Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning! Hope the root canal was easy!!!
He is finding the backsides really well… but you are using handling by lining him up and taking a big step to it. So, let’s change the lineups so he is going on verbal and not needing the big steps. Mainly, both of you will face forward and when you let go of him, you should also be moving (you were standing still here). But don’t move towards the backside wing, just walk straight up the line. Have the reward already in your hand so you can toss it to the landing spot of the jump so you can be moving away. This will help hi, look at the bar and not at you, which greatly expands understanding of the verbal and gives you more handling options.
I isolated the visuals of this so you can see what I mean – a couple of screenshots of the line up, then you can see the dog and I are both moving forward – then a couple of screenshots of the thrown rewards (a pink stuffed pig LOL!) You can see them here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1me86n8AghzWvbvGgFA1JOzkdcaDaeHHL7s6umBHZ4Ao/edit?usp=sharing
The Serps are looking really good, you had a much better start position so he was able to read the line so much better. Yay!! Because he is very fast, you can move the start wing further away so you have more time to send to it and still get way ahead on the serp jump.
I didn’t hear the verbals on the serp jump, so definitely add in your left/right verbals. It sounds like you were using wrap verbals on the start wing (dig and check) but those would be left/right verbals too, because he is not coming back around the wing like a wrap.Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Sly says to tell you that I’m dangerous when I have a MM clicker in my hand and have to use it for more than one thing! I loved your idea of using the MM for the Wraps but I kept clicking it as soon as I saw commitment to the Wrap instead of waiting for him to come back to me and then sending…after I did that 2 or 3 times, I had the poor boy SO confused!!!
Eek! Sometimes that MM clicker has a mind of its own and forces us to hit it at odd times LOL!
>> Short session today of Wraps and Gos and Wraps and Gos….with the MM only for the Gos. I was really pleased with how this went 🙂 On to Week 2’s games!!!
Yes, he did really well here, I didn’t see any questions or errors from him at all. Yay! As you move into the week 2 games (which have a bit of wrapping too in game 3) – try not to decelerate at all as you move up the line to the soft turns or the wraps – just keep walking forward, no change in motion. As soon as you see him change his stride in response to he verbal – then you can turn and run and reward. This challenges him to process the verbal without needing to also see supporting handling. You will probably need to start further from the wing-jump or two jump setup, and when using the start wing, you can start it further too – so you have more room to just keep moving forward especially when you are running.
I think you will also find that as the games start to combine and contrast the different elements, that repeating the verbal will help because he can differentiate based on volume, style of delivery, etc and not just one or two reps of the word. It was fine here to just say “wrap” or say it twice… but eventually on the bigger distances with more possibilities of verbals, you will find it more effective to use wrapwrapwrapwrap versus GOOO! GOOOOO! GOOOOOO! and lehhhhft or riiiight 🙂
Great job here! Looking forward to the week 2 games!!
TracyHi!
>>1) when practicing left and right. What is the farthest out for the middle wing (hope that makes sense)?
For a small dog, maybe 2 feet away.
>>2) how far apart with crate and tunnel to start discrimination? He getting better it’s me restraining before release so I want to really start practicing this.
We want success to start, so maybe 6 feet away? if it is too hard, you can move them further apart. If it is too easy, you can move them together 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>The article specifically mentions Aussies and BC to start at 4 ft. Her book defines medium dogs as those that jump 16-20 in. But, the book says start at 5 ft.
Whoa! Color me surprised! They meant *adult* Aussies and BCs at 4 feet? I remember Susan S using 6 feet for those but maybe she has changed something, it has been a solid 10 years or more since I have seen her in person. And 16-20″ jumping dogs covers a pretty massive size range – my 15″ dog jumps 16″ and my 20.5″ dog jumps 20″, and their grid sizes are really different. So we will go with the feedback Sprite is giving us.
>> Plus, Aussies tend to jump with their front and head up.
Yes, some Aussies want to ‘invert’ their form but if we are careful to always have the reinforcement encouraging them to look downwards and at the bar, they do a lvoely job with the jumping.
I really liked what she did on the decel session!!! aving you sideways definitely helps her -she was setting up MUCH better!!!
>> I probably should have jumped her toward the camera.
This angle worked well, we got a great view of what she was doing with her hind end 🙂 She was definitely working collection on the takeoff side. She was having a little trouble on the landing side – but I think that was mainly because she knew she had to stop and there was too much momentum to stop easily. So, good feedback from her – you can turn this more into a ‘turn and burn’ reinforcement than a stopped reinforcement. Do everything the same: be sideways, release her, etc. Bu the difference is as soon as you see her approaching the bar to takeoff in collection, do that tight FC and run so she chases you for the reinforcement. That way she can power throw the decel and landing.
