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Hi!
This is going well! He was driving across the board with confidence on the full teeter. Yay! I think the last piece of the puzzle is getting him to look at you less and down/ahead a little more. At this stage, it is all about adjusting the placement of reinforcement to get and maintain the head position. We used the toss backs to get him to understand he needed to stay in position and that is going well! And I think he is now anticipating that and raising his head position, so we can now encourage the lowered head/looking forward using the MM (or any reward out ahead for him to focus on). You can work the understanding on his training plank – with the very narrow target, have him leap into position and then you can release and reward with the MM (no more rewards in position or from your hand, for now). And I recommend the little plank because it will be easier to do lots of reps without any concussion on his body. And after a session or two of that, you can take it to the bang game and elevator games. Then… back to the full teeter.You can also put the teeter (crazy elevator game and the full teeter) into little sequences to add more speed and begin transferring the understanding to other scenarios.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! She did really well here!
After the full teeter, she was happy to come back and do more and that is GREAT! If she was really concerned, we would see a reaction from her when asked to do the full teeter. I am super glad she was happy to come back for more!
On the full teeter, she drove across it well and I think she is still sorting out how to shift her weight back and where to do it. The PB target helped because she had a focal point and then a big jackpot upon arrival 🙂 The weight shift at the end is happening in other games, so I am confident that she will sort it out with more experience.
With that in mind, I suggest just continuing to add in more full teeter reps, with the target visible, into the various games and also into sequences here and there (mixed in with elevator games and massively valuable rewards). And you can get her more stimulated with toys and food so she drives even faster across the board 🙂 Separately, you can be fading the target out of the 2o2o position on a plank because pretty soon we can fade it out from the teeter too 🙂Great job here!!!
TracyHi!
>> But off my left when I got to a full 12 he skips a pole in the middle, always on my side and I think always in the same place….pole 5? or maybe 7? And then he re-enters and finishes all of them. I know it’s hard to “analyze” with video but I wanted to throw it out to you in case it’s something you’ve seen before.
It sounds like he is having a little bit of trouble holding onto the rhythm and balance while also going fast – it is one of the 2 things that we run into at this stage (the other thing is when the dogs pop out at 10 on our left side because they are looking at us and anticipating the reward).
Something you can try is to have the entry and exit of the poles closed/straight, but have the middle (poles 5-6-7-8) a little tiny bit open so they are easier. An inch might help, or even less! And then he can recover his balance and finish strong. And then you can close those slightly open poles one at a time, while he learns to hold his balance and striding. And that way you don’t need to dial back your speed 🙂
Usually when it is on one side, it is a reinforcement anticipation issue – he is trying to watch you and has to move away on the left side So one other thing to try is rather than reward straight, you can give him extra reason to NOT look at you by throwing the reward to the other side of the poles (to the 4 or 5 o’clock side). You can see me doing some of that with Contraband who was totally wanted to look at me.
>> I think I just expected both sides to “go at the same pace” and for whatever reason that isn’t the case.>>
I agree that logically it makes sense… but reality is that we all experience the 2 sides moving along at different rates 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! Have fun!
TracyHi! She did really well here!
I think the first couple of rewards after pole 6 were good to do, even if they interrupted her flow a little 🙂 That 2nd set was a little bit of a visual distraction so she was having a little struggle with her striding. But then by the 3rd rep she was more comfy and did fine doing all 12. And it was a nice short session!
>> More of the same, just 6 & 6, or should I start closing the gap?>>
I believe you can move forward: start the next session with a rep of the poles exactly like this, then on each rep move them a little closer. If at any point she has a question, stop moving them closer and work through the question (if she fails twice, you can spread them out again). However, knowing Keiko, it is entirely possible that she might be able to do 12 straight poles in that next session. We only have about 5 or 6 passes through the poles in that one session (whether they are 6 and 6 or all 12) so if you don’t get them totally to 12 straight in that one session because it is too many reps, that is fine – the following session is when they can be straight 🙂
Great job here! I am looking forward to seeing what she does when the poles get closer!
TracyHi!
This went REALLY well! You handled it beautifully, and Ruby said “Got it!” Look how fast she went on the last rep, holy cow LOL!! Nothing to change or tweak here… just add speed. LOL! You can stretch out the wings so she is going faster. And you can also add in race tracks where she runs the outside of the wings – then challenge her to pay attention when you call her and shift into the tandem turns (and it challenges you to show them properly, just like you did here :))
And of course you can make up little sequences with the front crosses, lap turns, tandem turns and race tracks all in one! When you foot is feeling up to it, you can also do the Starfish game which has these turns (but needs a lot of handler motion).>>Oh, I have a question. You did you say puts on a good Running contact class? Jordan Biggs? Can’t remember. I have all my notes and video’s from when I did it with Dawn Weaver with Jedi. And I’m sure I could train Ruby with that. But sometimes it is nice to have eye’s watching as you go along.>>
Yes, Jordan Biggs. The class she was doing here on AU just finished up, but I think she might also be offering it over on the Clean Run Learning Center?
