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Good morning!
Using the crate to add the treat smell distraction was a brilliant way to control the environment! He was definitely distracted!
Yes, you did the right thing with treats in your hands – this was significantly challenging enough that he had trouble even with treats in your hands! We have found the kryptonite!
For now – don’t drop the leash, as he seems to leave for the treats on the ground as soon as there is a tiny break in the action or he thinks he is ‘released’. He was doing really well with the engagement when you were asking for tricks and line up by the end of the video, so keep rewarding that for now!
>>Ok … I think we went really well and I think I need to practice this each day. How to I change the level of difficulty for this .. not that he’s ready atm? >>
A short practice each day is a good thing, in as many different environments as you can do it. Keep your sessions REALLY short (take a break, go in the house, come back out) so we can focus on that immediate first blast of focus.
And you can basically work on each of the games here: the tricks/volume dial and line ups went well, keep working those.
And definitely add in the leash off offered engagement so eventually you can walk in, take the leash off, and he will not look away from you. For now, though, do it with 2 leashes so when you take one off, he cannot leave for the kryptonite 🙂And instant focus is a good on here too! Can he touch his instant focus prop while the caged cookies are around?
And yes you can totally mix crate games into these too – he is really good at those so you can bring them into this game too as part of the rotating set of games 🙂
Great job, let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The first video link says the video is not available and the next 3 videos are the same link. But I liked what I saw on that video!!!
Wow, it is tight there, dogs and people literally inches away!
Pattern games with treats on your shoes is perfect for that environment so he can practice looking at them, then choosing to look back at you. You can place the cookie on your shoelaces so it won’t roll away or attract other dogs. And the volume dial tricks you did worked beautifully! Maybe in class have folks stand really close during his warm up – he is a little distracted because it is, well, super distracting!I knew it was going to be a successful run when he offered engagement at the start line before the leash even came off. YES! My only suggestion is to lead out less and get him into the run quicker – he was in the stay a little too long and started to look around.
He was a good focused boy on the run! Fast and smooth! Nice course you chose for him! And he gets a big gold star for ignoring the people up front, to find the triple at the end with you way behind. YAY!
>>Master JWW Q>>
Hooray! Congrats! Can’t wait to see the run, the video here is the standard run.
Great job! More runs today?
TracyGood morning! Thanks for the update!
It sounds like a good vacation from the universe. You’ve had a crazy time of it lately!!!!
>> So started it off on Saturday by crashing a jump at the jumpers workshop and hitting her leg hard enough she was limping a little. Good news is she has been fine since (and has a chiro appt Tues to be absolutely positively sure :)). She did run after the crash after I was sure she was okay (but toy in hand and struggling with environment). Each run got better after.>>
Ouch! Poor girl!! I am glad she is ok!
>>Also this week weather changes = terrible headache then I got bit by a patient on Thurs (while I was doing oral surgery – turns out the patient wasn’t as asleep as I thought).>>OUCH!!!! That must have really sucked. I hope the bite is healing easily and not too much pain.
>>1. We did the walk around on loose leash while my students walked the course rewarding check in very well – both treat in hand and treat in pocket. I feel it is ready for a small increase in difficulty. – do I work this dragging leash, off leash, or work toy on chair surprise toy in pocket?>Good!!!! I think you can do two things, in separate sessions:
– start with leash walking and then at some point, take the leash off so she keeps moving with you and getting rewarded while moving off leash
– separately, have a big yummy reward station visible and do it on leash, nothing in your hand my a surprise reward in a pocket.And it they go well separately, combine them so she ends up off leash with the reward station there (more on that below).
>>2. Her willingness to play with toy is better at barn every week.>>Awesome! That seems to indicate she is getting more relaxed and happy among all the smells and distractions.
>>3. Our on walk engaged chill and pattern game has become more fluent (and she is frothing less on walks>>Fluency on these is great and will really help in the trial environment!
>>4. She came to the AKC agility trial I am working for our flyball club. We worked the pattern game and engaged chill.>>Terrific! I wish you lived closer and we could do flyball together too!
>>1. The reward with non food reward for engagement exercise was a big struggle.
Do you mean the cookie-free pattern games? If so, leave that at the bottom of the priority list for now. She still needs the primary reinforcement so we can wait to go to a bridge or secondary.
