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Hi!
This was a really clever way to set up a ‘ring experience’ at home! There are a lot of really good elements to the ritual! We will be working more specifically on that in coming weeks – an idea for you for now: as you are getting him ready, you can start with the food rewards in your hands so he gets rewarded for the tricks, and then as you transition into the ring you can let him see you place the reward in the reward spot, then head into the ring. He has all sorts of good tricks and that will really help!
>>Will take you up on your suggestion to practice at the Regional. Had a feeling that you were familiar with the location. So getting down to brass tacks, I began to think about what we are going to do there.>>
Looking at the Regional as a training opportunity, 2 ideas:
– when you first get into the ring area each time, start with the acclimation game with the cookie tosses each time – and see what he does. You can start it pretty far from the ring at first, then gradually build up to being closer and also to doing it when dogs are running (you can be far from the ring when this is happening).
– when he looks pretty acclimated and is very quick to offer engagement, play around with different tricks. Have rewards in your hand for now, and keep track of which cues he responds to immediately, which ones he is less quick to respond to, and which ones he doesn’t respond to (or needs to hear/see a re-cue). And also track how he responds: excited, engaged? Or doing the thing but not quite as quick? And one more thing to note: his body language: how engaged/aroused is he? We are going to start tracking the behaviors that get him into the optimal arousal state so we can use them when we take those behaviors into the ring!So the Regionals adventure is really just a fact-finding mission 🙂 Same with the visit to Kim’s!
Let me know if that makes sense and let me know how it goes 🙂
TracyHowdy!
For your viewing pleasure, here is the elevator game progression:Good morning!
I feel the pain of the camera getting too hot! We do our training as close to sunrise as we can get now. So hot!!!!
>>I need to work on the teeter video, it will be like a blooper video. I will just say after I tried a number of things, I pulled the chair away and just did a teeter (not on the video), she looked great.>>
Blooper videos are fine 🙂 What was she doing? She is a little young to be doing full teeters because of the impact of the slam, so we can sort out the games without any of the impact.
The Lazy Game is looking good! I think she is slightly stronger on your right side here tan on your left side. If she doesn’t commit, keep moving rather than stop then restart – she is a smartie and will quickly figure out the NOT taking the jump gets no reward, but finding the jump gets the party 🙂 Yes, there was a throw where she was looking at you but the others were better about happening when she was looking forward. And she was a good girl about bringing the toy back! YAY!!! At least once. Haha!!
You can take the lazy game setup now and add the sequences into it.Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHowdy!
>>SOOOO, any ideas about sending and getting her to go into a basically “blind” tunnel would be lovely. I know this is very off-topic for this summer camp,
Nothing is off limits for summer camp!!
Not every dog loves the tunnel. Something I have done is hidden the toy or reward or MM inside the tunnel 🙂 I might have video of it somewhere… at first the toy was visible inside the tunnel just past the entry. Then it was halfway through, then further and further through til eventually it ended up on the exit. The tunnel was short and straight at first and I did all sorts of handling. Then the tunnel become curved – with the reward going just inside the entry. Basically, we are shaping the tunnel in successive approximations and using placement of reinforcement to help. When she totally adores the tunnels, you can add the early exit cues and reward those too!
let me know if that makes sense 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>lazy game is hard for us! Must. Be. Running.
TOTALLY relatable! I was like that until my dogs required me to be perfect… and then I was all like “OK dog, you need to commit no matter what” – the lazy game fixed it and now I can be happily imperfect and they will still commit. Which means I can run more LOL!
Good job on the lazy game here – feels weird to be so calm and lazy, right? LOL! You did a great job of forcing yourself to be chill hahaha!!! The outer jumps were easy, it was the center jump that was harder for sure! Mo had a lightbulb moment at about 1:04 when he took that middle jump. You were a bit closer to it there too, which helped – you can totally stick closer to the line until Mo is whizzing around while you are being lazy. And then you can add more distance! You will see when Mo is ready for more, it will be nearly impossible to convince him to NOT take the jumps. Then you can move into the sending and running away as well as the handling sequences.
