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Yes, sometimes the session just goes awry and that is fine, as long as ALL sessions don’t go awry – the single session will be forgotten pretty quickly.
About the discs:
Reinforcement can also elicit certain types of behavior reflexively, which adds challenge to training. One thing about frisbees are that they are super high value. The other thing about frisbees are that they are stimulating and they mean RUN especially when there is one in each hand, which might be why he was struggling with the left/right turns or wraps then gave up when they disappeared and you went back to the wing. So to use2 discs, you might need to work on first how they get involved in training, without the distraction jump: wrap the wing, come bite from my hand. The delivery was a little in the grey area – was it a soft turn or a wrap, based on the disc tossing – it was not exactly a soft turn placement, it was not exactly a wrap placement.I don’t think that was the issue here, but it is something to consider. I think the issue was that discs mean GO GO GO and then when you were walking forward, he got caught in that vortex: body and reward say go, but voice says something else – brain explosion! So, we can have body walking forward Iike you did, and use high value food which means “come to momma” – that can help him process the verbal because the type of reinforcement is more in line with it. R
If things go awry, you can also move the wing and jump further apart – and when the 2 jumps are out there, definitely move them apart because of how it took it as a spread at the end (8 feet maybe if that is what he needs to NOT take them as a spread :)) It was good to let him have a giddy up and run moment and his ability to take that as a spread was impressive!!!
So, no worries about a single wonky session – you can repeat it but with a different choice of reinforcement. You can play disc before each rep, put the disc away (I show things down my pants lol) then use food, then back to disc. Let me know what you think and how he does in the next session!
What went wrong with Callie’s left/right session?Tracy
Hi!
Great session here – you were systematic and clear, but you also didn’t over-help with handling. Everything looked strong so your feedback here will be a little boring hahaha!!!
Game 3 left wraps looked great! You had speed and excitement and she was great – I didn’t see her even consider the off course jump and she was bending really well/
She is indeed looking straighter for longer on the right wraps – coming around the wing nicely but looking straight down the line for an extra heartbeat. I think it is probably just that she is a lefty 🙂 Her last right turn looked much better already! Because she is sorting it out, we don’t need to do anything else for now – if she struggles, we can help her but right now she doesn’t appear to be struggling. You can add the jump to this game for sure.Left and right soft turns – looking good! She was setting herself up beautifully for the turns, including to the right! A question: Are you using the same verbal for both directions? So it means ‘soft turn towards the momma’? That can work as long as you have another verbal for ‘soft turn away from the momma’ 🙂
The timing of the toy throw on these in the early stages can be nice and early like you did here for most of the reps, as soon as you see her setting herself up to make the turn and before she looks back at you.
Adding the wing before it was great, she had no trouble so increasing the challenge was good!Now you can add your motion – jogging up the line, then working to running up the line. I think you will be able to get to adding the jump really soon, and then working the balance GO reps and also you’ll be able to get to the combo challenge game pretty quickly.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHa! The feedback from so many people this week was that they forgot what to do as soon as they go to the setup LOL! Or, based on what they did, I could tell they forgot. And when I am training or recording demos, I either have a short list on a white board, or I use screenshots/photos on my phone of what I am supposed to remember. So it the field guides give folks a short list to bring to the training area, then I am happy to help everyone plan a good session with them 🙂
Tracy
Hello and welcome to you and sister Amore!!! She looks great!!
There is a lot of lovely stuff here and some stuff I will bug you to be more systematic about (and the last 9 seconds were blank?). Try to be super systematic on all of this, resisting temptation to add too much challenge too quickly – that is where things get muddy.
The left, right, Go at the beginning looked great – you were at a good speed, she was turning nicely, responding to the cues well! She had an Oopsie at :09 where she did a go instead of the left, probably because you ramped up your motion. You dialed back your motion nicely and she did really well – I recommend staying in that setup for a bit longer, medium speed, moving forward, til the left versus right versus Go! get really locked in, gradually increasing your motion and adding a start wing before it to increase her motion too.
In the middle section, I think you got a little too fancy LOL!!! Running these soft turn skills into a tunnel/weave discrimination a few feet away and with a rear cross made things a little muddy. On the first right turn – she was not necessarily wrong to turn right and go to the tunnel at :18 because that is technically a right turn, according to criteria (at this distance).
At :21 and :24 you got more collection for the right turn with the verbal, she didn’t take the tunnel, but you rewarded a wrap (she came back around the wing)
Then at :30 you said “go” which is straight and that is what you did over the jump, good girl! and then you said tunnel but that is a right turn in this setup- she did it, but she had questions LOL!!! So try not to throw all of the various challenges at her all at once in these small distances – we don’t want the verbals to lose clarity or become reliant on body language.The wrap section looked really great! Her wraps look lovely, even with a lot of countermotion!!!