>>2. Reward on chair with second toy in pocket in class at Leslie’s => take first jump then run to stash as soon as as the collar comes off. Couldn’t even do a trick till rewarded from toy in pocket. We’ll back this behavior up to rewarding with toy in pocket as soon as looks at me after removing collar.>>Alrighty then! Have you tried the 2 leash version of it? Leash off offered engagement with the big yummy stash available in clear view… but only one leash comes off so if she tries to head to the stash, she cannot get to it. That makes it easier to get the ball rolling on the reinforcement in that situation. You can’t do this over a jump but it is a good start!
>>3. Barn was less successful this week. All dogs were more distracted this week. It’s a barn, who knows what smells are there.Yep! We never really know what they smell or hear. If ALL dogs were struggling, then we won’t worry about it.
>>4. I feel she does better with some volume dial and not just removing leash.This is good to know and I agree based on what we have seen. We will be exploring this more specifically starting on Monday. In easy environments, keep doing the off leash offered engagement just to condition her to look at you when the leash comes off. And in harder environments, definitely do the volume dial too!
>>5. I didn’t get to try 2 balls at jumpers workshop because she crashed the jump during her first turnWhat a bummer that must have been! What is on her calendar coming up?
Tracy
Good morning! Hooray for agreat weather!
He is doing well with the lap turns! I think the whole session looked great and he got faster and faster throughout it. And it is extra awesome that he is ignoring the toy til cued: the toy was in the lap turn hand and he was perfect!!!
He didn’t have many real questions – when you did the single lap turns at the beginning, you had a little too much distance away from the wing on the right turns (second side) so he was not totally certain if he should go to the wing. He was a little hesitant at 1:1 because that cue to the wing didn’t have quite as much connection as the others.
And my only suggestion is a detail on the wing sends: keep using your directionals and wrap cues, but try not to use “go” – we want to protect “go” as the full on extension line when there is a jump.
And great job with the sends – one of the joys of the smaller working area is that you had to send him from further and ended up not running backwards at all: excellent!!!!
The tandem turns also look lovely! On the first several where you were doing the single lap turns, you can give him a little more room away fro the wing so he has room to drive in and turn – the first few were too close but then the last several had the perfect distance away from the wing for him. And then when you added the movement – wow! Lovely!! He is so balanced on the sends, the wraps, and the turning away that he doesn’t seem to have any questions here at all. And also ignoring the toy in your hand – remember when he was a baby pup and used to jump up for it? He looks great now.
>>it resulted in me showing some bad lines to Leo, especially for the rocking horse parts.>>
A little bit here and there, perhaps, for blocking the line a bit – but overall, your lines were good! To help him see the line more, you can rotate the wings 90 degrees so he sees the full wing – that can help give him perfect lines in a smaller space.
Great job on these! Fingers crossed for continued great weather!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I think I need to move to NC! I know Kama will find me a place to live, but from Hannah’s posts I see you have big bugs and spiders and ticks …. I don’t know if I can handle that …
Ha! No killer critters where I am in southwest Virginia!
>> In the mean time I will look around for another place to take classes that will let me do front sides of jumps and extension lines.
Perfect! Go fast! Feel the wind in your hair!
>> Altho that doesn’t help much with the ring crew Kryptonite. But maybe I can set up some group practices with friends to work on that in smaller pieces.
Yes! Group practices, and getting classmates to help and reward reward reward for going past people.
>>Flyball class?!?! Well, you haven’t been wrong about anything else, so maybe I’ll try it.>>
It is so fun and it would be amazing to see her do it!
>>I have often thought that Zippie visiting ring crew was as much about avoiding pressure from me.>>
That’s not what I see! Didn’t seem to be pressure related.
>[ Because she doesn’t really like people very much. But perhaps it doesn’t matter “why.” >>
It is possible she doesn’t know why either LOL!!
>>Do you think it would be useful to put other “weird” things in chairs? Big stuffed animal toys?
Yes, to begin the kryptonite games with easy weird stuff and we work up to weird people.
>>No new Kryptonite today because we didn’t run after all. Stuff happened as I was warming her up and I decided to scratch for the weekend. Zippie is fine, but people are really inconsiderate (had nothing to do with her or with FEO plans or anything like that).>>
GAH!!! What a bummer. I was looking forward to seeing her videos! Hopefully no one made it gross for you. Feel free to PM to vent it out.