Great job here!
TracyHi! Thanks for the raw footage here! I think what you are seeing speaks to both what is actually reinforcing for him and how that plays into the rate of success. Here is what I mean:
Starting on the send to the wing into the distraction area is very hard, so just isolate it rather than risk failure right at the start. Think of it as a bank account – that failure on the first rep puts you into a deficit that is hard to recover from. Get closer and reward it specifically a few times (pump up the account balance!) before trying to send and run. Then when he got it right at :30… reward 🙂 That is a really difficult spot!
On the other parts – he is DEFINITELY a ‘just the facts ma’am’ type of dog – stopping for conversation even if you offer reward is not cool with him, and then when you were touching him and moving the reward towards him – not reinforcing. So, I think he has paired the stops & conversation with being wrong so based on his response – he perceives it as a negative punishment which reduces the reinforcement account balance. For example, at :40 when you messed up, you got into a conversation about it… and he turned off. Same thing happened at 1:25 on the backlap – then you moved towards him to engage which is not his preferred style of reinforcement (a lot of pressure and not enough prey drive) And also, reward at 2:00 for the pass even if was not the wing you wanted – he was correct so reward really fast as if it was exactly what you wanted.
>> I did try to convince him he was right there but he was skeptical. He didn’t want to take the toy. He didn’t want physical affection (he’s not a huge fan of that when we are working but he is my dog child and tolerates it) >>
Yes, because he knew that it wasn’t right (doesn’t matter whose fault it is) and stopping/ discussion is not part of the reinforcement. So try to just keep going as if it was entirely correct (don’t stop when something goes ‘wrong’, just cue the next thing and run), don’t mark errors with apologies (even if it is your error :)) and throw the rewards in when things are going right! You might have to do some acting because you know it was not correct – but to keep the reinforcement rate high and keep him engaged, acting like it was totally perfect was great! Then you can change up the handling the next time through.
>>he did offer a jump so I kept working and he seemed happy.
yes – he wanted action and not stopping/discussion/ hugs LOL!! That is a really important piece for him, and gives u insight into what is actually reinforcement to him (action, cues) and what he might perceive as not reinforcing/punishment: stopping, conversation (which sounds totally different than cues), toys moving towards him, etc.
Let me know what you think! I love that we can figure out how he ticks, that will make it easier for train and handle!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Much better attempt here.
Totally yes! You had better rewards overall and lots of great energy on the rewards too – he liked that 🙂 And for the handling, you were very connected and that produced a ton of lovely lines!!
>>We did have to fight a little bit of a distraction with the pool guy in the yard. Like WHO SAID HE COULD BE AT FEVERS POOL WHILE WE WERE TRAINING AND WHY AREN’T WE MORE CONCERNED?
Ha! “GET OUT OF MY POOL, MISTER!” lol
>>For comic relief I left the 2Ă—2 WIDE OPEN and you can see him smoke me every time. He is sending to them beautifully and independently and had zero failures.
That was great!!! Very affirming for him 🙂 For the weaves (and frame and DW) you can have more rewards the end of the obstacle and not form your hands. Those 3 are obstacles that we want him to be looking at the end of, so the more you reward out at the end, the better. That can be a placed toy or throw toy or manners minder – anything that is not in your hand 🙂
>>His DW does not look great here. He is most successful when we constantly work it. Unfortunately while I’m trying to train all of the things, it’s not been consistently worked in about a month. His middle plank striding here is what’s causing him to not hit. He usually is more extended. I suspect it will be just as beautiful when I go back to working it regularly.>>
Totally relatable, it is so hard to train all the things, all the time. Feel free to use your training props when you are working the contacts in a course – for example, I use a mat and a MM and a flyball jump for the RDW and I leave them out there with the youngsters if I am sequencing the DW.
He was having a little trouble on the down of the a-frame, but I think that was the approach: give a better line up to the frame, he is having to scramble and get on sideways and that is changing the down ramp behavior. You can angle the frame towards the entry line so it is a sweeter entry and then the down will be better too.
