Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning! Sparky was awesome here! Lots of real world distractions and he was perfect.
The cookies can be in your pocket now (I think they were on a few of the reps anyway). I don’t have any other feedback other than telling you how great the session was 😁 In the next session, you can wait one more heartbeat before reaching for the pocket to help prolong the engagement. I LOVED the barking dogs in the background, what a fabulous distraction even if the person taking the video was telling them to be quiet LOL!!!
What do you have coming up in terms of classes or practice runs? We can start planning more fun! Looking forward to the line up games – great job here!
TracyGood morning! This looked really good!
I think the timing and correct words can be challenging for everyone, especially as the spot evolves and we add MORE words 🙂
One thing that helps with correct and timely verbals is to do walk throughs several times without the dog. Then when can run it correctly without the dog… then we add the dog 🙂 that helps us sort all the verbals and timing out really well.
The Bluetooth mic is awesome!!! So clear!!!Lots of good work on the videos here, his commitment is lovely and you were really strong with the verbals and timing!
On the Go reps – when using the toy, you can throw sooner, as soon as he is in the tunnel. The TnT totally helped as a good focal point when you added it and he gets a MASSIVE GOLD STAR for ignoring it on the left turn tunnel exits, Yay!!
As you work the GO exits, be more connected – yo can exaggerate the eye contact with your dog-side arm back. I think part of his question on some of the exits was that he could not see the connection so he looked at you. Even when you were way ahead at :41, there was not a lot of connection so he was unsure of where to be – the added eye contact will help that.He is doing a great job with the turns on the tunnel exit!!! You can keep saying the verbals earlier, but you can also make them sound different. The GO can be loud and urgent and the left/right verbals can be softer and calmer.
He was a little wide on the very first left at :14 but then pretty perfect on the rest! He did take the extra wing on the way to the tunnel a couple of times (like at :29) but that was where the physical cue sent him, so he was a good boy on that.
Rights also looked good!!! Super nice!
On the racetracks around the wings in both directions (:25 and :55) add more connection with your dog-side arm back, try not to look forward ot point forward. That connection break is causing him to look at you (he isn’t sure which side of you to be on) so you are getting a little bit of a zigzag.
And the very end, he had a little question on that last go but I think it was that there was not enough acceleration or urgency (you were tired :)) so definitely add that to make the go sound very different to help propel him onto the line.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Lots of good stuff here! How did today go?
Yes, starters standard can take a lifetime LOL! Having her do action tricks that early was probably too early, too soon before the run? It is hard to know but that is something (how early to start the tricks) that will reveal itself in the next few weeks too
On question from this video and the other 2 videos because it was a little hard to see: was she offering the engagement in the pattern moments (like the hand to hand cookies, or the up and down moments) or were you cuing it? That will help us plan for what is next.
The other thing I can think of it that sometimes it is a lot of layers of criteria to get the engagement you want and the stay and the first jump… so you can totally mix in tunnel starts! She likes tunnels 🙂 so if you can walk in and she offers engagement when the leash comes off, you can totally just send her into a tunnel and run run run. It is a nice balance to the control of a start line stay.
This is good news about the focus on you at the line! And yes, it is reasonable to make it harder but sounds like the environment did that for you (by changing the running order) and plus she might be mentally fatigued (engagement is definitely tiring :))
When is your next trial/seminar?
Totally understandable about the barking on cue. Was Pip taught the bark as a trick, or does he like to bark? I have not seen the non-stop barking in dogs who have been taught it as a trick, but it is possible that Pip is the first I’ve met LOL!
Keep me posted about how today went!
TracyGood morning!
The jumping form question for now is more a matter of finding the sweet spot of distance for her. Many dogs will stride these grids that way she does and have most excellent jump form on full height jumps course. If she is fast, her mechanics are good and her form is good, then the exactness of foot placement is not a concern 🙂
On the serp versus tunnel versus threadle game:
She did really well! Those threadles were especially fabulous! You can start adding a little motion for those too.