Great job here!!!
TracyHello, welcome back!
I think this went well – the warm up looked good. The target placement was rally good (he was adding in the scratching at it too!) One thing on these is to get the cookie hand out from above his head as the board is dropping – feed the cookie for arriving at the top of the board then get the visual of the hand out of there, so he doesn’t look up at it while you drop the board 🙂
One other thing you can do, and this will likely help the full teeter as well, is have the MM out front of the board, 2 metres away or more – so he arrives in his end position with the target, then either gets rewarded in position or you can release to the MM. Since this is a ‘new’ concept to him, introduce it with a low bang game or a little bit of elevator game (also low) so it is not a surprise or too tempting 🙂 As soon as he understands the parameters of “go to the end position and wait til the release” he will use the MM as a focal point rather than watch you.
So that way, in the crazy elevator game from the tunnel, he will watch your hand less as he drives up the board. On the 3 reps, he was good with driving across the board on reps 1 and 3 – I think he was watching your hand a little and also reading your deceleration. So don’t send as much to the tunnel (it causes you to stand still next to the teeter more than he needs), so you can be running more when he exit the tunnel. That will help accelerate him across the board – then you can reach out and grab it for the elevator game, then present the reward. So there will be a lot more motion and action.
And since he looks pretty darned happy here – throw in a regular full teeter here (and jackpot it even if it is not perfect). Getting more full teeters going and more motion will keep him driving to the end more. As for the 2nd rep where he stopped in the middle? That was odd – and he didn’t repeat it. It was almost like he saw something and stopped to look at it. It was an anomaly, so we won’t worry about it unless he does it again.
So you can do 2 things now: introduce the MM or some sort of reward target out front, and (separately) add in more motion on the crazy elevator game and some full teeters 🙂
Nice work! Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
This is a good one to work on, it is important for the adult dogs too!>> I had a lot of trouble mostly with Ruse waiting in position. The video was really long so I had to cut out some of the work I did throwing treats back to Ruse to catch. When we competed the other weekend, the wait on the start line was the first thing to breakdown.>>
Stays are hard, indeed 🙂 At the competition – what did you do when she broke the stay? You did a good job reinforcing the stays here, but she still have enough errors that the rate of success was not as high as we want it to be – which means either it is too difficult or there is confusion about when/what the release actually is. You were clear on the release here, so it is important to be as clear in trials too. Also, it is important to raise the rate of success on the stays – which might mean that you need to take very short lead outs at competition so you can release before she breaks the stay, and also do some training runs to reward in the ring.
On the jumping form – she was consistent and rhythmic, which is good! Question: what was the distance here? She was a little ‘short’ especially on the 2nd jump, meaning her front feet landed just past the jump bar when ideally her front feet should land in the middle of the gap between the jumps. You might need to shorten up the gap to help her do that. Some dogs are still short when we make a smaller gap between jumps (one of mine is!) at which point, you can work on more plyometric exercises in conditioning (pushing off of the rear, to add power and strength) and also some extended cavalettis, so she gets used to stretching the stride a bit.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Sorry for the delay – somehow in the driving from Illinois I missed this!! Eeek!!!
She did well here – she seems to have sorted out the competition base and it is no longer hard for her. And she was nailing just about all of the entries AND staying in while you ran. Super!
>> The only issue she had was when I sent her from between 6/7 o’clock, and she went to the top of the poles and tried to enter from the other side. She knows she can use the top pole as a clue for sends from the bottom off-side (5/6) and tries to do the same from the other side. So I went all the way up to the top with her and cued the correct entry. I’m not going to stress about this (unless you think I should>>
I think these entries go on the list of things to get to eventually… but they are not high priorities right now. Just make a mental note of “I will revisit those at some point” but they are not important at the moment.
