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Howdy!
>> Hope you’re surviving the mechanic.
It is never good when you’ve waited 2.5 months for a part that was promised before the vehicle was picked up, and then the service folks don’t know why you show up with the vehicle. Sigh.
>>I have zero cavaletti experience so I’d love a zig zag for dummies guide.>>
Cavalettis are different from the zig zag – cavalletis are about the height of his wrists and about 20 inches apart (for him) or whatever distance gets a comfy trot going – straight line first, then angles and curves eventually.
I have video on the zig zags (which is for lead changes) and will dig them up and post.
>>I was noticing him using his head more as well. He really is trying so hard. Such a good boy.>>
Yes!!!! Totally great job for him with that – low head, using it to lead the bending.
>>I’m intrigued by the 2×2 here. I almost wrote 4×4 because we were talking groups. We initially switched from 2×2 to channels to target the swim motion. I feel like they will need to be fairly open to get the swim? How open would you advise?>>
I think you can have a ‘noodle’ session which is basically a reward-all-the-things session on 4 poles, starting really easy and the upping the criteria on each rep or every other rep (by tightening them) til we find the sweet spot. We left the 2x2s because he seemed like he wanted to swim and then in the channels, he couldn’t decide if he wanted to swim or bounce. He has done a bit of both! So you can try the 4 poles with both sets open about 6 inches (totally arbitrary number) and then if it is too easy – go to 5 inches, then 4 then 3, etc. The goal is a mini channel so see if we can help him pick a striding and stay balanced.
I am happy with whichever striding he wants to do – both are fast and I can give you examples of top level BCs doing swims and others doing bounces.
He is now staying in really well, so the final frontier is the striding. I feel like there is a key that he is missing and maybe these mini channels will help. Perhaps he wants to swim but can’t hold onto the balance needed (it is a lot of balance and core strength) so he needs 3 mini channels so he can recover the balance on the flat in between each.
T
Hi-
>> What is response to missing a pole in a set of 6?>>
On the first error, I just reset and try again. If it is the 2nd error (either the same pole or a different pole) then I make a variable easier: less motion from me, or easier entry. Or open up that pole if needed.
T
Hi there!
He did well on the teeter by itself in isolation, for sure! It was hard to tell which reps had the tunnel before them, but I am guessing the teeters at :31 and :52 were from the tunnel. On those 2 reps, he had more trouble controlling the speed and was not shifting his weight back (especially at :52, you can see his weight is forward and his front end is ‘swimming’ a little in the air, so he can’t control the bounce of the board). A couple of ideas for you –
On the more bouncy teeters (like this one, which is a MAX200) – weight it down with tunnel bags on the bases and on the chain, to reduce the bounce/whip of the board. That will help him balance and not get bounced off.
– to help him shift his weight, teach him to do it with speed using the crazy elevator game. Starting from a stay then a wing wrap, have him run up the board and get rewarded at the top as that elicits the weight shift and rewards it specifically. Then do the countdown – at which point you will see him looking down to the target, which also gets the weight shift. I am not sure if he has seen the regular start to the elevator game yet, so start there before adding the crazy elevator game. And then when he can do that… add the speed from the tunnel back in 🙂 The elevator games are harder for us humans in terms of mechanics, but it is worth it because it gets the speed AND the weight shift 🙂>> noticed that when there is a mistake he will offer a “4 on” and wait for me to cue the 2o/2o position. I have seen this on the dog walk and A-frame too so I am wondering how to address it. It doesn’t happen very often but does happen enough times that it could become part of the end behavior>
He is probably sorting out the weight shift on all 3 contacts – in that situation, I don’t re-cue the 2o2o position because it could indeed chain in the 4on behavior to the contact performance. I might wait for a couple of seconds to see if he can offer it. If not, I call the dog off the board, ask for a silly trick to reward, and try again. If he fails twice, I will make it easier for him to be successful, such as reminding him with a rep or two of the elevator game so he can get reinforcement for success before we add back the speed.
