Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
I think he is doing really well here – the first 6 passes all looked good (you were a little too close to the last jump from what I could see especially on #6, so you can be about 10 feet from the last jump).
Bearing in mind how challenging it is – he made it look pretty easy on the more obvious line, but then you saw how hard it was when you tightened it. The tighter line plus the fatigue from being a bunch of reps into the session caused him to add strides – we prefer he ‘bounce’ like he did when it was a little more open, so for now keep it open. Then, over time, you and inch it straighter – probably takes a few weeks, but no rush because he is so young. Last summer in the CAMP class, we had an adult BC who is similar to Ronan do the entire progression from 3 open jumps to 5 jumps at full height and tight line – it took the adult dog about 10 weeks to get it. So since Rony Pony is still young, I figure it will take you 6 months or so to get it straight and the bars taller. But that side-to-side bounce he is doing here is FABULOUS and so much more coordinated than most dogs his age š YAY!!! So keeping it open for now is right on track and actually ahead of schedule.Great job!
TracyHi!
Yes, there is a lot of running on this one, it starts to feel like a course even though it is only a tunnel and some wings š
>> My homework is just getting more speed. She shows some. She loves the turn and burn.
In typical Tali fashion, she picked up speed as she got more comfortable with the setup. That is fine, because I rather that the dog thinks about something new and THEN goes fast, rather than flings herself into things and thinks later on LOL! Keep throwing the rewards and staying connected, and you will continue to see more and more speed! I liked what she was doing here!
>>. I tried to get her excited and instead of my normal dog food, I got cheese puffs out.
Ah yes! Because she is working for food which can be calming to dogs, don’t use only dog food to train š Use crazy high value stinky delicious stuff (mixed in with the dog food to pick up the good smells) so she is insane for it š
>> But I need to get her less clingy and driving to the jumps. I had to really push out to the wings. I left one blooper. They were like that that. I feel Iām looking at her. She did good and did the exercises but I definitely need more confidence. The race tracks, she doesnāt like>>
There were lots of really great moments and I definitely see a few things that will help:
She really does well with the tandem turns!!! On the 1st 2 reps you did as a lap turn where you hustled to face her, and they went well! You can also do those as tandem turns, so you don’t have to rotate towards her and can keep moving forward. :26 was a tandem turn – I think she needs a different hand cue because you were using a ‘go’ arm and she didn’t turn til after you cut in behind her. I like using 2 hands for tandem turns, so the dogs can see it coming (the hands turns them away) before we cut in behind them.Lap turns through the race track like at 1:46 look good, she really likes those!!!
I think the tandem or lap turn will be good moves for the starfish here for speed – You did a BC on the tunnel exit there at :59 and1:17 but she had to wait for you and slowed down. To keep her speed going, you can send her to the tunnel entry from further away to get the blind so sh ecan keep moving, or do a tandem to keep hr moving š
About those left turns and her being a bit sticky:
she definitely goes faster and is more independent when you have your arms down and you run run run, rather than point. You can see it on the ‘race track’ left and right turns when your arms are down and you are running (like at :56, 1:11 and 2:15 ) versus when your arm is up and pointing forward like at 1:03 (she ended up thinking you wanted a blind).Also, she is a righty š So on those left turns, keep your hands down and back, to let her see big connection. At 2:25 and 2:48, connection was not as clear so she was trying to default to the easier side (right turns).
You don’t need to push too much with motion, like at 2:06 where you pushed into her and pushed her off the wing. I think keeping connection and running near her will help a lot, and reward her a ton for left turns to help make them really valuable because they are harder. The connection might feel more ‘sticky’ and harder to convince her of right now, but that is young-dog-stuff that will go away as she gets more experienced.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Oh lord this flowsheet is causing way more inner turmoil than I expected. Part of the reason Iāve been so hesitant to do anything outside of the yard is because Carrieās yard is so hard for us and forever Iāve felt like if I canāt get it there, I shouldnāt ask for it anywhere else. While rationally I understand that the pool is our biggest challenge, it makes me very insecure in moving forward.>>
Or, to look at it differently, Carrie’s yard has the biggest possible distraction and the biggest history of struggle with that. In fact, other locaitons might be FAR easier.
