[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Yes! What you posted is exactly what I am leaning towards doing on the backside wraps. The source that got me thinking about it calls it direction-based handling (dogs direction) and what we typically do as handler-based (based on our positioning). So dog doesn’t have to think about where we ae to know what to do! I really like the idea!

you mentioned this:

<This will be basically “go to the left wing and slice” or “go to the right wing and wrap” There are still 4 backside verbals in each style of training, but the difference is that one set (relative) has handler position input and the other set (absolute) is about the dog’s direction only.>

I was debating doing direction-based/absolute verbals with the backside slices. Sounds like you are doing that?

One other thought was how far to push it since it is entirely based on the dogs position relative to the jump they are heading towards.

For example, the backside slice around the right wing of a jump is the exact same thing from the dog’s perspective as a threadle slice is for that same wing of the jump. What is different is our postion relative to the jump. On the backside slice we are on the landing side of the jump and on the threadle slice we are on the takeoff side of the jump.

Are you looking at using the same command for both of those situations also since the dog is doing the same thing on both of them????

I feel like the direction-based could be so much easier on the dog overall. harder for us to switch over to though (sometimes I still mess up left and right in the moment even when I’ve rehearsed them on every walk through of the course – DOH!)

I assume you are changing verbals during the switchover? or are you reusing some?

Lori

• This reply was modified 14 hours ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Did turn and Burn again today.

On the DOL video it’s shorter because I started doing it then checked the phone and sigh, no video, so I did just a bit from where it was.

DOL: https://youtu.be/pLYTBsGsnXo

DOR: https://youtu.be/yEWcQSWad-c

DOR is her harder turn being it is the left turn.

Teaching Collection Pt2

I was late on the blind a few times as I was trying to make sure she had the treat.

I was reading the verbals lesson from Pkg 4 and wanted to ask a question about something I am considering.

I am switching my wrap verbals (dig/check) to be direction-based regardless what side the dog is on rather then having an additonal (turn) that means turn tight away from me over the jump and come back across the plan. Basically as you mentioned you have.

I am also contemplating doing direction based with the backside wrap commands. Right now I have Zoom to do what your Dig does on the backside wrap and the command Wrap to do what your In does on the threadle wrap.

Most of the time with Beka I am out of the picture and quite far behind so I am thinking direction-based might make more sense so she knows what to do regardless of what side she is technically on when she is way ahead of me.

I am trying to think of what might be a disadvantage of doing the backside wraps as direction based on but haven’t really coom up with any so far.

Wondering your thoughts might be on doing direction or handler based on backside wraps?

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Did you get a chance to take a look at the Turn and Burn video?

re the wobble board, ok, I did plan to continue using tugging on the board but just wanted to let you know of my concerns re relying on arousal to get her over any issues she might have.

the area is pretty small but it is about the only place I have right now that I am willing to let the board hit without any protection under it in order to get some noise from it. I won’t do it on the newly refinished hardwood – LOL! Although, maybe I can find a couple of plywood pieces to get noise that way and could use it in the basement then. will have to look around.

I try to use longer tugs generally.

With the wandering around I think at lest some of that is the fact it’s was her first time in the basement and while I gave her a good bit of time to look around and check things out it is really new for her. I do like the idea of tugging after every every rep.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Novel Exciting –

<Flip that around: have her outside of the room, get everything set, then bring her in and go right into work. The goal is that her brain is able to ignore the object in the environment without checking it out first>

Ah! got it! So a question. Do I need to find new things to do this with in our next session or can I use the same ones? I don’t want to try a toy for a few sessions I think.

Motion:

<When adding noise/movement, bring her into the session with the toy – tugging before you ask for the rocker board, then tugging on it. That higher arousal state will basically guarantee she doesn’t care about the movement or noise. Coming in on treats can make the noise or movement more obvious and possibly concerning.>

I have done a couple more rockerboard sessions since this one. I am going to say I am not comfortable relying on heightened arousal to get her comfy on the board. When Rayven said ‘no’ to the teeter as an older puppy (literally couldn’t get her within 15′ of a table to table set up) I had to stop trying to get her arousal level up high enough to overcome her concern and just let her get comfortable in very small steps and went right back to starting with just playing without adding arousal on a wobble board that barely moved, then a teeter set pratically on the ground and raising it really slowly (a chain link at a time). Took the better part of a year but she has the best teeter I’ve ever taught with no fear of it at all.

This is our last session on the rockerboard:

https://youtube.com/shorts/HBUdHs2_eSM?feature=share

Parallel Path.

