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Good morning!
Great list you have here! Bear in mind that you can prioritize the training and not have to train them all at once 🙂 She is young and you have plenty of time to work on them.
>>• Extension On A Line: Go!
• Lead Change Away On A Line: Get out! (Could use some work)>>Sounds good for both of these
>>• Wrap Verbals: Left: Check check check; Right: Dig, dig, dig
• Loose Turns of Approximately 90 degrees: Left, Right>>Also great!
>>• Backside Slice Verbal: I’ve used Back back back meaning take the back side of the jump, but I haven’t usually used it for a slice. Perhaps it still works here?
When you were using it, did she generally take the jump or did you have her do a full circle of the entry wing? If it was generally taking the jump, then that counts as a slice 🙂 The backside slice cue covers everything on the backside except the full circle wrap.
>>• Backside Wrap Verbal: Hmm…I don’t have a verbal for this…and I can’t use yours of dig dig dig. Any suggestions?
Some good ones I have heard are zipzipzip – and I don’t think that sounds like any verbals you already have. Or zing zing zing. Or tight tight tight.
>>• Jump Threadle Slice Verbal: This sounds familiar from MaxPup, though admittedly I haven’t worked much on this. Close works for me, but need to work on it.
Yes, we did this in MaxPup 🙂 But no worries if you have not worked it much – it is a relatively low priority for youngsters because we don’t really see it on course until the dog is competing at the highest levels. You’ve got time 🙂
>>• Jump Threadle Wrap: No verbal for this. Your “In in” could work for this but I kind of want something complimentary to the backside wrap verbal.>>
In in is a good one! It doesn’t have to be complimentary to the backside wrap because it is so different, and it might be easier to remember if it is wildly different 🙂
Great list!
TracyHi! You can add the dig dig dig and check check check when you get to the 3rd new game this week (the Combo Game Challenge) – but don’t do that til you have done the 2 soft turn games.
Great idea to enter UKI!!! I *highly* recommend you run NFC with a toy to get him happy in the trial environment while teaching him that stays apply, etc. I was just in Florida and ran all 3 of my baby dogs NFC, the whole weekend – I started off making the toy really obvious and then with the 2 ‘older’ puppies, I started to hide the toy so it looked like a ‘real’ run but I could still surprise them with the reinforcement in the ring. With my youngest baby dog (not yet 2 years old), I ran with the toy the whole time – it was her first trial and also she has never really trained anywhere else (Covid, plus I am a slacker LOL).
I had a plan to work on very specific things in each run, and each dog did an amazing job. The Qs that I gave up this past weekend are totally worth it in light of the great future ahead :). And I didn’t get some pressure from people about running them for real, for the Q (they looked really good!) but I resisted: training the baby dogs is more important than getting a Q with a baby dog. Keep your eye on the long term goals!
Tracy
Good news about the Treat n Train! She does really like food, so I guess she is developing more patience because it takes so long to spit out the cookies LOL
Good morning!
He looks fabulous 🙂 Bending nicely, great commitment, and turning his head into the turn which helps all of the mechanics of the turn. YES! And I didn’t see a difference between the left and right turn – both directions looked equally strong. Double YES!!! And it was a super high rate of success session, so he worked with speed and excitement, but also relaxed and happy: a perfect combo.My only suggestion here is to change the direction of the game – instead of having him do the turn and you run to the side wall or towards the crates, you can turn the game perpendicularly so you have the full length of the room to run away (away from the camera). That can take things to the next step where you can leave even sooner and gradually add more and more challenge. Then eventually the game can go outside, but I think you might have snow on the ground at the moment?
And yes – bring on the barrels! He is ready! Great job here 🙂
TracyHi!
Hope you are having a good weekend!>>I never realized I said ready all the time. I even found myself doing it today and had to be really mindful of not saying it. >>
I feel that pain – I say ‘ready’ all the time too, and I also tend to yell YES! at the worst possible moments on course hahahaha.
Video 1:
Perfect job helping less with the handling and facing forward more! She did really well on the left turns. She missed her first right turn and clicked the bar on the 2nd one, indicating that it is harder on that side (for whatever reason). So when you play this again, you can add more speed to the left turns but keep the right turn reps at a walk.Video 2 (game 3) – I am really liking how she is organizing herself for the turn before takeoff! Nice collection, she is on the correct part of the bar, her head is turned. And she doesn’t appear to be looking at the distraction jump 🙂 the interesting thing that she is doing is after she lands, and is turned… she hesitates there for a moment as if waiting for more info, before driving back down around the wing. So to help convince her to urn really fast back around the wing, you can throw the reward ahead of you rather than drop it, so she runs hard to it.