Tracy
Hi!
>> Will NADAC allow a mat or cot in the 10 feet from the ring?
They allow crating on the dirt area near the ring so I was thinking of taking his bed there as a 2nd spot. This club is very friendly so not sure they say anything as I’m pretty sure the table I left my treats on was closer than 10 feet. >>That’s great!!!
>>They allow food in container in your pocket for runs but never figured how that was useful 🤣.>>
Ha!!! Do they allow you to whip out after you exit the ring and get 10 feet away? You can use it for Step 2 of the FEO ste0s, if so. If not… I dunno what it is for lol
>> Is there enough time to reward him, and ‘reheat’ him?
It was 8 mins between his last two NADAC Intro runs. I did take his water and treats to ring area to give between the two runs. I mainly try to cool him down. Usually his first run is better but I like being able to repeat and adjust. There would be more time with novice since more dogs.>>And a little volume dial game right before that 2nd run might help get him into the right state too!
>> I love how he was offering a paw shake when you went to take the leash off.
That was me asking for the left one when I take off his leash as he’s a little uncomfortable and seems to help keep him engaged. He added the other paw.>>Perfect! It was adorable!!!
>> They also had the interview with you in there. Like Hot Sauce, my toy Eskimo at age 2 had grade 2 luxating patella so after surgery I took her to rehab. They had under water treadmill and used some fitness for conditioning so I did a fitness class. During that class, I realized Lauren Langman’s amazing dog Blink had surgery for it too.>>
I have zero recollection of that interview LOL!!!! But that luxating patella fix was a real miracle for her 🙂
>>The UKI trial is using the agility gate app so that will be helpful. The number of dogs in his classes looks like only 10-13 and mainly tall. I only saw one 8 inch so glad Sunday is tall to small or he might have been 1st on the line. I did recognize one dog who trained in his class previously.>>
Keep me posted on how tomorrow’s fact-finding mission goes! I’ll be thinking about you two!
Tracy
Good morning!
This went well – it is a really hard skill and he is definitely sorting it all out! Yay! And the wings were set relatively close to the tunnel, which definitely adds challenge!He is much better turning to his right on the wing before the tunnel threadle (coming towards the camera) and I think he was perfect on all of those reps.
You also had really good handler one to support the threadles on that side: not how you turned and were moving very directly towards the tunnel entry you wanted.
Turning to his left (away from the camera) on the wing before the tunnel was MUCH harder – you were a little late at :17 and not as clear with the motion… but even the choo choo was hard with the tunnel there on that side!
But then he got it and was making that turn really well!!!! Good job breaking it down for him while also making sure you supported with the handling by turning towards the tunnel entry you wanted. Y toucan see the lightbulb on at 1:12 there – it is not as smooth as turning towards the camera, but still lovely!And he gets a DOUBLE GOLD STAR on the last 2 reps but doing the big race tracks into the tunnel in front of him… but them getting the tunnel threadle cue. YESSS! And it is even more impressive because he got it for both of you, which requires processing different movement styles. SUPER!
Well done here! On the next session, add more space between the tunnel and the wings, so he can have even more speed (but also more time to process handling).
Tracy
Good morning!
Nice work here!!
Yes, there was a little drifting in on the get out but not too badly and he was GREAT about not going to the jump when you wanted the go!
For the get out, to help prevent the drift, add some more speed as you do it – that was when you drifted towards the jump less. You had more speed on the get outs towards the end of the video and he was great! You can now add in the fancy cross as he is heading to the get out jump (the advanced level).
>>I also noticed he’s jumping up at my hands again, maybe because I was kind of confused which hand to hold it in.
Watching for when he jumped up at your hands – some of it was him being impatient as you were getting combobulated at the start and some of it seemed to be when you sent to the wing. So for both of those, use a line up cookie to get him into a sit so you get get your toy set where you want it, then connect, then send to the start wing. He was most jump when you were not that connected to him and didn’t use your leg to indicate the start wing – and he was not jumpy when you were clear with connection and leg, and on the go and get out cues.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi again!
This session went really well!