Nice work here! Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
>> Most judges will allow some form of training in the ring. It’s our time which we have paid for, so a long as we don’t take longer than the normal run, it should be fine. A lot of people will take a toy in the ring, do a series of maybe 3 obstacles and then leave. I have also seen people do a startline and then leave. Usually we would ask the judge before the class.>>
Perfect! That is definitely something to consider to help strengthen her start line. Reinforcement *before* she breaks the stay is best. If she breaks and then gets reset and then gets the reinforcement, you’re likely to find that she continues to break.
>>I don’t understand retraining vs a reset. I thought the reset was training if she failed the start and that rewarding backwards with the catch was teaching her where I need her to stay in position since if she doesn’t know if she will be rewarded backwards, she would stay and find out.>>
A reset is when the dog breaks and we go back to re-cue the behavior and try again. Resets are not ideal because she rehearses the incorrect behavior and then might get rewarded for the correct one, but doesn’t have a high enough success rate on that first (and, in trials, most important) rep.
Retraining is going all the way back and starting over, from the beginning. You can take a new position like a down and retrain the stay as if she si a 6 month old puppy, to create clearer criteria and maintain it all the way through long lead outs in competition. And bringing it into the ring with a toy so you can reinforce those first attempts in trials. The retraining should help eliminate the need for resets after failures and should also raise the success rate to closer to 100%.
>>ALthough I know dogs are masters of routine and predictability, I can see how I might be giving the game away with some subtle movement I only do when I am going to reward backwards vs release forwards.>>
I didn’t see that as the cause of her breaks here, you were not seeming to be preparing to throw a reward back when she broke her stay (plus she does it at trials where you probably were also not going to throw a reward back). There is a gap in understanding somewhere, so finding that and helping her will really help 🙂
>>If she has to be reset, how would you train differently so that a reset is not required?>>
I would start over, with a different position, to solidify the understand in all aspects of life and sport – mainly when she is stimulated. I didn’t count the errors versus successes, but it seemed to be somewhere in the 50% range which might reflect what is happening at trials when you lead out more than a few steps. That way, you have a blank slate and can reward early & often, gradually extending the duration and then taking it into the trial ring.
>>We did the setpoint exercise at the very beginning of this course. Is that what you meant?>>
Ah yes! That is right. You can work up to higher heights on that as part of a conditioning exercise. Does she have any plyometric conditioning in her toolbox? One of my dogs did the same thing, and it got MUCH better when I added plyometrics and more strength into his conditioning. I don’t think it is from the abdominal surgery, unless was not happening before it. Do you have any video to compare it to?
Let me know what you think!
TracyBoo about the wet weather, but I do think the plank will be fun! And I don’t put my dogs on the teeter (or dog walk) when it is wet because I don’t want to risk the fall. Better to be indoors!
Keep me posted 🙂
THi! Really strong session here! I liked how she was focusing on her target position (even before you released her to it) and she seemed to have a clearer understanding of where to go and where to look. And it was really independent of your body position – perfect! And was that Matrix trying to get in on the fun at the end? LOL!!!
My only suggestion is to clarify your reinforcement marker words: you were saying ‘yes’ and then tossing the treat (good aim, by the way!). And that is all good except you are probably not going to want her to think that ‘yes’ is a release word, it is more of a ‘nice job, keep going’ word. The releases I use from the 2o2o are either the ‘catch’ verbal (which means that the cookie is getting tossed back to you so you may release to get it) or the ‘break’ which is the release forward to me, to either then hear ‘get it’ for a reward out ahead or to continue on course. I know the reinforcement markers are a bit of a pain at first, but they will really help when you get to running the teeter in sequences.
For now, you can either take out the ‘yes’ and use the reinforcement markers, or you can say it very quietly before the reinforcement marker. I think with too much excitement, she might break her position.For the next session, you can totally do more of this with more running from you 🙂 And you can make it more like the bang game, starting her closer to the end of the board then having her leap into position on cue while you move away.
