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Good morning!
>>I wanted to make sure I got the set up broken down correctly for the backside proofing and that I’m walking in the correct place. She did much better –
Yes! This looked good, you can add a bar to it. When the bar comes back in, 2 things to add:
Run more! We want to set the line from ahead so you need to be jogging or she smokes you :), so you can jog up the line and the n build to running.Keep your feet facing completely straight until just as her nose arrives at the wing, then you can turn away. Try not to roll your shoulders away til after she arrives at the wing – feet going straight forward helps set the line at this stage of training.
>>only got me once where she cut in front of the wing.>>
she had a valid question there – the verbal needs physical support for now, and at :07 watch your feet – they turned away as she was moving up the line and you were not moving a lot, so she questioned the line and came in.
You were better on the others with your feet moving straight up the line for longer, especially :21 and :24 as you added more lateral distance away from the wing. Yay!
>>We tried the countermotion in the basement early this morning and it went much better, so I tried it outside. I’m still moving slowly, but changing my focal point helped a lot.>>
Yes, totally looked good!!! Shifting the focal point helped her a lot, and you were able to release when you were on the takeoff side and she still took the jump.
You can use your arm to help shift the focus to the landing spot – you can use the dog side arm (arm closer to the wing) to point back to the landing spot. It will feel like a bit of a swoosh back behind you, rather than keeping it at your side. It will be moving when you add running, so we might as well use the swooshing to your benefit 🙂
Speaking of adding running: the next step is to release when you are more on the takeoff side, one or two more steps past the exit wing.
And then… add moving faster – jogging then building to running.
>> Good grief, I was all over the place with toy throws – hit her in the head, knocked the bar down… Despite all of that, it went better than yesterday.>>
That is the hilarious part of trying to run AND place reinforcement LOL!! She was very forgiving and didn’t seem too judgmental about it 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well here in both directions! It is rare that the dogs can do it well in both directions at this age and I didn’t see any difference when going to his left or to his right. YAY!!! And great job to you with the timing, the connections, and all the verbals. Click/treat for you!!!! That really helped him.
He did well with the ‘back’ verbal and turn away on the wings!!!
Only wo little suggestions to consider:
He prefers to look for you when he is exiting the tunnel rather than blast straight. That is fine (and actually a little better than trying to convince him to turn LOL!) so to get a straighter exit, you can give him a little GO! before he enters. That will help propel him away to the wing/jump after it, at which point you can switch to your back cue.
You can also give a wrap cue on the wing at 1:05 before the in in tunnel threadle, just to set up the turn even more (especially when we replace the wings with jumps, to set up the collection). So as he exits the ‘back’ at 1:04, you can be giving him a wrap verbal. Your timing of the in in was lovely and he was GREAT with his response! It is a really hard tunnel threadle and he nailed it. SUPER HAPPY DANCE!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I noticed in your backside video you are using the banana arm. Or, the off side arm out cue. Are we supposed to do that? I think I wasn’t facing Sprite enough on the backside session. Gemma has such an awesome backside that I just expect it. But, Sprite is definitely more handler focused naturally>>
You *can* totally use the opposite arm for the backside cue – it is the same arm use as the get out arm: pulling your outside shoulder forward of your body. But, you don’t have to it. Or, you can start with that and then fade it (which is what I did with the dog in the demos: he now no longer needs the outside arm for backsides).
You can add more connection for the backsides but the extreme connection needs to also have the outside shoulder forward (which is why the outside arm is helpful because it ‘pulls’ the shoulder forward as you point to the entry wing). If you it simply increased eye contact, we humans end up bending over/rotating and drawing our shoulders back… which cues the dog to the front side.
So I start with the outside arm to help mysefl establish good mechanics and teach the skill and for most dogs, we fade it. The only one of my dogs that needs it right now is my 9 year old dog, because his foundation was not as good and because he completely understands the outside arm cue for the backside.
