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Hi!
Looking at the run with the patience thing in mind đ You were a little more patient maybe on the first run but not on the 2nd run (bar 2 down)One way to be more patient here while still running fast is to lead out less so you can run really hard but you will maintain the forward line to the tunnel better.
After the weaves, you can give him the threadle cue sooner too – ideally starting it when he is around pole 10 so he sees it and is ready for it when he exits.
Doing the Blind to wrap worked, but is slower, so working to get the slice line is a priority. Can you do a blind to that flip away (with you on the landing side of the jump) or a double blind (I personally love the double blind there, but I am a nut job hahaha) – you would blind before he exits the weaves (when he is around pole 8 or so) and then when he changes lines to come to the threadle side, you would do the 2nd blind for the jump. It is a fun skill and can be used to replace Threadle handling.He didnât come in on the backside at :38 and :54 – I think he is relying on a bit of physical cue, so you can train it so he doesnât need to be cued to come on, he just comes in. On a low bar, send him around the backside and as he is at the entry wing, throw a toy to the landing side as you keep running through (with no cue other than connection). That way you can keep running like you did here.
Great weaves!!! You had to scramble to get to the BC at 1:20 and he hit the wing – maybe keep him on your left as he is weaving for the tunnel rather than go to your right then back to your left. He can exit on the left and then it is a push to the jump which might be easier than the crosses at that speed.
The rotated turns their (FC to spin) got nice collection! One of the things we look at soon is which is faster: getting that collection like that? Or letting him rip and go a little wider so they donât have to slow down. It will be super interesting to see with both of your dogs!
7/13 run:
Lovely patient connected opening! And super threadle after the weaves đ Getting up to the decel on the weave entry really helped him! You ran fast but not sooooo fast that you broken connection or peeled away too soon, and you got where you needed to be.He came in and got the jump on both backsides but you are also helping by swinging your arm back, letâs see if we can fade that – just connect and keep moving, and throwing the toy in on the landing side (the low bar is useful during training so he doesnât hit the bar driving for the toy).
A small detail: he was surprised by the line on the tunnel exit at 2:13 and 2:29, turning too tight then popping back out – to help him, you can try to run more directly to the jump rather than serp across the tunnel exit as sharply (I think thatâs why he turned so tight).
On the weaves, your videographer said something about no more than one nice on a night – I agree, if the dogs get it the first time, you can skip asking for it again because those difficult skills are hard to keep doing and often go downhill after a success (dogs start to anticipate).
On the ending line – you were freaking the videographer out LOL!!!! The sound was SO FUNNY!
That ending line after the straight tunnel is really hard as a serp, because he sees where you were before the tunnel and is turning left – it makes the right turn so much harder – an then you end up further from the jumps so it is harder to get him to commit to the next one – I think keeping him on your left then serping the tunnel exit so he exits dog on left and then you move into a FC between the 2 jumps might be best.A bit of a no-patience moment at 2:55 – you were moving too fast but lost connection, so he was wide. You can still get to position with connection and running a little slower LOL
Super nice finish!Also interesting latent learning: Emmie and Kip both struggled with the threadle after the weaves on the first session but then both got it on 7/13 đ Yay!
Great job đ
Hi there! Looking at all 3 videos, I see a theme emerging: stay patient, donât rush. I know, I know, I hate the word âpatienceâ and also hate BEING patient hahaaha so we will look at specifics on what I mean. And you are going to laugh, because in general it means ârun slowerâ. When you were moving really fast in some places, you ended up losing the lines or leaving too soon, so something would go wrong. When you ran a little less fast? You had time to set up the cues and the dogs nailed it!
On the course:
opening line: you were just rushing a little bit on the opening line which is why she kept missing the tunnel: when she landed from 2 you were saying tunnel but disconnected and moving away (:07 and :15). Stay parallel to that line (donât turn your upper body away) until you see her looking at the correct tunnel . You were more patient at :38 but not fully patient LOL because she dropped the bar on the jump before the tunnel. Much better at 1:01 and you still got to the weave entry, no problem, by layering. You have plenty of time to get where you need to be on most courses, so remaining parallel to the line with connection until you see her look at the tunnel will help her pick up the line more independently.After the weaves – that is a hard threadle – that is something to start before she exits – let her see the hand come up and verbal can start too. It is a tremendous challenge and a trained skill, but definitely something to add to the list!