Speaking on motion: When doing the serps versus tunnels, maybe add motion after a couple of successful reps of stationary serps rather than after a couple of tunnel reps to build the value of the potential of motion on a serp even when a tunnel is right there. I think the errors came when there was a moving serp right after tunnel cues. So you can dial up the focus on the serp motion by building it off the stationary serps, and if that goes well we can alternate moving tunnel and serp reps in future sessions. You can also release her sooner on the moving serps so that you don’t end up stopping (because there is a tunnel in your way LOL) – we don’t want her to build that into the cue, so you can release just after you pass the first wing, rather than all the way at the 2nd wing.One other thing to note – I think you were using your get it marker for reward from hand, but I think you have a strike for that? We need a database of everyone’s markers LOL!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The rear crosses are coming along nicely! All of your GO lines looked great, and also the right turn rear crosses looked great. I agree, the left turns were harder – either because the right is her better side, or she had just gotten all that reinforcement to the right (or both :)) So for the next session – start with the left and see what happens. Do one do where she is in your right side for the Go (which rewards to her left side) then do a rear cross turning her to her left.My only other suggestion is to use your reward markers for the tossed toy rather than a “yes” because we don’t want her looking for a reinforcement on a yes marker.
And I am glad you are having fun with these – that is great considering that I know that rear crosses are totally your favorite thing hahahaha
Serp versus tunnel also looked good – that extra heartbeat seemed to totally help. Next time – be close enough to the serp jump to touch it so that she makes the second turn to the tunnel. Start with one or two without motion, than add motion by assuming the position, then moving, then releasing 🙂
Regarding the grids and toys: It is pretty common for young dogs to be pouncy for the toy, so. I am not concerned – as long as the toy is either slowly dragged or stationary miles away, the pounce won’t be anywhere near the jump (I have not seen a pounce on a dragging toy yet, in two sports LOL)
And because grids are all about mechanics – if something is not working for her, change it up 🙂 You can teach her the spider contraption separately from a jump, especially a spread with another jump past it. That is a lot of visual processing for a baby dog. And you can work the very straight line up on one jump. Starting half the distance away from the jump is the Salo recommendation but I have found that the very close engages the hind end sooner than the halfway distance, when we obsess on video after video, and also disallows disorganization of the front feet. Yes, I like to obsess LOL!!!
Nice work here! Have a great herding day!!
TracyHi! I have a whole bunch LOL
It might be the Aerobie Dogobie, those are great.
I also get cheap fabric frisbees from Tractor Supply because they get destroyed pretty quickly.
THi!
>>Toys and food are allowed. So just do normal start line entrance without any action tricks? And do the tricks before we enter. >>
Definitely play around with pattern games and action tricks outside the ring, while waiting. Any time you see him get distracted, do a few reps of the pattern game.
Then when it is your turn, jog to the line (no tricks) with , take the leash off and see if he offers engagement. If he is able to do it: cookie time
If he is not, ask for a couple of action tricks. You’ve got plenty of time on the start line so don’t feel pressured to start until he is ready.>> For the run, should I keep the reward in pocket or hands?
Since he already knows you have the treats, do whatever is easier 🙂 then at the end, run to reward at your reward station.
Keep me posted!
TracyHi! BOO on the crappy weather but fingers crossed that spring shows up sooooooon!!
Wind in your hair, rear cross edition:
This is great to work on because it really sorts out the handler mechanics! It was a big of too-much, too-little, just-right and lots of really lovely reps.
Looking at the different cues:
For the GO reps, your running line should be on the outside of the wing (not between the uprights at all) and be careful not to be moving to the center of the bar (:02, :05, :31). That pressure to the center of the bar can be a RC or backside and not a GO. You were closest to being on the outside of the bar at :59 but still more pressure than needed for a GO line. So you can send her around the start wing from further away so you can just run forward past the jump.Looking at the RCs:
The left/right verbals are the way to go, no need for a GO on the RCs because it is a different behavior (straight on the same lead versus turn away on a new lead).You had a GO at :10 then your right was when she was over the bar so she was a very girl to turn right as soon as she heard it. And at :35 you were saying GO the whole time but rear crossed – she totally judged you LOL!
