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Hi! He did great here on the straight poles! Almost all of the entries were really solid and he was fine with motion. He also seemed to be perfectly happy with the ball mixed in. The only hard entry was that 3 o’clock entry – that is hard for a lot of the dogs! My Elektra was really having trouble with it, so I did a clicker session right up near the straight poles, clicking for getting into the entry from that angle (and harder angles on that side) and dropping the cookie right past the entry. That really helped, so it might be something to try with him too.
Because this went so nicely, onwards to the new games! You’ll see the announcement shortly 🙂 He doesn’t need that 3 o’clock entry to be perfect to start the next steps, so you can work those and also isolate the 3 o’clock entry.
Great job!
TracyHi!
>> I have been trying to call her back to me with the treat and that works well, but you are right, she more often than not takes off without the cue. I just started using a sound to cue her.>>
>>How do you recommend I get her to wait for my cue? Make her sit/stay at every hour of clock?>>She loves to work! And that is great. If calling her back for a treat is not super high value and she might still start before the cue, you can call her back for a toy 🙂 If weaving is high value, then the reset reward can also be high value.
Plus, that helps to maintain the balance of value for obstacles and handler, so she is happy to drive to an obstacle or drive to you when cued.
I think asking for a sit between each rep might be a bit boring LOL!!!! And also, she might not want to sit, then the two of you will potentially argue about it LOL so I vote for line up cookies or toys to make it more fun to hang out with you. Then, to clarify the send cue, I do something that I call the ‘ready dance’ – I face the dog a bit, wiggle back and forth and say ready ready ready to get her to look at me… then send to the poles with the arm/leg/verbal. It is goofy but works quite nicely 🙂
>>My son was treating her in both videos but for some reason she started looking back, don’t really know what that was about. I had to encourage her to go to Alex for her treat.>>
Border Collies sometimes prefer action over food rewards, so maybe that was it? We can use toys! You’ll see me using toys with my BC/Whippet mix in some of this weeks videos. He likes food but LOVES toys 🙂
>> I placed the frisbee at the reward line, which I have done before, working by myself. It’s really a bad idea because she gets more excited about that than a treat. But she will leave it at the reward line and runs to it. But since she loves the frisbee even more than treats, she was going through many, many times without me asking to get to the frisbee. On the positive side, she’s choosing to do it! But I get it, I need to be in control.>>
>>So, recos for making her wait for my cue? No reward at all if she goes through without my asking?>I don’t think that was a bad idea at all! It was a great idea! If I am understanding it correctly… she was pretty accurate going through the weaves but was starting without you?
If so, I recommend 2 frisbees 🙂 One for the reward line, one for coming back to you. If she will tug on a frisbee, she can tug with you – then you send her through the poles to the other frizzer, then you play with the one she got – then place it again, get her to play with you, then send again. Or any combination: for one of my dogs, I do a frisbee as the reward, then cheese as the line up cookie, then the frizzer reward… he really likes that 🙂 Let me know which 2 things she likes and we can use those!
I think getting a toy involve will really help because with the cookie, she was very quick to eat the treat and then go weave LOL! Smartie!! That way the poles are all about play play play and cues, and you don’t have to withhold reward or tell her she was wrong if she starts without you.>>I haven’t done the throwing the treat into the bowl as I think she’ll look back at me. But think it’s worth a shot, if I can find a big enough bowl for my very bad aim. >>
Another foodie option is a lotus ball or treat hugger – that way your aim doesn’t need to be great and the food is more interactive.
Cracking the code of reinforcement strategy for each dog is the hardest part – but totally worth it.
>>Lastly, I think, I was doing the forward motion? I thought I was. By that I was walking down the reward line. Or do you mean adding a hand cue as motion?>>
You can add more challenge by going faster – you were moving up the line, but now see if you can job or run! I don’t think it will be a problem for her, she is very focused on the job 🙂
New games posted today! Great job on these!