>>You pointed out missing jumps and the run around the table. Missing jumps consistently happens in practice also. Iām hoping we can work this in camp someā¦ but we also donāt have opportunities to run full courses unless its a trial or seminar. Plus Carrie will be out this summer if Roulez gets pregnant so Iāll be course building alone.>>
One thing to consider is entering some USDAA or UKI at home trials, maybe the 60×40 ring for jumpers etc – even if you don’t record the runs, you will get courses to work and teach him to find lines, which canthen be built up to remote reinforcemen too. CB and Elektra got a lot better at finding lines when I starting doing the At Home trials. I don’t always record the runs, but I do train on them when I can.
>> Very rarely do I practice the table. His teeter really hasnāt been worked either because Iāve been working this stuff.>>
The stages of FEO can also be individualized for obstacles – so if an obstacle hasn’t been worked on, don’t ask for it at trials. Otherwise there will be errors and rehearsals in the trial ring that can be harder to overcome.
>>Now I just feel really conflicted and donāt know where to begin. I felt like his ring time looked the same if not better than Carrieās yard but also better than most places weāve been, but I also donāt want to miss any steps for him.>>
I think the top priority is then to get him to find the lines in training on simple wide open courses – like setting up an Open JWW course, no fancy backsides or threadles. Then when he can do that (finding lines of jumps and tunnels), that skill can go back into trials and both of you will be in a better mental state to run those courses.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>OK, I havenāt been doing this so will start this routine at my next trial which is the first weekend of June.Perfect! It should help him be more prepared for the environment at trials.
>>Oh, my I forgot all about that lead out. I will for sure do it next time.
I think he will like it – just do a short lead out so he doesn’t break the stay.
>>Ok, I was so excited that he was doing the course I forgot to reward him. I will try very hard to reward more when he is doing good.
That is the hardest thing, right? Rewarding when things ar egoing well is so hard but so important!
>> (no classes here)
Do you have a training group, or friends who can help add trial-like distractions?
>>So, for the trial first weekend in June, I should pull him from all runs that arenāt FEO. (FAST and T2B) (need to pull regular runs)>
I would definitely consider this, especially for the first runs of the weekend.
>>Then there is a local trial that I could enter him in FEO only the second weekend in June. (Not entered yet)>>
>>The third weekend is a local NADAC where he can run everything FEO. (Iām Trial Sec)>>
>>The fourth weekend UKI at Blue Springs all classes FEO (not entered yet)>>This is all perfect! And in the NADAC and UKI runs, you might be moving into the ‘real’ runs, which is great for venues like NADAC and UKI where there are lots of runs available each day š
>>Did I miss commenting on anything else to work on? Thanks for all your feedback. Do you offer private feedback after the June 1 deadline that I could buy?>>
I think the Find My Face game will help him know where to look on course even if there is a disconnection. And the cartoon leadouts should be a fun game to add as well š In June, we start the CAMP class so that can be a place to keep building skills and getting feedback! Keep me posted!
TracyAh! Being in season would explain things, plus add in a little upset belly. I am sure that contributed GREATLY to her day on Saturday. Yay!
T
Hi!
>>Any suggestions other than looking at her to keep her path out and not coming into me. I mean when weāre going to the jump and Iām trying to stay over,she comes into me and then back out around the wing. Lateral running distanceā¦.that Iāll need.Two other things you can try –
take the bar out, and do it on just one wing – see if she can stay parallel to the outside of the wing (and still drop the reward as if there was a bar there as you move away :))
You can add lots of lateral distance on just the wing! The bar has a LOT of value, so taking it out for a bit will refresh the value of the parallel path behavior. You can also try using the opposite arm but I don’t think you will need it in the long run.Then when you add the bar back, rotate the jump 90 degrees so it is perpendicular to where it is now – so it is more of a 180 than a backside. All 3 wings will be in a line. Then you can gradually inch it back over to the backside position over the course of a few sessions, while still maintaining the understanding. Let me know if that makes sense š
Have fun!