If she is super happy with it like she was here… I think you can put this position onto the teeter! I would work through adding the position progressively in this order:
– bang game
– downhills to the ground
– elevator game
– crazy elevator games
– full teeter 🙂If my memory is correct, she is already familiar with the bang game and downhills so that should be easy. The elevator game will also be easy for her – I think the crazy elevator game will be the uncharted territory but because he is confident, I am also confident she will do really well.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Clear markers are going to be our downfall.>>
Rehearse, rehearse, rehearse 🙂 I practice the markers and also turn directionals a lot in my head and without the dog present. The results are very motivating to keep them clear, so I rehearse and rehearse 🙂 OK, maybe I obsess a little too LOL!!
I thought this was a really good session – on all the reps where she was behind you, she was fast AND pretty accurate. On the last rep where you were ahead of her (the 2nd to last rep in the video) you can see how placement of reinforcement shifts behavior – all of the reinforcement before this was forward and for releasing off the board, so she was forward and basically off the board here. I do like her speed across the board and that little slide as she weight shifted, so one thing to do is after every 2 or 3 release-forward rewards when you are ahead, mix in 1 or 2 throw back rewards or rewards that you hand to her for staying in position and not anticipating the rewards. It is a big pendulum, right? The reinforcement placement will swing back and forward for a while. And that is why the marker rehearsal will make your life easier: you can eliminate the ‘yes’ marker entirely and let your reinforcement markers do the dirty work. 🙂
On the very last rep of the video, she was ahead of you and she was NOT as confident on that. Probably just lack of experience in being ahead, because basically everything we’ve shown her has you out ahead. So on the reps where you want her to drive ahead, you can use the billboard target for a bit longer (the smaller target was great for the other reps) and you can have a toy or MM placed out ahead as a focal point so she doesn’t need to think about where you are. I am sure with a bit more exposure to driving ahead that she will be just as fast and confident as she was on the other reps here.
Great job on these! And I am sure she will like the toy reward too 🙂Tracy
Good morning!
Good for her for working through the noise!!!! YAY! Watching the video, it looked like the noise was not really a distraction – the human manners minder was a bigger distraction LOL!!! But she worked through that too. Yay!
She was having some trouble with that left side entry, so a couple of ideas for you:
If she misses twice (twice in a row, or twice in a short amount of time), move to a different starting spot to help her find success. So if the left side entry was hard from that 10 o’clock angle, you can leave it and go to 12 o’clock or switch sides and try her on your right from 1 o’clock, for example. Then after successes there, you can try the hard angle again.I think the entry was the harder spot for her, she was vortexing towards the human manners minder LOL!! I don’t think poles 5-6 were the distraction 🙂 But that is good, she learned to ignore a favorite human! So one thing that can help is to have her start with you, get a reward from your hand, line her up… then send her. She was sending herself a bit to try to get down the line, so she kept missing. You can use a cookie to line her up where you want her.
I think she is totally on the right track here! We are getting close to straight poles now 🙂
>> haven’t yet given a cue but will do next session. I noticed that you repeat poles, poles, poles. Silly question, why do you repeat it? As you progress to 12 poles, do you continue to repeat it? I haven’t watched that far.>>
I do repeat them a bit, for two reasons:
– It adds a bit more support for the dogs as they weave independently from me
– pure superstition that it helps them hahahaha. I mean, it might not help them, but it makes me feel happy to still be involved even if they roll their eyes at me LOL!!!!As I progress all the way through, I don’t always repeat the cue while I am running because the dogs should really stay in without it… and I personally don’t have the lung-strength to run AND keep saying poles poles poles the whole time. I gotta breathe! So at this point with the youngsters, I am pretty quite on the easier challenges and I still repeat the cue on the really hard ones.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think.
TracyHi!
These were both good sessions for looking at variables and how to control them to set up for success. When you are adding challenge with the weaves, look for the other variables and dial them back so that he can still be successful in the weaves. And if it is a variable you can’t control (like 80 degree weather, eek!) then you can dial back the other variables like weave difficulty and length of session. It is quite the juggling act with our young dogs!On the first video with the Find Em game, the 2 variables that added difficulty were the heat and the wind. He was definitely hot and then he definitely did not like it when the wing blew over! In those moments, you can just work a straight easy entry to the weave or tunnel so he can get used to ignoring the wind and working in the heat (and short sessions too, it got hot fast and our pups are NOT heat acclimated like they will be in July and August).