Great job here! New games coming tomorrow 🙂
TracyHi!
>>It zooms in more than my old one even though it’s zoomed all of the way out. So, you can’t see her sit stay.>>
No worries, I trust your training, and I sure she was great 🙂
>>She’s also just started her first season. Unfortunately, she spent 7 hrs in the ER yesterday after she ate her entire pants. Sigh…. Luckily I wasn’t gone too long and she didn’t need surgery. But, barely made it into the ER before they closed. That’s so scary that there’s no guarantee of 24/7 emergency vet care these days. She’s pretty normal today. Thankful!>>
OMG that is so scary on many levels!!! And I totally agree – no guarantee of emergency care is frightening. My little Elektra possibly had a snake bite but we sat in the parking lot for a couple of hours because after they did a quick assessment, she was not critical enough compared to the trauma cases that came in. I am glad Sprite is fine!
On another note, did you know that Door Dash will deliver to your car in the parking lot at the Emergency Vet clinic? I found that out in 2 different states.
She did really well on the video here!
>>She’s still taking off way too early. I’ll dig out cavalettis. Hope she doesn’t have ETO. However, I jumped Gemma at 20 in and before I could lower it Sprite leaps over it. I think she just needs more jumping practice to sort herself out.>>
I only saw one jumping effort that I did not like – and it was the last one, so we won’t know if she also didn’t like it LOL! I think she rushed her takeoff at 1:05 and got a little inverted. She did NOT do that on the other Go rep (:47) – she was lovely on that one. So my guess is she would have been lovely on the next rep too. Yo can experiment with what helps her choose her takeoff points – toy placed on the ground, or a wing to drive out to? Both of these are focal points to keep her looking ahead and head low, while you add motion.
She was definitely thinking about choosing good takeoff points for the collections – it was actually really interesting to see! She started off with “yes, I will add collection but how do I do the lead changes?” then she went to “oh this is cool, I can set the line with a bit more extension and still make a tight wrap!” then she went back to trying to sort out the more decelerated collection. It was all good – as the bars start to come up and she gets more experience, she will settle into whichever is faster/most efficient and that is great!
So, no worries about the jumping. She will let us know if she needs help; for now we will continue to give her plenty of experience to let her sort it out.
Tracy
Hi! Looking good here!
When working game 3, no need to wrap the side of the jump that isn’t near the distraction jump – it is too easy LOL!!! So the dig dig dig side here was the one the work, and then you can switch sides to work the other side too.He did really well here, didn’t seem to look at the distraction jump at all, even with your motion. NICE!! We will build this up to a higher bar later in the class, but this game gets used in a different way with the games posted tomorrow 🙂 He is ready! Great job here!
TracyHi!
>>What I noticed is that if verbals are the goal, I think the dogs work on my motion more than what I say- how do we ever hope to have verbals beat out motion? >>
I agree, dogs read motion the best – but we cannot outrun them, so verbals are important. We have verbals beat out motion by teaching the verbal so thoroughly that we can show opposing motion and the dogs still process the verbal 🙂
It is very systematic and takes a bit of time, but totally works!>>But it got me to thinking, the more we move, aren’t we by definition using our body language to cue what we want rather than the verbal? >>
In a perfect happy world, our body language always supports the verbal. But in training, we start with supportive body language then systematically strip it out, so the dogs respond to the verbals regardless of what we are doing.
On the videos:
With Desi (and all of the dogs, actually :)) you can repeat the cue so it is more like circle circle circle. Repeating it helped several ways:
– the repeat rhythm chops up the word and matches the deceleration of the collection that the dogs need to do. Dogs are very rhythmic!
– repeating it gives the dog more of a chance to process it. When running a course, the dog is processing a zillion things. So saying the verbal several times will really help the verbal ‘break through’ all of the other things the dogs need to process.She is doing really well overall!! You added all the challenges really quickly, so be sure to keep things clean and smooth. Just do one rep for each reward, try not to combine them like when you did the wrap and flipped her to the go at 1:50.