Super nice line to the backside at 1:22 and 1:47!! Great connection and send!!Here is another be patient moment at 1:24 – hold your connection there on the send to the second backside until you see her make the turn to it, then you can slide away. You sent her but before she really saw the cue, you rolled your shoulders away and took off so she didnât take the backside.
When you ran a little slower and held your connection for longer – the backside send was so much better at 1:30 and 1:49Good job with all the teeter rewards, she is getting stronger and stronger with it, especially later in the session!
You can do the flip away at 2:13 but donât rush away, be patient đ more like what you did at 2:44
On the re-starts at 2:22 and 2:32 she would need a collection cue on the jump before the tunnel, she was looking at the weaves.
7/13 – very patient and connected! Great teeter! Loved it!
On the weaves, she started off really strong with the weaves – you can ask for it once then donât ask again, because she was popping after that. If she gets it the first time, reward but donât ask again đ
On the jump after the straight tunnel:
When you were handling from the landing side, you can try to be closer to the serp jump ar 3:44 and keep your shoulder open to try to turn her sooner. It is a really hard line on the landing side with all that speed!Then make a BIG connection to her eyes on the exit at 3:47 – you had your dog side arm out but that blocks connection: lock it behind you so you can make very direct eye contact there so she is sure of the line.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
>>I recently needed to add a new verbal (for tunnel threadle; my instructor didnât like my using in-tunnel or come-tunnel). In order to make a new word, I needed to list EVERYTHING Enzo hears which is supposed to be meaningful and then find a new sound. So here is the list, broken into categories. Btw, the new one I added was âFlyâ because I didnât think it sounded much like anything else.>>
I vote with your instructor on this – I like distinct verbals on the tunnel.
>>Are all these words âfluentâ? Heck no! But some of them are. đ>>
Some is better than none! We will just keep working to get fluency đ
>>ALSO, for my âmovingâ cue in the verbals games, can I use âsay itâ (his bark cue)? He doesnât have a lot of moving tricks and I donât want to use left/right in this context.>>
Agreed, I donât do the left/right here because it should be relative to a jump. Yes, you can use your say it cue. And also does he have a back up cue? That is a GREAT one for this because it is so opposite of what your motion is doing.
Really good list of verbals! You are going to curse me out, though… The cues that start the same way (like jump and jump-left) might get muddy. If jump means extension and jump left means a slightly collected left… that is really close and I think the processing of the left/right element might be late. Or you might end up with less extension because he waits to hear if your jump cue is followed by anything else. So in the interest of clarity and not needing to be perfect: I would make them more distinct by leaving jump as the extension cue (if it is somewhat fluent) and then taking it off of the left/right. Left, for example, would then mean: take the jump and turn left.
Same with the in-in-in and the in-switch: could get muddy or could cause him to wait to make a decision on it, especially now that those dang threadle wraps are getting REALLY popular.
I know some people want a different set of cues for dog walk exits and jump exits, but the dogs seem perfectly fine with left and right, for example, to be used on the jump and on the DW. How does your instructor feel about it?Tracy
Hi!
I raise the plank maybe 6 inches at first, then to a foot. And yes, she can jump off it for the cookie, we add the end behavior separately.Jordan teaches the RDW with a mat – she adds TONS of great foundation skills really make it easy and fun! Her class is finished for now here on AU but it might be happening over on the Clean Run site?
T
Good morning! Good topics to discuss here:
>>One thing to remember in skills training in particular, is to set a timer so that you get a 3 minute session total⌠then be finished for the day (or maybe try another 2 or 3 minutes several hours later, but still it keeps the total training time low)
>>Oh! 3 minute sessions several hours apart! So while there were a few times that I had her come back down and then right back up, there were a lot of breaks (hidden by the editing), some with 10-20 minutes between them. I thought that was sufficient enough of a break, but maybe not!A break of 10 minutes or so can be fine if it is the only thing on the training agenda, and it is the only other session of the day. Otherwise, a couple of hours is good, or only one session a day. I like for the dog to rest in between because that seems to help the behavior cement better, plus their energy is recharged. And also, the longer breaks gives me time to watch the video or think about things and make changes – I need to rest and recharge too haha!
