXCITED so you can change to all business in the moment (Elektra is like this now at trials – used to need a mashup lead out but now she needs me to be chill or her head will explode).
Let me know if that makes sense!
THi! Great job playing with both of these!
All business at home seemed fine, he was in a nice relaxed-but-engaged state but I don’t know if it will be correct for trials. it will be interesting to try it in training and see what happens. You were pretty disconnected as you sis the lead out here as far as I could see – even on “all business”, have a little bit of connection so you can see if he is moving/breaking and so he still feels the support of the connection.
> I kept forgetting to tell him to stay (he’s not breaking because there was never a stay command).
Yes, cue the stay 🙂 on all of these LOL!
>>Except I felt silly and on review I look like a normal ass person.
For the silly: you did look semi-silly here 🙂 You can make it more into the cartoon silliness by slowing down the creeping away (fast moving away is very challenging because it brings the dog right to the edge of breaking in terms of arousal). You can be more no your tippy toes, bent at the waist… plus that inhaling as if breathing in through a straw will really help this game look and feel more silly and engaging.
He definitely liked the silly lead out in terms of it seeming to be more engaging: he was more ‘ready’ on the release.
So take this to different places so we get a better handle on what helps him most. What is up next on his training/trialing/social calendar?
Tracy
Tracy
Good morning!
Ah yes, a bucket of tennis balls would do it. She wants to play flyball!!!
Both of these games are looking really good!
The ‘get out’ went really well on both sides. There was only one moment that wasa bit of a blooper, at :44 – your arm/upper body were doing the get out but your voice was doing the wrap verbal, so she was correct to NOT get out 🙂 Good girl, she was listening!
The rest had the verbal that matched the handling and she was perfect.For the next session, you can move the wing a little further from the jump which will give you more time to add in the cross in the advanced level, while challenging her to find the out jump that is further away. The advanced level looked great with the wing and jump close here, but it will be even easier (for you haha) when they are further away.
Mission Transition looks great too! Her commitment is looking strong – she was able to commit in collection while you were turning and moving like at 1:48 and 1:59! The only thing I will bug you about is to keep moving while you are connecting – you are generally good with that but at some of the exits of the wing wraps (like 1:28) you were a bit too bent over and staring at her LOL! Don’t be a helicopter mom 🙂 look at her, yes but keep moving. And if you are waiting near the start wing a bit so she can drive ahead, try not to bend over as much.
Her turning looks really great, especially with all of the Go reps mixed in!! Yay! I love that she is so balanced.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! The throws were not wrong, they were great for getting her to take the jump! Now we can add challenge with slices 🙂
T
Hi! The outs are going well! On the first side )lead chang eto her left) – she got better and better at finding the out jump (and it sounds like all of her go reps were good too!)
Adding the advanced step was good, because it helped lock in the behavior and where she needed to look:
At :41, you tossed a treat so she didn’t read the cross (busy eating LOL!) Then when she realized that you were doing a cross, she wanted to watch you – but you sorted it out and then at 1:18 it was GORGEOUS – her commitment was lovely and that turn was wicked tight! YAY! So this is a good game for her to learn to lock onto a line and leave you, even if you are moving the other way.I think lead changing to the right (towards the end of the video) is harder for her, so keep moving (try not to stand still at the line) and tossing the treats. Try to wait til she looks away to the jump before you throw, so she learns to look away immediately on the cue and not wait for the cookie toss.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
