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Good morning!
>> Yes, the covered / open air training arena is familiar to her, and there was a barn hunt class going on behind us, I didn’t realize how much noise was getting picked up, LOL.
All good distractions!
>>Good to know that I can party “food from the hand” in Find My Face because that will lower the latency — every piece of cheese or meatball gets icky gross in the arena dirt – blech!>>
Yes – now that we are past the teaching phase of FMF, you can shift rewards to your hands (no need to use the pattern game framework now because the cue is your bad handling LOL!!! My dogs love my terrible handling hahahaha
>>I’d like to start adding more speed to this game – but I assume I don’t need to slam on the breaks for a disconnect? I’m thinking a clumsy blind cross or running off her line without cuing a pull would be good examples? Or maybe we don’t want to practice bad handling at speed intentionally (it happens often enough without)?
No need to add speed to it – it will happen organically as we try to handle courses and mess up LOL!! Ideally, we never mess up and never need this game, but that is simply not agility reality for anyone. You main goal should still be fast & fun sequences rather than setting up deliberate stops – but she will be prepared for mess ups. So in the moment of mess up: reward her then keep going.
>>What I think I’m hoping for is, if / when we get separated on course, she should either take an obstacle and come find me or just find me, and since IRL that happens at speed do we practice at speed, or does the money we put in the bank in these small set ups set the concept, and as long as we reward when it happens IRL (cause it will), that’s the better carry over?>>
Yes, the money in the bank concept followed by the reward in the moment is exactly what we are going for.
>>Thanks for the note on depletion, I will keep that in mind.
Depletion is challenging because we don’t see it, til something happens. So limiting sessions to never see depletion is ideal.
>>We have a private lesson tomorrow in a new place, with someone I’ve discussed our goals of “wind in our hair” front sides of jumps running. We may find that this private lesson approach replaces our group classes in that it’s a better fit for the course design you suggest we focus on. I’m mindful of over training but trying to find a good fit for all that we’ve been working on these last ~ 10 weeks. we’ll warm up with the various games as appropriate then see what we have.>>
It is a hard call – the privates are great for the fast and fun and front side giddy up side of things 🙂 but she needs exposure to other people and dogs in the group setting, so I don’t think you want to let that go entirely. The most perfect combo would be putting her in a lower level class (like pre-novice or anything where they emphasize ‘get on a line and stay on a line’) rather than backsides or threadles or anything that pulls her off lines. I put my dogs in lower level classes all the time, because I want them to passionately find the lines they will see in competition before I add in the fancy pants moves that they will almost never see (and I do a TON of UKI, and I will tell you that they still almost never see most of those moves except for a couple of types of classes that I don’t enter them in LOL!!!
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
When Mike is away, the Pony will play! (It is too early here for poetry hahaha). And the photo of the BCs on their backs is adorable 🙂The sessions looked good here!
The serps are looking really good – nice timing of departure from 1 at :20 and :25 and :32, and yes I liked your upper body position a lot at :32!!!
On the wrap-to-the-inside of 2, much calmer timing at :42 🙂 The timing is to let the dogs run across our feet, which is what you did here. He looked a you a little like “what the heck!” But his commitment and turn looked strong!
At :46 you added more lean over to jump 2 and more dog-side arm to indicate it – I don’t think you need that there for him, as he will commit with the position and verbal and ‘new arm (left arm in this case) which will require you to twist less. The other reasons to not use the cross arm here are that it will be easier to eventually explode away when you are not twisted as much, and also that cross arm can sometimes indicate a slicing rear cross (whiskey-ish turn) so you want to use the new arm to help him know it is a wrap not a RC.
Nice FC at :52! You will be able to leave earlier and earlier – partially because he will be more experienced, and partially because as he grows up and the jump height rises, he will need to make earlier commitment decisions to take off for a 20” bar, which makes you being able to leave even easier 🙂
Looks like the stays are going well too, and you are rewarding – the stays are a critical element of these skills for sure 🙂
The Get Out session went well too
You had good connection on the get out and a clear difference with the ‘don’t get out’ reps. He did really well!