>>I know that Ria would work until she falls over dead; maybe Iâm still not the best at reading when she is mentally or physically tired. >>
Correct – and she might not show many obvious signs either, until she literally cannot move anymore. Yes, some dogs do collapse. And one of my first agility dogs worked until all of her pads tore off and I didnât know until afterwards, when I saw some blood. Ouch! That was a big lesson learned. You can tell by the quickness of response, willingness to tug, alertness of body language, length of tongue… but some dogs so nothing obvious so the only thing to do is run a timer on your sessions all the time. For example, my BorderWhippet is definitely the type of dog who will play frisbee games and train with a frisbee until he would collapse. And you canât see it during the session – because I know that he heats up quickly, I limit frisbee throws to 5 only – and when his turn is done, he starts to breathe and only then do I see how hot he is – so it is really important to stop before you see it and the timer is the only way to know, or limit reps.
>>On that note, all four of these videos (Lazy Game, Back & Forth, Teeter, and Winginâ It) were done on the same day, after all of the classes at Wholistic Hound were over for the day. (Ria is crated during the classes and will have time to play, etc. between classes.) Is that too much? Are there any signs that I should particularly be looking for that she is telling me that sheâs done? These seemed lower energy and like she could go on for a bit yet, so I kind of just kept goingâŚ>>
This raises a good point: certain breeds (Border Collies are among them) and certain individuals might show no signs that they need to stop, until they are too mentally tired to continue. It is really hard to see mental tiredness – they make mistakes or donât tug as much. Physical tiredness is easier to see sometimes but not always. So…. a timer đ That will keep the sessions efficient and fun with time to cement the learning in between.
These particular 4 games can all be done on the same day, with plenty of time in between, as long as it is a couple of minutes on each such as 2 or 3 minutes (I use those times because that is generally the limit of a dogâs attention space and ability to work, from what we have tracked over the years). So that can be 8-12 minutes total in an air conditioned space (heat changes things dramatically)
>>you can try duct taping a spoon to the underside as the treat holder
So at 4:43, I tried thisâŚthe angle at which the spoon was attached, and Riaâs propensity to just knock the treats on the floor instead of being able to actually eat them kind of made this difficult. Iâll figure something out!>>Ah yes, I feel that pain – I used peanut butter a lot in the early stages of this game, because it stuck to the target đ â¨â¨
>>and a whole lot of food for her for the same day of training
>>I donât mind the food intake, though, because Ria has to earn or work for all of her food in some way throughout the day, has no set feeding schedule, and 98% of the time doesnât eat out of a bowl. What I was feeding was a complete and balanced food, so she just got more food during training than other times of the day. If she wasnât getting the food here, sheâd get it through other games, puzzle feeders, Kongs, etc. That doesnât mean that it wasnât too long, though.>>In terms of calories, it might total out to be a good daily caloric intake… but for using it as reinforcement, the volume diminishes its value. She will not be as hungry for it and that changes the impact the reinforcement brings to the table. A less-is-more approach is useful with food reinforcement: high value, big chunks will pack a wallop and speed learning more than extended sessions with normal food.
For example, I was working a specific skill on Sunday, using food. The skill was hard, so I used freeze dried turkey. One rep got a chunk that was the size of my thumb – I swear the dogâs eyes popped out of his head. He went WAIT WHAT? And each rep after that was driven and focused and also accurate. I stopped at about 6 reps – and will go back to it next week. But the value of the food made quite an impression on him so he really worked to sort out the behavior quickly because he wanted more more more đ
The ins-and-outs of all of this fall into the âmechanicsâ of dog training – how to use reinforcement and session structure to get us to our goals quickly and without overworking the dog. It is fun to discuss!
>>Your FCs back to the tunnel after the wings looked good â you were really emphasizing connection and that set the lines really well.
Phew! Thatâs good to hear! In the moment I was thinking, âWait, am I doing a front cross or is what Iâm doing a post turn, or is it something else altogether?â I just wasnât sure!Ha! You were great! The connection looked really strong and so she read the lines so nicely.