And Gemma is a lot more experienced, so I think Sprite’s handler focus is simply young dog inexperience. And it is a GOOD thing! We don’t want the dogs NOT focusing on what we are doing LOL!
The lead outs on the video looked lovely – I like the lines she is choosing in order to set up the turn! She made all adjustments before arriving at the jump. Perfect! Interestingly, she rounds her line when turning right and collects more/sharpens the line when turning left. We can time the difference eventually when she is doing this in sequence, because the sharper turns are prettier but often the rounded lines are faster 🙂
The first part of the session looked great (right turns). I think you can put a low bar back into this: do a couple of warm up reps without the bar to refresh the skill then add an 8 inch bar and see how she deos with organizing before takeoff.
>>But, when we changed sides she got sticky. Couldn’t hold the line or wouldn’t release.
Looking at that, it might have been a couple of things: she was not lined up as well an dwas pretty far from the jump on the first rep or two so was facing you a little more even before the release. And, she had just gotten a lot of reinforcement in that area where you were standing on the right turn reps… so she might be very literal with reward placement LOL! “Mom, I had to go there to get the reward last time, so here I come!”
Then the sticky releases might just be her asking a “what the heck!” question.After the break, she as QUITE lovely! I like what she is doing with the line and turn here too.
So you can show her the left turns first next time, setting her up as straight to the line as possible and change sides more frequently too so she doesn’t get locked into the literal reward spot. I think having the bar come back in will help because she an use the bar as a focal point, so bring it back in for the left turns too (after a rep or two of refreshing the left turns without the bar first).
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>He is really starting to understand that verbal and it will be great to not need any type of handler motion to command.
Yes! it will be really useful on course!
>>Here is a repeat of the zig zag drill. I am a bit late on the cue as he moves down the line.
He did well here, I like the offset angles for him. He is getting quicker and more comfortable with the lead changes here. So with that in mind, using the exact same set up – you can start to make the handling cues smaller. At this point, I think he will recognize the setup so you can use smaller arm movements (and no foot movement) to cue the line. That way you don’t have to worry about being faster or earlier, because smaller movement is naturally quicker 🙂
By smaller movement, the hands can be lower, elbows a bit bent, and you are basically pointing back and forth without rotating at the waist at all.
>>I may work on it again with the wings more spread out to improve the timing of the cue.
Start with the smaller movements first – then our goal is to bring the wings/bars closer together so that he is basically bouncing back and forth. You can keep the offset angles in place for as long as needed til he can do it with minimal handling from you 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracySUPER!!!!! She got into her line up in a trial environment without needing to see the toy, and held it really well.
>>Recommendations?
She holds the stay better when you run away in the lead out. We saw it in Kiln at the camp, and I see it here: she is bouncing forward a bit when you were walking. But did you see how she got SOLID in the stay when you started running? Love it! So… start jogging off the line and get to full speed as quickly as you can, as that solidifies her stay (totally opposite of what we would expect, but… keeps up on our toes LOL!) So the quicker she gets into her position, the faster you leave and the quicker you run away and release her… all of that is reinforcing to her so we can definitely use it!
Great job! Keep me posted on today!
TracyGood morning! And Happy Birthday!!
He did well here – it was definitely challenging because he was well aware of where the cookies were, but it looks like he was able to respond to all the cues quickly and correctly. Super!!! The paws up trick is a good one for focus and the line up trick is great for the start line.
At 1:41 you did a ‘right here’ to ask him to move away from the reward station – I liked that better than the earlier reps where you said ‘let’s go’, because the let’s go is also the cue to go back to the rewards and we don’t want to confuse him 🙂
At 1:50, it looks like he thought he was in stay (a small raising of your hand after the touch might be part of a hand signal for sit/stay, maybe?) so he was not as fast to release to the cookies. But no worries, because he was still responding to a cue 🙂 Good boy!