When you went back to the ‘left’ verbal at :49 – it sounded the same as the wrap cue – that is good to note! So one thing to consider is on the soft turns, extend the word to something like leeeeeft leeeeeeft or riiiight riiiight instead of saying it fast (leftleftleft starts to sound like the wrap cue).Now, in that moment at :49, she didn’t wrap or turn left, she went straight LOL! That means she is still processing motion versus the verbal, so be careful to add your motion very gradually. She wants to get on a line and stay on a line when you are moving fast, so we will add your motion more systematically so she can process the difference between the turn cues when you are moving forward and the extension cues when you are moving forward.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>.What do you think of this? It’s hard to be running and throw when he’s digging in, but I think since I put more energy into it he was running to the wing. I don’t think I threw at the toy at the right time. Two people would be easier.>>
This looked good – he was always pretty good about running in towards the wing, it was exiting it at top speed which he could improve… which would then get him to run to the wing faster. He was already faster here – I would keep doing this with one adjustment: you were tossing the ball so it came to a stop just a few feet past you, so he was decelerating too. Do this in a bigger space so you can toss the toy for miles and miles and he can run run run 🙂 If he likes a hollee roller, you can get a large one (even put a tennis ball in it) and toss it really far – the hollee rollers are great for scooping up at a run without slamming into the ground at all.
>>Maybe restrained recalls to work on drive to me? A first pole and dragging the lure around 5he wing? He’s gung Ho about lure coursing and dock diving and Nosework.
For the true conditioned response we want (aka value transfer) you can use the flirt pole or lure… but not as a lure. It has to happen after he chooses the wing wrap. I think you running and throwing the ball ahead will work wonders for drive to you 🙂
>>Maybe since he was so anxious when I started agility and we had to be on tip toes to keep him from eating, not let him get stressed, the drive just didn’t get built in. Maybe just more time and confidence because it’s more complicated than his other sports.>>
Agility is indeed a SUPER complex sport with a really difficult jumping effort! Keep working on super fun reinforcement strategies and keep the bars low, letting him really feel the joys of running 🙂
Tracy
Hi! Really nice session here!
Tossing the ball on the first rep did help the jump (go) cue but maybe do a warm up right wrap first 🙂 That might have made it harder to go from the go line to the wraps. I definitely heard a big difference between the right and left wrap cues, in both cadence AND pitch! NICE!! You can add a different cadence to your jump (go) cue – make it really loud, almost urgent (because on a straight line at the end of a 230 yard course, it is going to be urgent LOL!!!) Wrap cues are more chill, go line cues are loud and urgent (PLEASE GOD GOOOOOOO!! haha)!Her left wraps looked great! The right wraps were harder, as you mentioned. One idea to help her out with those is to use handling, but in a slightly different way: rather than be a good handler and be on time with your handling, say the verbal while you move forward and *then* do the FC to help assist with the right wrap. The new cue (verbal) will then come to predict the old cue (FC) which strengthens the new cue and helps eliminate the failures. Let me know if that makes sense! The trick is to do the FC after the verbal, which is hard because we humans like to do them simultaneously LOL!!!
I think she is ready for more motion on these! And you can definitely start the week 2 games 🙂
Great job!
TracyHello and welcome!!! There is plenty of time to play the games – we will get them all posted than have weeks at the end for anyone who needs to finish them up : )
>>Here’s our verbal cues list with some of the specific criteria. I’m building this as we go.>>
Yay! But also Notion won’t let me see it – it thinks I am trying to set up my own blank page. Can you do a copy/paste of it?
Thanks!
TracyHi!
Have fun with the games! And if you click on the little box in the lower left corner below your reply that says “Notify Me Of Follow-Up Replies Via Email”, you’ll get an email with the reply and also a link to come directly here 🙂Tracy
Howdy!
>>One thing I did want to make sure I understand is if/when you add in correct handling cues back in for this exercise vs isolating the verbals. Looking forward to tomorrow’s live night.
Great question! And I already have handling on my list of things to discuss. But, basically, in this class we are going to do things backwards: start with a bit of handling to help solidify the verbals, then take it out more and more… then eventually show the OPPOSITE handling and see if the dog can still process the verbals. Wheeeee! So for the stuff she is getting good at, like the wraps, start taking out the proper handling help. For the new stuff? Start with some handling then we will take it out more and more.
T
This is not a blooper reel, necessarily – you were doing more of the 360 wraps that you’ll see later in the class 🙂 But I could see you thinking as you were stopping, almost like “wait, this doesn’t feel right” LOL!!! He was perfect, though, good boy!