And adding the FC at 1:43 and blind at 1:51 went well – he looked a little surprised on these but it might have been a timing thing (you can be earlier, starting it as soon as you see his head turn to the bar), plus lack of experience on the crosses after the get out.
When you moved the wing further away for 2:04 – FC was really great! Perfect! he was understanding that it was coming plus you had more time & room to start it. Really lovely!
The bar moment at 1:18 was not a bar drop – he pushed the wing to drive to the toy when you said ‘yes’. So try not to say yes LOL!!! It is a bad habit that we ALL do when we shouldn’t and it causes errors – yes as a reward marker (whether we trained it on purpose or not) causes too much handler focus. For the get out, you can mark the correct decisions with a toy toss on the line rather than driving to you.
The bar at 2:11 was caused by a late blind The side changed happened as he was in the air so he scrambled to adjust and couldn’t get it done. You can use a reset cookie there if you don’t want to give him the toy – presenting the toy and then pulling it away can cause frustration, so you can wait to mark and present til you see if the bar stays up and you can also use a different value of reinforcement if it falls. I use a reset cookie as a “that was my fault, sorry, thanks for trying hard and not biting me” 🙂
In general, I will only withhold reinforcement for a dropped bar with a baby dog if I can mark the exact moment I saw him make the decision to drop his feet on it or touch it (really hard to do). When adding in new moves that require timing from us and adjustments from the pup, you can also lock in the bar at first so you two can work it out without potentially hitting the bar.Note the massive difference in timing at 2:17, I liked this timing! He was pretty good there too, lost confidence with the commitment at the last minute: also worthy of a reset cookie. To build more commitment on these especially as you add in the crosses, you can throw the reward to the landing side to balance the value rather than have him come to you for the reward. On the last rep, you waited til he landed which set him up for success! Yay!
To help build the independence on the skill with the crosses here, you can add the thrown reinforcement and also, walk through the exit of the crosses. Motion is the devil LOL!! So when adding the early timing and crosses, you can dial back the motion distraction – then when he is very successful, you can dial the motion back up to add in running 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
It was great seeing you and the girls and the whole NY crew last weekend! I have missed you all!!!! And all handlers and dogs looked great 🙂Lots of good work here, with 2 of the most challenging games!
At the beginning with the tunnel threadle game –
At :13 when she didn’t go to the wing and ended up in the threadle tunnel entry – I would have rewarded her there, she was reading your motion and you hadn’t really stepped to the wing. That might be why she went to the straight ahead tunnel entry at :19 and :31 (“the other side didn’t get rewarded, must be this side”). You got her doing it nicely after that!She did well on the tunnel threadles when rotated your feet towards her as she wrapped the wing. In the next session, try to fade that out by moving slowly but with your feet facing forward. Rotating feet will work if you are ahead of her at the right time… but we don’t want the foot rotation to be the cue because you won’t always be ahead of her 🙂 She is speedy!!! So you want to be able to handle it from behind too 🙂
:58 is a good example of “don’t say yes” (or any yes variation) as a marker because it pulls the dogs off lines LOL!! Ask Tina how she also has a good demo of that from yesterday’s video LOL!
Adding figure 8s went well! She is definitely listening to the different cues really well, so now we can fade out the foot rotation.
Backside proofing:
When she is turning to her left at the beginning, at 1:48 – to help her find the bar as a default you can drop the reward in on landing side the instant she arrives at the entry wing rather than waiting to see if she will take the jump.You got her to come in with rotation on the next reps but for the eventual serps and German turns where you don’t rotate, the early toy drops without foot rotation will really help. You had really good feet forward serps at 3:50 and 4:11! This is what I mean about not rotating and she did well (right turns are easier for her). Good timing of the toy drop at 4:19 with countermotion.