This looked really good – definitely take it on the road to class and the training field. And at home, add in the leash to get him used to it (and because the leash is a pain in the butt for us humans to wrangle too!)
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Really interesting stuff! And I saw a neuroscientist behavior person is doing a seminar on meds for dogs, so there is still more to be learned.>>She also said that I do I great job of managing his needs but maybe this would mean I don’t have to work so hard at it- which would be nice because it can be a bit exhausting.>>
YES! It is exhausting for you both, probably. And if the brain doesn’t make something, we can totally buy it from big pharma – better living through chemistry. Let me know how he does!
TracyGood morning!
>>It is still amazing to me, given that I am a last minute Lucy to the line, how many times Tango and I get stuck waiting. Its is not a ton of times, but at least 3-6 times per agility season.
Yep – the agility gods have an evil sense of humor. And the dogs that need more time? They always get rushed to the line. And the dogs that are perfectly fine with added waits? They never have to wait. Sigh.
T
Good morning!
>>She actually prefers food to toys. But, I can try food.
I think food will be more ‘boring’ (and therefore efficient and helpful :)) because it predicts stopping and coming to you more, and toys predict running and chasing. Since we want collection, food might be the winner here even though she likes it more than toys because she is less likely to jump long away from the food 🙂
>> I’m not sure adding more distance will help. In a grid, she jus5 takes off earlier if she has a ton of room. But, I can try. Soft turns are hard!
Totally agree, soft turns are the hardest! This should be different than a grid, because of your position and because you are stationary. And if she still wants to take off early, then this is a great set up to help her NOT do that. I think she will be fine with adding collection strides, though, because in the last session she was already on her way to sorting it out.
On the video – She is totally getting the idea!!! Good timing on the toy drops! For now, lower the bar to 4 or 8, since the toy drops are so close. Even with the bar at this height (12″ ?) she had to think too hard about getting over it with the toy drop being very close to it.
Your line of handling was really good, only one rep where you turned your shoulders away too soon (:20) – otherwise you maintained the connection til she was committed. NICE! And the front side balance was easy and she went right back to the backside on the next rep at the end. Perfect!
So for the next session, you can add more motion! Move the start wing further away so you can now move more up the line, at a jog building to a run.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyLordy, I forgot to put in my notes about the countermotion, pass the coffee!! She definitely wanted you to stay on the landing side and I think that can be fixed with a connection shift. When releasing, you are looking at her a bit too directly and need to shift your connection from her eyes on the release, to the landing spot. That is why at 1:01 and 1:09 she didn’t take the jump and on the other side, you had to stop motion to help her. So, as you release her, make a big dramatic connection shift away from her eyes and to the landing spot, pointing to the landing spot too (all while you keep walking forward and drop the toy in on the landing spot too) I think it will be easier if you put the toy in your opposite hand for this, so you can dump it in behind you while you make the big connection shift and so she doesn’t look at it.
This can totally be done indoors if you get more rain coming 🙂
Let me know how it goes!
TracyHi!
Bummer about the rain, hopefully you get clear weather soon!
>>Also wondering if there was any luck finding my “old” classes – was hoping to get access to the running dogwalk class that Didi took.
Check your email – I just resent them to your comcast email. There are 2 emails with attachments. Check your spam if they don’t show up, they might have ended up in spam when I sent them previously.
>>Question about Max Pup 3 – how much of the teeter process does it cover? Just the beginning steps? I was thinking about doing the independent study teeter class during the downtime (like there’s downtime with a puppy – haha). She’s going to be 18 months old has been exposed to the teeter when younger, had no problems, but it’s time to start doing some actual stuff and my window is small to try to get things done (if the weather ever improves). Can any of the beginning teeter games can be done inside?>>
MaxPup 3 just covers some basic baby level teeter games. The independent study teeter class covers every detail of teeter training so you will have a ‘finished’ teeter by the end 🙂 You can do some of the beginning level games indoors for sure!