Tracy
Good morning! He looked really good here đ You can totally add more distance between the 2 jumps, to increase the level of challenge!
He is doing well with the GO cues. Good toy throws from you also really help! One suggestion: Keep accelerating on the go, even after you throw the toy – we donât want him to see deceleration paired with an extension cue (that will dilute turn cues later on) and also this way you wonât get into the habit of decelerating on long lines – drop your shoulders forward and run run run til he has landed đ
The wraps are looking good! Yes, I have separate verbals for left wraps and right wraps – it is easy enough to teach the dog and that way, I donât need the dog to know where I am in order to find the wrap back towards me or wrap away: he just needs to know where his left or his right is (which he does know a lot better than I know hahaha!!)
On the wrap handling: You can face forward longer as you decel, in terms of you feet. You were decelerating and turning your feet at almost the same time, which can cause pressure that looks like a rear cross. He really did well on the rear cross here, so we totally want the wrap to look different – decelerate facing the wrap wing, then just rotate and go đ I donât think he will need you to run into the takeoff spot or anything, he seems very responsive đ
Your RC pressure looked really good too – that is hard for young dogs but he nailed it. Super!!!!On the wing games:
Nice commitment! This what we want! Because he was so happy to let you do the one step sends behind you, time to add challenge: start further away, build up to maybe 10 feet and see if he will still do the backwards one step sending. And if he lets you do that? Start at that 10 foot distance and as soon as he starts to move towards the jump, you can start to move the either direction so you are moving away well before he even gets to the wing.
You were already rotating nice and early when you added the 2nd wing or did all 4. You can play with seeing how early you can be: decelerate as he exits the previous wing and then be rotating as he is passing you (and then before he is passing you, eventually). He is looking good so far, so I think this will be fun to build to!
And yes, he loved the speed circle LOL! Keep adding those in – it helps us maintain the ground speed and extension while working on all of the turn turn turn games đ
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! She did really well here! A couple of suggestions:
On the go, leading out more helped for sure. And throwing early also really helped. My only suggestion is that when you throw, keep running too so that she doesnât see deceleration paired with the extension as that would muddy the cue.On the wrap towards you: she is turning really well!! As you decel and see her committing , you can drop your dog side shoulder back into the front cross and rotate a little sooner – I think you were facing forward and doing a little post turn more than needed on that first one, pulling your dog side shoulder to the wing. You got better and better about leaving earlier on the other reps, so keep on trusting her commitment there.
Rear crosses – on that first rep, you were a little late pushing across to the RC line so she wrapped left – in that moment, you can throw the reward to the RC line to help her learn to override your motion when you are saying the verbal.
The next RC looked good, just the right amount of pressure on the line and early enough that she knew it was coming.For the backside, a little more lead out will help make it smoother for now: you got it with the extreme connection and outside arm, but you had to really push for it so ended up turning your feet. For now, giving yourself a little more of a head start will allow you to keep moving forward with your feet – and then as she learns more about the independent verbal, youâll be able to work it from further and further behind her.
>> Then we walked around the arena working on the Motion Override. This needs to be an everyday, in the house and outside exercise. I didnât feel like we progressed at all. As a matter of fact, I felt she was being a bit stubborn and forgot what sit means!>>
I donât think pups are stubborn, so if something isnât progressing or it appears as if they wonât do it, the answer is in the training. I look at timing, criteria, and reinforcement (type, placement, rate). My guess is that there is not enough reinforcement (rate or placement) for the sit while you are moving when you move faster (criteria) and in different places (also criteria). So try going back to multiple sessions where you move very slowly so she is highly successful and then you can gradually increase the challenge while keeping success Hugh.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
He did well on these videos! A couple of ideas for you to keep advancing the skills:On the first video, he did really nicely. A couple of things I notice :
He is watching your non-toy hand a lot, so be super careful that you donât move it when giving cues. Same with the toy. My favorite challenge for him was when the toy was dangling, you were walking, other hand motionless… perfect!Another thing here was that as arousal came up, he vocalized and leaped around a bit (similar to what happens on course, sometimes.). That is great! You can totally add more stimulation without moving but swinging your arms around the whole time (but feet stationary), then eventually add foot movement to it too. In other words… get wilder LOL! And you can add more speed to motion override too đ
On the 2nd video – I agree, the mats are too slippery to go any faster than you did here. He did well! On these reps, the cue matched the handling. So, next session (he will need turf or grass for this): go more of the wilder jumping around near the wing, flinging hands, etc… and give the cue without the handling. Start easy with arms swinging around and wrap cues… and if that goes well, you can add the more complex cues like backsides and switch. Then add more crazy motion (jumping jacks) and see if he can process the cue with all that excitement (and also process when to grab the toy and when not to grab it if it is moving too ;))
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHmm, the site is doing weird things with the CRCD maps. They are in the PDF (at the top of the page). I canât reload the photos til I get home on Monday đ
Hi! Darn cat! But it was a great opportunity to work acclimation! We canât control the environment but we can teach him to control his response. The pattern game snapped him out of the cat distraction and right into engagement: AWESOME!!!
