Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
>> I’m wondering if there is an element of “Depletion” of self control going on.
Posh has 4 classes/lessons/week. We Rarely, if ever, make all 4 events. My thinking is to get her to as many places as possible, experience different people, places, equipment. There are other reasons as well, but they don’t apply here. Then we might have a trial or something else on the weekend. Perhaps it’s too much.>>If you are ending up at 4 of 7 days or 5 of 7 days doing agility in a week, then yes, I think it is too much for mind and body 🙂 There is not enough time for training to solidify and for the mind & body to rest when there is more coming very soon. If there is a trial on the weekend, doing less during the week is helpful. And if there is no trial during the weekend, 4 times a week is a lot.
Now, you can train stuff like concepts pretty often or do cross training, fitness, body work pretty frequently – but running agility a lot is not recommended.>>Looks like I need to do what you said with her around this person before class or we take our turn. Sometimes that’s hard. People coming in late etc.>>
Yes it can be hard because we cannot control the environment or other peoples’ behavior. But, knowing that environment overrides agility for her, you can take the same approach. If the environment is fine, no surprises? Do the agility 🙂 If something has changed in the environment, change your plan and work on the pattern game or other games during your turn, and don’t do the agility. If you have an instructor who is NOT on board with that? That is a good class to skip for now 🙂
>>When I’m walking the course planning possible reward, I don’t know where the people will be. They often run out to reset bars then pick a spot to be as I’m lining Posh up, or even going out while I’m running to take a spot. It can be hard to micromanage that activity. I don’t want to be disruptive or disrespectful to the instructor or other students.>>
You can’t really manage what they do, but since the alarm barking is s a sign of discomfort, then it is important to ask people to move slowly and explain to them why (and bribe them with food). And if you have a reinforcement plan and you notice the environment has changed? Change your reinforcement plan. So say your plan was to do a short sequence and reward a dog walk, but suddenly the new guy with the golden shows up? New plan!
As an instructor, I don’t find it to be disrespectful or disruptive when someone wants help getting their dogs happy 🙂 And as a student… if the instructor doesn’t want to help get my dog happy, then I am less likely to go to those classes. If your turn needs to be working on environment stuff, that should be fine – you don’t need to run the course, if you spend your two minutes working on handling the environment. Instructors don’t like it if people spend their turns working on environment stuff and THEN want a turn on the course LOL
>>So let’s say she runs by someone and does a slight woof as she runs by, reward her then for keep coming with me or after the next obstacle. If I reward right away is that rewarding her for barking?>>
Two thoughts on this: generally when working with anxiety, the food does not reward the barking because it is a different ‘realm’ of learning (classical rather than operant, although there are always elements of both happening)
First, if someone is close enough that she *might* woof – change you plan so she is not that close. And do your best to reward before she woofs at them. If she woofs at them, she is too close. That is hard to control in agility.
Which bring us to the second point: That woof is not a fully operant behavior, it is more reflexive because she is anxious. So if you can get cookies or toys to her in the proximity of a trigger, she is going to generally feel better about the person and woof at them less. And because there might be an operant element: yes, reward her for continuing on course with you. The other option is to NOT reward, which might cause her to leave you to go bark at the person. So even if you reward for her passing the person even if there is a little woof, you are building value for passing the trigger and continuing on, rather than leaving you and getting more explosive in the reaction.
>>You can do short bursts of sequences with no reinforcement on you – but that is less important and lower on the priority list than training the skills of engagement and getting her less anxious about the people nearby.”
This statement is SO meaningful to me! Sometimes I feel overwhelmed with so much to do work on with Posh that I don’t know what to do next and get bogged down.>>You can make a list, in priority order! Focus and engagement games? Top of the list! Weave poles or Threadles? Bottom of the list LOL!
>> He’s a guy who’s unaware of what’s going on around him what his dog is doing etc, and he has a Golden R. At first I was anxious, with him coming in late I didn’t have much time to pattern game Posh around him. She didn’t even want to play, respond with anything at first. But we worked through it as best we could. I made sure I went 3rd, so I could warm her up while previous dog ran. He happened to hang behind everyone with his dog on leash while we were at the start line. I went full guns with treats and balls and although she was definitely aware he was there we worked through that too. The only thing she did was a slight ‘woof’ as she passed by Kodie on our first sequence.