:14 – perfect use of verbal. But physical cue (running line) completely supported the backside wrap from the instant she exited the start wing. The same happened at :27. If she does end up on an accidental backside, have her finish the wrap then reward, just to keep that behavior solid so she doesn’t get in the habit of pinging off the jump and getting rewarded from your hand.
You were getting really good with your RC lines:
:18 was better for the RC but a little L-shaped in the running line (straight then center of the bar) so she got it right but was also MILES ahead of you, left you in the dust.
:24 was MUCH better and note how you did NOT get left in the dust – we always want to get ahead again after a RC not be doomed to RCs for the rest of the course LOL
:41 to the left also good – she didn’t turn as well but it could be all of the reinforcement that went to the right earlier in the session .
:46 – super good!:50 – too soon she was not really past you, so she was like WHAT THE HECK hahaha
:56 good! Loved this one!!Definitely keep working the RCs, you’re gonna need them: partially because she is so fast and partially because course design trends are requiring them more.
Serp v tunnel –
Tunnels are so delicious. LOL!!! I think you need a session or two without motion for this, because she was lined up facing the jump and still wanting the tunnel 🙂
So change her line up position for the session session, so she is past the first wing of the jump by a foot or two (the one further from the tunnel) and she should be in a stay facing the tunnel (not facing the jump). Eek! LOL!!! And stand completely still in serp position, release…. and don’t catch her on the toy to prevent the tunnel. Let her choose. If you are stationary and have not said tunnel… there should be no tunnel LOL!
One other thing that will help is if you assume the position for at least 2 seconds before the release. She has a great stay, so get into position (serp with the open shoulder, or tunnel cue with the closed shoulder), smile at her take a breath… then release. The releases and physical cues were coming almost simultaneously which didn’t quite give her enough time to process. So let her see the position for 2 seconds, then release.And if she is very strong with that, we add the motion back in but as with the stationary reps, she sees you moving while doing the physical cue… and after a couple of seconds, you give the release. That should help her processing and also help add motion!
On the grids – was she pouncy to the dragged toy? I did notice that she was pouncy to the dead toy which made her pouncy one the jumps. If she is pouncy on the jumps with the dragging toy… then the toy is too close. The dragging toy is an excellent de-pouncer and should be pretty far away – when you had the toy way far away on the last couple of reps at 12” towards the end – I really liked those!!! Not sure if the toy was stationary or not on those but having it 6 miles away was GREAT. Your training partner 🙂 has been doing Salo grids for decades, literally, and I am sure the dragging toy concept is, um, different hahaha 🙂 I call it ‘evolution’!
I think this spider to the double at the beginning was really hard for her – she is hoisting her hind end more than powering from it and I think it is at least partially because she is getting ready to stop (the dead toy is pretty close and there is a jump right behind it, so she has to decelerate over the spread because she cannot run through the toy. When you added the jump past it, she was using her neck a bit and probably needs the toy further there too. One other thing to watch for on the spider… set her up straight. She was sideways on these, and also looking away on a couple of the releases, and that changed the organization of the step-in moment.
I agree that Doppler’s distances were a bit big and she was happier at the slightly smaller distances. I also think that when the toy is dead in front of the jump, she spends her time thinking about how to decelerate to stop rather than used her hind with power through the grid (it reminds me of the big fast dogs in flyball: when running to the box, it is a game of balanced deceleration because they have to turn). The agility grid should have an exit that she can move through because the mechanics of all that decel are not necessarily what we want on this grid (the dogs get off balance and are thinking about stopping).
