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Hi Tracy
I will try those suggestions. Yas, being a bit careless with the tugging.
Tonight I tried the Strike a Pose with the toy on the ground.
Started off quite well but she definitely got a bit too interested in the toy on the ground as we worked on the one side so I decided to end the session without trying the other direction.
I am thinking next time I might have the toy hanging from my hand instead of on the ground.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
Will try to make the adjustments that you suggested.
today we did a bit of work on on the threadle wrap foundation and perch work.
the videos are actually from our second sessions as we tried them for the first time yesterday.
Perch Work:
First session I tried both tossing the treat back, that wasn’t getting any pivoting so tried pivoting with her and then tried the treat tossing again and got a bit of a pivot.
today I started the same way with tossing the treat and stayed that way for the session, got a few steps here and there but think I will do the pivoting with her again next session.
Threadle Wrap Foundation:
First session we did she definitely had issues with turning to the left. This session was a lot better on that side but still a bit more difficult as compared to the right turns. Overall I thought it went pretty well though. We tried the option with me moving, not positive I was doing it as intended.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
<Try a whole session rewarding only from the left (I know, you are probably twitching over that suggestion LOL!)>
Not quite twitching – LOL! I’m just really not good at all with my left hand but I will try that. So we aren’t really looking for distance on the backing up like we used to it seems?
I will try the other suggestions too.
With the plank doing it was more a spur of the moment thing as I wanted to see how she did turning on it versus the much narrower one in the basement. I probably should have said strength with regards to the turning on the narrower plank given it is so much narrower than a proper dw/teeter plank is and turning on it is a lot harder than on the wider plank.
Will try to do what I can outside that doesn’t require pulling much out of the house as it’s all in the basement.
However, I did pull the barrels out to try rocking horse outside. She had to deal with what turned out to be a young buck in the bushes about 100′ away (she heard something before we started and barked at the fence and then we saw it after doing the work).
It went pretty well, I really wasn’t sure how much she would stay with me doing it as we haven’t ‘worked’ a lot outside, restrains and recalls mostly. I did lose her once, she did head right over to where she had peed before we started. I messed up a couple of the sends.
I was watching the remote reinforcement video and have a question. I am not sure why the extra/new verbal cue for getting the remote reinforcer?
I do, of course, use remote reinforcement at times when training, etc but I am usually using a toy that is on the ground and tell them to ‘get it’ when they can go get the reward or if using a bowl just tell them bowl. Essentially like I would do normally if I was tossing a toy for them or putting a treat in a bowl after having the reinforcment on me.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
<Thanks for watching thousands of hours of video during covid LOL>
That goes back a lot farther back, to when Ziva was learning her backing up with SG.
Did a few things today.
Strike a Pose with a sit:
Redid this and did both sides this time with a food bowl on the floor but I didn’t do all the positions as didn’t want to push the sits too much. I also wanted to do reward sit, release, reward sit for the each side so that would be a number of reps if I did all three positions. Went really well!
Do you think we should we try the threadle version? And if so, should I use the words I plan on using for the directionless verbals?
Backing Up:
Retried this doing some tosses with my left hand, not the greatest with that hand as I am VERY right-handed. Used the tug more as a reward but after tossing the treat for her first. I also switched to my rocker board as it’s bigger.
I do think this went better as we got into it. At the end I did a treat toss so she could decompress a bit. I need to think of a word/phrase for that. I used snuff(le) here but I also use ‘snack’ to tell them I will give them a treat from the ground using my hand so it’s too close. I do sometimes use ‘all done’ to indicate when we are done, ususally giving them the toy we were using, so maybe that would work better.
Later in the afternoon when it warmed up (it got to 15C/59F – normal is 1C/34F) did a couple of little things outside.
Retrieve:
Haven’t really done this outside since the first video. I used a different toy, one that she has been really willing to hand to me (like putting her feet on the couch and trying to give it to me even when I hadn’t asked for it) to see if that would make it a bit easier with the distractions of being outside. I did use a harness and line on her as a line wouldn’t have worked on the toy. Only a few reps and quite short. She did really well.
