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Hi!
>> am I actually supposed to be staying more upright until the exact moment that the moves in for the turn and that’s when I put my hand down?Yes, you will want to be upright as if you are running an agility course and then bend in with your hand when he is maybe a foot away from you. Or, since he is little, you can use a long wooden spoon with a little dab of cream cheese on the end to replace your low hand to deliver the reward.
You were indeed bending over a little too soon here – you can wait a little longer and then pivot when he is just arriving at you hand – if you wait to pivot til he is just about at the hand, he will be decelerating to turn which is good! If you turn too soon, he won’t collect as well so he will be a little wider.
And also being later on the hand dropping in an pivoting when he is just about ariving at your hand will keep you better connected – you turned too soon at 210 which caused a disconneciton, so he didn’t know which side of you to be on. But compare it to the last rep – I really liked your connection and pivot timing there and he was super tight! NICE!!
You can also play this with tug toys – the hand he drives to is empty and then he gets a tug toy after you pivot.
Only one other suggestion:
When using a stay to start this, release him with his release word like you will do from a start line rahter than his name, You can use his name if you are starting with a cookie toss, you don’t need the release word there because he is not in a stay,Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Cookie catch game went perfectly. Starting to work on wing wraps which he is pretty good at too. Although I think you should have a disclaimer for your courses that if you have three dogs all three will insist on playing!>>
Ha! Yes, the games are fun so I only have one dog in the room at a time 🙂
>> He also does great entering the ring on the leash and sitting with the leash on. Once I try to take the leash off he immediately stands up.
So I was wondering should I continue for a while to just enter the ring on the leash have him sit and reward this behavior for a while and then try to add the off leash piece? I also wondered if I should try moving the jump further away and see if he will sit? Should I try the whole sequence in a less exciting place?>>
So if I am understanding things correctly – he is perfect with every step of the process and goes into his sit. Then the leash comes off, and he stands.
That is not uncommon – taking the leash off might produce a conditioned response (moving, which is often what happens when the leash comes off) and also a reflexive response – opposition reflex might cause him to move. So an easy tweak: do the process exactly as you are, except take the leash off *then* ask for a sit or stay position. This is how most of my dogs enter the ring (leash off before the stay). Of course, work that at home first so it is familiar to him and also make sure he gets rewarded for not leaving when the leash comes off. Let me know what you think!
>>P.S. Bisbee was champ at catch game. She laid down in front of the jump like the Sphinx and capably caught cheese!
She probably is wondering why we have not played this game earlier in her career LOL!
Have a great Thanksgiving!!!
TracyHi!
This went really well!
When he brings the toy, you can tug then give a cookie lime you did just to maintain the strengthen of the bringing and letting go – that was a really nice process!Double gold star for Merlin on that 2nd rep where he *almost* cut in front of you to the toy but then processed the cue and decided to do the behavior of wrapping instead of toy grabbing. YAY!!!! You gave him a good tug then a get it then cookie, all good.
>> the one rep is my error he clearly didn’t understand back from where I was>>
yes, I think your transition into the release was actually too quick. I know I bug everyone about quick transitions but he needed a moment of connection to assess the new side before you gave the back cue (the distraction of the placed reinforcement requires a little more processing time at this early stage). It was good to reward him any way.
You were clearer on the next rep but never said his get it cue so he went around but did not get it – then at 2:32, you said get it… so he did. Little guy is developing some self-control! He might have been mentally tired for the out after that (self-control is very depleting) so the out was slower, but no worries – then he needed a chew moment. This is all interesting insight into how mentally hard self-control on the toy is! But, he is doing really well!!! I am excited by his progress!!!So a big thing to remember here is to limit the # of reps that require self-control. The getting on the couch and chewing might be the sign of the brain getting a little tired 🙂 So you can do one or two reps of the placed toy or remote reinforcement (both of which require a LOT of self-control) and then go do something really easy, like get its on cookies LOL!
Great job here! And have a fabulous Thanksgiving!!
TracyHi!
>For the longer catch toy do I let go of the end or ?
