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Hi! You can totally use this setup like you did for rear crosses, he really seemed to be getting it on the first couple of reps!
For the Go rep at :20 and :38 and :57- throw the toy sooner so he doesn’t decelerate or look back at you. The timing of the toy throw reward is when he exits the start wing and looks ahead (long before he arrives at the jump).
You had GREAT timing of the throw at :46!!!! To build the layer, start closer to the start wing so you have room to keep running and layer.If you place the toy out there, it needs to stay out there for all reps, not just the GO reps 🙂 Placing it out there on only the reps where he will go to it doesn’t really help him learn the verbals, because it is too big of a lure. So it can be out there the whole time: sometimes you cue him to go, sometimes you cue the ‘out’ to the other jump like you did at :24 (and then throw a different reward).
Nice work! Let me know what you think! Fingers crossed for great weather on Friday so you can enjoy your day off 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>.The distance did mean I didnt manage to get to the right place often.>>
Yes, this is a big course to try to get to all the places, I feel that pain LOL! But that is why it is also really good for working on the verbals, because we can’t help a lot with handling. I couldn’t necessarily hear all the verbals for most of the video (barking dogs), but I could hear them at the end. One thing I think I could hear was “jump” which might be too general for her. She might need more specific information on the longer lines, like GO GO GO. I also heard the right verbal (that was good – keep supporting it with motion to make it easier for her to turn away) and backside verbals which were also good!
>>. Fusion struggles with focus when distance and speed gets gretaer.
The main thing I see here is that all rewards are coming from your hands, so there is more value next to you, which explains why distance is hard for her: if the value if all close to you, then moving away from you and working at a big distance is not a way to get reinforcement in her mind. Even if you stop her and she sits or downs, You are either delivering the reward to her or doing a short toss of the reward so there is not enough reinforcement away from you on the line.
To help build the distance, try to match your placement of reinforcement to the verbal directional:
-Go means reward is thrown ahead on the line
-left/right means reward is tossed on the soft turn line
-Backside means reward is dropped into the landing side of the jumpOn those 3, don’t reward from your hand and keep moving so you are not near the reward. The wraps can have rewards from you hands! And be sure to plan in advance to get the reward in and be ready to throw it – if you reward after stopping because of an error, it won’t really help build the skill.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Some of my mistakes are coming from my forgetting when I’m supposed to be moving and talking and when I’m supposed to be still and quiet.
It is probably just muscle memory taking over. For example, I know I am NOT supposed to yell “YES” when my 3 year old dog is on course (because she thinks it is a marker for a cookie and will come to me) but yet… that big YES slips out here and there hahaha. No worries if you move too much 🙂
>> I know you’ve told us but am struggling to remember things 30 seconds after I’ve read them lately, I keep doing it wrong, get flustered and weird.>>
I feel this! Life for all of us lately is like spinning 20 plates in the air and I totally know what you mean about reading something then it is GONE 30 seconds later LOL!! I battle that in training by either bullet-pointing a list of things to remember (in writing or taking a photo on my phone). And, I have one of those small white board and erasable markers so I can make a short list of what I want to do and it sits there, highly visible, while I train the dog (it lives in the car when I am traveling hahaah)
>> I don’t want you to think I’m not listening, I am, Its just not natural yet.
I totally think you ARE listening and making great adjustments. A lot of these games have mechanics that are opposite of what you might have been doing and it is not so easy to change that 🙂 You’re doing a great job!
On the video:
> This is Zippie in a largely empty arena, my least favorite place / time to train because she always seems like a different dog.
Your least favorite… but the most important. That giant empty arena simulates entering the ring and you get similar behavior. She is less stimulated and engaged because the environment doesn’t engage her, so we work to engage her and teach her to center her own arousal level. So even though it is not as much fun for you… you’ll see the results and it will be worth it 🙂
>>She’s much more fun in class – this “ho-hum” dog always surprises me. So I tried to keep it simple and short.>>
I think the session was great! You were so good about being very neutral in your mechanics (not helping, letting her do the work), being quick with the reinforcement, then back to neutral. Yay! And she was able to engage really well in a game that is not naturally stimulating. Perfect!
You kept it short, sweet, and highly reinforcing. A big win! Part of what is happening is that we are changing her conditioned emotional response: instead of the “omg this big ring, I feel the pressure” we are saying “yes, big ring, easy game, lots of cookies, good times ahead” which will help translate to a positive conditioned emotional response while also getting her to produce “trained” behavior in a lower state of arousal (which brings her to a higher state). It all works together in a big happy cycle.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome, I am glad you are here even though it sounds like life has been insane lately!!!