Sometimes the hardest thing is pulling out the toolbox, seeing what in that toolbox is working right then, when there’s limited time, or the environment changes on us.>>Those environmental changes are cues for us humans to change our plan in the moment. You were focused on the agility, but you don’t need to do the agility – she is already very good at the agility! When something like that happens, you can 100% shift your focus to comfort in the environment. That means playing games near and in the ring, and not running the course. The woof at Kodie is a sign of her discomfort, because Kodie is not exactly new or unknown to her 🙂 Kodie is an excellent dog trainer and I am sure she will understand and support the priority shift, so you can ask if you can use your turn on course to just work the environment and not the sequence. Your sequence work will be much easier and improved when you have worked the environment stuff first 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Vimeo won’t let me see the video- maybe it is private? And yes, if the weaves were solid in color and the dogs are not used to that, they dogs might indeed think they are hexed!
T
Good morning!
Have a great day today! And yes, according to my husband, kryptonite and Dr. Strange do not go together hahahaha but they are all the same to me 🙂She did reallg well here, she was kind of on the lower end if the arousal curve (she was relatively calm, but that is good!) but still a little challenged by the environment. I would never have known that the water sends her into crazy mode!!!!!
You can add in more challenge – taking the leash off and letting her offer engagement, doing higher arousal tricks, instant focus, etc. What would she do if there was someone IN the pool? Or spraying hose?
Have fun today and keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
>> I have a tendency to get stuck in training and not make things harder, so here was the one time I moved too fast. >
It is fine to make things harder, but then the dogs guide us as to whether it was correct to do it or if we need to dial it back. I count the # of errors in the session: 1 error? Ok, noted, change nothing, try again. 2 errors in the session (not just in a row)? Too hard, dial it back. Most of the time we make it harder and it is fine – but counting errors keeps us on track if we make it too hard.
She did really well on the serp session here! One of the top priorities is that you can run run run on the serps, and it looks like you were really hustling here. So now I get to bug you a little about mechanics 🙂 I think on most of the reps, the serp arm was late. Having the arm extended back in serp position gives her the whole picture – I think you had it back relatively on time at :04, :17 and :34 where your serp arm was back when she was halfway between the wing and jump. I think it can be even a stride earlier.
But on some of the other reps, like a :10, :13, :20, :24, you were pointing to the center of the bar then as she approached the bar, you moved the arm back to the serp position. The serp position cues the 2nd turn, so on those reps she had to adjust last minute on those and was not always successful. Part of it was that you were switching the toy to the other hand, which made the arm later and toy later, so she hit the wing on those reps (:10 and :24).
So as you revisit this to inch the jump back to being straight, keep reminding yourself to have your serp arm back nice and early to cue the double turn. Those reps looked great!!
The get out reps looked great too! There was one rep where yo stopped moving (at the beginning) which causes your feet to turn and cues a rear cross – but the rest had movement and looked great! And she seemed to have no trouble with the non-get-out reps other than judging you for running directly towards nothing hahaha! So on the next revisit of this one, add in the Advanced level blind or front: as soon as her head turns to the get out jump, begin the cross. She looks ready for that challenge.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I think her a-frame is a good one too. There are a couple of European handlers who also teach good running a-frame classes: Katarina Podlipnik comes to mind!T
Hi! It looks like she stayed behind you on the first rep of the line up, then leg weaved for the 2nd one? Either way – doing it as FEO is great because it helps transfer the behavior to the ring! Yay! A few more FEO runs like this will help solidify it and then you can use whichever is easier (the leg weave or the line up from behind you :))
Tracy
Hi!
>> I need structure to follow the steps, so I need something. Do you have any other suggestions for stopped dog walks?
I thought Clean Run had a good one going, with Tammy Moody? I will check and see what is out there.
>> I think I may be having a teeter teach it made, but I wouldn’t get it till the end of the month.
I love my Teach It!
>>My friend asked me if I had a target date to start Tali and I don’t, but I’m going to really try and get her trained on everything this summer at least. While I’ve got my outdoor space.>>
Perfect! She will let you know when she is ready 🙂
Tracy
I am looking forward to meeting her!
I do have these games embedded in a couple of other AU classes, but here are some links:
The pattern game might be similar to what you are doing for LLW but there are a lot of variations. I use to mainly to help the dogs chill out 🙂
T
Good morning!
Whoa, that sunset photo (or is it sunrise?) is amazing 🙂
>>Do you think that Ronan is getting the concept of the game? It seems he is changing his leads pretty quickly.
Yes, he is totally getting it and looks great for both of you! And he did well when you shortened the distance, he did well when you straightened out the bars and most importantly – the reps with the friz looked great! He did not lose his head or coordination and I am very happy with that!