Also, since the turns looked really good here, you can add your collection verbal!
>>I asked for a sit once to remind her as she definitely wants to launch from further distances.>>
She didn’t look launchy here and the sit surprised her enough that she got really careful on the next rep. I think the sideways angle of your position and the turn and burn exits will be all she needs 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>My brain has a very very hard time following the left and rights on the serp drills so I may have to magic marker my hands and sit in a quite room to really wrap my head around it 🤯
I found the verbals on the serp drill to be pretty challenging, which is why I lovingly passed them on to y’all hahaha! They will sharpen the brain!
>>This weekend when running the pups we had an interesting backside from a straight tunnel. The red child was the only one who got that it was a backside, albeit wide for the first couple of reps. Both Callie and Roulez were convinced it was a front side and we had to break it down for them differently.>>
WHAT A GOOD BOY!!! You had nice timing of the verbal before the tunnel and he was a superstar to go do it. And you got it 3 times, so it was no fluke. Did you balance it and ask for the front side on a rep?
>>My question is his lack of efficiency here- is it my handling or lack of fluency in your opinion? I know in the past he would hit the Bs and not take the jump but that seems to be much improved.>>
Lack of efficiency? LOL! Picky, picky. He was great! He was also ignoring a dog in the xpen on the way to the backside, he has had trouble with that in the past. On the 2 reps, he could have been tighter with earlier info for the exit line (you might have been late because you were surprised LOL) On the 3rd rep, he was great! I have no issues with what he did here, hopefully he got MANY FRIZZERS for nailing a skill that the more experienced girls could not get 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Was he kinda going to the wing but not finishing the wrap – looking at you and the jump more than he was ‘seeing’ the wing? Could be a processing challenge:Finding just the wing is important to being able to process the verbal in the sea of bigger visuals – for example, can he find the backside circle wing when there is a tunnel behind it (and that is what the judges are doing lately LOL!). Jump discriminations are really popular, and in this setup the wing is the smallest visual – so working it through on the wing is actually a big important foundation piece, to get the behavior to be an automatic response to the verbal without the question of “shouldn’t I take the more obvious obstacle?”
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
TracyGood morning!
The soft turns are looking really good! Both sides look equally strong. You can definitely send less and move more – I think the best way to do that at this point is to add the start wing because he will get to move more and he will like it that you are also moving more. That way you can both run up the line into the soft turn, first on the wing and then you can add the jump.
And he DEFINITELY seems to like the hollee roller! Yay!!! Tons of drive to the wing is happening, thanks to the joys of chasing the toy!!
Speaking of reinforcement:
>>Outside he mouths the toy instead of bringing it back unless I lure him with a treat.
He definitely like the toy, and that is good! I think that when he tugs on the way back to the setup spot, the result is that you take the toy away when he gets there and he has to setup to work… a bit of negative punishment for coming back to the setup spot. He is a smart dude LOL!! So he was avoiding bringing the toy back to the setup spot. I have certainly done that by accident with Contraband and the frisbee. Oops! Darned smart dogs.
When you had more action and reinforcement involved, such as running and continuing to tug, then trading for a cookie – no problem! I think it is fine to have him bring it back for a cookie in this scenario (or a second toy to tug on). It builds value for bringing it back while maintaining the efficiency of the session. You can also have him bring it towards you then throw it again, or throw a second toy. For a while, I would train with 2 frisbees in my hands, so I could reward getting the first one back by throwing or tugging on the second one.
But I also do a lot of “thanks for bringing it, here is your cookie” and I am perfectly fine with the dog seeing the payment in advance 🙂 Some might even call it a loop LOL! But in reality, I am usually not training a retrieve, I just want to do the next rep of the agility thing, so I am fine to trade for cookies or a toy.
I do train the retrieves separately and reward those a lot without showing the payment in advance. As the dogs get more experienced, the retrieving gets built into the training sessions too.
So for now, feel free to thank him for his great work of getting the hollee roller by calling him back for a treat or toy. It takes the pressure off both of you, and keeps the game really fun 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> On a full course I haven’t noticed any issues with that so far. More the opposite – he’ll continue on a line and not hear me give verbals for a direction change>>
So then we will file it in the “If It Ain’t Broke, Don’t Fix It” category LOL!
>> (or maybe he’s just giving me the middle toe and doing the fun stuff. LOL!)