And I realize that I forgot to mention that this turn and burn game with the cones is a great generalization game – you can pretty much throw the cones in your car and take this game anywhere, to help him learn the joys of ‘working’ in a variety of new environments!!!
Tracy
Hi! To clarify – are you using your soft turn verbals only for rear crosses, or for any soft turn?
No need to rear crosses for now, because the handling is creating the turn more than the verbal on those. We will work those in later in the course.
THi!
Work a bit of both:
Week 1 to keep working on the smooth transitions into sends without jumping up, and sorting collection mechanics while adding a bar.
You can start week 2 game 1, but no bar there yet til he has more time to sort the collection mechanics on the wraps.T
Good morning!
Ewwww, snow. I am NOT a winter person LOL!!!
Really nice session here:
The delayed “out” of the toy (when she is less stimulated, she is good with speedy outs) and the speed of her approach to the wing is an indicator of arousal – and she was still able to produce really nice first reps here! And great job for you for running forward but not helping with physical cues. It is worthwhile to move it to all difference places in the yard, because even small changes can make a big difference!She was a little wider towards the end on both sides – but still correct, so we will take it happily! Yay!
So with that in mind – for your next “first reps” session, do a single warm up on the wing to each side, as you did here. If she is correct, replace the wing with the jump. And then repeat what you did here, but with the jump instead of a wing. And of course, keep me posted 🙂
One other idea: let her watch another dog do it first, to simulate seeing other dogs at trials. If my memory is correct, your other dog might be a bit old for this, so maybe you can do something else? Then grab some friends and let her watch other dogs running or playing ball or something – it is a great arousal stimulator 🙂
Great job!!
TracyHi! Nice work on these videos!
>>I tried to convince Sandy to replace it with turf, but was unsuccessful!
Turf is expensive, sadly. And the slipping did make it harder for her. But spring will be here soon!
>>t was snowing a bit outside and right now I only have one jump at my house, so my options were limited. I need to build more jumps so that I can work at home!)>>
For the wing stuff, you can use a big traffic cone or one of those pop up laundry barrels from Walmart or Target – they are light, so I put stuff in it to weigh it down 🙂
First video: Looking really good!!!
For these games, start with a very clean line up so she is at your side, facing the wing before you start each rep. On the check check check side at the beginning, you had her in different sides and she was not quite ready, so she had a few errors. But on the dig dig side, you were much clearer in your line up and she was great!!!
And great job starting with food and then going to toys – she was super successful with the toy, even though it is more stimulating. Yay!And yes, even with the wing wrapping and not jumping… the floor is too slippery for her to be able to dig in to properly make these turns and hit criteria. I think the weather is better now so I suggest only doing these on grass, dirt or turf because she can’t move her body correctly on the mats.
2nd video:
Your mechanics of lining her up and your reward placement looked good here! You two are really becoming a smooth working team 🙂The bar knocking is because of the footing (yet another reason to only work her on grass or dirt or turf: so she doesn’t rehearse dropping the bar). On that very first rep, she did a lovely job getting organized to wrap nice and tight – but she just cannot get good enough hind end grip to lift off properly even on an 8 inch bar. She then started to compensate after that with shortened striding and hind end lifting, (or slipping on her front end when she landed) which we don’t want.
Then you did a bunch of GO reps in a row (much easier for her to do those on the footing) and she did well! At :45, your check verbal had the same running forward as the GO reps – so she did a GO. And because the GO is soooo much easier on this footing and the wrap is incredibly difficult – she is going to migrate the easier behavior if it remotely looks like you cued it. When you slowed it back down (and reminded her with the chair), you got the behavior back.
>>It also seems like the closer that she jumps to the wing, the more likely she is to knock a bar. I had dropped these down to 8 inches, which she shouldn’t be knocking, but yet she was. Any suggestions?>>
It is the footing. She is 1000% trying to do it correctly but the footing is creating issues for her. She did get back into the groove of the wraps but the footing is really holding her back. So even though you have access to this training space… it is not useful for agility at her level of handling training now.
3rd video: she did well here! She was looking at the distraction jump a little bit but never took it, good girl, even when it was closer to the wing.
As with the first game, be sure to line her up at your side so she is facing the direction you want her to go – if she is looking at you, then it is harder to send her into the wing cleanly. You can totally lure her into position with a cookie!I know I am obsessing with the footing… but even on this game, she was compensating to be able to make the turn. She is holding herself tight to avoid slipping but that doesn’t allow her to move freely in and out of the turn – and when she tries to move freely, she slips or spays. All of that can lead to injury so we want to be super careful! Take all of these games outside now 🙂 so you can add more handler motion and so she can work out how to go fast AND turn tight while keeping bars up. Fingers crossed for NO MORE SNOW!!!
Great job here!!!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