Plankrobatics:
So we are putting equipment away and the teeter got taken apart. I kept the plank out and have had her turning on it but decided to video today. It’s a proper 12in wide vs the basement one that is maybe 9.5in and she can’t consistently turn on. Maybe as we do more procioception things and also build some strength she’ll get there on the narrow plank but right now she can’t.
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
<If you alternate hands and reward from the left hand a lot, she will back up straight because she won’t lock onto any single hand.>
hmm, interesting thought. I’ve always only done with my right hand (I am extremely right handed) and I seem to recall from years ago it was more as they get it and rewarding by tossing in the straight line that they will straighten out as they figure out were the treat will be?
I will give it a try and see if I can even do it with my left hand – LOL!
<Then hold the toy still… when she backs up onto the board, mark with her coming in to tug more.>
You don’t think that this would likely lead to less distance backing up since the reward is coming close to me rather then out where she is? That is what I would sort of expect to happen.
<You can of course throw the toy like you are throwing the cookie, but that assumes she will bring it back so you don’t have to keep getting up to get it >
I think I won’t go there until the retrieve is quite a bit stronger since backing up requires a fair bit of thought on her part and so does retrieving.
Tonight we did a couple of things but I only videoed one.
We did some more stays doing strike a pose (with food) away from the jump again and it was perfect. So will try using the toy next and then try it with the jump again. This I didn’t video.
Tried the Rocking Horse with the barrels wider and the toy as reward instead of food. I am definitely not as good sending to the barrel with my left hand after doing the other barrel, need to work on that.
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
<Smart! How did she do? That is definitely good to help build the love for start line stays.>
She did pretty well! It wasn’t our first session trying to just do sit work in the basement. The first one was a pretty big fail. I hadn’t asked for sits there (have in a bunch of other locations around and away from the house). But after that session she was much better the next time with nothing else set up before we did it with the barrels.
<Try not to deliver a food reward for the sit after the lineup – it looks like you did at :47>
Yeah, I realized that as I did it – DOH!
<You can add in getting into the strike a pose position, hand in position, then throwing the reward back for the stay.>
After you said that I realized I likely would need to break that down even more for her and do sits for strike a pose away from the jump since I’ve always tossed the treat to start that. Have done one session that way but no video and she did have some struggles staying in place as I put my hand into place so I will work it more before I add the jump into the picture.
Backing Up:
I redid the backing up last night using your suggestions. Some improvement but still checking out to look for stuff on the floor. This is using roast beef and was the only thing we did last night. It really seems like this is a bit boring to her. I played tug a few times during the session.
Thanks
Lori
HI
<Is she struggling with the stay on the flat? Boards can help but they can also be very hard to fade out.>
Not really (at least so far) but I was thinking of it for harder situations like longer lead outs to help her understand to stay still with something that is ‘different’ than just sitting on the ground/floor.
Kyrie was actually climbing onto the shpile as I was building it – LOL!
I have asked for a few different toys, starting with similar ones and I am going to work up to what I think will be tougher toys.
We did a couple of things over yesterday and today.
Rocking Horse with toy:
tried it with the toy, I messed up one of them. I also think because of trying to use my hand to get her into position to start and how close the barrels were she thought I was doing weird rotated sends a couple of times, so I need to adjust there a bit.
I didn’t video but we did a bit of work with sits near the barrels too as practise.
Retrieve in the Basement:
First time really trying retrieve with a toy to my hand in the basement. Wasn’t surprised she wanted to play with the toy at first, got a nice one on the last rep so I quit.
Tonight we did a couple of things.
Strike a Pose with Sits:
This went pretty well overall I thought. I opted not to use the toy or the food bowl for the serp since I was adding in the sit to limit the changes in one session. Tried to reward the sit and then do a release. I set her up too far a couple of times. I stopped after doing the one side as I thought asking form more sits would likely be too much for one session. I’ll do the other side next session then try adding the bowl in.
Get out with prop:
Well, apparently I cann’t walk in a straight line all the time – didn’t even realize it when I was doing it.
When I double checked the desscription for this one I realized I hadn’t asked Kyrie to come straight to me rather then do the out at all last time. So I did a bit of that to start with no/little movement.
DOR is definitely harder for both of us – LOL!
I feel like at times she is watching my off arm looking for the treat to be thrown from it.