On the sequence:
1-2-3 was fast and powerful.
At :52 and 1:22 you hung back and then sent to the wrap on 4 (getting really ahead to the tunnel). I am curious to see how the turn would differ if you drove up to 4 then decelerated ahead of him, then turned and sent to the tunnel. I thought his turns looked good (especially at 1:22) but it would be fun to see if getting up there right to the jump is faster.That would also change the next line – when he exited the 5 tunnel, he didnât really drive past you to 6-7 in full extension. If you got close to 4 and sent to 5, then ran ahead to 6-7, I think he would chase you with more speed up that line (youâll still get the blind after it :))
Blind at :59 was actually a little early but he read it really well! Hooray for good commitment! I thought it was perfect at 1:31.
So if you get a chance to run it again, try those 2 spots differently then we can compare what is faster!
Great job here, especially with the cat!!
TracyHi! Great list! And yes, writing it down does make us have to really think!
A couple of ideas:
>> I do not have a backside wrap around the wing I have just been using body and feet position and motion for this. I may add round later I thought about push dig dig and push check check. 2 cues I am not sure I like the idea but having a lot of verbals is a bit overwhelming as well.>>
I used to have 2 cues (push then the directional) and Voodoo told me it was late late late. So I went to one cue (dig) and he gets the info a lot sooner.
>>Weaves: Weave repeated until performance is completed.
Be sure he can do it when yoU are quiet too, so you have time to breathe LOL!
>>Tunnel: Tunnel tunnel with physical turn cues coming as dog is entering and verbal when dog is inside tunnel.
I suggest doing the verbal cue and the physical cue when the dog is still 3 to 6 feet before the tunnel. They need to see and hear it all before they are in the tunnel, otherwise they canât process it til they are out of the tunnel.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thanks for the update đ>> The judge used alot of wingless single bar jumps turning to obstacles and off obstacles with angles. Mookie only knocked one bar in each of his 3 standard runs. I am trying to figure out if it was from my late verbal cues to turn or my connection or both.>>
Both? Or getting acclimated to the footing? Or wingless jumps are harder to see? Or a little out of condition because of Covid? Or all of the above đ If you have them on video, freeze the moment he takes off for the jumps where he hit the bar – and see what you are doing in that moment.
>>Should I practice with wingless single bar jumps weekely thrown in here and there??>>
Yes, based on what youâve experienced in training and at the trial, the boys will need to see more wingless jumps because they are getting popular again.
>I know I should add to Mookieâs book of rules that I should give extra connection to wingless single bar jumps >
YES! A good reminder!!
>>Should I practice his zig zag grid with wingless jumps??
Yes, good idea, as long as you have 5 foot bars and he has enough room.
>>On a happy note I did 2 blindcrosses one out of a tunnel and one out of a tunnel by a jump and was successful for our second Q in Masters Jumpers.>>
YAY! Congrats!!!!!
>>This was only our third trial back since COVID and 7th day total trialing for this year so far.
It will take time for me to get back in the grove that Mookie never left >>
>>I need to work on my timing of verbal cues and connection as he speeds by.>>Yes, it is going to take us all a while to get back to being comfortable!