TracyHi! This was super! She was fast, focused on her line, and pretty darned accurate. You had lots of angles and lots of motion and she was fine with it. I think you can probably do more sends where you are completely stationary from the 10-11-12-1-2 areas and she has to go alllll the way without you 🙂 But I think she will be fine. The MM as target seemed to help her stay straight, so you can leave it there (maybe move it back a tiny bit so she has more room on the exit).
Because this went well… onwards! The new games are posted (you have already done one of the challenges on 6 poles here, which is driving way ahead). We take significant steps forward on both the 2x2s and channels, it will be fun! Great job 🙂
TracyHi! He did really well here on the straight poles! He was looking at you a little when you were stationary, especially when you were at the 12 position – but I think that will go away as we add poles 3 and 4. Also, when you use only toy, you can still have a MM or something out there as a focal point for now so he doesn’t look back at you at all.
He did have a little trouble on the right side hard entries at the end – I agree that he might have been tired, so you can try those early in the next session.>>And I added some movement and tried to do it slow, but starting right away. That didn’t seem to be a factor in this session (except maybe in the last couple of reps), although it will be interesting to try with channels since there are more ways to “fail” there!
>>And I added some movement and tried to do it slow, but starting right away. That didn’t seem to be a factor in this session (except maybe in the last couple of reps), although it will be interesting to try with channels since there are more ways to “fail” there!>>
The movement went really well! I think he will be fine in the channels because you can click when the left shoulder gets to pole 3 and that helps keep him in (we delay the click a little later in the progression). When you send and move, you can add challenge with more of a ‘split step’ away on the line, meaning send with one leg and the other leg steps immediately down the line. You were rounding the corner with him a little, so now you can raise the stakes but splitting your step and getting outta there even sooner 🙂
>>One question I have is about how to structure the session. I tend to kind of “popcorn” around on sides and angles. But then I end the session and feel like I missed something important. Is it better to be more structured and work systematically around the clock, maybe starting at noon and working back to nine (or further) and then back to noon and around to 3 or so? Or, is it ok to be a bit more random and assume that over several sessions you’ll end up covering enough of the clock? >>
On a session with new challenges, I tend to start on my left at 9 or 10 o’clock to make it recognizable and to get the dog starting on a bend into the poles (there is more info about that on today’s games). I like it to be recognizable for youngsters to set them up for success (we can randomize it later in the training). Then, after you get things rolling, you can pick how you want to progress – step by step around the clock, or popcorn. I personally am a bit of a popcorner too – but what really matters is that we keep the rate of success high AND we make sure we show the dog ALL the things at some point. I use the field guides as trackers to make sure I am covering all the bases before moving forward to the next step. Popcorning all over keeps me pretty engaged (not sure if the dog cares LOL!)
But also, I don’t assume that I have covered all of my bases because we humans are creatures of habit – and I can guarantee that without tracking it, I would miss the 4,5,6 right side entries and not get them done til I figured out it was a big training hole. So, tracking it either right after the session or from the video will help it all get done.Onwards to the next set of games! They are posted in the Course Syllabus section.
Have fun!
TracyHi!
>. I assume you leave the kibble to dry after these lovely soaks. The MM is so picky that the kibble gets stuck sometimes. I can’t imagine what it would do with wet stuff!>>
Yes, you can totally soak it and let it dry before going into the MM (or mix in dry stinky stuff :))
She did really well with the MM here on the all the different angles. Because she is finding these so accurately, with the MM you can add in running as you send her. But also, let’s add in the squirrel because I think she needs to learn to weave when she is ultra-excited and the chuck it squirrel brings that to the table.