>>I don’t anticipate being in many situations where I would be sending her to the far end of 12 poles from the 6/7 location.>>
I agree – that is a high level Masters challenge that you *might* see at some point in the future?? But it is low on the list of things to train at this stage 🙂
>>I think it’s time to move on to making 12 poles fun and fast (and accurate) from at least the top half of the clock and then we’ll ease into the lower half as experience and confidence continue to build. >>
Totally agree! Onwards to fast & fun 12 poles. One thing that I think will be very important for her is rewarding the weaves, specifically, rather than after the next obstacle. She is going to the entry carefully but then blasting out to the reward placement. So when you work 6 and 6, do lots of rewarding between poles 6 and 7 (about 6-8 feet apart) so that entry and first set of poles remains as valuable as the second set. And in sequences, you can even put in 4 poles and reward those, rolling the reward so it lands between the last pole and the next obstacle.
Keep me posted on how she does with building up to 12! I think it will be easy for her 🙂
have fun!
TracyHi! Sorry for the delay – somehow in the days of driving I missed this one!
>>Sunday night we did another find em session. I did focus games at first and then my first couple of attempts with the frisbee had a 95% fail rate . After four reps I stopped. >>
That was smart – sometimes we just need to abandon ship for a minute LOL!!
>>So im thinking the value of the weaves isn’t quite there especially compared with the teeter.
Entirely possible – or the teeter is easier. Or both.
>>So after the teeter session and a break I went back and opened the poles up more, no frisbee and worked on running. He seemed much happier (minus a few confusions with set ups after the rep).
>>This set up he was much more successful so I think with the environmental issues he needs clearer rules and more open polestar.>>
Yes, this was a really successful session! Something to think about – when he is struggling, try to dial back only 1 variable, instead of all the variables. So when he was struggling with the poles being tighter plus you moving plus the arousal from the frisbee, the first place to start is dialing back just one of those (such as going to a lower value toy or food) but leaving the others in place. That way you can get success with your motion and the poles a little tighter. And if he *still* struggles, you can dial back one of the other ones, such as opening the poles a little. That way, you can also spotlight what exactly he might be havng a question about – is it the motion? Tightness of poles? Frisbee? The only way to know is to only change one at a time.
Then when you dial one thing back, you can quickly try to add it back or raise criteria on the others. In this session, he did really well, so you can raise the criteria by adding more motion or tightening the poles a bot, all during the same session. Or have the frisbee in your pocket. That will allow you to progress the behavior more quickly, all while sorting out what his distractions are.
So for the next session, you can start where you left off here and then gradually tighten up the poles a little within the session, and see how he does! If he has a struggle, you can dial back one variable: if the poles end up pretty straight, you can dial back motion a bit til he is successful then add it back in. Let me know if that makes sense.
>>I also noticed during this training session I have rewarded the middle (in between my legs) too much and I need to start reinforcing being at my side more.
Yes, that will help too – you can lure him to your side a bit so that he doesn’t offer the middle set up position.
Nice work! Let me know if the idea on the variables makes sense!
TracyHi there!
>> After watching the video it looks like I need to decel earlier? He is going pretty long and wide over the jump even with verbal cue for tight turn.>>
I think the main thing will be tat you have to accelerate more, in order to show the transition into deceleration and then turn sooner. It wasn’t necessarily that the decel was late… it was that it was too similar to the acceleration phase so he didn’t really see the difference. You did have some reps where you were trying to exaggerate it with smaller steps, but the overall rhythm of the motion was the same.
You can also rotate sooner – on these reps, when you freeze the video at his takeoff spot, you should be rotated and running the new direction. But you were generally still decelerated and a little sideways to the jump, which means it was a tiny bit late. So going back to the accelerating into it – if you accelerate more, the deceleration will be more dramatic and then you can rotate sooner.
>>I felt like I needed more distance to better show the difference between me accelerating and decelerating.>>
You can totally add more distance if you like, it will help be able to add all the elements: but start very close to the cone and then explode away from it so the deceleration is very distinct – you can lower your shoulders as you run on the acceleration and then stand up more on the deceleration. It might also help if you put little markers out for you to see how long to accelerate, where he will be when you decel, and where he will be when you rotate. Here is an example of what I mean when I was playing around with one of my small dogs on wrap – I have little cones on the ground so I can keep track of my timing relative to the dog’s position:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZqorl5UpIk
One other little detail – I love that you added in a big racetrack! It was a smart balance to all of the turning. When you have a jump out there and you send him around the back of it, have him come back on over the bar, though so he doesn’t get into the habit of running past the bar on backsides.Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
He is doing well here – a couple of tweaks to help things be even smoother:
>> I found trying to do blinds without continuing to move and cross body rewarding very awkward…but I tried! I wasn’t getting super tight turns so please advise.>>
The rewarding across the body was going well, it does feel awkward at first but then it gets more comfy – you can use a longer toy so it is easier to show him. But definitely keep moving til he reaches you – you were stopping and turning back to him on a bunch of the BC reps when you should be moving towards the next wing so he can chase your line. You don’t have to move fast at first as you sort out the mechanics and timing, but definitely keep moving 🙂
On the FC wraps – using the transitions, you can turn sooner on the wraps at :05 and :13 and :52 so he can drive out of them. You were a little late so he was collecting before the wing but then had to wait to finish the turn around them. Ideally you are already turned and heading up the next line before he even arrives at the wing. At :48 you got there and rotated nice and early – in that situation, you can just move away to the new line, no need to put your hand there on the ‘landing spot’ as it causes him to slow down to wait for you to clear the line (I know some folks use that hand cue on reverse wraps but it is not needed and delays the handler from getting off the dog’s line).