>>As for Buddy if I stay super connected he does whatever I ask and does not knock bars.
He is too thoughtful to knock a bar and reads blindcrosses and backsides nicely.
Buddy did great with all 3 sequences.>>Yay for Buddy! Sounds like he is doing really well!
>>He is environmentally challenged and I worked hard at the trial to acclimate him to the environment with your games. He did struggle as he is very afraid of men but tolerated them in his environment with at least one eye on them at all times.>>
Keep working the transition to trials games, all of them – they will come together to help him out đ
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> We havent been doing weaves for very long and I am not convinced she understands them yet in spite of her successes. I want her to be tackling 4 poles with more conviction before I advance too much.>>
True, it takes a while to cement the understanding for the poles.
>> These days we can tug and chase the toy around equipment. BUt He was shuting down. When further away he plays these games happily but as soon as he thinks agility might be involved he shuts down. Very fine line between where he is happy playing and how close can get.>>I think it is important to be able to play and interact around the equipment, but maybe those particular games had too much pressure? Maybe try simpler things like asking him to put his chin in your hand for a cookie, etc – things that can help the arousal level around obstacles.
Also, the reinforcement might need to be different – do you cue him to take off for a run as well? I believe the freedom to interact with the environment and run around is very reinforcing for him!
>> Then attempt to do the courses but I kept losing track and sending him the wrong way â common theme I think I got lost multiple times with all my dogs.
Aha! Do you walk the courses several times before you run them? Getting lost is frustrating to the dogs.
On the sequence:
Keep moving at 4 for the send, you were standing still at 2:00 And 2:22. Being entirely stationary is a big collection cue so you donât want to send him straight past you in extension. More closer to the tunnel #3 so you can be moving when he exits it.
>> I had issues with him getting angry on the dig but worked oout he was happier when I was further away from the jump â so need to remember this and work on getting closer.
Is the dig the wrap? (Hard to hear). I donât think it was position near the jump, but I think it was clarity of cue.
He got mad at 2:05 – as he exited the tunnel, you were A bit sideways, stationary, a bit far from the jump and pointing forward so he didnât know what to do. He offered a backside after that, which is rewardable because you were indicating with your outside arm so it turned your shoulders/feet to the backside line. You looked a little clearer at 2:27 (closer and more connected) but he went to the middle jump – I am not sure if you wanted him to turn tight there? The cues look the same so it might be a bit confusing for him (yes, the verbals might be different, but motion will help support and clarify that for him).
Sequence 2 – you were clearer on the wrap at 4 (Closer and more connected) but keep moving – turns lose clarity if extension is also cued when you stand still. So on the lines where you want him to run in extension, move in and out of them rather than send with an arm. For the tighter turns, you can use deceleration or standing still to help cue those – I think that will really help him see the difference.
Keep moving up the closing line on both sequences – you were not really moving so he was not sure if he should turn or not, so he pulled a rail on both ending lines.
>> Fusion â introduced her to an increased height on sequences for the first time and saw an increase in her arousal level although highly distracted by something on the ground. Reminding me that key emphasis is working on her focus â can just imagine her having a party at nationals with six rings close together and just ropes separatingâŚ.
The sniffing distraction could be a response to the added difficulty and stress of it – so you can gradually introduce more height: rather than all jumps getting taller, just raise the height of one jump on an easy line. Then a week later, raise another… and so on. When is Nationals? She is a bit young to have 2021 Nationals as a goal because so many pieces need to be both trained AND rehearsed in trials before then.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! The course is in the image is more of a tunnel threadle than bypass. Bypass is âtake nothing til otherwise toldâ (bleh, my dogs hate them lol!) so if I used the bypass at the jump before the tunnel then my dogs would theoretically go to the left lead and chase my line, taking the tunnel out of the picture entirely. The tunnel threadle cue is more accurate for them – that first tunnel entry isnât exactly on their line (it would be a âget outâ cue if I wanted it) but it is visible enough that my threadle cue should tell them to go directly to the other side of the tunnel. It is a grey area for sure but because they would have to change leads and turn away to find it, the tunnel threadle fits it best (a regular âtunneâ cue does not have a lead change like that).
Hope that makes sense, I am coffee deprived hahaT