Only if you think he will bring it back LOL! And if you think he won’t bring it back, combine the catch with the magic egg&pumpkin remote reinforcement plate! You are basically creating a bit of a loop:
stay – catch – bring it – egg&pumpkin – stay and so on.T
>>I didn’t let him have it until after he brought me the thing and gave the toy back. Is showing the reward to be earned something I need to phase out?>>
It depends on where the behavior will be used. In this case, I think the the egg/pumpkin plate was a remote reinforcement: go do the thing and afterwards, we go get the reinforcement. I think it can work really well!!
T
Hi! This went really well!!!
Good job getting a really high success rate but also having good challenges in there.
Some little suggestions:
stay on the flat – if you are working towards an agility stay, you don’t need to face him (unless you are specifically assuming the obedience stay position) – and you can toss the toy back after the catch cue while you stay in motion (I recommend this staying in motion for all behaviors with the catch procedure so he doesn’t pair you stopping/looking at him with the release)
You can sometimes stop your motion – and when you do that, insert some praise between your stop and whatever happens next (the catch then toss, or the release forward) – on the last stay rep he wanted to move as you stopped so we don’t want him to anticipate the release when you stop or look at him.Stay in front of jump – also super! Your position was better here in terms of facing forward more.
He doesn’t quite have the whole “stay there it is coming to you” thing down pat yet (he was moving forward when you said catch but I think that was lack of experience with this scenario. More importantly, he had a good time, high success rate, and it will get better with the ‘don’t release forward’ – maybe throw the toy behind him to help him want to not move forward as much. And as with the stay on the flat – you can be moving while you say catch then toss on some of the reps, you don’t have to stop all the time.The 2o2o on the plank also looked good! You will want to add in staying in motion on this one too (I am pretty sure the demo video shows staying in motion on the teeter 2o2o and doing the catch/toss back while I continued to move forward). You can also ramp up your speed – you ha a fast walk going here, so you can ramp it up to a jog then a run!
>> However, towards the end, Cowboy wasn’t as wowed by the Lotus Ball. With a tennis ball, he will continue to engage with it but with the Lotus Ball, he lost interest once he removed the food (dead toy syndrome, I guess).>>
I think that is fine – the function of the Lotus Ball is to be a food delivery mechanism, so it makes sense that he was not as interested in it when there was no food involved. I can relate – the Fritos bag is boring after I have eaten all the Fritos LOL!!! So you can totally keep doing this with a ball (the arousal from the ball will add challenge for sure!) and also the lotus ball can have food in it.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Getting the ball back is going to be successful and fairly easy I think. We’re already making some small progress on this just by me giving the ball back to Annie.
Perfect!
>>>Staying in the weaves without hand watching is going to be hard because Annie really doesn’t have “remote” skills, but I feel like I know where to begin with this. The toy on a stool seems like an easy way to start. Also, I might be able to build a little value for the manners minder by sending Annie to it and then giving her the ball, kind of like what Contraband did on the demo video with getting the ball first, then the toy.>>
Thinking back to my Rat Terrier, Rebound, who thought that my touching the pocket was a click – I also did something to help break that habit by asking him to do a relatively easy thing (NOT weaves LOL!) and I repeatedly touched my pocket in the “I am pulling out a cookie” motion – when he did the thing and stopped obsessing on the pocket, I gave him a reward from the table behind him or from my other hand. I think I did this with 2o2o targeting, but it can really be anything. Alas, this was 100 years ago so there is no video (2004 maybe?) but I remember he had to learn to take his eyes off the hand moving to the pocket. You can do this maybe with a hand touch? What other simple things does she know? Then we can work it up to the weaves.
>>However with the speed goal at lessons, I’m having trouble figuring out where to begin. Over the summer I worked shorter sequences at lessons, breaking each course into about 3 sections, but it didn’t really translate to an increase in overall speed.
Shorter sequences don’t necessarily translate to more speed. You might need to do shorter sequences, but type and placement of reinforcement will make a big difference. For now, start with getting her to do some tricks with you (not agility, just some trick) with the big reinforcement on a table behind her somewhere. Next week we will build on it and add more speed-specific procedures.