Poor you, poor Merlin. Sorry about your arm but I am glad it is unfreezing!!! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help while your arm gets back to normal. And I am VERY glad Merlin is ok after the dog attack!!!!!
About the engaged chill – it can be a minute or less if it is hard, especially after wound care. It should be a really happy time for you both – and it can be something like hanging on the couch together watching TV for now too 🙂 It is basically quality time without food or toys, where you interact in a chill way and relax together. Let me know if that makes sense. Keep me posted on how it goes, and how you both feel!
TracyGood morning!
I love being able to elicit trial behaviors in training!!
>> I decided to see what she would do when it was just the two of us and I didn’t do any ‘heating of the porridge’ before asking for a couple of behaviors and then trying to run her. I didn’t bring her ball out and just put some med-high value treats on a chair in the shed.
Sounds like you were able to change the home environment to be more uncertain, which made it more like the trial environment – lower arousal and questions about how the reinforcement can be earned. Impactful!
>>She was willing to walk along with me and do a right and a left and some nose touches (no treats/reward other than verbal). She was even willing to bark at me. When we moved to the ‘start line’, she did her shut down, wouldn’t make eye contact and could/would no longer perform any behavior.
Well, this is good because now we have a general idea of what is happening! Uncertainty (“what is happening, why is this different?”) and confusion about how to earn reinforcement (“wait, where is the reward? Where is the usual comfort zone game for reward?”) translated in trial behavior response. Huzzah!
So, even though she has a good understanding of running courses at home with toys or treats outside the ring, it has not fully translated to the trial environment and you are able to reproduce the behavior. With that in mind:
– let’s really focus on working the remote reinforcement all the way from the bottom up. No porridge heating before it – just show her the reward, put it down, start to move away. This is the tiny slice of the bigger picture that she struggled with.
– let’s focus on the engaged chill behavior too. There is a distinct correlation between dogs struggling with the trial environment and a lack of engaged chill behavior (the dogs need to be kept in “hot porridge” with cookies and toys). Does correlation equal causation? I don’t know but over the years, the lack of engaged chill is consistent across the spectrum. And having engaged chill skills is also consistently found in dogs that can easily succeed in the ring in terms of focus.
– and, another non-porridge-heating game: the pattern game. Definitely work this in a cold porridge state because it helps the dog assess the environment and look inward, to help control her internal state. In order words, she will learn to look around and be fine with it all because she knows how to center herself, rather than rely on external things (tricks and treats and balls) for that.
Let me know how it goes!
TracyGood morning!
Sorry for any confusion!
>> So, are you suggesting I say go and toss the toy forward but not keep moving? I don’t want to override my motion. Gemma struggles to turn from a tunnel and I did a lot of telling her to go while I slowed down or stopped. So, I don’t think she sees lack of motion as a turning cue and I don’t want to make the same mistake.>>
Definitely keep moving and as you say Go, you should be showing acceleration (which she definitely liked :)) I agree, we don’t want to dilute deceleration as a turning cue. You were having to try to outrun her to be at th tunnel exit for handling the Go, but we can have you run and throw the reward Instead of trying for the wing, so that she will go straight based on the verbal and not because you are ahead of her.
>>I actually did have ties on the ground in front of the tunnel at both ends, but they are black so you might not be able to see them.
Ah! I didn’t see them. Try to anticipate her arrival to them, then – rather than see her arrive there and then say the verbal (which makes the verbal late), anticipate her arrival so you can time the cue with the arrival on the line.
>>I’ll try releasing commands. But, then does that become the cue where everything needs to be released multiple times?>>
I think you mean repeating (not releasing) – and yes – I am a BIG fan of repeating verbals. Saying the verbal once makes it really hard to be salient as compared to everything else that is going on in that moment. Also, saying it once requires spot on perfect timing which is really hard to do consistently. Repeating it means we can be early, on time, and even a little late to help seal the deal 🙂
Saying it a few times not only helps it break through all of the other things happening, but the repetition also allows us to make the verbals sound different. For example:
Go and Right can sound very much the same if said once while running. But if repeated, we can get:
GO GO GO GO GO versus riiiiight riiiiiiightTotally different and MUCH easier for Sprite to process in the moment because she is getting so much more info to help understand the cue rather than just the word.
In order to breathe while running, we don’t need to talk to the dog the entire time 🙂 If my motion is clear, I can say something like “a-frame” once or even be quiet in the moment, saying the oxygen for the directionals.
Hope that makes sense 🙂
TracyHello! Great seeing you in class!!! Safe travels to NAC, we can see if anything will work in a hotel room LOL!
Tracy
Hi!