On the backside video – thank you for the bloopers! A couple of tweaks to make to the session and then I think she will get it.
For the next session, angle the jump a little so as she approaches the backside wing, the bar is right there. The jump will be on a 45 degree angle from the wing- move the entry to the backside towards the start wing, and the exit wing away from it to set that up.
Also, lower the bar. I know it is only about 12 inches here, but that was still a lot to process with the new skill so it was easier for her to run past it 🙂 I would lock it in at 4 inches for now, it will be easy to raise it when she knows to look for it.
And, drop the reward in a lot sooner. The timing of the reward being dropped is as soon as you think she is arriving at the outer edge of the backside wing, rather than waiting for hre to take the jump or get past the entry wing. That way she sees the reward as she rounds the entry wing and will look for the bar more. It will be easier to drop it in early if you keep it in the non-dog-side hand, so you don’t have to rotate to throw it – you can just plop it in 🙂
To help her get to the backside, 2 ideas so you don’t have to push your running line into hers as much (you were moving yourself to the line she needed to be on):
– put a line on the ground to where the wing and the bar meet, and don’t let yourself go past it 🙂 And… move more. I think your motion will set the line more than the connection at a walk will. Moving more will keep you further ahead to set the line, so she can’t squeeze past you.And, when using a lot of connection, be sure you are not rotating at all – feet still go forward and your outer/opposite shoulder should be a bit forward of your body (like a get out cue) and not pulled back or leaning over. I think with the walking and extreme connection, there was some rotation and shoulders pulling back which was pulling her in to the front side of the jump. So more motion will reduce the next for that much connection and help her stay on the line to the backside.
– also, start this without the bar and the 2nd wing – just use the start wing and the entry wing, and still drop the reward in as if the bar was there. Do this on the angle I described above – it won’t make a huge difference with the single wing but it will make a big difference with the bar. This will help her understand to stay on her line to the outer edge of the wing. After a couple of successful reps, you can add a bar (but not the 2nd wing). One end of the bar can be in the jump cups, and the other end can be on the ground – and see if she can still find the backside. When that it all good? You can add the 2nd wing, maintaining your line and motion and placement/timing of reinforcement.
Building things up like this usually takes on session, maybe 2 sessions – she will have a big “A-HA!” moment 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
OK, will try it out for the straight exits, not fully convinced though 🙂>>I wasn’t convinced on a lot of these types of things either until the evolution of course design kicked my butt too often LOL!! That is why I added a ‘get out’ verbal, and all sorts of different threadle verbals and backside verbals LOL!
>>I actually tested her retrieve outdoors today (she was very happy!). It is good, up to the 5 or 6 feet before she gets to me. She likes to play with the toys at that point, shaking them and bounding around with them, especially the milker, which I want as my goto reward eventually. Haven’t got the “put it in my hand” part installed yet (SIGH). It’s shaping and, while she is better at that, it’s still difficult so I admit to not having done a lot of work on that part with her. Need to commit to doing a little bit every day on it.>>
This is great! You can ask for the ‘out’ on the retrieve toy while she is still on the way back to you and then reward by throwing the next toy the other direction, past you: the early ‘out’ helps eliminate the shaking/bounding play, and throwing the reward past you helps her keep driving towards you and not stopping to anticipate the out. Eventually the reinforcement for the out will be tugging on the toy in your hand.
>>– OK to drop as soon as it looks like she is committed to the backside?
More than OK – this timing is preferred. The toy should be dropped no later than her nose arriving at the entry wing and even earlier if possible. The timing of the reinforcement is as a big thank you to her for choosing to go to the correct side of the wing, and placed to encourage looking for the bar.
>>– Best hand to have the toy in, dog side or other? Dog side feels right given the exit line after the wrap but wanted to check. And maybe it depends on what stage we are at regarding getting around the exit wing?>>
For dropping it on landing side – use the non-dog-side hand, so it can be a quick stealthy drop and she does not look at you while you do it (or at the toy on the way to the jump).
