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Hi Shelly and Lou, welcome!!!!
Good question about the pre-game! Having a nose touch to your hand is great 🙂 For where this game is going (next week, I promise we will use it LOL!) having some type of big obvious target in your hand will really help – a flat lid or something that is big enough to see but easy for you to hold. We need it to be salient and really pop out against the distracting stuff we are going to have it near 🙂Can’t wait to hear more about Lou!
TracyHi! Yes, it takes time to build – I have found that the less I worry about it and the more I just kinda throw things around and make toys just plaything (and not training devices) – the faster the toy drive builds LOL! Strange but true 🙂 I have 3 young dogs right now so I didn’t have time to worry much about the toy drive with 2 of them, I just used whatever they liked and added in throwing some toys around. If they didn’t like the toy? Fine, I moved to something else because I had 3 of them to train LOL! That completely took the pressure off of all of us (because we can train amazing agility dogs with food only, if they don’t like toys – there are world champions trained with food only!) and now guess what – they all like toys in training 🙂
So take your time and have fun!
TracyGood morning!
It is very cool to see green grass in late November in Minnesota!!!>> I have taken a couple of rounds of an online toy class with her and she is interesting. She has definite feelings about how things should be.
That is good, though! A dog that brings opinions to the session is a super fun dog to train! And also, paying attention to her feelings about how things should be will make your life as a trainer exponentially easier 🙂 I feel that we sometimes try to fit all the dogs into the same box in terms of how/when/where/what of the reinforcement but that can create frustration. Figuring out what she likes and building on that will help her training be easy and super fun!
Focus Forward:
Yes, better toy choice needed plus you are waiting too long to let her go – she is looking back at you on the first rep (2nd rep was better) Yo can try this toy inside a Hollee rollerYou can use the short version of this game ot build value for dead toys by dropping it right in front of her, no running, let it be dead for a few seconds while you do a bit of “ready….ready…” then let her go and when she pounces on it, you can have a big tug party
Drive to handler
The stay works really well! Good job waiting for her to swallow the darned cookie before she got the toy LOL!
Have you hand closer to your leg, right on the seam of your pantsAbout the cookie toss start – I am more interested in building value for cookies than I am about building speed with her. She has a TON of speed already so…. we can use this chase da momma game to build value for food: toss the treat, a really good one, when the other dogs are watching – then when she swallows it and looks up: chase da momma for the toy! You don’t need a second cookie when she arrives at you. If she tries to NOT eat the tossed treat, you toss t again til she eats it (no chasing if she doesn’t eat the treat. No dessert if she doesn’t eat her veggies haha)
Keep working the shaped wing wrap because the foundation ends up being wicked strong, particularly in terms of being able to commit to doing the thing even when cookies/toys/distractions are right there.
Blind cross foundation: you were good here! And she was perfect of course because you were very clear. But you don’t have to stand still, you can be walking forward if her stay is strong enough (and I am betting it is). Blinds do feel super weird when we are stationary!
The only suggestion about the toy is to have your toy arm touching your stomach as you present it – that will keep you from over rotating as you connect and reward across your body.
So add in moving. You can also add in more of her motion, by having someone hold her like a restrained recall, so you can build up to running and she can race into the blinds.Prop with food and toy:
Ah, this is fun!! Yet another reason to shape on a rando prop: build the food value up! She actually looked like she was enjoying the food LOL! Good choice of toy to pair it with, that made the whole game seem a lot more reinforcing. And a nice side effect here is that she has to unfreeze in the presence of the toy and not just wait for you to throw it – offering behavior in the face of something like that is hard but really important!
I am happy with how this is moving along because it is serving the primary purpose of giving you an easy procedure for building food love. You can do a couple more short sessions like this on the prop and on any thing you would normally shape with food. You can also add in a bit of the sending to the prop, I think she would enjoy the action! But still use the food-then-toy procedure.Nose touch to target:
OMG she was almost pushy about the food here! Did you see her bop the cookie hand? Love that! It was a ‘gimme the cookie’ moment which is exactly what we want. And you had an actual hard press to the target at about :48. SUPER!