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
<How is her stay going? It will make it easier to add the threadle versus serp if she will hold a stay and can look at the cue before the release. If she is moving fast after a cookie toss, she might not have time to process the cue before heading towards the jump.>
We are working on the stay, it is getting better but I am not sure it will tolerate me getting into position near a jump yet. I am thinking that I should probably work asking for the stay around a the serp setup and reward that some before doing the actual serp work.
I have been thinking about teaching her a sit on a board so she has a clearer idea of staying in place.
Tonight I tried the Shpile upstairs as I had a number of things I could use for it but I will move downstairs to get more room to do the recall part better. But think it went pretty well overall.
I also did a quick video of where Kyrie is giving me a toy to my hand. I did change to a differnt toy, I have tugged a bit with her on this one (there are very few toys we haven’t used to play tug), but being the shape of a stick it seems she handles it better.
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
I will try to make those adjustments when I come back to these games in a day or so.
<And you can add the verbal you want to use – you had asked recently if it was an absolute or relative cue. It is actually an absolute cue with a small relative element before it: because she changes her lead to the one she was NOT on before the cue, it is absolute in that she needs to change leads which overrides your handler position and motion. And the small relative element is that the lead she was on was dictated by the previous line you had set on the course, usually from your position. There are relative element of agility in just about everything, so this is a cue that can fit both molds>
Ok, I think I can see that. I do tend to be more ‘strict’ in thinking about it, probably because I tend to call it direction-based handling (first term I heard) where direction is the dog’s direction.
I do have a follow-up q re the physical cue for ‘out’ being the opposite arm pushing in to the dog. I am behind a LOT and while I don’t use ‘out’ that frequently I always wonder if they see the physical cue when I am as far behind as I usually am.
My other thought on using it is that I do use my off side arm straight out (but not moving towards the dog) for my threadle wraps. When I have tried the dog side arm low that I often see being used I find it doesn’t work well for me, not sure why, but the opposite arm straight ahead and not moving seems to work well.
So wondering about your thoughts/suggestions on that? including any thoughts you might have relating to the threadle wrap physical cue.
Tonight we only worked the Concept Transfer for Strike a Pose for the Serpentine.
I thought I had picked a treat that when tossed would land and stay realively close to where it landed, it was a total fail. the great mats are pretty bouncy. Even allowing for that it went pretty well. Did with a treat reward first and then the tug toy reward. I might try pieces of cheese next time for the tossing.
I did end up having to tell her to tug on the toy as the first one she didn’t tug. We are still working on her not grabbing whatever tug toy I happen to be carrying with me (she is a determined girl at times – LOL!) so I am totally ok with using the word tug so as to not have any confusion between when she can tug versus times I am just carrying the tug and she shouldn’t grab it.
Serp Strike a Pose with Treat:
Serp Strike a Pose with Tug toy:
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
<You can teach the cleaner give with a non-toy object (something with no tug history).>
hmm, that is a challenge, I play tug with her with practically everything just so that she is willing to tug on anything if I ask for it – LOL! I’ll wait it out.
Well, that is annoying, I refreshed and resigned in any number of times since the start of classes and the class schedule just said it was coming soon (I believe) but it’s there now. Thanks!
Today we played a bit of backing up, rocking horse and the get out with the prop.
Backing Up to a target:
This was our second time doing it in the basement, in the same spot. She did the same things the first time with looking for the toy, checking out the floor, the wobble board, etc. I thought it was just likely a case of doing it in a ‘new’ place with a new target. I am wondering if I should move the wobble board to another location and try again?
However the backing up itself went pretty well I thought.
Rocking Horse:
We did best on rewarding after each barrel. I think she was looking for the treat from the hand some after that. I felt a bit disconnected on a couple of the ones she didn’t go around the barrel with the right turn. I also went one barrel too far at the end when I tried for doing two loops.
I didn’t use verbals (forgot you mentioned to add them in) but I do have a question there – I assume I should treat her going around the barrel as taking the front of a jump and use those verbals for the tight turn on a jump?
Get Out with Prop:
Out to the left went pretty well (especially since I was using the wrong treat word the first bit – DOH!). To the right she seemed more focused on where the treat was coming from.