He is probably not ignoring you, my guess is that his lack of experience is causing a delay in processing and/or he doesn’t fully understand the verbals/turn cues in the layer of excitement in the environment on the big lines. I have been doing a good amount of NFC work in UKI and USDAA with my youngsters at trials – setting them on big fast lines, cuing a turn, then getting back on a big fast line (with toys in the ring, to help solidify the behavior I like).
On the video:
I loved the serp session!! After the first rep, your timing was great and his turns were **chef’s kiss** lovely. He is a big guy and was able to jump sideways into the perfect landing spot. YAY SPOT!!!! And other than the verbal, you were not really helping with handling. When you are handling ‘for real’, you can open your shoulders to him more. My only suggestion is that you can repeat the verbal for the jump a few times – that will definitely help him process as we add more and more speed.On the backsides:
I had to chuckle on the first rep: he wouldn’t look until you gave the correct verbal LOL!! Good boy. You can be louder with your push push verbal, it is a ‘forward’ cue so it can be really loud 🙂 The clean start mechanics that I am bugging everyone about will definitely help him look at his line, though – you did a lot of reps where he started while looking at you,. which reinforces looking at you and didn’t always lead to a correct response.On this progression, he had a lot of success when you had the clean start mechanics and didn’t move across the bar too quickly in terms of the progression. When you didn’t line him up, hold him, start the verbal then let him go, or when you moved across the bar too quickly – he had too many errors. So obsess on that clean start so he can really get this independent 🙂
For example, you had a gorgeous clean start at 1:48, and he nailed it independently.
Without the clean start line up, when you moved forward and said the verbal at the same time, he would fail more than we want him too – (1:52 and 1:56 for example, with handling help at 1:59 to get it right)So with the line ups, as you move to the front versus backside step 3 of the game, have every rep begin with that clean line up, collar hold, verbal, then movement. You’ll find he learns it faster because it separates the verbal from the motion in the proper order.
He did a great job with the backside circles! Nice commitment! I know it is tempting to do these on a jump with a bar, but keep them on a wing for now so you can add more and more motion without too much bang on his body. The jumping effort on these is really hard so we want to work the concept of commitment while you run past while saving his body.
You can now start him on a bit more of an angle – do the clean start here too, holding him while you repeat the cue. That way you can both have more motion when you let go of him and a high chance of success. This is also a good verbal to repeat “roundroundround” to help drive him through collection and commitment even as you keep accelerating forward.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Horses too!!! I am so jealous of your Farmville!!!! My 9 year old dog loves Katy’s sessions – he moans when I watch her videos LOL!The serpentines looked (and sounded :)) great! Well done to you for setting up the mechanics so well. And yes – as you mentioned in the video, you need to keep moving LOL! She was fast AND tight on her turns. YAY!
As you were getting ahead of her you were moving past the exit wing (kind of to the tunnel under the a-frame or to the purple jump when you changed sides). You can add challenge by running past the serp jump, towards the fence behind you soo you are well past the jump when she needs to take it. As long as you are giving your verbal and keeping your shoulders open to her, she should take the serp jump even if you are way past it. So she will exit the start wing and you will be already past the exit wing of the serp jump – that should be pretty challenging (and will set up the Serp part 2 challenges for next week :))
Backside slices: this one is all about mechanics 🙂 She is finding the backside but we can get her to be even more independent and that will also help with the jumping.
>> she also tends to get me to rush the start with all the excitement she has. (Barking)
The clean start will make your job easier here – you can use line up cookies to convince her to give you a heartbeat’s worth of time to get ready. She definitely likes to do the thing and not wait for it LOL! I use cookies as part of the line up to help pay my dogs for putting up with the time it takes me to get ready: line up cookie, hand on collar, maybe even another cookie if I need a more time to get my act together. The dogs learn that it is part of the game with their slow momma 🙂 so they give me that moment to get ready because they are being paid with cookies. that way you can be on the line you want, saying the verbal and just let go before you move, rather than needing to rush or step to the wing.
>Sometimes I’m too inconsistent on my line..
I think you were starting on the hard line, which might be why it felt weird. You were set up on the exit wing and sending her. Both of you should be on the entry wing, facing the entry line so all she needs to do is go straight to it (and all you would need to do is give the verbal and walk or jog forward). By starting on the exit wing, you were stepping to the backside and we want to get her to do it just on the verbal, without a step. then we move you both further and further across the bar, and she goes on the verbal without you needing to even step to the backside. The goal is that the two of you can be eventually be facing the center of the bar in the line up position – and you can run forward and cue a backside, and she goes and takes the backside without needing you to do any handling to get it.