I think the only thing to add here is picking up the toy off the ground before you presented the target – it was a little too hard to ignore the toy in favor of the target for now.I am super happy with how this is going! This is a good game to take to new places too to help transfer the food drive to new places as well.
>> In response to the food questions – she does now reliably eat her meals and does so pretty quickly. This has improved dramatically in the last 4 months.
I think she is growing up! Maturity is helpful for sure.
>>Now she eats all of her meals (she used to skip some meals or leave food). If we do a “treats with friends” type game where other dogs are outI used to train her before her breakfast and it did not really make a noticeable difference in her attitude towards cookies. Now I train her after her breakfast and she actually does better. >>
Yay for ‘treats with friends” LOL! And I agree about training after breakfast – I have seen this be helpful for ALL dogs, in terms of better engagement and better sessions. Food powers the brain, so having a breakfast is helpful! And there was just a study released about glucose and training or depletion in dogs, and basically how it is helpful when they have eaten.
>>I have been in a pattern that first we would do what I wanted to do (i.e., some obedience type training or foundations), then we would get to do what Dellin wanted to do (i.e., go outside for frisbee). The frisbees are the highest value objects (chase) and she’s quite skilled at catching them.>>
Why not start with what she wants to do? Make the act of heading into a training session the BEST THING and treat is like a sandwich: Dellin’s choice, Joan’s choice, Dellin’s choice. You’ll create a really strong positive conditioned response to beginning the training session if the favorite games/easiest games are front loaded, plus it loads the success rate way up in case the harder stuff is more challenging.
>>Question about the GOAT game. Dellin is older and basically full grown, so won’t fit on a lot of things anymore that you recommend. As a young puppy, she did lots of empowerment type games, walking on surfaces and climbing on props (at home and in her in person puppy class). She now stands on unstable surfaces (fitbones) too. What do you suggest I do with respect to this game?
You can make more of a big playing surface with multiple things pushed together – 2 or 3 fitbones, or a hodgepodge of various things for her to stand on and balance. The hodgepodge approach might even be more challenging because she will have to think about each foot/leg dealing with a different surface!
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> So, I’ll use my older dog’s “push” for backside in general. Would I use “push” “check check” for push to the back side and then wrap the wing circling to your right and “push” “dig dig” for backside with wing wrap to his left? OR – God Forbid – do I need even more words? First of all I’m seriously running out of clever/natural/easy to remember verbals. I literally have a “Ripley Glossary” in my Notion with 70 words (everything from behavior cues, to LSMs to agility verbals). >>
I totally feel this pain! But yes… I recommend 2 separate backside send verbals – the push is for the slice or any similar exit. And a separate cue for the complete circle wrap (360 degrees around the entry wing). This is especially important with the bigger dogs, because the approach to the entry wing is completely different fr a slice versus a wrap on the backside. In the happy times when we didn’t have nearly as many words, we would only use one word but my biggest dog told me clearly and unequivocally that one word and then relying on handler info or an additional verbal was late late late late late. The problem solver was adding a verbal that was for the wrap. And I wonder how many errors I could have prevented with my older dogs if I had 2 distinct cues… live and learn 🙂
>>Second of all, I seriously worry that in the moment I’ll pick the wrong one (even if I walk the course saying the words to myself, what if something changes and suddenly he’s going a different direction or something unexpected). >>
Yep, that is a concern for sure! I have found by getting these verbals going in puppy training, it becomes reflexive for us humans. I am far better with the verbals for my 3 youngsters (who all did the demos in these classes with the verbals) than I ever was with the older dogs – all of the puppy training practice has embedded it into my soggy brain LOL!!! So it turns out to be not as hard as I thought it would be, because by the time they are running courses, I have been practicing for about 18 months.
>>>So much to think about vs the good old days when we used to just run in straight lines until a tunnel turned us around for the most part.
Those were happy times. And remember when our only verbals were a few obstacle names, and how loud we called the dog’s name? LOL! Good times for sure 🙂 And I remember congratulating myself for being able to run full courses silently hahahaha oh my, how times have changed!