A few thoughts on the handling stuff:
At the beginning, he had some trouble finding the wing with distractions. Pool? Or stuff? Either way – it is a great training moment for wing wraps! And even if he was not perfect, reward him before a small bit of it – he needs more reward in those moments or he tends to check out.
Good connection on the line to the weaves and also good energy on the rewards!!! And also really nice line after the weaves! And he liked the reward – get in there and engage after you throw it to keep that energy high.
The pass on the next rep was out of view of the video so I couldn’t see why he went around the tire – but he might’ve needed more of a turn cue – it was correct to continue there and carry on, so he could get rewarded. Yay!
Really good line at approx 2:00 and good rewarding! He likes the pass on the wing, he can be fast and accurate! Nice connection from you on that entire section. Be careful about leaving the toy on the ground in his path though, that might be an unnecessary distraction 🙂
Also if you say the wrong verbal, just fix it and keep going, no more apologizing because it delays the next info. He subscribes to the “just the facts, ma’am” mode of thinking on course, he is not a conversationalist or apologist LOL!
A little oopsie getting up the line after the a-frame at 2:25, you just pulled away too early. And super nice line at the very end!!! That is a good spot to have a mat or reward target for the DW – so you don’t end up rewarding a big leap or withholding reward or rewarding from you hand. My RDW props line in my car now, so I can always whip them out for any available dog walk action.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
You can find all of the seminar games here:
https://agility-u.com/course/au-032-maxpup-foundations-putting-it-together/
by clicking on the Live Seminar 1: Concept Transfers (Saturday, July 3) link. That will drop down both the zoom link if you want to see the live class, as well as all the various games if you just want to get right to work 🙂Let me know if you have any trouble seeing it!
Tracy
Hi!
He was able to offer some good behavior here with more arousal! You can be moving a little more now too. It was interesting that the line up cue is the default before, it seems – keeping your feet together so he can’t offer it will be helpful because we don’t want that offered while you are moving plus we want him to process the verbals.This is something we can discuss:
“” He was doing okay but not really taking it as a reward like I would like. I then did some just close work for food and that was great. Looking back, I should have just switched to food.””
I thought he was happy with the frisbee throws… so if that is what is reinforcement to him, then we go with it. Food is not incredibly reinforcing for him – and he was chasing the frisbee so you can work that in. I think overall, working out the reinforcement is the key – and doing it in one or two rep sessions is the way to go. If you do a couple of minutes in a row, you might end up changing things before you find out what works, and then lose him because he doesn’t understand what you want because it keeps changing. And one or two rep sessions (then he can go into the house or pool or something) will give you time to decide what you liked about what just happened and what you want to do on the next rep – that way you won’t ask for too much then have to recover.
Being predictable will help him too, so fewer changes in the moment will make for smoother sessions. And he was doing well when you added motion – just be sure you stay in smooooooth steady motion and don’t lean in or slow down when you cue the down.
>>I don’t have a ton of marker cues. Get it means the toy is available for reinforcement. Search (as used in my other video) means foods on the ground and you can get it. Scatter is food is placed calmly on the floor for you to get. I tried a face cue when he was a baby for toy is being thrown to you to catch but he was awful at catching.>>
I don’t think we need a ton of markers, just a handful of clear ones.
Ah, so search and scatter are different – you can also clarify for him how many cookies to look for on each – scatter is multiple, for example, and search is on.
And the face cue can be “reward being tossed back to you” but he doesn’t have to catch it 🙂 I have a catch cue and only one of my dogs actually catches it – but they all understand that it is coming back to them, based on how they stand still and look up and behind them LOL!>>I should likely add more for clarity but I really struggle with my words sometimes(using them/saying the correct ones).
This is something we can improve with planning! Plan plan plank out the wazooooo then do once or twice with the dog 🙂 That goes for marker cues and verbal directionals – so before you play motion override, for example, plan how you are going to move, what behavior you will cue, and which marker you will use, which reward, where it will go… and so on. And it is perfectly fine to give yourself a walk through of the mechanics without the dog. If you rehearse it and then bring Fever into it – you’ll nail it!