>>I wonder if I should break my goal down into something more specific, like driving fast to the end of the contacts. Annie can probably take a full second off her dogwalk and A-frame just by running down the ramps instead of creeping down them. I can get a fast dw at home after a few reps of throwing the ball once she gets to the end. It’s definitely a habit to be slow on the way down though, especially at lessons.>>
>>>>What do you think about this idea of focusing on contacts? Is this a good first step toward increasing motivation and speed? If so, is there a specific game that would help me get started? >>Well, taking a full second off will definitely help! The get it procedure (throwing it forward as soon as she hits position) can help provided that you do not lose control over the behavior because she anticipates and self-releases. I use the catch for that, throwing the reward back the instant the dog hits the position (it is in this week’s demo video).
I don’t think speedier contacts will also increase speed through jumps and tunnels – it won’t hurt, but probably won’t make them faster.
>> Also, would you get the down ramp speed going great consistently at home before working on it at lessons?
Yes, and also work only the down ramp speed at lessons rather than doing the whole obstacle.
>> Lastly, I know I would reward the great reps, but what about the mediocre reps? Do those get rewarded too?>>
I do! I reward anything that is correct because marking speed is nearly impossible. And I mark it fast with a high value reinforcement, and the placement of the reward is what helps produce the speed. Tell the dog “that was not fast enough” never produces speed and accuracy – in fact, they either slow down to be correct, or they get frustrated and check out. So I reward it. I *might* save the best rewards for super fast & accurate behavior, depending on the dog, but also I wind the dog up before each rep so they are ready to go fast 🙂
Tracy
An old sock: Perfect! And inexpensive LOL!!! You can use a really long old sock and let him tug on it (I have filled old socks with food in the pas to get tugging, not sure if he needs this). Does he also like to tug on old slippers? You can also try tugging on bully sticks or any chew bones – anything can be a tug toy 🙂
T
Hi!
>>then running to the van with them, saying “cookies in the car” over and over until we get them. Of course, that phrase might seem strange in our backyard or indoors at home…..
What if you said something like “car cookies!” so car became the salient word and paired it with cookies? And also, you can use your van in some home training to teach her that running back to the van means cookies and not a trip to the vet LOL!
>> I don’t anticipate being able to use discs as a reward at trials. So I guess I need to decide if a disc retrieve is what I want/need. At least the way it is now I get some exercise, too, picking up the discs she drops in my vicinity. ;). I think I’m more interested in working on a tug. That’s something I could use at classes and trials. I’ve just never had a tugger, but I think Keiko might cooperate…..>>
Yes, you can totally work on tugging! How is she at home with tugging? Amd the other thing you can do is work on transferring tugging to the frisbee: for my Hot Sauce, as she was beginning her agility trial and flyball tournament careers, I used the frisbee as a tug toy and also attached it to a longer toy and was able to do short tosses and tugging on it. I am sure I have video of that somewhere. When she got really confident in those environments, I transitioned her to a normal tug toy and now she is a normal tugger and not a frisbee chaser LOL! But I still use double tennis balls for UKI NFC trials, that is her absolute favorite!
Tracy
Hi!
>>This is a great example of me having a plan but focusing on mechanics took a lot of mental energy for me. I’m sluggish and thinking too much. Flashbacks to your previous course where I should have rehearsed first.>>
I htink it is actually a great example of you being too hard on yourself 🙂 This went well! And yes, mechanics are mentally draining for human and dog – and when yo uare being precise with mechanics, things will slow down and that is a good good very good thing 🙂
Remote reinforcement – I agree that he didn’t know wha this was about at the beginning, possibly because you moved away really fast and possibly because there was a frsibee out ahead (be sure to ‘clean’ the environment so he doesn’t get confused). To make this clear right fromt the start, you can make it look more like what the trial ring entry would look like: use a chair or something to leave the toy on make it more of an obvious: “we leave this here”. Then walk away with him (try not to let him put himself into a sit) and encourage him to come with you if he puts himself in a sit stay. And then you pick it up and give it to him off the chair when you go back to it, which will also closely mirror a trial ring exit. He is picking this up really nicely!