Looking at the 2 videos – yes, we can isolate the threadle and help her out 🙂 Also, when you worked the turns on the wing in the 2nd video, it made a big difference and the threadles were starting to develop!The serps looked great, so you can add more speed to them. Fast jog, then slow run… then REAL run LOL!
For the threadles – for now, keep them separate from serps so she doesn’t have to multitask. You can always go back to the balance sessions when the threadles are super strong. To start, review the MaxPup threadles with motion:
And then when she remembers, you can go back to what you did on the 2nd video – be moving and cuing the tight turn on the wing, then the threadle. Just be super sure that you are not stepping back at all – your lower body should be basically identical to the serps, staying forward and closer to the jump so we don’t have any rotation of the feet as part of the threadle cue. You were already getting success on this win the 2nd video, so I think it will work nicely!
She is very close to having it pretty solid! The review then going back to the game should help. Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Nothing to be embarrassed about! It is always good to post these sessions. I think more connection will help as you exit the wraps, really strong eye contact. And on the smiley faces, use food for now. For bringing the toy into the picture, work the rocking horse game with 2 wings or 2 barrels in the bigger space. That will focus on teaching her how to find the wings, ignore the toy, and let you do wraps and race tracks (which will also work the left and right).
I think it is really important to add a toy-in-hand marker because it is not clear when she can have it – there is a lot of praise as the marker, but there is also a lot of praise when you don’t want her to take it (also with cookies!)
For example: yes at :30 meant take the cookie. Yes at :44 did NOT mean come take the cookie and she was confused and frustrated by that. So – no more yes, only use cues/markers (I know that people try to make an argument for yes as a marker but I am telling ya… it is a bad idea :))
Clarity on the markers will be VERY helpful for her, and then all the pieces will come together nicely!T
I am bugging everyone about engaged chill because so far there has been a grand total of one video posted with it LOL!!!!
Hi!
>> One quick note on sniffing. He really likes to sniff some particular spots in the barn. Where everyone comes in, especially. He also will get fixated on a spot if a dog has peed there. It can be hard to tell if that is really displacement sniffing or just “I love this smell and it’s more fun than anything else” type of sniffing. He really loves to sniff on walks and, basically, everywhere!>>
Sniffing can serve about a zillion purposes :)so much of their brains is devoted to it 🙂 it is possible that in a moment where he disengages to sniff/avoidance it is both stress and “ooh that smells good!” Generally when arousal drops too low, things in the environment get more obvious like good smells 🙂
>> I work with all manner of things that are distracting when we train at home and he can deal with that much better.
When adding distractions at home, keep track of his rate of reinforcement so he is working at 90% or better.
>> He may bark at men or very large women during these classes, if they are very close, when he first comes in, or if they stare at him. >>
Arousal state is lowered, which causes an underlying anxiety to come up. Pattern games will both help deal with the anxiety and get a positive CER, and raise the arousal state too!
>>However, once he is searching, he doesn’t seem >>bothered and can ignore them.>>
Arousal state is increased by searching, so distractions fade into the background. Yay!
>>The grass grabbing can be when I want to start, like when I say “ready” (so I stopped saying that), and he will also do it on the run. >>
Grass grabbing is similar to sniffing – could serve a variety of functions! From what I’ve seen, it is an arousal behavior with a frustration/stress component. And it could be simply that he feels aroused but not sure what to do with that feeling.
Keep me posted on the games, this will be fun!
TracyOops, I missed it, sorry!!
For the food as toy, I meant moving the food hand around for him to chase more rather than handing it to him or tossing it on the ground. You were doing it with the “woosh” moments later in the video and that seemed to work well!! You can also add in running a few steps as you have him chase the food hand.
However, I love how much he likes the food toy and will tug on it!!! How does he do with it in other environments? This could be very useful!
Interesting experiment with the FOMO! He was definitely in a different arousal state – and I agree with both of your observations:
Yes, this is potentially useful too! And also yes – before he leash comes off, get him engaged. Rather than just tugging, I suggest the volume dial game 🙂
Start the volume dial game in a more chill environment first so you both get the feel of it, then you can try it with FOMO 🙂
Also, add in some engaged chill so you can both have a moment to breathe 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
PS CB says thank you!Please send me the running clip! This one looked good but we need to get you running 🙂
I don’t mind the barking – she was working nicely and not barking AT you. So when she was jumping, what was happening? Disconnect? Toy distraction? Let me see 🙂 you can also use food as you add more motion to see if that helps.
Try to add a toy marker for when the toy is now available for grabbing, instead of praise. That will help when she is really excited. 🙂
Nice work!
Tracy