Good job running in close to the tunnel to get her driving ahead! Her rear crosses were a little wide but I am happy with happy that because we want her to LOVE driving ahead more than she loves rear crosses LOL! She was reading them nicely, only one error and that was when you were a little early on the cross on the last rep.>>She did go around the jump a couple of times.
I think you mean the jump after the rear cross? No worries! That is a super tight setup and she was going fast – so you can move that jump to a more natural line for her to be able to run fast on 🙂 When she did pick up that jump, you added a little decel and she found it nicely.
So overall, great job here! Keep emphasizing the go go go lines and throw in a rear cross now and then – she seems to really understand it now.
Tracy
Good morning!
Yes, I like the 5 foot distance and moving target (but we can change it again as she continues to develop her stride :)) She was a little surprised on the first rep but the 2nd rep was really strong! And great job helping her sort out the angled grid – she started off thinking it was NUTS but then got a lot more comfy by the end of the session, and the jumping looks strong! Yay!
You can revisit this once or twice a week, to keep the skills sharp 🙂Tracy
Good morning!
>> I’m not a member of a club .. I think it would prob help him a lot. Will think abt joining one.>>
100% yes! Getting him into some kind of regular group training will really help – otherwise, he is really only regularly exposed to those distractions at trials, where he has to do all the hard stuff without reinforcement.
>> Today I took him to a shopping mall and got him to do tricks and lead outs .. no problem but I did have food on me.>>
Good boy for doing all that in a new place! Next time, bring your reward station so you can do that with remote reinforcement and no food on you 🙂
>>Another thing .. I’ve been trying to think creatively .. I know that if I set his crate up at the startline .. he would run with me no problem. Do u think there’s anyway I could incorporate this into his start lines? Maybe I could bring the crate close .. break him .. run in .. take off leash .. connect and run? What do u think.>>
It is a possibility but it depends on the rules – how close is the crate allowed to the ring? And it is a good way to set him up for success… but it does not cover the training for ignoring the distractions and getting into the right state of focus and doing lead outs. So it is a game that can be incorporated but should not replace the training runs and all the other games. It is a tool for the toolbox, but you won’t want to rely on it as the mai thing or only thing because that means you are managing the situation more than training the situation.
>>Just to give u another idea abt Sparky’s super nose. Today when I arrived home I drove into my garage which is a brick structure . I took him to the back door to let him into the house .. took off his leash and he belted out the garage door .. he never does this. I called him back .. nothing.. I went out to the street to look .. no one there and then I noticed him eating a piece of biscuit that a bird must have dropped .. I was astounded. So the point to my story is .. all the bits of food that people drop before entering the ring is really hard for him to resist>>
That makes my point about how it is critically important to work the ‘ignore the kryptonite’ games because even in moments where he is incredibly reliable, such as going into the house or coming out of a crate, he might see or smell something and that causes him to be unable to respond.
>>Ok so thinking more .. I could use the crate game .. release to a jump and start putting food on the side snd get him to ignore it?>>
Absolutely! But I would take the jump out of it for now and just have him release to you. And start with food that is not easily accessible. This would qualify as a Kryptonite game because food is definitely a kryptonite for him 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Watching the video… this is actually really really good!! We are on a bit of a fact-finding mission here, and we have some big facts now 🙂
I know agility is an emotional sport and we all look at the things that didn’t go right… but overall, as an outside and full-caffeinated eye: I see a MASSIVE improvement in every way and one kryptonite that she needs to learn about.
So first, the good stuff:
Engagement on the line. Ability to hold the stay with engagement. The fastest I have seen her on her releases and immediate engagement on the releases. SUPER fast on the lines.The only thing that bit you? She doesn’t know how to run past people, she finds it very distracting. She told us that when she couldn’t run past the instructor on the teeter, and she rammed the point home in all 3 runs here – running past people moves way up on the Kryptonite chart, higher than food smells right now. Note the 2nd run – all good til she had to do the tunnel-ring crew discrimination – she chose ring crew. Oops! (Side note – check out the way-too-big response from the ring crew person, it is both weird and hilarious, and that might be part of the reason why Zippie struggles with that: People are WEIRD and she is not wrong about that.)
>>I think you’ll say that I should have gotten her more aroused – we should have jogged out across the field
Yes, totally can, but she was an engaged girlie – the long walk was not the issue, imo.