>>So, on this. I’ve noticed that with this toy (and it is his favorite) he can sometimes have a hard time getting a satisfying grip on it when I just let it dangle in mid air. Sometimes I’ll drop the hollee roller part down on the ground as I’m going and that makes it easier for him. Sometimes when he’s really coming in hot and I don’t want him to have to deflate on the toy grab I’ll hold it with both hands leaving a central place for him to grab and then let go of 1 end when he’s firmly on it. He likes this a lot when we’re doing stuff with more movement. I bet I could do that but keep the onside hand/arm really low, offside arm up higher but really rotated across and get a safe, clean grab without losing the connection. What do you think?>>
I think we can take a best-of-both-worlds approach. One of the things built into the games is the mechanics of reinforcement delivery, to balance the natural likes/dislikes of the pups with how we would eventually like to deliver reinforcement (having a relatively unlimited toolbox). I think you can shape the grip by having it dangle until he is opening his mouth to reach for it, then bring your other hand over to help get the strong grip, tug a bit, back to one hand, etc. So basically the will learn to come in hot for the dangled toy (which is a really useful reinforcement procedure) but also get a really strong satisfying grip on the toy for a good game of tug 🙂 It will take quick mechanics and connection to see what he is doing – but based on what I have already seen you do, this is going to be easy for you, you have great mechanics. And good connection is great for this game anyway 🙂
He looks great on his wobble board stuff! Hopefully he has tired for the zoom call LOL! We want him to be happy and confident on random moving surfaces and he is doing great with that! A couple of ideas for you to advance the game even more!
– you were moving back and forth with him and he was perfectly happy to move and wobble the boards. So now the next step is to be stationary (or fade your movement if he has trouble with you standing still) and let him offer moving the board. You can toss a treat and let him get back on it, slamming it back down, or you can hand deliver a treat on the board and see if he will over moving to the other side of it to get it to move (this will be easier on the big wobble board).
I am glad to see that you have tugging happening on the wobble board! Yay! You can get the toy even lower, elbow height for him, so he really leans back. A game I play is the “I’m gonna pull you off” game where I gently and slow increase my pull on the toy – if the dog leans back enough on the wobble board, then I will let him win the toy. If he moves forward off the board, I win the toy 🙂 It is a very gradual process so the dog wins a lot 🙂 I have video somewhere, I will see if I can find it – it is great for teeter weight shift.
And if you are not already doing this – you can add in cued position changes on the wobble board (stand to sit, stand to down, sit to stand) because they are great for balance and also a bit of turning around (not too fast though, it is too hard to balance when they spin really fast.
I also like wobble board road trips where I move it to different surfaces so there are difference noises – tile, concrete, wood, mats, etc. If the new surface is really noisy then I will put a couple of towels under the board to dampen the noise a little at first so the dog is not startled. And at home, I will put stuff under the wobble board: crinkly paper, a set of keys, crinkly empty plastic water bottle. Anything that can add a new sound is fair game.
This can all apply to the mini teeter board too, he was perfectly awesome on that too and is ready for more challenge. Yay! One note on the mini teeter, looking ahead to the future:
If you are targeting at the end with the 2o2o, I would put in a target for him to move (depending on how you trained the position initially) to so he is not locking onto your feet or the stopping of your motion. Eventually you’ll want to be able to run by the end of the contact while he stops (like a 2o2o on a teeter) so we put that concept in as soon as the dog is asked for the stop, so it is always completely independent of your position. That saves us time in the future 🙂Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyYay! We want him to feel VERY confident navigating his body on, around, over, into all sorts of different things. That will serve him well in a variety of sports and in life too!
Hi!
>>First, re: the amount of time I am tugging. He is having some major teething right now, and a couple of weeks ago kind of took a break from wanting to tug for a few days, so we concluded that it must not feel good.
Poor guy!! You don’t need to do big tugging, you can let him guide how hard he wants to grip – you can play with and near the toy, basically interacting more than tugging. That can keep the play going longer before the out without any ickyness if his mouth hurts a bit.