I thought the last couple were the best! She didn’t have to stop, she just needed to organize the mechanics.She is double tapping before the first jump sometimes (like at 1:03 but not at 1:18) so be super consistent about where you set her up – organizing without the double tap is great to getting her on her hind end.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyOMG! Cliffhanger! The video shows everything except the run LOL!!! I think the engaged chill went really well. I totally saw her get interested in the big fast BC! In that moment, the pattern game will be your friend. I recommend the short sideways tosses if you are kneeling, and the shoe version (up and down) if you are standing. For dogs that know the pattern games, it totally becomes a cue to engage with you, without actually being a cue to engage if that makes sense LOL!!! Plus it gives her a choice: play the game or engage with the environment.
That is very black and white for us handlers: either she chooses engaging with the game, and then you can move into the more active tricks if you are close to running or back into the engaged chill if you have a while.
If she cannot disengage from the environment, then we move further away from the distraction.
I think she will choose to engage with you!
And right at the gate, as she was ramping up because it was ALMOST TIME TO RUN, you can do one more revisit of the pattern game up and down (cookies on shoes).
It looks like you had good toy play on the line and good engagement!!!! YES!!!
What happened next? LOL!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>> For goals: 1. Focused on the way to the start line vs having to work to re-engage her when I get there.
Try coming in with a lot of energy and play, as if she just won the title of Waiting Outside The Ring Champion 🙂 What is your normal order of festivities on the way to the line? Do you have any magic words, like “ready”?
>>2. Clears the first jump
This will relate directly to goal 1, I think, and you can totally reward it!
>>3. Commits to obstacles
And if she doesn’t, I generally recommend NOT fixing and just running faster with more connection and more verbals and finding a tunnel to throw the dog into (very stimulating which can overcome the environment). You might already be doing this LOL!
>>I have only done NFC with a toy visible. I will try 2 balls in class at home first. Although it is a good idea, she ability to bring back a toy is much worse under stress. We are still working through ball tug exchange in flyball (where I can control variables).>>
Sounds good! If the ball is stimulating, you can have it in your hand on the way to the line and then into a pocket, see what happens 🙂 I rehearse a ball-ball exchange for Hot Sauce, because balls are LIFE and she is best at bringing and giving if there is another ball in my hand LOL She has me well-trained 🙂
>>It is interesting that you have been able to do snooker NFC. I have had judges say no.
I will find out for you without naming names 🙂
>>Also of note, we are first in the height Saturday and not first Sunday. She tends to run better first 16. She also runs better small to tall Sat is tall to small. I will try to find a way to video all the runs and will try to post when I can.
Perfect! And send updates 🙂
>> The week before this class started Lanna hit herself in the face with a bottle toy (her absolutely highest dollar toy). Although she is playing with bottle (and various other toys) in all other situations, she clearly possesses no desire to play with a toy at the barn. I tried last week with an assortment of toys and it was a hard no. So this week she ran for food. She was much happier and looked much better. She ran off once at the very beginning of her first turn but then got progressively more focused. I forgot to do the pattern game on resets round one, but did better round 2.>>
Reinforcement is decided by the reinforced, so if she wants to run for food for now – perfectly fine 🙂 And we can insert more toy or ball play into that so eventually it can be toy. But establishing the behavior with food in the barn? Wonderful!!! I am a big fan of the “get the behavior” mantra and everything else (like toys in distracting situations) can be added in later). Have you considered a foodie toy like a lotus ball or treat hugger? They are more throwable than nekkid cookies and you can tie them to a toy for her to chase around like a toy 🙂
Barn video 1 – some general notes, I thought this was a great session! You had good volume dial/cued engagement – you can be even more active with the tricks and reward delivery (the pattern game is a passive reinforcement style but you can be wilder and running around more with the volume dial tricks, or use a foodie toy tied to a longer toy to swing around).
Starting her down at the other end is clever and set her up for success!
Hard to see what was happening with the line up – did she offer engagement when you took the leash off?
Cookie delivery adding the spins and stuff you did after the weaves was a fun active style of delivery! If you find that it is not enough, you can do the spin then move away from her for a few steps, then deliver the treat.