>>Second run I think I was even more discombobulated juggling the leash, the toy, a last treat, and the startline right at the gate, but thank goodness easy straight line to the tunne—oh, guess not. But she recovered faster and did Tunnel Jump Jump then we ran to the exit. Ok, that was a little better.>>
Ring crew distraction.>>I think I lost her near the end (and only briefly) because long gentle curving lines are NOT WHAT WE PRACTICE EVER which is a huge pet peeve I’ll probably go to my grave with (and without a Q in Nov JWW). But that’s for another day.>>
I don’t think it was the long line, it was the struggle to avoid the stuff outside the ring (people, etc) without obstacles right there and without you in front of her. And yes – I agree 10,000% that you need her in classes where she takes the front side of jumps in extension on long gorgeous lines because she needs to learn that skill and she needs to feel the fun of running in extension. Backside and threadles and wraps are interesting but truly not needed for dogs running in Novice. (For example: I have 3 novice inexperienced dogs and they are working on fast line skills with some turns thrown in – very few backside or threadles).
>>I think in all 3 runs I could have led out, or taken a deep breath before starting as she wasn’t going anywhere, and I think I’ll try that tomorrow (taking a breath after leash off and allowing her to shake if she needs to). >>
Yes you can totally do that! But again, you did nothing wrong and she did nothing wrong… we just need to work on that big piece of Kryptonite!
>>I think it may be a little easier tomorrow as the classes will be larger, and it won’t feel so rushed, and all the courses tomorrow I can start from the marked start line and do a big circle around to the exit.>>
Since she is not likely to have watched the video about ignoring ring crew overnight 🙂 try to plan all of your runs to stay as far from ring crew as possible and run for the exit before she has to turn back to pass that big distraction. Set her up to have success there and if she struggles, just recognize it as currently-unaddressed Kryponite and call her and run the other way.
>>I am really happy with the start line engagement tho, she’s really looking up at me and I love it!
YES! THIS IS A MAJOR SHIFT! Love it!!!
And speaking of fast lines with people distractions… I see that Argus is offering beginner flyball classes. You should consider that 🙂 You might never want to play flyball, but the training is incredibly value:
– learning to run independent lines in extension and without the momma
– learning to ignore ALL sorts of distractions (food, people, dogs, noise, etc) and focus on ‘the job’ (My food driven papillon successfully ignored ring-side, nose level pepperoni pizza at this first tournament!)Ball drive not required and tug drive not required, and the classes are not noisy LOL – but so much fun to be had!!
Keep me posted on how today goes and let me know if she reveals any more kryptonite 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>What week do we cover human chill? I think I need a remedial course
The trick to chill will be standing still or moving slowly, and counting to 3 in your head slowly while waiting to see what he does 🙂 I am sensing Agility U #TeamNoChill merch this summer.
>>I’m a bit unclear on what the difference is between that and remote reinforcement? Are they interchangeable?
The cookie-free pattern games are an element of remote reinforcement – the difference between the pattern game and the volume dial tricks is that with the pattern games we are allowing the dog to offer engagement as a way of cuing us to cue the pattern trick.
The cookie-free pattern games and the volume dial games are not interchangeable in the moment, but are both good tools to have in the toolbox – the pattern game is used as you move from the entry to the ring to the start line, if you see he needs to assess the environment. If you see he needs to get more aroused (or less aroused) then the volume dial games might be the go-to in that moment.
So just like the cookie pattern games – we start it, yes, with a cue (get it cookie or the well-loved trick) but then we wait – when he offers engagement, we cue the same well-loved trick and praise as we are moving to the line. Then you wait – he offers engagement, then we cue the trick again. Now it is possible that he never looks away and that is great!
The volume dial doesn’t wait for any offered engagement and doesn’t really allow the dog to assess the environment – instead, we just cue a bunch of tricks in a row.
On the video, he was not really needing to assess the environment, so he did really well! In a more difficult environment, you let him look away, then when he looked back – cue that happy fast heeling that he loves. Then after a step or two, get quiet again and let him look away.
For the pattern games, try not to mix in a lot of different tricks – we want it to be a well-loved trick that he can predict, rather than anything unpredictable at that point.