TracyHi! He is doing SO MUCH BETTER! The final stages are about getting into the harder environments likes classes, seminars, trials and working the games at the line with reinforcement (and 2 leashes so he can’t speed away :)) I put together some flow charts, I will go through them in the chat in about 90 minutes and then they will be posted š
Hi!
>>I guess I didnāt really feel like I was blowing passed the steps because heās done a good bit of seminars, run feo and ACT courses but my toys werenāt exactly hidden.>>
Bingo – lots of experience in Step 1, maybe a little in Step 2, in training environments. But very little experience in Step 1 in trials, and no experience in Step 2 and 3 – moving straight to step 4.
>>How will I know when to transition because lord knows I can stay at one step forever?
You will know when the behavior you get in the ring matches the behavior you get (and are happy with) at home. He enters with ring with engagement and can respond quickly to line up cues? Holds his stay? Finds the jumps on his line? Hits contacts and weaves? And so on – the trial runs should look pretty much like home training runs before you go to the next step.
>>I didnāt feel like I was having signs of stress in my runs but I donāt want to create stress either or shut him down.>>
Rather than discuss it as “stress”, which is an emotionally charged term and can be applied in weird ways (there is stress is everything, some of it is good stress!): think of it as arousal, latency, and accuracy. His arousal is lower (or higher, depending on the context, but not easily optimized), he is not as fast to respond to cues, and his accuracy wanes: looking around, missing jumps on the line, running past the table, missing contacts, etc. So while it might not match the classic signs of stress (yawns, sniffing, avoidance, etc) the behaviors we see in the ring match behaviors that stress can bring on, and the behaviors in the ring don’t match what we see at home. In the days before training in the ring, we would have to just deal with it and hope for the best (didn’t work out all that well!) but nowadays we can sit at each level of the training runs til the dog is fully confident and acting the same (or better!) than what you get in ‘home’ training š
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
Looking at the Mac, if you right click on the page, you will get a window that has a print page option – so you can then print it with with Save As PDF option.On the iPad: if you press and hold on the text in the thread, a window comes up with Copy – Look Up – Share. Click Share. Then another window comes up and you can either “save to files” or Drive (if you swipe left on the icons) or swipe left and you will see More (3 dots) which can give you more options for saving it š
>>Will the Forum still be there after today? Can I go back and view their videos and print my feedback, later?>>
Yes, totally! The forum is here forever!
Tracy
Hi!
>>One question with the wing wrap straight out of the tunnel ā Would it be the go command before she enters the tunnel and then the wrap verbal while she is in the tunnel (or exiting)? that is what I have been trying to do but wondering.>>
This will depend on the dog and how she naturally exits the tunnels – if she exits the tunnels looking straight down the line naturally, you probably don’t need the go š If she is more likely to turn and look at you? Then yes, add the Go. I have 2 dogs that need the Go and 1 dog that does not need it there. If you use it, the Go happens before they enter the tunnel (at least a meter before) and then generally the wrap cue happens while they are in the tunnel and no later than exiting.
On the video – she did really well here! You can say go more frequently especially when you are lateral or behind, to keep supporting the line. If you get quiet, especially if the Go happens while she is in the tunnel, you might have to rely on body language – that is fine for when you are close enough to the line and easily ahead, but a repeated verbal will be helpful when you are not as much in the picture. So you can say go while she is in the tunnel, but then say it again at least once when she exits (and when you are behind her, say it a couple more times :))
>.She is figuring out her striding to the jump bunp on the various reps, changing it some.
That is because the distance was changing. She will see the distances on a jump in a grid first, so it should be fine when you use a bar here.
I think you can add in the Rear Cross game to this one too! Great job!
TracyHi!
>> I definitely need the bar to stay overā¦I would follow the jump and then set in at the last minute. I couldnāt keep her out on the path. And she really just wanted to go around the jump.>>
Because she is new to the backsides, there are some things we can do to help her out:
– drop the reward in as soon as she arrives at the entry wing to help develop the default behavior of jumping the bar, rather than waiting to see if she takes it then rewarding (or helping her with handling) – waiting and helping get her looking at you more.