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
Redid the Rotated Sends and the Parallel Path.
Rotated Send:
This went really well I thought. I am farther away from the barrel then I have been in the past and she had no issues going around in either direction. I made sure to step towards the barrel this time and that helped a lot.
Parallel Path:
I was able to get a good distance laterally for being in the basement. She is looking at me a fair bit on the turning around to the next rep – a couple of the times I was out of view on the video when it was close to the camera. Suggestions on dealing with that?
I have a retieve question but no video.
Have been working on getting Kyrie to hand me the toy she has. She is starting to do it but a lot of it is just done when when is out playing and I am finding she is doing a lot of mouthing of the toy and such because she is playing. Not sure how to get that to fade out and get a cleaner give to hand? Or not even worry about that for now?
One other thing – I was looking for a class calendar and found the spot for it in the course but there is nothing there.
It would be really helpful for me if I knew when the remaning break week(s) were and how many actual game packages there are going to be. I feel like not knowing that has me concerned I am way behind since package 7 is coming out today and I am just starting on package 5.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
<Do I remember correctly that she already does the rotated sends to the barrel really well?>
No, we haven’t done that one at all yet. So we tried it tonight.
Had a little trouble getting things going, thought it might be the toy as a distraction in the other hand but a couple when I hid it she still had trouble going around.
Rotated Sends: https://youtu.be/HkN4UlZJgHY
Also tried the Concept Trasfer for the Parallel Path with the jump. Had one rep where I inadvertantly got a bit too far away and she came in, but the others were ok. In the video for this you were using a clicker, I haven’t used one in training her to date (haven’t even done the pairing to one). Should I use one do you think?
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
today we redid the handling combo and the lap and tandem turns with the prop. Went MUCH better. I was still a bit fast here and there on the lap and tandem turns (and sorry I put the prop in a bad spot on the left tandem turn)
Handling Combos with decel and pivot:
So should I start adding distance from the barrel so I can try the blind cross and other things or move on to the rotated sends in prep to do rocking horse?
Lap turn:
Tandem Turn:
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
thanks, will take a look at those games to start doing. Still feeling like I am getting so far behind on the weeks that I haven’t even looked what the shpile game is.
<I am not sure she is using the mat as a destination – it might be incidental.>
Likely true right now. I will do without it to see but she does know it is there and now that she is starting to back up a few steps I am hoping to be able to start rewarding only when she touches it and then use is as the target for backing up farther. It worked that way for Beka so hoping it does for Kyrie.
<To get that, you can use a taller mat for her to step back up onto – something only as tall as maybe half the length of your thumb>
hmm, will have to think of something for that. I don’t know that we have anything other than plywood that is about that thick and big enough to get her on it completely. would it make any sense at all to try the wobble board upside down??
Tonight we worked Strike a Pose with both food (added in the bowl) and toy (showed it more). I did do a quick review of the baby step version first as a reminder.
Food: https://youtu.be/DLgTtKcMQ3s
Toy: https://youtu.be/44uvYeCYEUI
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
<Yes, getting retrieving will help and also don’t keep sending her to it if she doesn’t bring it all the way.>
That is why I was using the treat and train, she doesn’t have a retrieve yet. So how do I play with the tunnels in that case?
<But also it doesn’t have to be a loop: you can throw the reward, then play tug… then throw a start cookie for the next rep.>
will try that next time we do this for both games. I also totally forgot to use an empty hand and have it extended all the way forward on the lap turns.
<If you choose to work a game that has an impulse control element (like the engagement outdoors at the tunnel, which also has retrieving, or going past the prop rather than to it on the lap/tandem turns) – make that the only impulse control game of the day. And if you do another session of training, work on something that does not ask impulse control questions – make it something fast & fun. >
That does make sense but virtually all games have an impulse control component in them so not sure what game(s) I could play that don’t and are still fast and fun?
today we did a bit of retrieve work outside with two toys, one on a line in case, went pretty well but video not so much.
Tonight we just did a backing up session. Have only done maybe 3 sessions since I posted the first one but she has started doing a bit of offering steps back when I hold my hand in the ‘treat toss’ set up position. Next time I’ll likely move the mats a bit farther back.
Thanks
Lori