>>I did try using the chuck it squirrel as a tossed reward. It was pretty much a disaster. She’d go out, circle 1 pole and then start running hoping I’d throw the toy. I tried a few different things, but when she started getting fed up, I figured I didn’t want to “kill” that toy for us, so went to kibble in the MM.>>
She was all excited (yay!) but didn’t realize how to earn the toy in this context. So, two steps to adding the toy in to help her out:
first, use the MM as the reward but carry the squirrel toy with you. The toy is visible but but not in throwing position. Start nice and close and click the MM for easy entries… then throw the toy. That creates a really nice back-and-forth between the food and toys, while getting her into a higher state of arousal.If she can do that – sometimes mix in the thrown toy as the reward instead of the MM. The MM is still here to give her a focal point but she will have more experience seeing the toy as part of it, so that way she will be better at finding the poles when the toy is present.
Adding in the arousal early on should help ups ward off the “not seeing the poles” that many young dogs do early in their trial careers, when they get excited in the ring 🙂
>>what should I be focusing on? We can do the tunnel discrimination again. Anything else in particular, or is there another set of exercises coming along soon?>>
The 2nd set of games has been posted in the Course Syllabus section as of this morning (I need to double check that they are visible LOL!) We add in every 2 weeks to make sure we cover all of the bases 🙂
Let me know what you think! She is ready to move forward into the next games 🙂
Tracy
Hi! Hooray for new batteries!!!
I feel like he is doing the weaves accurately and really well, but we can increase the passion for them. I think if we can crack the code of reinforcement strategy with him, it will be clear sailing. He likes the MM but doesn’t LOVE the MM, and really only goes to it when you are moving. It was smart to bring the MM closer in this session (you can bring it in even closer!) and also smart to add your motion. I think opening up the channels a notch for now will help too so he can run run run and not have to think about anything else yet.
So – other than squirrels 🙂 – what does he LOVE? You can jazz up the food in the MM by adding in stinky stuff (my MM currently has gross stinky dried tripe mix up in it, and the kibble picks up that smell ewwwww). You can leave the MM there as a target and sometimes click it, and sometimes throw a toy (frizzer or ball or tuggie or hose, which one(s) does he love?)
The other thing you can do is let him watch Callie for a rep or two… then he does one or two – then her turn, then his turn, etc. Callie doesn’t have to weave, she can do anything exciting but watching her might out him into a higher state of arousal, which will crank up the weave excitement.
At that point, when he is cranked up for them and still accurate – it will be a very quick progression to close them up into straight poles.
Let me know what you think and we will brainstorm reinforcement strategies!
TracyGood morning!
He did a really good job with the tunnel right there! I think the tunnel was a little distracting because he was doing some other behaviors like the going around you – that little bit of distraction can stimulate the other behaviors. The slowing down was probably him thinking his way through the tunnel distraction (plus he has to collect more on straight poles, which does involving slowing down a little – so yes, you can start the next session on slightly open poles then close them up again).
Also, I think that the tunnel distraction was also part him not being sure which side of you to be on – so you can use the line up cookies to reset him. If you call him to your side and he gets a cookie at your side before the send, he is going to be very happy to come to your side and let you send him – and that way you will have the extra moment to show the clear send cue. I think he was trying to anticipate, and was perhaps thinking he needed to be on your other side to go towards the tunnel.
On this set up, you can add challenge by having him on your right side so he is entering facing the tunnel entry (and the reward target is moving to the other side of the 2 poles, at the bottom of the screen here rather than at the top of it). It places the tunnel more in view and asks him to bend into the poles rather than run straight through them to the tunnel 🙂>> Also, if Cowboy “back-weaves” away from the direction of the target should I reward that? Technically, he is entering correctly. It’s just not the direction I had indicated.>>
Yes, you can reward it, because it is correct offered behavior and your body was facing that way… but ideally, you call him back to you and give a line up cookie before he has a chance to offer the weaves going the other direction. At this stage, we want the weaves to be a ‘by permission only’ obstacle so the line up cookies will help keep the value on coming back to you to line up and then get sent.
Great job here! New stuff is posted today for you to try 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi! I bet the concert was a BLAST!!! So fun!!!