Placed reinforcement – In the early part of this session, you can totally keep moving so you and the reinforcement are not near each other and also so there is not a sudden eplxosion of motion when you add motion (that was part of the reason he went through the wing). Your mechanics at 2:10 were great and he did super well going past the toy, to get the toy 🙂 Yay!
And I did feel overall that he was engaged with the toys and tugging, so yes, he probably just needed a poop break at the end LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I do love mountains and Nuptse sounded familiar, so Itook to google to research a bit about Nuptse and Changste 🙂Glad you liked the zoom chat, it was really fun! We have another zoom chat this Saturday, at noon, I think! I will post the link today.
Yes – we need to get a little more separation between the mark and the hand movement of the get it but it will work out fine. He was a little surprised when you switched to the toy at first but then he figured it out.
Yes, the out’give part probably needs more reinfrocement for him to be able to give it back more readily, but to be honest – I love that he loves this toy so I don’t mind giving him an extra moment or two to shake it around and then a litle while longer to out it 🙂 You can reward the give with a cookie too, that speeds things up a lot.>> when there is such a short time between the release and the get it, perhaps, I should use shshshsh instead of get it!
The marker you use will depend on the location of the toy – if he moves away from you to get it and it is not really moving much and he can grab it right away… it is a get it. If you will be swooshing it around and moving, and you want him to chase it and not just grab it – then it is a shhhhh. Based on what you did here, I think get it was the correct marker. To get more time between the give and the get it, insert a little cookie reinforcement and a little praise 🙂
Great job here! Have a fabulous Thanksgiving!
TracyHi!
The oopsie was hilarious, he was both proud of himself and then stressed himself out about it lol!!
The procedure overall looks good! We are going to add things to it like leash on/off, putting it in front of obstacles, extending the number 9f obstacles, etc. But I do agree that it conflicts with the other use for cookies. Now, dogs are brilliant and I am sure he will figure it out based on context and the bowl, but you can also maybe add a different word before cookies to clarify even more.
Also, you can use his relax/tug mat too!!! The mat can be his exit reward.
Let me know what you think! Great job here 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Great job here! The placement and timing of the reinforcement looked great and so she immediately picked up the behavior. Yay!
Remember to stay closer to the start wing – don’t get too far ahead or you will end up having to stand still, which could pull her off the backside (like at :14, you had to decelerate a little. You kept moving really well on a lot of them and got to the takeoff side on a lot too! She looked at you like you were a little nuts there so you can throw sooner – that is a skill she will see on German turns, for example, so it is good to show her what it looks like.She did have little questions when you were lateral, slowing down a bit – I think mainly you can start the backside cue sooner, before she really finishes the wing wrap – the question might have been waiting for info.
And, to be sure she is really processing the cues: Balance with some fronts now too! As she finishes the wrap, you can call her and then use a front cue, or you can start the backside cue.
Sorry to hear about your knee!!! Hopefully it heals up soon so you can get back to running 🙂
Great job here!!
TracyGood morning! Really nice session here, this will be a useful skill when she is at trials! And it will help build confidence too 🙂
She definitely likes the food bag! I snorted out loud at :38 when she looked back at the bag as if you were crazy to leave it there. The look on her face was priceless LOL!!!A question about the specific marker that indicates that the food or toy is now available: I think for the food it was cookies, but it was harder to tell with the toy. Ideally, you have one marker for both, meaning “now we proceed to the reward I left outside the ring’. You are totally welcome to have separate markers for type of reward but it is one less verbal to remember if you only use one marker for this specific placement 🙂 And that will also help keep it distinct from any other cookie or toy markers – basically, it means “we are now going to the magical reward table” LOL so she knows where to look and how to earn the reinforcement when there is nothing in your hand or pockets : )
For disc retrieves, I have found that having 2 discs is helpful: if the dog brings the first one back, I throw the second one. That has allowed me to get a good retrieve and now I don’t need the 2 discs anymore 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