>>On a spectrum of importance, would it be better to use clearer words but late versus use a word that means reinforcement(but maybe not as clear as to what the reinforcement is)available promptly? This question could keep me up all night debating internally.>>
C) none of the above.
LOL!
The answer is planning and rehearsal without the dog so the sessions with the dog are amazeballs. This is what will make the difference. Think about what you want to do… plan it, plan plan plan rehearse rehearse rehearse maybe even try it with Callie they way you want to do it with Voodoo… and when you have it where you want it: Fever comes in.It might seem like it takes longer but it will actually be the fastest way to train and everything will speed up. The key is planning and rehearsal of the session and the mechanics so the actual session with the dog is as perfect as you can get it. Sure, the environment can throw in a wrench like fireworks, but you can respond to that and then go back into your plan. And, as sometimes happens, you find out in the rehearsal or training that the plan is not a good plan – no problem, back to rehearsal and figure out what to change up.
So the actual hands on training will be short but incredibly effective and precise because you’ve rehearsed so much of it without the dog. The markers and verbals will feel like second nature!
Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
I think that sometimes just the presence of a difficult obstacle like the weaves can produce the stress response… so we can reduce it in advance of the training by playing simple games like this 🙂
T
Yes, we don’t want to add too much excitement til he is cleared, that is true! You can keep things calm and just add more distractions in the environment.
And I am all for making it easier to train the verbals and not needing separate cues for jumps or the DW.
T
Good morning! He did well here! One question:
what does search mean, exactly? Is it s scatter or only one cookie? I ask because lots of people use it for multiple treats, which might be why he was sniffing around a bit longer. But iif it only means one treat – perfect! For me, my get it cue means “there is only one thing out there, not 57” LOL! That specifics help fine tune the behavior.>>Only question I really have here is that you will notice towards the end that at there are a few times where he doesn’t pick up the cookie from the ground. I’d like to your thoughts on this. This can be an issue with thrown food. I joke sometimes that it’s tainted because he just doesn’t want it. He did take it here when I picked it up and gave it to him but that isn’t always the case. I’m not certain if this falls under the border collies are weird, magical creatures with autism thing or something else.
He will refuse food when over threashold but I do not think that’s what’s happening here.>>Both reasons for food refusal is that it is simply not all that reinforcing for him. You know how some dogs don’t find toys or tugging all that interesting? He doesn’t find food rewards all that interesting, especially when there is no action and also if he is over threshold for some reason. It is actually pretty common with many dogs and I have seen this about a zillion times in Border Collies and Border Collies mixed with whippets, Papillons or other herding breeds. (The BC/terrier crosses eat like pigs, thanks to the terrier genes haha) So – you need to raise the value of the food reinforcement. Changing the timing of your training with food to just before a mealtime will help. And, pairing the food with something that actually *is* reinforcing will bring up the value – I have had to raise food value for Voodoo, Contraband and Elektra and the key was pairing it with something they really liked: for example, in this game, I would toss the treat for Contraband (criteria: swallow) and then when he looked at me and had swallowed it: frisbee! Wheeeeee! He eats food just about anywhere, anytime, anyhow now. Voodoo had treats followed by tug toys.
So raising the value of food will help – you can have him eat the tossed treat, then you can toss a toy as part of developing the pattern. Or, you can toss the treat and when he eats it (swallows it!) you can take off and run (action!) then toss another one.
>>I don’t have any trials in the next two weeks to work him in a trial environment and there’s no training places that I can go to so I might try this at Carrie’s with Roulez screaming for the next level and then a park>>
I think Carrie’s place or a park is a perfect next step! Keep me posted! Nice work here 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>> We’ve had alternating days of cool monsoons, and then horrid humidity and heat, so I did a few runs early in the day on 2 different days.