Was she jumping a lower height here? It totally helped and also she still has some trouble coordinating herself (her butt was higher than her shoulders sometimes) which indicates
How much she is processing! I forgot to mention in the NFC discussions in the class that I always start my dogs at the lower height in competition and then eventually bring them to full height. Good engagement at the end and also I like the “all done” at the end for a nice relaxing sniff!Barn video 2: is this the 2nd session of the night?
How much does she weigh? Depending on how much she likes the off leash offered engagement, you can sometimes consider carrying her in when there are a lot of distractions and a long distance to the Start line.
Looked like pattern games on the start line here after some sniffing and she came into focus nicely! Then volume dial tricks – a bit of sniffing – try running back and forth with the food delivery and that is also a great spot to add in more barking on cue 🙂 if she will do it there
Nice job getting reinforcement in early when you did get her back, and ping ponging the # of jumps you did before reward was available. You can also do some non-stay starts to just let her rip into the sequence.
Tricks video:
Nice off leash engagement at the beginning! Great job with the leg weaving – super engaging trick and a great warm up too 🙂 You can fade the cues to smaller hand cues and then fade the cookies form your hands too!
Meerkatting also looks great 🙂
Next step – cookies in pockets 🙂 And then onwards to combining the tricks with the remote reinforcement!Off leash offered engagement – this is a BIG one for her. Wouldn’t it be so lovely if you could stroll to the line and then take off her leash… and BOOM! Perfect engagement 🙂 She doesn’t have to engage before you take the leash off in this environment, you can just move to a new spot and take it off to let her offer. She was a little sniffy when you arrived in the new spot, but now worries – take the leash off anyway because it becomes a cue for engagement (eventually): “Hey, your leash is off, I need your focus.”
BARKING ON CUE – YESSS!
She was great here, offering engagement and a sit as a bonus. Next step is to add this game into as many different places as you can take it. Any place where you don’t feel totally comfy taking her fully off leash, you can do it with 2 leashes- the agility leash comes off but the other leash stays on for safety.
Great job! Let me know how your day goes!
TracyGood morning!
True, it IS common decency and we are definitely not psychopaths hahaha
Looking at the line up game video –
Yes, she likes everything except the between the feet and dismount section. No worries – you don’t need the dismount, it is just a tool and we have a zillion other tools (and a zillion other games to play :)) So I would keep playing the version of this game where she runs to get the tossed treat then either back to your side or between your feet – but with the treat tossed immediately forward again especially for between your feet (no sit or dismount on that one).That way, this game can be used as a pattern game (tossing back and forth between your legs or from your side in a pattern, with her offering a moving engagement either to your side or between your feet). It can also be a good volume dial game because it can get her running (heart rate up, in a good way :)) So pattern game plus volume dial? Yes please! And it can desensitize being near your feet. And you can add the distractions of the step 2 games to this game as a pattern game between your feet and the stay at your side.
And yes, you can totally carry her in with the offered engagement games of the leash-off games. She might indeed be a dog that gets carried in because a ton of dogs love that! So you can carry her in and play around with putting her down (reward offered engagement) then leash off (reward offered engagement) or a different routine: taking the leash off before putting her down, then reward offered engagement.
I personally train both of those in case something goes awry in the entry to the ring or in case I forget hahaha – we don’t want the dog to ever be a a loss for what to do if the order of festivities changes.
Let me know if that makes sense! She is looking great!
Tracy
Hi!
>>So on the reward for the serp, every time I tried to put the reward on the ground she wouldn’t stop going straight to it. I know it’s something I need to work through. Any suggestions?>>
It is definitely something good to work through! You can start with an empty food bowl on the ground on your left side, and ask her to do a hand touch to your right hand, extended away from your body. Then drop a cookie into the food bowl.