I think that she is stronger turning to her right on both of these games (we can really see it here at the end of the backside video – so you can start the sessions with the ‘easier’ side (turning to her right) then change to the left turns.And for the left turns, the earlier reward will really help on the backsides.
One more thing for the next backside session: You can now fade the extreme connection a bit, less dog-side arm back so you are not rotating your lower body at all, do the arm-back and connection only enough that your feet keep moving forward with speed (the theme is feet forward here :)) And add more motion like at 2:54 – she smoked you and there was not enough motion to support the backside. When you were ahead of her or parallel to her, she was great 🙂 For now, you want to set the line from ahead of her and in motion.
Great job here! Let me know what you think and see ya in MaxPup 3!!!
TracyHi! You can email agilityuniversity@gmail.com and we will get you set up 🙂
Thanks!
TracyI totally understand the feeling of panic and disappointment!
Those 3 are truly top notch instructors- tell them about your concerns and set your running order to be successful!Hi!
>>was it because of the in between moments that set us down a wrong road?
Nope.
>>Over stimulation from tunnels?
Nope.
>>Or my feet and arms just got out of line ?
Yep. LOL!
AND NO DUNKIN FOR YOU FOR SAYING YES hahaha (thank you Chata for making my point :))
OK back to the threadles – I think on the successful ones at :12 and :28, you were clearer in terms of moving towards it and being closer. On the ones where she was confused – at 1:12 and 1:40 you were too far from it and at 1:49, you were a bit far and not moving. So, stay close (less than an arm’s length) and move towards the tunnel entry.
She had two other questions:
At :50 on your tunnel cue – you were doing a Dancing With The Stars move there, with your arms out and a backwards step move so she was like WTF and didn’t take the tunnel? HA! She took it when you moved towards the tunnel, and you don’t need your arms back like that, you can actually use your arm to swoosh her into it a little 🙂At 2:06 and 2:17 – you threadle arm was way out away from your body and to be honest, it looked like a hand touch cue. A threadle cue is more traditional with a bent elbow and held across your chest, going towards the dog so there is a slight upper body rotation. The hand touch cue might be what she was thinking it was… plus there was a little frustration happening so you go offers of hand touch/tooth hugs.
So, I think she was a good girl here and not over-aroused and your in-between moments looked great… you can clarify the mechanics of your line and motion and arm, and she will nail it! Let me know what you think 🙂
Tracy
really your arm will be out there for a tunnel threadle (2:06 and 2:17) – looked like a hand touch cueHi!
>>Ok thanks, the set point I had 12″, I was going to move to 14″.
Sounds good!
>> Do you want me up the spacing on the set point and accordion (the 1st 2 jumps)to 6′?
Yes, and if she has ay questions, you can shorten it a bit.
> I’ll raise the set point and keep moving out the accordion. On the accordion, what distance out to I go to? Would I want to mix up the distances later?
Eventually you would want jump 3 to end up at 24 feet or so. And yes, you can mix up distances too!
>>And I’ll introduce the double lowered like you suggested. Can I do the triple?
The double is useful in the set point, but the triple is too big for the set point. I save the triple for the accordion grid – when jump 3 gets to be 18 feet, you can make the 3rd jump a double. When jump 3 gets to be 21 feet or so, you can sometimes introduce the triple. Start them both low and then when the 3rd jump is at 24 feet, you can work the up to full height.
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
TracyHi!
His face in the photo is adorable!>>Initially I just did the same as yesterday- making sure he committed before taking off.>>
These lookd great! You started leaving a little earlier at :54 and he maintained commitment – ticked the bar but I think that was the only time he ticked it.
>>2) I tried the throwback as you described. I realized I switched arms yesterday. It went ok, he read it better for rep 2..
Forthe throw back – you would be a little further across the bar so it feels less awkward 🙂 more like where you were at 1:08 – you were center of the bar on jump 2, so it was easier to cue it.