>>Near the end of my video clips there are a few where I tried to rotate once I knew he was committed to the previous wing. This is hard!>>
Yes, it is hard but we are now going to make it easier for you (but harder for him LOL!)
Move the grid closer now so that bar 1 touches wing 2, and bar 2 touches wing 3, and bar 3 touches wing 4 (you no longer need bar 4).
Angle them so he can almost see a straight line through them, and set him up so he can see a pretty straight line through (it combines the zig zags here with the angles jump grid he has already seen). You will lead out to the end and basically call him through with very minimal handling: you can move your arms a bit but not loot or leg movement at all. Make the straight line visual as easy as possible til he really doesn’t need handling. Then we can make it harder. To give you an idea of where it is going, here is the grid in the final form. You can’t really see me in the early reps (I am standing still, doing nothing much :)) and later in the video, I am moving along the line and it is So.Much.Harder 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thanks for the sound, sometimes it is my terrible country internet that messes it all up 🙂 The freeway noises don’t seem to both the dogs at all, they are probably all used to it.
<<>> Me too. I’m enjoying my new freedom. 😃
For real! Being free to concentrate on handling makes it easier to be clear with the handling, which helps him stay focused, so you can keep concentrating on the handling. It is a fabulous cycle 🙂
>> I still couldn’t tell whether calm or cartoon works better. I know if he’s distracted I have to be more animated to get his attention.>>
My guess is that in a trial a bit of cartoon lead out might do the trick? The only way to know is to try it 🙂
>> in class, you can try putting big jump wings between the frame and the tire
Good idea and there are some extra wings. They tried cones and he still ran under.>>He is a slippery little thing, fitting between the cones and the tire LOL!! I would put 2 wings on it, so he can’t fit through the sides and it looks like a jump, and lower it just enough that it is really hard (but not impossible) to limbo under it.
>> Someone mentioned their instructor had them run with hands in pockets so that might work.
I have done that to my poor students hahah – hands in back pockets to keep the shoulders open (not front pockets). Or, with a bottle of water in their hand (or ice cream, that is the MOST fun haha)
>>I signed up for gamblers and standard. He’s been to this location once before in Feb 2020 and ran out of the ring twice. Plus it’s double ring. His monthly run thru is on Sat 5/21 so not sure that will work out.>>
2020 was a long time ago (feels like 10 years, not 2 years) so no worries that he ran out of the ring. A double ring trial is more distracting but USDAA is quite small nowadays.
>>From what I can tell, they amended the rules in 2020 and allow FEO outside of Intro now. You’re not allowed to use toy in distracting manner to other ring. Previously it mentioned not throwing. So this might be one for clam on leash.>>
Yes – you can run every single class FEO now (I did it in February with all 3 of my baby dogs at a USDAA trial). Ask the judge about not throwing – I threw the toy in the USDAA I went to, but it was one ring.
>>Do you know if USDAA allows FEO at regional events in the regular classes? There’s one place that has AC 😀 but it’s mainly used for regionals.>>
Perry is niiiiiiiice I have run there a few times! The judge listed here is Courtney Keys who is one of the nicest people ever on the planet and she also understands how it is important to build engagement through reinforcement (she is also a fabulous dog trainer!) I *believe* that it is fine to run FEO in the regular classes but I will find out for sure.
Tracy
Good morning! I hope you are having a great trip!!!! Nice big distracting area here for training!!! She did really well – there is a LOT of potential distraction in the environment. And hooray for her Instant Focus success!! Overall, I think her focus and engagement are looking good here 🙂
Good job setting up the session props before she came into the picture, so you didn’t have to finagle around and could only focus on her.>>But man I love how she looks up at me as soon as I set her down.
Totally agree! The power of Pavlov! It is a thing of beauty, she barely has to think about it. And you are being really good about being stationary, no cookie hands moving, not asking for engagement – just letting her offer. She is doing well with the moving pops also. And also I am loving her speed on the releases with the pressure of the reward station.
>>I realized I should have done some tricks to warm her up, so after a break I started with that, and added a jump like object to the picture. This was a little harder! Especially going towards the RR station.>>
Yes, you can ‘volume dial’ her up as well, it can help and it is great to practice in a zillion different environments. And also I see how it was harder to get her to NOT look at the reward station, like at 1:48 which was harder silly walk moment, looking at the reward station and having trouble looking at you (but releasing successfully past it). With the reward station: try not to release her directly towards it. Always release her going away from it or past it (for now) because we don’t want to accidentally muddy the waters that running towards it will get the reinforcement going (it will not :))
Going away from the reward station seems pretty easy. Going past it was more of a head exploder, which makes sense because it is hard for her to go past ring crew distraction too, for example. So it is a good one to practice (going past it) but with more distance away from it, so it is easier for now.