Chapter looked great here – driving right up to the end regardless of what you were doing. Yay! He was that “just right” combination of super drivey and thoughtful/focused. Perfect! Since it went so well, the only thing to change is to add a tiny bit more to, bit by bit.
And if possible, drag the teeter to a different part of the yard so he gets the experience of a “new environment” pretty regularly. It is a royal pain in the butt but so useful to drag it around 🙂
All of his games are progressing really well! I’m excited for you!!! Grrat job 🙂
TracyIt is good that you are challenging him! Also good that he came right back for more training. I’m excited about his progress!
Hi! Good news! He loves the teeter. I block the upramp with a jump wing when i don’t want a young dog to leave me for it. And I also do lots of recalls past it, to remind the dog that the teeter is a “by permission only” obstacle lol!!!
Good morning!
She is doing well here!
1&7 sessions both look good! She is recognizing the routine and really digging in to make the turn in the entry! Yay! On the first video – yes, the wings made her head explode a bit haha! But she was also vortexing: coming back but self-sending without really lining up. So, add in more line up cookies after the MM reward – it will end up being click for weaves, MM cookie, come to momma for a cookie and let the momma line you up – then send 🙂 That will give you a moment to get her going in the right direction when distractions are around. When you revisited that side in the 2nd half of the video, you had her come to you more to set her up – and it was immediately more successful because she took a moment to look at the poles and not just run to the MM or grab a wing 🙂 I am confident she will happily eat another cookie haha!!!
Motion here was no trouble, and on your right side sends where you had a ton of room: those entries were VERY independent! Love it!!!! I was going to suggest adding even more motion but I see you did that on video 2 🙂
Video 2 – it was hard to see where you were and I think on the 1st 2 reps, she had to see the motion and find the weaves. And she did, after that it was clear sailing and you were moving a good amount! Nice! She was completely focused on the reward line – perfect.
So on both of the sends at 1&7, since her angles of entry are strong and you can add motion: close up the poles to 12 and 6 for the sends and motion.
The threadle side entries are actually harder for the dogs with previous experience with weaves, because they will want to weave on a send entry and not necessarily recognize the reward line. My 2 blank slate dogs have zero trouble. My 2 year old dog who has some weave experience did the same as Lana: try to weave as if on a send and not a threadle. But, Lanna figured it out and then she had it nicely! She had to figure it out again when you switched sides, but she did. It was a good session! For now, no need to go past 3 and 9 on these threadle side entries – in games package 3, we will add a way to make it super clear for the dogs about whether we want the send entry or the threadle entry. So you can leave these alone for now in favor of focusing on getting the poles to 12 and 6.
You can totally do a bit of threadle side entry on the channels, though! That gives more of a visual clarification. Treat pole 2 of the channels as if it is at 3 or 9 (rather than the center of the channel) and that is a good clock to work around for threadle side entries there.Great job here! She is moving forward beautifully on these!!
Tracy
Hi! These went really well! A couple of overall things –
Yes, I think teaching this skill while they are still practically pre-natal is better than waiting until after an off course at a big event hahahaha! Export’s generation didn’t even see it in training, the first time he saw it was in the finals at IFCS in Italy (yes, off course to tunnel, along with all the other dogs except the Russians and one Canadian who managed to get her Border Collie to lie down so she could get up there to block the tunnel LOL!!). And in the Voodoo/Min generation, I think we showed the challenge to them but *after* the weave training was finished and also after the tunnel had a TON of value. So…. off courses. LOL!With the puppies? Let’s do it before they give a hoot about the tunnel. That is why it was actually kinda hard to get him into the tunnel here just on a verbal – but no worries, that will sort itself out when he starts running courses and the tunnels take on a natural value.
I mean, if he needs us to reward more tunnels, then we will of course. But I just don’t think we need to right now 🙂
The other thing I was excited about was how he went back and forth to the toys and food – I think there were 4 different reinforcement styles being used: ball, tug, PT, cookies from hand. And he participated in all of them when asked, no moment of obsessing on any one over the other. Yay for good dog training in place!!!!!! That balance of reinforcement is more helpful in the long run than any weave poles at the moment, so great job there!!