On the 2nd part:
>>1) I’m not facing the bar enough for the serp?>>
The send to serps looked great and this is a really common use of this “move”. I think you can rotate your shoulders & chest to face the bar a tiny bit more – as much as possible provided you don’t change what yo uare doing with your lower body here, which was great!
>>3) for the handling moves where he came in to me when I tried to take off earlier, should I do a toy drop to keep him committed to jump 1? Or just back chain and start him between jumps 1 and 2?>>
On the first moment where he came into you instead of taking jump 2 at 1:37 – you were too early there 🙂 He didn’t get a chance to look at jump 2 (his front feet had just landed) when you were rotated away with a lot of countermotion – I think letting his back feet landing and waiting one more step will be perfect.
On the other reps where he didn’t take jump 1 – yes, yo ucan be a tiny bit later but I think you can try beind earlier but also being slower 🙂 You had 2 variables happening: earlier and faster! And that was too much 🙂 So be earlier, but walk through it and see how he does.
And yes, I would add in tossing a toy to the landing side of jump 1 (or leaving the MM there tucked into the landing side wing :)) to help him remember to look for the jump and not watch your motion 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyYou don’t need to push him, you can use it as an opportunity to set him up for success 🙂 How is/are the instructor(s)? Can you chat with them about ways to make it a useful training environment and not a stressful one?
T
Hi!
Nice arena! Is this a place where she has been before, or been a lot? She was very engaged (and I am proud of her brilliance!!)
And she was GREAT about finding the one cookie in the dirt and not getting caught in looking for the other cookie crumbs 🙂
Sounds like a busy environment too LOL!I love when the dogs choose to offer engagement without us having to put on a musical extravaganza to convince them to play 🙂
When you are playing find my face with obstacles, you can totally reward from your hand and make it a big party for the 2 of you.
>>(was tough to incorporate tunnels, they were set up under the dog walk)>>
No worries, it was a great session!
Kryptonite session looked good!! I am so glad you have access to this! She was a good girlie! And I was just about to suggest changing the Kryptonite position and then the chair-sitter moved more into the ring. And the more you can get people involved and moving about, the better… then at some point, when she is comfy, you ease off the distractions a bit and move her through the same stages as the FEO runs. You are currently in the “Just Like Home” stage (with cookies in your hands, I think) so you move to empty hands, then in and out to the reward station.
>>The one time I did lose her I think I was tentative on my send in the first place plus no “yes” marker.>>
Was that at about 3:35? My guess is that she was depleted and after having done s many good reps… there was nothing left in the bank account. So you can limit the # of reps you ask for (rather than a time limit) to help avoid errors of depletion.
Great job on these! I am excited about her progress!!!
TracyHi! These runs looked really fast and engaged!!!
>>I wish I had video of his amazing feat running under it. I looked in amazement at how he managed to slip so effortlessly between the tire and wing to still run under without moving anything.
OMG! Clearly he was a limbo champion in a past life LOL!! I think he probably needs a retrain on the tire, taking it out of the context of course work and doing some click/treat shaping in the class ring, where you are moving. Have it touching the ground so he can’t go under LOL!
>>And then he was so distracted by the smell on one of the feet my instructor and I had trouble getting his attention back to start.>>
Was this after the Tire Limbo Championships? It is possible that the tire confusion led to the sniffing, that is certainly something that I have seen happen with dogs.
>> I tried to run with empty hands but the dispenser kept falling out of my pockets so she said to continue and she would get it.>>
So it fell out, she picked it up, and he continued on with focus? WOW!
2nd run:
great run!
He did well with you helping him through the tire! And he seemed to like that connected cartoon lead out 🙂>> He got distracted by something in the sand for a moment before the weaves.
it might be the same as the foot sniffing near the tire – he is not entirely sure how to do the obstacle, so he sniffs as a bit of a stress reliever.
3rd run – he is on a roll! And I think you are more relaxed about running him, trusting him more – both of you entered the ring with a smile 🙂
I love how your classmates cheered, and they are correct – it was AWESOME! I bet they see a big difference because of all of the work you are doing!