>>Second, re: the sit or down coupled with the out. He has really solid sits and downs as default behaviors, because I taught manding to the whole litter while they were still at the breeders, because of our Cheerio games, etc. He will do these behaviors on their respective verbal cues, but he offers them for attention all the time. I’ve been viewing it as his way of showing me that he is ready for the next rep, so to speak. So, from that perspective, I like that he offers a sit or down when he is outing his toy. I’m open to what you’ve suggested, but I need some help understanding your thought process about why we should decouple these behaviors. Does it make a difference to you to know that he offers these in lots of contexts and not just when outing the toy?>>
While I do like sits and downs offered in some scenarios, I’ve seen it cause issues when we are shaping with food or toys. If he offers it as a way to be ready for whatever is next, it is getting reinforced (installed) into the process – and he is going to have it as his most valuable behavior in too many situations, and it will get in the way of shaping new behaviors where he needs to offer movement and not a stationary behavior. He will either end up offering more of the sits and downs, and you will either have to release him (which gets more offering if stays and gets muddy) or you’ll have to wait for him to move – which is confusing as to why the sits and downs are not getting reinforcement with a toy or more help. It ends up frustrating the dogs and the offered sits and downs end up becoming a bit of learned helplessness.
So I prefer to not have them everywhere in order to set up success in shaping other behavior, particularly moving behavior.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TThanks! YouTube enjoys changing settings of older videos to force us to go in an agree to new things. I think I have them all fixed except the Matrix video, I cannot get into it 🙁
Hello and welcome! I am totally looking forward to seeing Pearl!!!
It is a long class, you’ll have plenty of time to catch up 🙂
You are welcome to post pre-game videos if you like, or if they look good then you can jump right into the games.
Have fun!
TracyHi!
>>Initially, I was going to use a separate verbal (grab it) from my food verbal (aye-aye-aye) for the moving toy, but after one rep, I realized that I needed ti stick with aye-aye-aye for me, so I did. So nonmoving food is yum-yum, nonmoving toy is bite, then moving is food or toy is aye-aye-aye and thrown food or toy is get-it.
I support that decision! You can always change it if he asks any WTF questions, but I think he will be perfectly happy with that 🙂 That is one of the procedures where the dogs are happy to NOT need a separate word (I am grateful for that LOL!)
Plus the aye-aye-aye is just so fun! I smile every time you do it LOL!
On the video:
He is still so little! And so cute! Love the scenic background 🙂This was overall a whole lot of good stuff, so I just took some notes on the little details of things you can tweak in the moment of the play sessions. I love his balance of food and toys!!!
So here are some ideas:Play tug with him for longer after he brings it after a get it and before the out, you were often very quick to take it away and do the out. Even for a cookie reward, I think the tug when he brings it back will really strengthen the get it and the retrieve and the out (you can cookie him after the out, or do a ‘bite’ for the tug again :)) Taking the toy back on the out too quickly might accidentally will reduce the retrieve or the out.
He seems to like the bite! After he puts his mouth on it (or even as he is moving towards it) you can then move the toy into normal tugging position for a hearty tug game, which will further increase the drive in for the bite. The toy does not have to stay in the bite position after he engages – eventually it will be no problem but for now, I think it is harder for him to tug in the bite position so you can get the initial interaction and then have it be more dangly for tugging.
In general – let him tug for longer before the out on all toy play procedures, let him really pull back for a while before you go to the next thing. I catch myself doing the same thing – being too quick to move on and accidentally not really playing.
You can also add in standing up before the aye aye and/or add a longer toy so he doesn’t default to offering the down all the time. I think he has value for the down and you are nice and low, which elicits it, so standing more will help generalize the procedures and we won’t accidentally build the down in LOL!
For the out – give him a little more time to process. You were really quick to say it and repeat it or take his collar or move the toy. So say out once, relax the toy and give him a moment, a solid 2 or 3 seconds (which will feel like FOREVER :)), letting him choose to move away from the toy without you moving it away or repeating the cue (then reinforce :)) I think you were maybe thinking ahead to the next thing and were moving too quickly for a baby pup (2:50 is a good example of him needing a few more seconds to process) .