And on the 2nd session, the cooler weather totally benefitted you! He did really well on the first part with the wing wraps. When you added challenge to the poles by getting that middle set just about closed, he couldn’t get it with the other variables still in place (wing wraps producing his speed and also you running) so that is where you can dial back the other variables: the first one I would look to dial back is his speed, so you can take out the wing wraps and just start him in front of the poles to kind fo say, “look, these are harder now”. He was totally looking at them but couldn’t quite sort out how to get in them. And then if he has 2 misses – You can dial back your speed too.
Let me know if that makes sense – I feel the pain of always trying to assess all the variables and get things “just right”. Truly a juggling act but it does get easier LOL!!!
On the next session, start where you left off here with the poles but start him right in front with a little bit of your motion and see how it goes – you can then quickly up the ante if he is happy with that 🙂Nice work!!! Fingers crossed for cool weather!
TracyGood morning!
I think your handling/movement looked good here! And I totally see what you mean by her having more trouble with the left side entries. It could be the visual of the other poles make it more challenging or she doesn’t see the entry as well as the wrapping that first pole on the right side entries. Either way, we can take a 2-fold approach to the training:
On the right side entries and the easier left side entries (like the straight-ish ones) – you can work on the 12 straight poles, getting them totally in line as one unit. She looks ready on that side!
On the left side harder entries… you can refresh them on 4 poles or 6 poles (without the 2nd set there) and then when she is more comfy with them, add in that 2nd set pretty far away so they are less visually distracting. If you do it on 4 poles, you can get a lot of success and reward right away, which is going to help her out.
Ideally we don’t open the poles back up or change your speed, unless she continues to have questions – then yes, open them up a little. But I would see how they go on closed poles and fewer poles at first.Then I think it will be straightforward to transfer the left side entries onto straight poles, because she will be experienced on the 12 straight because of her work on the right side and easier entries.
>> Yes, I did sign up for “Putting it all Together” – I thought that was the sequel to these courses! – duh! – but I thought that the “Camp” was only for more experienced dogs – if you think Yowza could cut it, I would love to put her in it. Please lmk – thanks!>>
No worries, sorry for the confusion – we don’t usually have the puppy classes run back-to-back for 2 generations of puppies but this has been a crazier year LOL! CAMP has several different levels so you can pick what you want to work her on – if it helps, my 2 youngsters are going to be the main demo dogs and they are similar to Yowza in skill level. There are some bigger courses that you can work parts of or try the whole thing, depending on how you think she will do 🙂
I can switch you over: did you want a working spot?Thanks!
TracyHi!
He did well here. You totally handled the drive by moments really well – I think they were caused by 2 variables changing at once, rather than one variable. The 2 variables on the misses were the added speed coming from the tunnel plus harder angles of entry (he did better when you set the line to the entry when he was on your left, and the entry when you had him on your right was a serp entry – hard!) On that serp entry, you slowed down to help him and we really want him to be able to get it with speed – so that is when you can open the poles a little.
He is definitely working out what he wants to do with his striding – he is using his head and bending his body a lot better than ever before! Yay! He is still sorting out how to use his feet though, it is like he is not sure if he wants to swim or bounce. It might be that he is not sure how to alternate leads? I think the cavalettis will help and also you can have them be a bit offset or curved as well. And the zig zag grids will help sort out the back and forth of the front feet – I can’t remember if I mentioned those or not? I scrolled up and don’t see it… let me know if you have done zig zag grids with him and we can keep helping him sort out his feet. I am convinced that the key is in body awareness away from the weaves and then it will get transferred into the weaves.
You can also play with finding the exact sweet spot on 4 poles where he can stride. You can use 2x2s for that, a little open and just play with how far open they need to be to get the striding. And once we get that on 4 poles, we can chain the 4 poles together so we get more consistent striding. If he can only sort it out on 4 poles for now, that is perfectly fine – we can do 4 poles then 10 feet then 4 poles then 10 feet and so on….Let me know what you think! I am excited to see if we can figure out the key to his feet!