Speaking of the Go cues:
Is it GO or out for a straight line? You used both and I think it will help to isolate one verbal and strengthen it. When you cue the go, you can throw sooner – we are marking what happens on that first jump (going straight – we don’t need to wait for her to take both yet)So now we can build in more verbal understanding and change your motion: you can see she is ready for it at 3:11 when you movement away was opposing motion – you said her around cue and then left laterally – good girl to still take the jump and wrap tight! Yay!
So on game 1, just the wing (not the jump) – start next to her on the entry cone and after she wraps it, walk forward saying the wrap verbal but don’t turn or anything – just go forward til she makes a choice. By choice, I mean that you will see her turn and start to wrap. When you see that, you can do the turn and run and reward 🙂
Start by walking and if she is great for a bunch of reps… go to jogging. Starting at a walk teaching the skill and also builds better commitment! Eventually we build it up to running but that will take several sessions.
She is also doing well on Game 3 – be sure that you only turn her to the distraction jump, not away from it (that is too easy LOL!) For the next session on Game 3, she she found it a lot harder and was much wider. So go back to the wing in the next session and build up to running. When she is tight on the wing with your running hard, you can go back to the jump but also go back to walking.
Libby is also doing well!
>>Should we be doing drills with just the verbals and no motion? I saw a world team member at a seminar just say the word “push” while we were all sitting on the ground eating our lunch and her dog took the backside!>>
No, at this stage (assuming the dog has some experience with the verbals), there needs to be motion. There is nothing we do in agility where we want the dog to be perfect when we are not moving 🙂 the dogs need to be able to do it when we are running or moving away. So it is definitely fun to see the dogs do it while we are sitting in a chair 🙂 but it is, overall, not helpful for the future goals. I am quite confident the world team handler has worked extensively on the dog processing the backside cue while (s)he was moving or running the other direction 🙂 But with that in mind, we add motion systematically. The walk – jog – run protocol is key!
I think with Libby you went to fast motion, too quickly. You were moving pretty fast at the beginning and she was wide, so she was relying too much on motion for the exit. So, dial it back: just walk forward and let her set up for the wrap turn so she can make the adjustment before the wing and before the jump – you will see her get organized by slowing down to collect and turning her head as she approaches the wing or jump and turn much tighter on the exit. When you see her doing that, you can go to a job on the wing. Then eventually a run! And after you can run with the wing there, you will want to add the jump but start with walking because the organization effort is a lot harder with jumping involved.
When you started Game 3 at 3:35, I think you owe her a cookie 🙂 You were not in a good position at the start: you said around and pointed out the jump, so that is where she went, good girl. If around means “wrap to the right” and if she goes to the obstacle you are pointing at and wraps to the right… then she is correct and should get rewarded.
Going back to your question about motion creating the behavior (and your question about where they dog should be on the wing) – when you added the jump to game 3, you were running so she was wider. Go back to walking on these – her tight turns will tell you when you can go to jogging and then running (generally takes several short sessions)
I think it is especially important for Keifer to see this in motion, and that means it is also really important that you are walking so he can both be successful and learn the skill while motion is on the table.
>>the barking is better than a few years ago and like I say in the video, a lot of agility people tolerate lots of barking and even facilitate it which IMO, makes it worse. I have tried overlooking his barking just to see what happens and it does escalate bad behavior to let it go. The barking increases , he runs around , takes a few jumps, comes back, jumps on me, circles me- you name it. If it was just a little urp like you see in these videos, that would not bother me- but if I did not “reset” him each time and get him to focus, he would be barking constantly , circling me, jumping on me etc…>>
This is a huge behavior topic… but in a nutshell: the current plan is not working 🙂 If you have been punishing barking (telling him no, stopping, withholding reinforcement, resetting, etc – which are all punishers) and he both continues to bark and he displays frustration behaviors: then either he doesn’t know what he is being pushed for or he doesn’t know what to do instead… or both! So what you get is more barking, more arousal/frustration, in the environment where it is hard to avoid arousal.
And as you know, I am not a proponent of punishing when we can be building the behavior with reinforcement. He got a LOT of punishment here so the overall rate of success was not as high as it needs to be.
So I suggest you make a deal with him and we change the placement of reinforcement:
If he can bark without looking at you and go to the wing, he gets rewarded. And placement of reward is changed to always being thrown to the wing, never from you. If he barks and looks at YOU, or doesn’t go to the wing, no reward. But also no intense markers that he was wrong, because those only serve to frustrate/arouse dogs more. Lack of reinforcement makes it pretty obvious that he was incorrect, so just reset and try again. If he fails twice, you adjust and get closer or move more slowly.