She was having a little trouble with the jumping on the backside – a few knocked bars, a few times where she struggled a bit but didn’t knock it. I think that she is looking at you and that is changing her jump style. So we can use placement of reinforcement to help that – no matter where you end up in your motion, always keep moving and throw the reward back to the landing spot, as soon as she gets to the entry wing. That will help shape her to look at the bar and not at you – and looking at the bar will help her organize her jumping with better form. You can do it with a low, locked in bar to start, so she can be looking at the bar and not at you.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I wanted to pick your brain a little more during tonight’s zoom session about seeps before I went out and practiced them.
Hopefully the brain-picking was helpful 🙂 My demo unicorn was exhausted LOL!
This setup gives us some good ideas for future sessions!! I agree, th eleft turns are easier than the right turns, but no worries.
Overall, he was strong on these and so on a bigger course with ‘normal’ distances and real handling… he is going to do a GREAT job! Add some more arousal to the training now – get him tugging more before each rep. You are doing a great job with the placement, marker, hands…so many things but you are getting it all done 🙂 I like how at :25 for example you were able to just run, arms pumping, he didn’t jump or bark. YAY!Looking at the left turns – his mechanics on the soft turns and the wraps both look really good! He had an error on the first wrap cue after having done all of the soft turns – so alternate soft/wrap more frequently so he doesn’t get locked into one and then fail on the first rep of the other. After that one error, the rest of the reps went really well to the left!
He had a lot more trouble with the right turns, starting with a creative twist to offer a backside threadle wrap at :41 LOL! My guess is he was thinking of all the left turn rewards plus left is his stronger side, so you need to either mix up left and right sides more frequently within the session (do one or two before changing side) or do them in separate sessions – and definitely start with the right turns so he doesn’t get locked into the left turns.
And, like with the left side, after a bunch of soft rights, he first right wrap was incorrect. But the difference is that he didn’t say “oops, fixed it” – he had several more incorrect reps. Since that is harder, you can alternate soft versus wrap more frequently. And because it will take more reps to train it, stay on the wing (not a jump) for this side as you add motion. That way you won’t end up doing 35 jumps with tight turns in one session – all of the concept work can be done with the wing. When he rate of success is over 90%, then the jump can come back in.
Bear in mind that the turn doesn’t have to be perfect before switching to the other one – if the wrap is within criteria (he comes around the wing and doesn’t go to the distraction jump), you can switch to the soft turn within a rep or two, rather than doing multiple wraps in a row. Doing multiple in a row will make the processing harder because he will get too locked into one thing over the other, rather than processing each cue. We are looking for correct turns, they don’t need to be gorgeous 🙂 because they will be gorgeous when we add back real handling 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Thank you for the Casper videos, he is charming!!!
SO MUCH GREAT STUFF on this video!!! His wraps look fabulous!
I am very happy with the wrap reps with the 2 jumps – he never looked off course and you were not using body language to help him. It looked like you had some motion forward and he was still collecting nicely! Yay!
Using this 2 jump setup, let’s get him wilder 🙂 Holding his collar instead of a stay can make him wilder, and tugging like mad before each rep can make him wilder too. It is a good way to way to add a bit more challenge!
And adding the start wing will help too, mainly because it adds his speed and gives you a chance to do some late handling. Try to just keep moving forward until his decision matches your verbal cue for the go or for the wrap – don’t do any decel or rotation until after you see collection if you have cued the wrap. This is to help the verbal override motion, particularly when you are running like mad on the big courses and you are behind him.
Exit line game – it was fair the he thought the first rep was the jump not the wing, perhaps he didn’t fully understand the setup. But then he did that a couple more times through the session on both sides, after reinforcement for the wing. When you played the game with a jump instead of a wing? Easy peasy, no problems: that is an interesting insight into how the jump is a big, valuable visual versus the wing being little and not as tasty 🙂 So this is a game to keep doing on a wing. His organization for the wraps on the jumps looks really good! So having him ‘find’ the smaller obstacle will actually help more on bigger courses (more on that below). And you can add the start wing in before this to add more motion (and less handling, just running forward, don’t decel or rotate til after you see a decision).
When you put the exit game from the tunnel -that is some of his best wrap work ever! Hurray!!!!!
A couple of ideas for you to add challenge:
Bearing in mind that he migrates to the high-visibility obstacles… totally keep working it in context on the wing 🙂 I want him to be able to find that little wingless jump in the sea of big wings, contacts, etc. as that is definitely something that he will encounter on course. And the same will go for him learning to see a wing jump when it is ‘hidden’ by tunnels, etc. One of the things we do in the last week is put stuff in context with the wing because it is harder than the jump in some ways.