Since he was quite perfect here, add a little distraction action – go someplace else, or put something different/weird in the environment, and see how it goes! Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Exit wing is what I was thinking. So you don’t think there would be a need for either a different, or an additional verbal, to tell the dog after landing to do a sharp right turn (in this example) and go back across the plane of the jump versus not doing that (ie just a basic backside slice)? (I add my turn command to say turn away from me after taking the jump and go back across the plane on the exit side but it is one I am wondering about)>>
So you mean the difference between a backside push where the handler does a FC on the landing side to head back where they came from, for example, versus something like a German turn (backside push slice to a wrapped blind cross exit) where dog and handler are running forward past the takeoff side.
You can absolutely add another verbal – such as the push verbal then a wrap exit verbal for the German – this is going to be necessary when you are way behind the dog for example, When you are ahead and able to handle it? No need 🙂 And for the turns where you stay on landing side? We can handle it and add a name call, or you can use directionals as well if your position is really far away.
>>would you be relying on the direction of your motion to add that additional information to tell the dog whether to go back across the plane of the jump on the exit wing versus not on landing?>>
If I am really visible to the dog? Yes. If I am miles away? Nope, I would add more verbals in that moment.
So basically at that stage is becomes compound cues: backside plus exit directional but that is really only important if your position is waaaay out of the picture. So far we have not seen the need for separate, distinct verbals on normal courses here or in Europe.
Really great session here!! Sometimes the Advanced is even easier because of the motion. It looks like she didn’t even have any questions 🙂 YAY!
And even in a small space, your energy was great! Both of my young dogs just came running over to watch the video, for real!>>warmed up each side with just a single wrap.
That was good, it set the tone for the session.
>>Watching the video i notice I am late with every command other than ‘tunnel’. >>
Yes, you can be sooner with the wrap verbals – as soon as you see her nose appear from the tunnel exit, start it. My guess is that your timing will be better when you can take this outside, because you will have more room to get her name and then the verbal out (she will have more room too, more speed, which makes it harder for her to respond correctly because SPEEEEEED is so fun 🙂 )
The only other thing to add to this is 2 tunnels in a row: tunnel, tunnel, then wrap. That way she is not learning the pattern of tunnel-wrap, she is listening for cues. Plus, tunnel-tunnel makes it a little harder to gather the collection for the wrap!
>>Have a couple of contacts questions for you if you don’t mind.
I love obsessing on contact training!
>>For teaching running whose method do you you follow?
I follow a combination of Jordan Biggs (she teaches her method on her site, on Clean Run, and here on Agility U), the European instructor of RDW whose name is escaping me right now because I have not had enough coffee (3 names, it will come to me shortly) and my own training twists because no method for RDW works for all dogs 🙂 So I have used ideas from them, put my now spin on it and stolen some flyball ideas because we do a LOT of back foot targeting for flyball box turns!
I also made up my own way of fading the targets used and bringing into the NFC ring at trials, because I am a weirdo hahaha
So the 3 young dogs all have a RDW and they al had slightly different approaches to it.
>>How would you teach a 2o2o these days? the nose touch method or something else? I don’t think I want to do nose touch, I want to get a more neutral back position relative to the ground than I have gotten with the nose touch given part of the focus with it is front feet really close to the end of the board.>>
Nose touch-ish 🙂 The old school nose touch has really fallen out of favor – people say all sorts of things about it being physically harmful to the dogs but that is simply not true. I think it has fallen out of favor for other reasons 🙂 The initial back position is a great weight shift and then can transition to a neutral position.(FYI – running contacts are FAR HARDER on the dog than the 2o2o training, because of all the repetition on the actual contact)
However, most of us just don’t want to spend that much time with the actual nose touching the target or ground anymore, or trying to maintain it LOL!
So I have the dogs target something on the ground with a head bob, to provide the focal point, weight shift, and to develop the criteria. I don’t have the dog actually touch it, and they don’t need to touch it a thousand times 🙂 And then I use a lot of travel plank to help teach all of the independence. Then it goes onto the contact, with back chaining (I leave the target in for a long time). I used this method in teeter training for the dogs big enough to do a 2o2o on a teeter (which has also fallen out of favor without any evidence why, other than people like to rip the dogs off the teeter before letting them get into position and then spend a lifetime fighting about criteria LOL!)
Hope that helps! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