His sessions will look like this:
He can start on your right., 4 or 5 feet from the wing Cookie or toy is in your left. You say the verbal, start moving forward to the wing a walk.
There are two outcomes:If he goes to the wing (even if he barks) throw the toy/cookie to the other side of the wing. Hooray!
If he turns his head and barks at you, reset at your side (just call him back) and try again.
I am not saying we put up with barking – I am saying that he might not actually know he is barking, it is a little like a tic! That is not unusual in dog behavior. And then when he is told he is incorrect, frustration/arousal increase so he barks more, and it ia bit of a vicious cycle. But If we change the criteria and placement of reinforcement, I think he will learn what you want better (which will reduce barking) and a great by-product is that barking will decrease because he is less frustrated/aroused.
Let me know what you think! Nice work here!
TracyHi! Thanks for this clip!!!
The wrap verbal was basically on time… but that made the right right right verbal late (he was hearing it after he had made a takeoff decision, so it was too late for him to adjust and turn tight). Was able to put in a little collection but I think if you drop the wrap and just use the right (or use wrap for one direction and a different verbal for another) you will be able to get even better turns!Tracy
Wow, that is great!!! Are you going to be anywhere else that you can play this game? We can use this setup to generalize the behavior to different environments 🙂
T
Great job with the session, Auntie Jamie! Super happy with this session, it had a good balance of craziness 🙂 and excellent responses on all the cues! Yay! It looks like on all of these reps, you were a little ahead of her – that totally helps and she nailed it. So…. rather than repeat anything here, let’s can it up
Since she is really strong with the momma and the auntie out ahead, but less sure of herself when she is asked to drive ahead, the next session can be with you starting much closer to the start wing, so you and Roulez exit the wing at virtually the same time. That way you (momma or auntie) can be driving forward, and giving either the wrap or go cues with Rou needing to drive ahead and execute the cued behavior.
Yes, start with a fast walk or slow jog at first, and don’t make any big attempt to help with handling.
And since Roulez prefers to turn rather than drive straight, I suggest for her that you do more reps of the Go Go Go! The behavior we are looking for on the GO with you behind is that she jumps the first bar straight – if you see her doing that, throw the reward. No need to wait for her to take jump 2 before you throw at this stage, because throwing for jump 1 will really build confidence 🙂And you can also do this with game 3: start closer to the entry wing so she drives ahead of you into it, which means she will need to respond more independently on just the verbal.
Great job, Team Roulez! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I hope you are having fun at the trial! And that is FABULOUS news that she nailed a wrap after the frame! Super!!!!!
Tracy
Ha! Yes, glad to be on the same page as you! He is a baby dog and I am sure you want a long, successful career… and started too early tends to break dogs, not make dogs. Plus, there are so many awesome training in the ring opportunities that you will be able to reinforce him a lot in the ring before asking for anything ‘real’ – it is a great way to set the youngsters up for long-term success!
T
Hi! Sorry for the delay, it has been a weekend of terrible internet!!! But I am back in civilization now 🙂
>>He’s digging in nicely, but should I be running as I’m throwing the ball in order drive into me? He’s digging in on the turn. >>
I see what you mean about him making a nice turn… but not really digging in until he sees the ball thrown. Ok then, let’s get smart with reinforcement (or at least try to be smart LOL!!!)
Since chasing the ball seems like the big primary reinforcement for him, what if we did this:
– you cue the wrap, doing exactly what you did here
– as soon he as commits, you take off and run but *don’t* throw the ball yet
– as you are running, watch him: when he digs in with that extra oomph (<---- scientific term), THEN you throw the ball. So basically we are eliciting the digging in behavior (with you running, because standing still won't do it) and then reinforcing it by throwing the ball. And the value of that will transfer into the rest of the wing wrap, so he will drive around with more digging in, because it is the fastesst/most efficient way to get the ball thrown. You can also throw a disc or do a roller. And if you have a third hand 🙂 you can click the moment you see him digging in before you throw the reward (or ask Cal to do it? Cal has the eye to see the difference between simply going around the wing and really digging in). Let me know what you think! Let's tackle this digging in issue before we add the jump - digging in is something you've been working on a lot and also digging in will change his approach to the jump, so let's get that going before we ask for it over a bar. The jump part will be easy when we have the digging in 🙂 Tracy