About the weaves – they look great! I think the tunnel distraction did set him back a little especially on that first session of the near side weaves – I saw steam exiting ears, he did it but he could not do it fast yet. That is normal for him, and it bodes well: do a session where he thinks and processes, then he “has” it and the speed increases exponentially. Yay!
On the off side video, I think the speed was already coming up! But he had more errors so maybe the processing was different there – but that is fine too, because an error here and there is important to help them learn what happens when we call them back after a miss: he did a trick for a treat (very happy making) and then got to try again and got it right (also happy making). Since the rate of success was super high, the occasional error is actually helpful (thinking ahead to if/when he misses an entry in the ring and you want him to try again, he will have experience in the joys of trying again!)Great job here – since you have covered all of the challenges on slightly open poles, the next challenge is the sending/motion on straight poles at 12 and 6. Then let him percolate on that because we build on it starting tomorrow. Yay!!!
Tracy
Awww, perfect boy, FizzLin! Yay! He is really doing a great job finding his entries. I think the toy is more fun and the PT provides a nice destination spot for the two of you 🙂 I LOVE how he was bending his body on the entry here, that bodes well for the bending needed for future sessions. Also, it was super fun to watch you train: a really great combo of precise with line up, send, reward and also quiet when he needed to think about the puzzle and super fun and happy when he got it right. Science plus art! Super fun to watch.
Since he is doing well here, and by the tunnel (training that discrimination early now rather than waiting til we start getting off courses at a big event haha!) and you have played with the channels… onwards!
These poles looked to be somewhere close to 1 and 7? You can tighten them a little more now, and also add more of your motion so he gets used to seeing you run while he is weaving. My guess is that he will get that all in one or two short sessions (and you can also add motion to the channels if you haven’t done so already).
Based on what is coming up in the next pack of games, if you can get the 2 poles straight within the next couple of sessions, you will be more than ready for the next steps (there is no rush, but also this is very doable for him based on what he is doing so far). And with the 2x2s, you might already be doing this: get the angled entries out onto grass or dirt so he can really grip as he shifts his weight to get into them, to let him sort that out at this stage (again, based on what he is already doing, it will be easy :))
Separately from the straight 2x2s, let him see some of those threadle side entries (no need to go past 3 and 9 on the clock for now) while the poles are still angled.
So to sum up – add a little more motion to to the channels and 2x2s with you moving down the line, and do some threadle side entries on 2x2s and see if you can get the poles straight or close to straight. The next step of the 2x2s that we start this week is relatively simple so there is no rush to get to it, as these steps are really good for preparing.
Let me know if that makes sense! he looks great!
Tracy
Hi! She looks great here! And one error is actually useful, because we do need to teach the dogs what happens when they miss (that is, they come back, try again, no biggie!) The good news is that you didn’t click that (like I have done on more than one occasion haha!!) and she got it right immediately afterwards. I thought for a moment that she was stress sniffing after the miss (which surprised me) but then I remembered your note about the lotus ball and then she did it after a correct rep: so she was not stressed, she was just looking for the treats that fell out LOL!!!!
The cones seems to be working well – she is looking straight down the reward line even when you move, and wrapping the cone to start is fine too haha!
Onwards! Next session can have straight poles. Wheee! Try it with the same procedures – sending from all sorts of points around the clock and then adding movement.
On these open poles, you can also take a moment to do some threadle side entries (no need to go past 3 and 9 o’clock). So maybe since the poles are easy at this stage and we can do a lot more reps – start the session with some of the threadle side entries with the slightly open poles, then go to regular sends with totally straight poles. Let me know if that makes sense, there are only 3 sips of coffee on board so I cannot be held responsible for my writing hahaha!
Have a great day!
Tracy