TracyHi! The chair is definitely harder outside! It also tells us how much he is relying on your position and motion, so I have 2 ideas for you:
For the chair moments outside, open up the poles so it is very easy for him to go do it without you – when he gets rewarded early and often, he will be more than happy to let you sit in a chair while he weaves LOL!For when you are moving, the poles can be a harder and more closed up, but resist the temptation to help him. When he was on the closed set at the end of the video, he was weaving… but you were cuing it a lot with body motion. So in the interest of getting him as independent as possible, try not to help him go in and out – you can move alongside but let him do the weaving 🙂 If he struggles, keep the poles open as long as needed. It is hard to not help, I feel that LOL!!!! But ideally he learn to go do these without you (same as he would with a tunnel) so while he is weaving, you can be running somewhere else to get ahead of him on course.
You can totally work both elements (chair and no chair :)) and then they will come together 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Thanks for the video. I see a couple of things here that can help plan his training:
First, I think the value here has shifted to speed and extension on the line, which is great! It was what you were working on and so… here it is 🙂 So we need to balance back in a little more collection. It is normal that the value will swing back and forth til he is an adult.Second – he is not reading deceleration as a collection cue. Not anything worrisome, just an observation and something you are seeing too. I think you were making pretty clear transitions and he seemed surprised 🙂 He did better when you started without motion and close to the jump, and he also did better turning to his left than to his right.
Set up your training to have the decel be more of an antecedent to the behavior of collection: take the jump out of the picture and do this on a wing as a “rocking horse” – at about the distance you had here, wrap the first wing or cone, drive to the next wing and do a transition – then do a turn and burn exit where you have the more dramatic L-shaped line of exit like you did on the very last transition rep here. And keep moving and running til he catches up to you for the reward. The turn and burn exit and staying in motion is designed to convince him to set up his own collection and chase you out of it, with the deceleration being the cue that it is coming.
And I suggest going back to the wing because it will get the behavior a lot more quickly because the wing elicits the collection better than a jump does. And when you see him regularly adding collection before the wing on your decel – then you can add back the rest of the jump. Be sure to not be helpy but putting yourself ahead at the wing or stationary or with your hand out past the wing: we really need to teach him to do this independently of your position at the wing.And 3rd thing – he doesn’t turn his head into the turns, especially to his right. So you had asked about foundation things you might have missed: that leading with the head/head turn game is something to revisit here. As the youngsters mature, it is a good game to refresh a lot to remind them to bend into the turns, leading with the head 🙂
On the blind crosses – nice! You were earlier and stayed in motion and the turns were already tighter. Nice connection too! You can add in the tunnel and see how early you can get him to commit while you do the blind. And the speed lines at the end look great – yay! That is where the value is right now, so keep rewarding those as we keep getting tighter turns.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi –
>>.seems like I just get 2 extension strides (for me) then it’s time to decel and by the time I decel he’s committed and one stride from take off…and needs turn cue…so decel/turn cue almost need to happen same time? Tried longer space and he was faster so it was harder to show decel etc.
A couple times when I decelled he stopped and turned around before the jump too..>>Faster is good! The decel and rotation should not be at the same time, because that is when the young dogs slam on the brakes and stop in front of the jump. Feel free to post the video. The other thing you can do is help him better prepare for the turn by replacing the full jump with just the wing. Don’t worry too much about the timing of the rotation for now – the rotation is not what creates the collection, it is the deceleration. So you can work on acceleration, decel then turn and burn. Think of it as the ABCs (antecedent, behavior, consequence):
If the behavior we want is collection: the antecedent (cue) is the decel, he does a behavior and then the consequence is that he chases you through the turn and burn for the reward. That type and placement of reinforcement will encourage more collection! It is possible that you have been using too much of being right at the wing or putting your hand cue in on the other side of the wing, so he doesn’t recognize deceleration as a cue to begin to collect 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