At :08 he didn’t see the tandem turn cue (I think that is what you wanted) so you can call him before he enters the tunnel so he comes out looking for you and the arm cue.
On the Blinds – you were really emphasizing the connection of rewarding across the body, and that was great! He was really reading the side change. Yay! So now to tighten them up: use the same early timing as FC wraps. Your motion and verbal commits him to the wing and you should be completely finished with the BC and reconnected before he arrives at the wing.
At :22 & :28 you were moving through it and you had the earliest timing of your BC reps so his lines were really good on those! They were a tiny bit late, so keep working to start them when he is maybe halfway to the wing so they are finished before he arrives at the wing.
The BCS at :34 and :38 were definitely late, so the turn was not as tight. On the BC at :41 and the last several, you were trying to stand still too much: you can totally keep moving. The ultimate goal is to be able to BC and run out of them at top speed, with connection.
Towards the end, you did a big race track – NICE! He seemed to like that a lot 🙂 FAST and great commitment. Mix lots of those in when working on the tighter turns so he can maintain the joyous “yeeehaw!” of running fast 🙂
Nice work!!
TracyYay! River did a great job on the full teeter in the new place!!! Nice work with the warm up games to help transfer the knowledge. The billboard target helped her a lot! And you can see how the environment stimulated her more too – so on the first full teeter on the first video, she was a little ‘forward’ at 1:08 – it seems like she felt off balance doing that, so on the next rep, she overcompensated with the weight shift (which is a MUCH better choice than splatting herself!). So that 2nd full teeter was a little slower. But on the 2nd video, she was sorting out how to be fast AND balanced – so she was working the weight shift more and doing it closer to the end. Yay! I don’t think she was too hot or tired on those, I think she was actively sorting out how to shift the weight as close to the end as possible without getting off balance. That is great! And the releases were great too, as that will maintain her desire to get to the end of the board.
My only suggestion is to remember to use clear reinforcement markers/releases – in the heat of the moment, we all get into the “yes!” as a release LOL!!! So plan your release and verbal before the rep, so she doesn’t end up wanting to release on a yes or on motion.
Great job! At this point, she just needs more exposure, in terms of taking the skills to new places, adding it to sequences, reducing the target size, etc.
Tracy
Nice job on both of these sessions! It was smart to not change any other elements when there was a new variable (husband walking & talking) in the first video. She seemed very confident on those reps except when the toy was right near the board: that distracted her and then she was surprised when the board slammed. But she recovered well (and you moved the toy away :)) It gives us insight into how a distraction might draw her focus away, so we can use that to add some distractions later on in training.
The second session looked great, and she was a good girl on her first teeter!!! She definitely gave you that look of “what the,.. was that correct??” Ha! But you had a big party and that was perfect. It was hard to see if a target was there or not – if not, you can definitely have on there as it will give her a strong focal point to get into end position (she loves end position :)) and if needed, it can even have pre-planted PB on it! I don’t mind a bit of a prompt for now because it is easy to fade out .
Great job here! Future sessions will look similar to this 2nd video, with more visible target and even some yummies already on the target: and then after the full teeter, let’s see how she feels about it by asking her if she wants to do another normal elevator game. That will give us an idea of how many reps we can plan for and how many full teeters we can ask for,
Tracy
Hi! The first rep was really good – and then he stopped a little shorter on the other reps. I think what is stopping him a little shorter is that his head is coming up to watch you (there are a lot of years of reinforcement history on that). So to keep convincing him to look down to the end of the board and not look at you until he has arrived in position and the board is on the ground, two things to help:
first, leave a small bit of the visual target on the board, mainly to really solidify the habit of head-down on the board (don’t look at da momma!)