And since you mentioned Silly Walks, I immediately thought of this:
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I would definitely love to see the video from flyball if you are able to get it. We have worked a couple different versions of flyball don’t chase the thing exercises but I think a lot is it just isn’t enough reps yet.
I will get video! And I also did a ton of pattern games outside the lane with CB, in classes, practices, tournaments. A zillion pattern games LOL! That really helped.
>> good when the dog isn’t running very spotty when dog is running but it has been a few weeks.>>
Spotty, as in delayed response/high latency? Or spotty as in zero response? Two things can help: more distance away from the moving dogs. And higher value reinforcement. I had to bring out 2 frisbees (frisbees are LIFE!) to get the pattern games going with CB when dogs were running. And then went to the highest value food (steak and meatballs :))
>>Wag should be a nice setup to do where she can see the ring but far enough I shouldn’t get complaints>>
I will refrain from comments about complaints LOL!!! And hopefully UKI will prove to be more training-friendly.
>>Taping on the other hand will be a massive challenge there.>>
Totally understandable! Take notes after each run, if possible 🙂
>>I feel like next step difficulty is Pip tethered, behind a gait, or held by someone. I don’t have to worry about him practicing bad behaviors (he will but at 13.75 who cares) and he should be less distracting than a novel dog.
Yes! Did you get a chance to look at the Kryptonite games? I had my older dogs on one side of the fence and the ‘working’ dog with me… som really good training without head explosions. You can use gates or xpens if you don’t have enough room to be on the other side of a fence.
>>I haven’t added difficulty this week with 2 more challenging days over the weekend it was a good week to make sure the foundation behaviors were solid with lots of successes.
Totally agree – we want to proceed very slowly and make it super successful for both of you!
On the video – I think she did really well here!!! The pattern games are easy for her now, so any changes in response or latency ar egood barometers for how she is feeling about the environment! And she was offering engagement beautifully without you needing to do a choreographed song and dance number to get her looking at you 🙂
She had one little scent distraction at 1:14ish, investigated something on the other side of the dog walk but returned to engagement within a couple of seconds. If we had turned up her arousal (volume dial stuf) then I doubt she would have investigated the smells.
>> I would vote next step is person jogging or person walking Pip (or him gaited in a small area).>>
Yes – handlers jogging during the walk through, someone warming up their dog, or someone walking Pip and being silly with him 🙂
>>I will have to bring a bribe for my students.
I have found that humans are food motivated 🙂 and they also like to watch their instructors train, especially when things go a little off the rails LOL!
>>Peach wine or chocolate mint wine on Monday – asking for a friend who has Monday night off :).>>
Chocolate mint wine is ALWAYS the winner for me, that stuff is dangerously yummy 🙂
Keep me posted on the weekend! Have fun!
TracyHi!
I think this spacing looks good! And her position on the 1st jump seemed fine (hard to tell exactly from the camera angle) – I think she knocked it on the first rep because you released AND ran with the dragging toy all at the same time, so she was surprised. You can stay in motion, walking, and dragging the toy – and then release.
She also did better when you were facing forward (reps 3, 4, 5) then when you were facing her (rep 2),so keep facing forward as you release and drag.She definitely seemed to like the dragging 🙂 I like what she is doing with her striding especially on reps 3, 4 and 5! How far away was the 3rd jump on rep 3? I think you can add more distance now – same distance between 1 and 2, but now jump 3 can start 3 feet further away for each rep.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> Question-watching some of the accordion video and you talked about getting the 3rd jump out to 15′. Can you give the steps that I should be doing, how far to move it completely out, for me to work in our month off and the set point I would just be raising? Tali is almost 17 months.>>Eventually, jump 3 can be all the way out at 24 feet, using the similar progression as you did here: the first 2 jumps always stay the same. The 3rd jump can start at 8 or 9 feet away, and in the same session go to 12 then 15 then 12 then back to the first distance.
If you like the striding at 12 and 15 feet for a couple of sessions, you can keep the first distance the same, then go to 12-15-18-15-12. At 15 and 18, the bar can start to go up.
And so on 🙂But before she sees a taller bar in the accordion, let her see it in the set point. At 17 months, you can raise the bar about 2 inches per week, and see how it goes!
Tracy