The reinforcement placement when this going into sequences will depend on what handling move is used, but that also relies on complete understanding to take the jump, so it is not on the radar yet.
>>Supposed to get a bunch of rain this weekend but by end of next week temps will (hopefully) being shooting up to around 70F>>
So winter will go right into summer. Fingers crossed for a long, lovely spring!
>>Max pup 3 question – Since that will be getting into sequencing and we are only using jump bumps so far do you expect by then we can start using low bars or still likely bumps? I only have 4 jump bumps and it might be hard to get the 8″ pvc so if we might need a couple more probably need to start looking now.>>
Yes to being able to use low bars on some of the things – for new concepts, I start the dogs on bumps and/or low, locked in bars so they can learn the concept without also having to think about jumping mechanics. Then we can go to jumps, which will be introduced in grids first. She will be about 10 months old when we start MP3? I think she is perfectly on target for what we want 🙂 So no need to go find more PVC bumps, 4 is plenty 🙂
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning! All sorts of good stuff here!
Instant focus: It was a challenge for her at the beginning, partially because she wanted to look around but I think it was more about the head halter. Maybe head halter plus new environment equals “take this thing off!” Ha! I don’t know how much experience she has with wearing it while training and also how well she can take it off by herself (mine were amazing at getting those off LOL).
Resetting and trying again in the new spot helped – and so did taking the head halter off. So, that is good to know – it would be interesting to she what she would do when entering the environment without the head halter. And, if head halters are allowed in AKC (I think there was a rule change and they are allowed now?), you can get her playing these games more while wearing the HH. And her engagement with the prop was better in the next part of the video, and she did really well with it in the remote reinforcement scenario too! This is so good!
It is definitely something to keep working on because it helps her isolate a trained behavior in the midst of all sorts of distractions. My only suggestion other than keep playing with it is to remove the prop when doing other things so that it retains value and she doesn’t ignore it – that might be confusing because then she won’t know when to offer behavior on it versus ignore it.
The line ups look good – the next steps are to put this into a remote reinforcement context, in front of a jump 🙂
Off leash engagement looks good too, she is happy to get the head halter off LOL!
Thinking about putting all the pieces together:
With the new start line games posted last Monday – I cannot imagine a situation in a trial where we would want to pump her up more on the start line LOL! So no need for the cartoon games in a trial, she is going to be ALL BUSINESS 🙂 But you can use the cartoon crazy games in training to put her into a trial-like state of arousal, and work on the start lines, the focus, etc. So definitely play them for training purposes (and for some laughs :)) but I doubt we will use them in a trial.Pattern games – nice sirens as distractions in the beginning LOL! These are going well with food only. And the toy definitely pumps her up – you can use a treat after the toy to help balance the arousal and so she gives the toy back quickly. The process can be a cue to get the toy (strike!) and then a cookie for the release all as part of the reinforcement process. Bear in mond, though, that we don’t need to get her jazzed up in pattern games, just engaged and ignoring the distractions. So in quieter environments, food will be perfect. In more challenging environments, you can see if the toy is a better choice.
In environments without much distraction like on this video, you can start to move, walk around, etc. And definitely play this when there are more challenging distractions (like Fever running a sequence) to see if she can offer engagement with you – this is great for outside the ring at a trial, using the cookie drops on your shoes 🙂Engaged chill at the end is both hilarious and going relatively well 🙂 Both of you look NOT comfy with it LOL! but it is good to have a moment where you both breath. Have you played the take a breath game yet? That might be a better way to chill for you both: you take a long deep inhale of the cookie, and when she air scents for it, you give it to her.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The zig zags looked great! I think she likes the tighter spacing and quicker movements – she was QUITE zippy!! Yay! And she did well with the jumping challenge of it. If you want to play with this more, add another wing and bar to it 🙂The lap turns are looking good! You were not flinging, your arm was fine 🙂 But what will help is if you keep your am extended towards her and your feet together til she is very close to your hand (3 inches here in the States, so about about 8cm for the rest of the world, I think!) The only errors were when you moved your arm and leg back too early, she was a meter or more away from you at :20 and :36 so she correctly thought it was a cue to go to the other side of the jump.