– you can use a longer bar too, which is easier to come over, this one looked a little short LOL!
– angle the jump so that the entry wing is pointing more towards the start wing and the exit wing is closer to the camera/further from the tunnel. That way, as she comes around the entry wing, she will see the bar a lot better and come over it more easily.Angling the jump will also help her find the entry wing more easily – the other thing that will help her is more connection – you were looking ahead so she was looking at you. On the first several reps, you used your running line to help her so it was when you moved over that it was harder.
to see the power of connection on the backsides as you move forward, watch :37-:38 and the following reps, and also later at 149: as you moved up the line there, you were not looking at her so she came into you. When you reached the jump, you connected and she went to the backside. The connection turns your upper body to the line, so you can connect to her eyes sooner (as soon as she exits the start wing) so you are connecting the whole time and running up the line.
She did do really well on the countermotion exits, so now you can move forward even more!
>.I just wonāt have the tunnel distraction but it really wasnāt.>>
the visual of the tunnel *might* have been a tiny distraction playing into why she had trouble finding the bar, so that is even more of a good reason to take the tunnel out for now š
Great job! Have fun with this and the starfish game!
Tracy
Hi! Lots of great work here!
Backside video – he is finding the backside wing really well! The further away you get from the entry wing, the more you will want to connect, so add a little more connection to his eyes when you are across the bar. And keep dropping the lotus ball in really early, just as he is arriving at the wing, so he automatically looks for it. I think you were waiting a little too long so he was considering going past it on a few reps. You can add more of your motion to this now (jogging!), And since the backyard is challenging, to get more engagement you can use a toy or a ball, or tie the lotus ball to a line and use it like a toy by dropping it then moving it around for him to chase š
Tunnel threadles:
Yes. that first rep was unclear, but everything was much clearer after that and he was responding beautifully!
You can use a wrap verbal on the wing before the tunnel threadle to help him know it is coming and give your kiss kiss verbal sooner (as soon as he arrives at the wrap wing).
>>On the threadle I felt like I didnāt know what I was supposed to be doing with my upper body.
I personally like using the outside arm on these, across the body. Your feet go towards the tunnel entry you want, and your opposite arm can be up by the dog-side shoulder – it is an easy cue for the dog to see especially when you are behind him.
Lateral lead outs – He did a great job figuring out the commitment on the first part of the session, and you did a great job adjusting your mechanics in the 2nd part! He looked really good!! Two little suggestions: watch him as you lead out so he doesn’t stand up (and definitely look at the stay before the release, and reward lots) and also, connect before the release (look at him and not at the jump) and give the cues while being connected to him and not looking forward at the jump.
For the handling for jump 2, when you have more room you will be able to move through a serp on landing side of 2 (when you are on takeoff side of 1, or do a FC and run (when you are on the landing side of 1). This is a good one to take outside, so you can add the handling for jump 2 as well.
Rear crosses – I think this is a perfect one for outside, because being able to run will get the Go happening better, and will also help you set up the RC better. Doing it at a walk made it harder to show what you wanted. On the go, you can accelerate more outside for sure, but your verbal was energetic here and it helped! You will want to be able to run on all of these, so it will work a lot better outside. And yes, left/right for the rear works better than silence or Go, but also the physical cues are important. Bearing in mind that you will have more room outside, you had a bit of a Goldilocks and the 3 Bears thing happening as you sorted out the rear cross timing:
Too early: At 1:00 and 2:01 you were early so you pushed him off the line
Too late: At 1:32 and 1:40 and 2:16 you were late – you moved forward towards the “go” wing for too long, he was already on his right lead turning right, when you started to show RC info.
Just right! You got onto the rear cross pressure earlier (but not too early :)) at 1:47 and 2:27, so he was passing you and seeing the bar, but also before he made the decision about which way to turn.
When you take it outdoors, you can give yourself an extra 10 feet of space, s you can show the rear cross diagonal (running more to the center of the bar as he is exiting the start wing) sooner without pushing him off the line.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
Tracy>>Wheeewww I got to sleep in this morning to a whopping 6:30 š“
6:30 is practically midday!