If she can do that… start with the cookie already in your food bowl 🙂 before he hand touch, and use a ‘get it’ marker to tell her when she can have it. Then you can add in toys and such. That will make it easy to transfer to the serps. Let me know how it goes!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Thanks for the tip on hands. I will see how he reacts to me with water. He LOVES water and might think it’s a reward in my hand. I may need a gallon.>
LOL!! I have done this game with root beer floats in the summer heat: when it is hot, if I flail my arms around the the vanilla ice cream goes flying? Well, the dog gets a nice treat and it sucks to be me LOL!
>> Have you tried the air scenting where you show it to him then lift it above his head? Or you can try the mimic approach, where you sniff it first.
>>Above head was anything but chill with frantic paw offerings and attempts to sit pretty. The mimic worked first time I tried. Seems like cheese is working better as he sniffed it when I was putting on his harness with a piece in my hand. After our remote session, the empty cheese dispenser was on table by me and he came up and sniffed the air. So something with more smell.>>
Sounds good – the mimic method and really stinky treats can help. And standing up can help too – the little dude is excited about his food (totally relatable) so you can be standing up to do the mimic, as long as you can still see his little nose 🙂
The Remote Reinforcement Combo went really well! His little happy dance when you started with his front feet was SO CUTE. He was fabulous with his responses – crisp and attentive. Yes, you got some barking, but that is the excitement of the moment. He was really engaged. And I think Eskies can be vocal, so barking while being engaged is fine. I have Papillons and they are vocal too LOL! so I get some barking. It is all good and doesn’t cause problems on course.
Great job paying attention to the marker and also keeping the session short and fun! I would totally play these games at the fun run and at class, outside the ring. It will help us bring it into the ring!
>>During leash off he thought I had a cookie in my hand but it was empty.>>
He is an optimist LOL!!! That is pretty common: they do a hand-check to see where the food is and we are like, ‘there is no food in my hands’. He worked through it really well!
>>I know you didn’t consider mats >>
As long as you don’t have to be next to the mat and pitching treats every 3 seconds while he offers 1000 behaviors…. mats are good as long as the dog can truly relax. And it did look like he was calm and relaxed enough to clean his face! So yes, if you can hang out next to him on a mat or cot like this, and the two of you can just chill… perfect! Use it!
Great job here 🙂 For the gambler’s mock trial… you can use your time outside the ring (before your run) to do some pattern games and some tricks for treats. And if treats are allowed in the ring – hide a bunch of cookies in your pockets and walk to the start line with empty hands, as if it is a real trial. then take off the leash – if he offers engagement: BOOM! COOKIES! Then proceed into the run, rewarding as you like 🙂 And you can also have a reward station set up outside the ring, like you do at class. Let me know how it goes!
TracyGood morning!
For the take a breath game, you can have her up on a table so maybe her nose is more in your line of sight? I have bifocals too so it can feel weird when training in glasses.
>>I think I’m shaping a nose twitch not a breath?
It is more of a reflexive behavior, so when eliciting it with air scenting or the mimic move, she is very likely to be inhaling and not just twitching.
>> My sense / undocumented memory is that she gets right to work after a full body shake. If I see her twitch / stiffen like a shake is coming I stop what I’m doing and let her finish that.>>
It is interesting to note the shake-it-off moment. It is observable and we might be able to correlate it to a certain arousal state depending on what happens next.
On the video:
why do we all say “GOOD STRETCH” when our dogs do it? We all do that and it is hilarious LOL!!!!She seemed happily engaged here! Good ratio of trick-to-reward here.
I didn’t need to see her, I could tell from your response that things were going along nicely.
In the comfy home environment, you can start to ping pong in more tricks. And in newer environments and training class, do the 1:1 ratio like you did here, I liked her engagement a lot! You can even set up a little reward station near the start line at class and do this a bit on the way to the line (and you can have treats in your pocket for rewarding out on course during your turn).You were TOTALLY getting some breathing on the take a breath section here! A couple of them were hard to see on video, you at 2:06 and 2:20 you can totally sit her take a breath. She is not doing deeeeeep yoga breathing yet LOL but she is totally taking a breath and you are marking it. YAY!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