On the other reps, I think the timing of your hand motion was really good but you were stepping your leg back too soon, which might be why it felt weird. The rep at :47 was the best rep in terms of great timing of both arm and leg movement, and the last few reps were strong too! Keeping your feet together for longer will really make it feel smoother 🙂 it will feel late and weird waiting that long, but it is correct!>>Can I just say how satisfying it was to do a couple of tandem turns on courses on the weekend in a couple of tricky spots. They worked so well I impressed myself.
I am glad you got to use them! They are useful moves for sure!!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I agree, this is looking really strong!!! I think she was 100% correct in responding to the get out versus the go straight cues.
She ended up on the other side of you at :09-:10. It looked like a blind cross starting so she was not being naughty about the toy 🙂 be sure you connect with your arm pointing back to her and leave it there so she doesn’t see your shoulders start to rotate. You probably saw her peripherally but she saw the change in connection starting, so she switched sides. Your connection and arm back to her was much clearer at :19!>>On your demo video you were turning so fast for the blind! Can you share some tips for that ? Footwork or ?..
About those quick blinds… part of it is early timing, and part of it came from the sheer panic of running a dog that would bite me if he could catch up to me LOL!!!
Some things that will help get reallyquick on those:
– keep your arms in tight to your ribs, so that all you need to do is turn your head. The closer you keep your arms, the quicker you can turn on the blinds. If you are using your get out arm, the other arm can be nice and tight to your ribs because eve one arm being closer will help make the blind quicker.– try to stay further from the jump on the get out cue and don’t run to the jump when adding the blinds. Being further gives you more time to finish the blind so you look quick but you don’t have to be quicker than the dog.
– and, with you further from the jump, you will have more time to start & finish the blind . Start it as soon as she looks at the jump rather than when she arrives at the jump. That takes strong commitment from her and a lot of trust from you, but I see it already happening on your FCs at the end of this vide, like at 1:15. Those were nice and early!
She also did really well with the transitions!!!
>>In watching the video I see myself stopping on the wraps. Not sure this was correct ? I was trying to avoid rotating too early and apparently can’t do two things at once. Lol…>>
Ha! Yes, there is a LOT happening when doing this with a young dog! I think you were watching commitment and *then* rotating, and ideally you would be watcing commitment *while* rotating – easier said than done.
One thing that might help is putting cone markers out – your decels were generally good, in terms of timing them and her response to them. So you can put out a cone or something off to the side about 2 feet from the jump – when she arrives at that zone, you can assume she is committed and finish the FC and run the other way. Ithink the best example of that was the rep that started at :15 –
you ran forward until she got to about halfway between the wing and the jump, passing you (:16) and you then decelerated. And then when she got to within that 2 foot zone in front of the bar (:17) you rotated away before she took off. Note her tight turn and awesome drive around the wing.
At :34, you decelerated and rotated all at the same time so she didn’t commit, and I think that oopsie was causing you to then wait for longer on the next reps. You can decelerate and face forward til she is at that 2 foot mark before takeoff, then rotate and see if she still commits (I think she will!)
>>Also, I tried to keep moving forward more on the go, go, go, and throwing toy earlier, I think more successful in last reps. I’m really excited about Fritzi’s understanding of these excercises.>>
Yes! It looked really good!! I am very happy with how well she was able to balance driving forward with wrapping on cue. Happy dance!!
>>When is the last day we can submit videos?>>
May 20th is the last day, hopefully that takes some of the time pressure off of trying to do all the things 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