>>I need to keep hearing this. Iām hoping to do UKI in a couple of weeks so I can bring the toy in and do a ton of feo. Iām toying with the idea of the USDAA regional with some FEO thrown in because itās more chill and generally a supportive environment.
Write it on a post it and put it on your bathroom mirror! UKI allows NFC ni any class. The USDAA regional allows it in all non-regional tournament classes. I am bugging everyone about skipping steps: going from Step 1 (FEO just like home, visible toy) to Step 4 (full runs, all the things, no reward in the ring) is incredibly hard for the dog and can be stress-inducing for most dogs… especially if they have not yet worked to steps 3 and 4 (running sequences and courses without reinforcement on the handler) in training classes or seminars.
>>My goal is to run him in something at the open-idk if thatās unrealistic or not but I need something to work towards>>
It is realistic, but it is an outcome goal. Process goals will get you to the outcome goals.
>> I really liked him in between my feet- but 8.5 minutes is too long for anything. I got him out at 7 dogs before with only 2 height changesā¦
7 dogs in a standard course is about 7-8 minutes, and each height change is about 2 minutes, so you might be able to narrow it to more like moving to the ring area with 4 or 5 dogs if there are height changes.
>>I did get the down but what started my spiral is that I asked for a through my legs to come on my side. He didnāt get that correct and just did the down.>>
In that moment, just go with it – he was able to respond to *something* even it if was not perfect. I think the bending over to cue it is a bit too much pressure there which is why you got the down.
>>When you say cartoon crouch do you mean like at home or is it something I did on the runs?
At about :30 you moved away and crouched a bit, and bent youer knees at hthe start of the run. He seemed to like it and was fast and focused on the release! Moving away takes the pressure off. And when you bend your waist or knees, lean away from him, not towards him.
>> Weāve been going directly to cheese. He stands patiently for me to put his leash on- like weāve done it that way for centuries š¤£
and that is fine – leash on, run to cheese. Plant the reward station nearby or have someone standing by so it is easy access if there are challenging dogs around.
>>Iām struggling as mention with the mental game. I canāt control the environment and just part of my having reactive dogs was always being aware of whatās around.
Step 1 of all good mental prep programs is always to focus on what you CAN control, not what you CANNOT control. You can be aware, you can control your plan, your responses. You cannot control the other dogs, the environment. etc. Focus on what you can control.
>> This layout was another thing that stressed me. It wasnāt super easy to get away on Saturday. Sunday was much better because everyone left and I could get out. He was also less reactive Sunday because no Irish setters scared him.>>
So you can note the environment and then plan how you are going to respond to it – getting to reward nearby, or having someone there, or running away fast, etc.
>>If you have any š§ prep with instructors that you recommend, lmk. I donāt do the best with independent studies.
Kathy Keats might have something, let me take a look! And maybe Kathleen Oswald too?
>>Interacting with feedback gives me dopamine as opposed to none on my own.>>
My guess is that is it oxytocin and/or serotonin more than dopamine for most of it (dopamine is really not always our friend LOL!!!!)
Tracy
Hi!
>> On our way home from a RV trip to Florida for a mini family reunion. The 4 sisters were finally all able to get there at the same time to spread my Momās ashes. It actually all worked out well, Motherās Day weekend and the first year anniversary of her passing, it all just seemed right ā¤ļø
That is so amazing, I am so glad you were able to do it!!
>> Lots of opportunities for Pattern Games and instant focus with the car keys, quick hand touches and sits in all sorts of new places with all sorts of new distractions.
Yay! I am sure he was great and got lots of reinforcement in all sorts of new environments š
>>Changing subjects on youā¦.do you have any interest/availability for āseminar tour of New Englandā? Jennifer Johnson and I are trying to figure out how to work with you on person! She loved the seminar she attended in Florida. >>
A seminar tour of New England would be super fun! The challenge is finding dates. Is there a time frame you are looking at? Winter makes things really hard in terms of planning travel, so maybe spring/summer/fall?
Thanks! Safe travels home!
Tracy