I totally feel this! I have been doing the 6am sunrise trainings but it has been perfect weather at that time of day, so….. LOL!
Great job with both dogs here! And great job running in the heat – it has been a HOT summer!!
Run 1 – the opening line is looking good, my only suggestion is that you throw in a directional up that first line – you said ‘over over tunnel’ but a name call will help her turn to face he tunnel you want, then call her right before she goes into the tunnel. She hesitated a little on the exit to find you because the call was a little late.
Great job on the line after the tunnel to the weaves!
Happy dance at how you kept moving at :24 so she found the correct line with no bonus tire adventures! Yay! Just remember to call before she goes into the tunnel not on the exit – she was a little wide because the call was late.
When you have more weave independence you can easily get up the closing line for a FC or BC rather than the RC on the jump before the tunnel. The weave independence will come with time and I can already see how much more independent she is! The RC worked nicely and is a hard skill!
The other option there is to drive ahead of her as she is weaving so that you can do the cross on the entry of the tunnel (rather than the exit) which should also take out the tire and get you further ahead for the ending line.Run 2 – Yuki is SO FUN! I am glad she is feeling great!
With her experience, you can try being further across the 2-3 line so you can show her the blind (and call her) before she enters the #4 tunnel and also be in a better position. She was a little wide exiting the tunnel at :40 because the call was late (both of your girls are honest about this :))She also had a nice line from the 5 jump to the weaves! And she also says that as long as you are moving, you don’t have to demand her attention on the line after the tunnel (Keiko says this too) – at :49, you were moving and then said her name and dropped your hand in – it caused her to look right at you and away from the line (she was looking at the correct line. So you can call but you don’t need the hand cue for her, and I bet you can just give her the ‘over’ cue.
She got so mad at :55 on the turn cue before the last tunnel – she has opinions LOL!! It was just a little late – try to give that turn cue before she takes off so she can set up the turn – you showed the cue as she was already jumping so she was center of the bar, turning left – that is why she grumbled and dropped the bar and she continued to discuss it LOL!! I don’t think you were too far behind, I think the turn cue was a little late – probably a product of being a little rusty with her timing because of all the time off for rehab.
Run #3: Keiko was on fire here! Even though it was hot and humid, she was flying, I loved it!
She was fast on the opening line, so a little name call will tighten the turn 3-4 before the tunnel cue, then a name call before she enters the tunnel (she is very responsive so I don’t think she needs more than a little name call). She slowed down a little on the tunnel exit at 4 because you were decelerated – so you can get closer to the #4 tunnel to show more movement towards 5 when she exits (Yuki would like that too). And you can get closer to 4 by sending her to the #1 tunnel from further away so you don’t have to do too much sprinting the summer humidity 🙂I loved the line from 5 to the weaves (you trusted her, she was perfect) and then after the weaves you cued the tunnel and left – PERFECT! At 1:20 note how she is both very fast and looking at exactly the correct line. And you are further ahead, which is always helpful!
At 1:25 your motion pushed her around the jump before the tunnel because you had a lot of extension and then your body was facing the backside line – add a little deceleration on the 2nd to last jump, then move to the center of the bar of the RC jump and you will have nailed it.
She was a little more sapped of energy in the last run (understandable, it was hotter than the surface of the sun!) but she still did really well! She was terrific with her weaves on all of these runs! Being a little hotter gave you the opportunity to get up the ending line and then you gave her more deceleration to set up the rear cross – nailed it! She is young and still learning that move, so she will continue to get faster and faster as you work it.Great job on these! I think the one big thing to add for both dogs is more information before they enter the tunnels so they know exactly where to be when they exit.
Let me know what you think!