second, most (or all) of the reinforcement can be thrown back to him to land right at the bottom of the board where it meets the ground. If the placement of reinforcement is always there, he is very likely to look there. If the placement of the reinforcement is from you hands, he is more likely to look up at you – and considering the reinforcement history, it will take more rewards to convince him that the reward is not coming from you hand 🙂 so you can throw a cookie or a toy back to him 95% of the time to really shift his focus down to the end of the board and keep him driving to the very end of it.Let me know if that makes sense! He is doing really well so this ‘keep your head down’ is the last piece of the puzzle 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
A couple of ideas for you on this to help maintain the drive all the way across the board:
I think the most important part for him is the predictability of the teeter in terms of what is going to happen, how to earn reinforcement, etc. There was some unpredictability here and that was causing him to think more than we want.
>>I starte with the bang game
He did well on that, but the bang game and the elevator game should look more different than here: you were holding the board which means the elevator is coming, with all of the distinct steps. But instead you dropped it and cued the target position, which can be surprising (and cause dogs to start over-thinking, and slowing down). So try to always have one end propped up and no hands on the board for the bang game (hold him next to you) – versus if your hand is on the board, always do the elevator game. It makes it incredibly predictable which is good!
>> then did the crazy elevator game,
You can add a little more speed into it but not getting as far ahead, letting it drop more and then catching it – it is possible that being there too soon and already holding it is causing him to decelerate a little early? Especially is food rewards are not the main thing right now 🙂
>> then the full teeter. Still not extremly driving to the end but it was, okay. I’m guessing with the arousal of a trial environment it will get faster???>>
>>I tried to get his arousal up by doing a little mini course and well, that made things worse. He stopped in the middle of the teeter.
Yes, more arousal will get more speed, but I also think being more predictable will get it. When he stopped in the middle at 1:05, I don’t think it was because there was more arousal – I think it was because you were sooooo far away and behind him. Note how he drives onto the teeter then stops and looks for you. His frame of reference at this stage is you being ahead and close, so those were two big changes that were too big (Stark does not like changes on the teeter LOL!!!).
So in the interest of gradually adding in those changes, you can be a little lateral (a couple of feet) but ahead. And separately, be very close and behind (like doing the rear crosses from a wing wrap) – doing that from a tunnel is hard because he can’t see you til he hesitates and says “where did da momma go??” And try to add only one variable at a time so it is all gradually introduced.
>> I had a couple of pieces of chicken left so I ended with a crazy elevator game with chicken and then a quick release.>>
Perfect!
You can also continually work the One Hit Wonder concept at all stages of teetering. When he is starving for his dinner, do one rep of tunnel to teeter and his full dinner will be the reward. That really keeps the teeter high in value!
>>So, I am wondering…… with my paps, I put a spoon/measuring cup on the end of the teeter and they got rewarded for running to the end and driving down while I was away from the teeter. I am thinking this may not be a bad idea for Stark.>>
If his 2020 target still visible there? If not, it is fine to put it back in because it will really help him drive forward.
It is possible that the spoon attached to the board will help, but it also would need to be in the right spot to be able to get the 2o2o position after it lands – so you can play with a longer spoon or something that he might be able to reach when he is on the board and still step into 2o2o. Introduce it in the bang game with a tiny bit of tip so he is not surprised.
The other thing I think will help is a high value reward target placed about 4 or 5 feet from the end of the board, to serve both as a focal point and a reward. So his disc or a Manners Minder or something can be out there. And when he hits his 2o2o position, you can release to it (regardless of where you are). That can help maintain drive to the end of the board and also help him NOT feel the need to look for you as he is doing the teeter (looking for you slows him down). As with everything else, introduce it in the bang game so he knows the concept before adding the full teeter.
>>We are doing a teeter tour this Thursday to Paige’s house and I need to set a game plan for Stark. I only rented the ring for 30 minutes. I don’t need all that time to do his teeter.>>
Let his response guide the way, and it is fine if he does not go across the full teeter yet. All games should have a target visible (or if you try the reward out ahead, a target AND the reward out ahead. Start with the bang game with a target, do a couple of reps. Then take a break, and assess. If he is concerned? Come back to another rep – lower the tip and increase the value. If he is happy and likes it? Try some regular elevator game reps. Then take a break and assess when he is concerned or if he is fine.
The goal is to stop asking for teeters 50% SOONER than you are tempted to do so. Tempted to do 10 reps? Cool…. force yourself to stop at 5. Teeter tours are the ultimate in human self-control because nothing good comes from doing too many. You can spend the rest of the time doing weaves and other stuff 🙂
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