When you put the verbal into context – don’t be a good handler at all LOL!!! You had some beautfiul handling that matched the verbal an he was stunning. Save that for the trial ring LOL! Let’s take out the handling help so there is motion but no real physical cues to get him to rely more on the verbals. And then in a trial, you’ll have both the verbals AND the handling to get the turns you want. For example, at 2:16, your FC was late: perfect! Be late more, please 🙂 He still got it nicely!
3:06 and 3:13 and 3:33 were good handling with gorgeous results. So to challenge him to process the verbals in a more realistic situation – on a setup like this, run all the way down to the tunnel then scurry up the line, late and behind him – but get the verbals out as he is in the air over the previous jump. And reward him for making the turn! The rep at 3:41 was a great example of a late cue – he was a good boy to make the wrap as you ran away.
I think you can generally drop the “Enzo” before the turn verbals because at a trial, when he is moving even faster and in higher arousal, the name call might delay the verbal and delay processing, getting an error or wider turn.
You had some switch-wraps in there too: At 3:27 – you had a good verbal and late switch physical cue but he got it right – yay!!!! You had a Switch error at 3:52 – the name call drew him to you and then the physical cue looked identical to the wrap cue and you only said switch once… so he wrapped to you. On the next rep at 4:03 had really good switch cue, great handling cue with the verbal – do that in the trial ring, but in training try to split the difference between no physical cue and good physical cue. Give him a tiny one, maybe a little late like at 3:27.
(I do know that practicing being late on purpose is hard, but it will also solidify on-time handling because you will feel weird when you are late LOL!!)
An since the challenge to turn is harder when you are deliberately NOT helping – leave the bar low on the turn jump. Lack of physical help might cause him to make last-minute decisions, which can be harder on his body (like at 2:58 where he slipped on landing). Since there are a lot of reps and it is a really demanding physical skill, the distraction jumps will help provide the challenge and he doesn’t need to do a lot on tall bars so we can save his body while working his brain.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I know exactly how fast the weeks move, I am glad you got the training in! Yay! And hooray for Rhonda staying to help video, that is awesome!
>. I suppose it is their starting position on the side of me that lends itself to taking the wing or jump on the correct side.>>
Yes – the structure of the game helps us get the behavior so we can name the behavior – no need to test it yet, we just want to get it named 🙂
Libby did really well here! You can add the distraction jump closer to the wing and the turn jump, to add a little more challenge. The jump should probably be 4 or 5 feet away from the wnig or turn jump. Also, since she really had no trouble with the sot turns, add motion on every rep – no stationary reps. It doesn’t have to be fast motion yet – but no more standing still.
To help be able to add the motion, I also suggest using line up cookies after each rep to line her up at your side, to make a clean start. She was facing you a lot on the cues here, which made it hard to move and say the verbal more than once. So start a little further back, line her up at your side with a cookie, then start the rep when she is facing the setup (which is more accurate to what will be happening on course). You can add more of your motion (and her motion!) with the start wing now, I think she is ready for it.
For Desi – she also did well here! As with Libby, use the line up cookies to get her at your side for clean starts so she commits better (she will have more distance to cover if she is closer to you and not nearer the wing) and so you can move more. She was more opinionated about NOT coming back to line up, which makes the structure of the game more difficult. I am confident than a line up cookie can change her opinion of the lining up 🙂 And also since she might be a little more sticky to you on course, a line up cookie adds the challenge for switching from handler focus to line focus (to build even more commitment).
The cookie line up will make it valuable for her to be at your side so you can get the rep going – she knows that the value is on the wing and jump now and she doesn’t want to come into you.
She did well with her soft turns, so like Libby – no more standing still 🙂 Start further away so both of you can be moving more, and add in the start wing to get her moving even more.
For the Go verbals – she definitely needs to learn this and she doesn’t understand it when you are stationary… so, add motion! Let’s do what we need to do to get the behavior, so we can name it and then eventually test it. Getting a Go while stationary is more of a test than a training moment, so we will add motion until she is really confident about finding the Go line.
You can do this by moving the jumps closer together so it is easier for her to find the 2nd one. And you should keep moving forward on the go reps until you are past the first jump and she is committing to the 2nd one (and then throw the reward like you did here, that was great!)
For both girls, definitely add motion to all reps so you are moving each time. I recommend saying the verbals more than once, so they can really process them as you are both moving 🙂 They are definitely ready for that! And I think they will like the line up cookies too 🙂 They get a line up cookie regardless of whether the previous rep was correct or not – so you will reward a correct response with a thrown reward and then call her back for a line up cookie. Or, if she is incorrect. just call her back for the line up cookie to start the next rep.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