Stay cool 🙂
TracyGood morning! Great stuff here, even in slo mo haha
On your first video –
First video – remember to use your words right from the very beginning. You were quiet for the first part and then started the verbals at :26 so be consistent and use the verbals to get the game rolling. She was super quick to return her focus up to you and away from the distractions. Good girl! How does she do when there are other dogs moving? Or what are the big distractions for her? We can take this game up a notch pretty easily 🙂
I tried to speed up the verbal skills video but it is still in slow motion – it was watchable for the physical cues but I couldn’t make out the verbals – I will just assume that the cues and markers were perfect, based on her great responses. She was terrific! It looks like the sits and down went really well and you stayed in motion. She was really engaging her hind end which makes me so happy! Nice! The backing up was GREAT because it is just so out of context and opposite of what she would expect there – she definitely had to process it but she did, good girl! Love that!
I also notice she was quiet here… and she is, um, talkative on course. The barking can be a sign of higher arousal, so I think we need to get her talking here a bit to really get things transferred to the course work. Do I remember that you have barking on cue? If so… get it going and then play this game 🙂 Or you can stimulate the barking by running her through the tunnel a few times LOL! I think the barking takes priority over adding more motion – but if adding more motion gets the barking – cool beans! I don’t mind barking on course as long as the dog is still able to process the physical and verbal cues.Sequence #1:
This was also in slow motion even when I sped it up – so the action was good to see but I can’t tell you about the verbals (so, in general, remember to use them early and often haha!)
The opening line looked good. She was looking at you a little over 4 at 1:01 and then started yelling at you – I think it was the style of the cue not being clear enough. You were turning forward to indicate the send jump and your body was continuing to travel in a curve. I would be interested to see what she think is you did it more as a one-step send and go: looking at her with your arm softer and a bit step to the takeoff spot, then your next step is towards the tunnel.The 8-9 soft turn looked good – she was barking, yes, but that was a carry over from 4-5 and she was not barking and looking at you. Her line looked good – when you revisit it, you can add a little more decel and lateral send to see if it tightens the line up… and, then we compare if tighter is faster. She is right on the edge – medium-sized dogs *might* be faster when they are tighter, or might be faster when they are wider. The only way to know is to time it.
Same thing with the wrap at 11 at 2:19: the cross arm cue to the jump doesn’t allow you to rotate away as early, so the turn is a little wider. I am curious to see what the time differential would be if you rotated more and used your right arm (closer to the jump) instead of the cross arm to indicate it – that can tighten the turn and also speed up the next line because you can leave sooner (because you are fully rotated).
So when you are able to get back to these, feel free to run it again just like you did here – then try to tight things a little – and we will find out what is best for her. She knew where she was going almost every second here (I think the more connected send 4-5 would make it perfect) so it is a matter of how much or how little collection produces the best line.Great job here! Have a blast at the SOTC trial!
TracyHi!
I think he did well here on the first video with the food! One idea is to have several treats in your hand so you don’t have to reach for your pocket – he was watching your hand in your pocket on this video and on the next one too 🙂
>> should have moved away I am great at hindsight.
yes – that is what I noticed too. At :16 when you added the toy on the ground, you moved him directly towards it. So distance there and then with the agility obstacles will be very useful! You can remind yourself to start further away by placing a cone or chair 3 or 4 meters from the distraction as your training location (which will also be a good reminder for starting with a big distance at trials too).
On the verbals video – you are helping too much LOL!! You were moving briskly then when you cued the sit or down, you changed your motion and had your hand in your pocket. I think he was cuing off of the change in motion – so he did get the sit or down, but it won’t transfer as nicely to verbals on course when you will not want to change your motion or reach for cookies. So, start off walking so slowly that you are barely moving – and cue the behavior, but don’t change your motion. And with the backing up, don’t lean towards him (that will be very challenging for him!) You can have cookies in your hand for quick delivery but don’t have your hand in your pocket (dogs see all of this and will cue off of it).
When he can respond to the cues while you are in steady motion the whole time, you can add more motion (but not decelerating or stopping :))When you added the wing, take a different approach: rather than add sits and downs near the wing, add a bit of motion from you like jogging in place or flinging your arms around – and then cue the wing with just the verbal cue. And reward for going around the wing or through the tunnel if that is what you cued. That will help to enhance his commitment and response to directionals when you are running on course, or in the times when your arms get high.
Nice work here!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