And bonus – he did the darned tire LOL! And it is perfect, because then you could run out for rewards.
>>His two runs on Sunday for Standard and Gamblers will be from 10am-12pm and under cover. It will be a little cooler and hopefully he’s done before the storms as he does not like thunder.>>
Definitely don’t run him if there is thunder, we don’t want him to have a scary time. And this is USDAA (my memory is shaky today haha) – If standard is first, you can do a run just like you di dat the UKI trial, letting him know that you are obviously training (with all of the pre-run fun & games, plus the reward station). And depending on how that goes and what the gamblers course looks like, you can try for a next-level FEO run! I am home on Saturday so keep me posted about how standard goes 🙂
Tracy
Oh no, I am sorry to hear about the covid!!!! Ugh – being so careful and then you still get it. I hope you are feeling OK, and definitely hope your mom is feeling OK!!!! Fingers crossed for a very speedy recovery for both of you!! Let me know how you are feeling and if you need anything.
T
Hi!
I think she gets better and better with this, each time you play with it. She was really lovely in these 2 videos – she seems happy to leave the stash now, do some engagement near it, head to the line and do stays/releases without much difficulty. She was not tremendously distracted by Pip in the pen, even though she for sure knew he was in there 🙂 She had a bit of barking at the end of the 2nd video, but I think that was more of a bit of unclear handling as you tried to get her past the DW.
So, since this went well… we can start to tackle the final frontier of when she gets really stimulated and breaks her stays 🙂 The way to do this will be to let her watch Pip run through some tunnels and bark his head off… then immediately swap to her and play the game the exact way you did it here. If that is easy for her and she is successful like she was here? Cool beans! Then you can repeat the process but when it is her turn to move to the start line, use your ‘volume dial’ moment to get her wilder and barking and nutty… then train the stay 🙂
>>2 days Lucky Dog UKI this coming weekend. Lanna has never competed there. It is one ring that has walls most of the way around.
Sounds fun, I am jealous! It sounds like a good environment. I think top priority would be to make sure she is focused and engaged like she has been recently, and then the next environment to to bring the stay back 🙂 If you have the focus/engagement/speed of the last trial, and help her ‘remember’ the stay? That would be AMAZING because it would truly be all the pieces coming together 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
As an ‘outside’ eye, it is easier for me to see the big leaps forward and improvements, as well as the next steps. It is harder to see improvements and next steps when we are working with our own dogs 🙂
On the videos:
She is already quite good at FMF because you done such a great job of building value already. This first session was a great refresher and she was fabulous, of course. Correct – it is just another silly trick 🙂 I joke that the FMF trick is cued by my terrible handling hahahaYou can start looking more confused like trying to find the next obstacle on course or moving then freezing up a bit. That will be pretty realistic to the mistakes we all make on course 🙂
On the 2nd video:
Having the little living room obstacle course is clever 🙂 and she wad great about finding her platform when you were disconnected and near it. Click/treat to you for creating a setup that taught her the concept!!!
When you were a little disconnected but rotated and kind of facing nothing and not moving… she was correct to just find your face at :34, good reward!And offering the wrap again at :52? And that 2o2o at 2:14? Also good! Basically, we are getting her to offer “work” of any sort when there is a disconnected moment or stop in the action (find your face, take an obstacle, all good – anything that is not leaving is rewardable!)
She was great here. So now you can take this game into an agility environment:
Warm up with fast, fun, easy find my face as a trick. Then add in a simple sequence, like tunnel to a jump: and disconnect on the way to the jump.
In general, if you stand still a few feet from an obstacle, the dogs just find our face (which is rewardable). If you are moving and/or close to an obstacle, the dogs are more likely to offer “work”. But remember that any offer of sticking with you during a disconnected moment is rewardable, even if her nose goes down but she comes near you at first (approximations :))Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