Overall, you were generally rally strong about being as clean as possible with the mechanics (word then presentation). It is NOT easy with toys and treats and all those moving parts! I couldn’t see the exact mechanics on everything when you were down low, but nothing caught my eye as being “dirty” LOL!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Good list!!! Looking at which type/procedure of reinforcement to use:
>>1) Quickly moving into the 2O/2O at the end of the contacts (I primarily practice using the travel plank)
Check out the game I posted yesterday with the ‘catch’ procedure, I use it with a 2o2o on the teeter at the end
>>2) Driving through the weaves – Cowboy will typically complete them if I slow down and stay behind his shoulder but if I accelerate and run past, he will pop out.
This might work best with the placed reinforcement out ahead of slightly open as a focal point, with you adding the big distraction of your motion. Then gradually tighten the poles and also gradually fade the placed reinforcement. You can also use a catch procedure and throw the reward back to him when he finishes the poles.
>>3) Start-line / Lead-outs – His start-line is generally fine until I move half-way past the first jump. Two-jump lead-outs are still a challenge
The catch procedure is definitely good for this, and we will be adding more to the remote reinforcement work that will be useful here too (stay tuned for next week on that one :))
>>4) Visiting the judge, ring crew, leash runner, dogs (outside the ring)
Definitely remote reinforcement (go past a distraction, earn the reward) and also engagement procedures installed into some of the others (coming next week :))
>>5) Turns – Cowboy appears to be fine with front crosses but sometimes, will disconnect and want to visit whenever I do a rear cross… he is more handler focused than obstacle focused>>
Might be lack of connection on the exit of the FC? You can use the shhhhhh chase of the toy to get connection. I just put that on m list for video demos to add here!
>>6) Tugging – I have been successful with food motivated dogs but with the recent opportunities to run FEO in AKC, it would be great if I could take advantage of that option.>>
Check out the building value for toys game added yesterday. I did it with a tennis ball but you can do it with a tug toy!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree, her toy play is definitely improving! She did well here with the toy, and I love how she was offering it up to you to play with her. Does she chew softer treats? And do the softer treats interfere with toy play because they are higher value? Just curious, for planning purposes 🙂
The driving ahead here looks great! She is leaving you in the dust quite nicely LOL!
It was hard to see where you were looking so be sure you are looking at her before the release, connecting to her so you can see where she is looking (she was looking straight the whole time, good girlie!!)
Also be careful that you run straight, parallel to her path: on some of them you were accidentally cutting behind her so she was a little confused (like when she slipped past the toy at 1:01, that was the only time she didn’t quite get the toy).Great job here! Good luck with the move, keep me posted!
TracyHi!
This is also looking really good. Part of what you are seeing is understanding brewing, part of it is clear mechanics, and part of it is he is growing and getting more coordinated – learning how to train, if that makes sense 🙂Nice job getting the toy play going then staying engaged as you wen back to the shaping. Adding the cone? Easy peasy! Woohoo!!!!
I also think the toy play gives you a moment to decide what you want to do in the next part of the session 🙂
At the end, he was going back and forth really nicely and you had your stealthy cookie hand getting the reward to the bowl while he was eating the other one. So – for the next session, start exactly like this and then when he gets into the rhythm: delay the cookie drops til after he has made the decision to go back around the cone.
And if that goes well? (And I am sure it will!) You can start to inch the cone a little further away, every couple of reps.
And keep going with the dance break toy parties! Looking great!!
Lovely work on all of these!
TracyWheee you really had to run here!!! Nice! I agree, he seems to really understand it now! It cracked me up that on the 2nd rep, the toy split in 2 and he went to the further one LOL! But, he is focusing directly ahead, totally straight and super fast. NICE! We build on this even more in today in new games and in coming weeks.
Yes – take it outside, into the hallway, etc – all sorts of different places! If distractions are high in new locations, use super high value toys and short distances, kind of starting over (not adding much of your motion). If he seems perfectly fine with it, you can immediately ramp it up to what you were doing here 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