I’ve done a couple of sessions just saying hunt and tossing, that seems to be starting to work for getting her to mostly look forward.

Our first time working in the basement now that we’ve got it set up again. I wanted something easy for her to do first after some exploring. She was a bit distracted here and there. Now I can work some of the stuff that was really hard to do upstairs or outside when working alone.

Balance Discs:

Did a session with a bunch of balance discs.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9aZl-F_xeoc?feature=share

Turn and Burn:

We also tried a bit of Turn and Burn in the basement. I had done a short try of this previously.

I started with just the bowl to bowl since we were in the basement for the first time and then did the sending around. Going around on the left turn is still the tough one for her to do but thought it was ok overall.

Thanks!

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

HI Tracy

>
>wondering when we get to a point where she bould decide not to bring it back and has the room I would be tempted to use a line as I did in the earlier drive ahead video.
>

When you say not bring it back – do you mean she makes off and runs around with it?
<

This was more about teaching the retrieve the way you do it in the lesson, starting in a small space, toss toy and reqard for any coming back to you with the toy. I will do this way also some as I figure using different ways will build different pictures of what a retireve could look like and be a good experience.

So doing it that way once she has more space to go around me I was thinking put a line on either the toy or her so she can’t get too far with the toy.

However, I will say that today (for the first time) she was actually bringing a toy to me to get me to play with her in some way (catch, tug, fetch), we weren’t playing a retrieve game at all and I wasn’t asking her to bring it to me. YAY!!

We played a few games this weekend based on some of the things you have mentioned.

Saturday:

SSC PT2 –

I added a word that isn’t my jump wing wrap but is a word I’ll use to ask her to go around something, like a cone. We’ve not used the word before though.

https://youtu.be/1Oik1y_2O5c

Parallel Path:

https://youtu.be/cNVCbm969Yc

this was better than I thought it might be as I don’t feel she it that strong on going to the hat. I will look at adding lateral distance.

Sunday:

Rockerboard on tile, muffled some:

https://youtube.com/shorts/13DJdpHWCjY?feature=share

the rocker board is wrapped in the shelf liner that is that checkerboard with holes in it so will always have some cushion to it. Next time I’ll work on taking out the mats under the edges.

Balance discs:

https://youtube.com/shorts/KY6a37Ww7hQ?feature=share

Novel Exciting:

started with an empty feed bowl on a cut down stool. Added a closed bag of treats – that was a bit harder to start. Thinking next time I start with that set up?

https://youtube.com/shorts/2a7vJ1WMiLM?feature=share

Thanks!

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

for the balance disc I tried taking out some air but couldn’t (seems blocked by dirt – I used that one outside quite a bit) so a tried using two of my smaller ones, not terribly successful as similar to the plank she kept looking up at me and didn’t get all 4 feet on it. Will try with 3/4 of them next.

Did the rocker board again and got the supports out completely with no seeming issues.

https://youtu.be/7p-ExirXLbM

I’ll pull out my wobble board and cushion 2 of the sides quite a bit and then repeat removing them.

SSC Part 2:

Worked on this a few time since my last post on it, struggling some but this is better.

https://youtu.be/xeH_2VQyRkk

Backing Up:

OK, wo I tried this a bit as you had in the video, but is bothers my back with all the bending and Kyrie wasn’t really ending to back up, just kept sniffing the ground for more treats.

So trying how I taught Ziva and Rayven and sat on the ground with tossing the treat between her legs, and got some backing up. I will put in the mat with texture for her to back up to also.

https://youtu.be/CQOWbimRcQo

Reinforcement Strategies lesson:

Kyrie does a lot of the things you listed to work on, most are in various videos already.

For the retrieving I was doing the 2 two version before calls started. Right now I do it sitting on the floor, toss a toy, and will let her see the toy i have and she coming to grab it. the toy she has doesn’t always make it all the way back, but usually, depends on how much attention I bring to the toy I have.

I’m going to do the lesson version too, but wondering when we get to a point where she bould decide not to bring it back and has the room I would be tempted to use a line as I did in the earlier drive ahead video.

That would be ok?

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi tracy

<Do you have anyone who can hold her? >

I’ll get Todd to hold her and see how that goes outside.

Had a NASDA trial this weekend so didn’t get much work in but did a couple of things yesterday and today.

Goat Tricks with Balance Disc

https://youtu.be/OSPyye0cJ6s

Goat Tricks with Rocker Board

https://youtu.be/7KPvp5LKKDk

once she is completely comfortable with this I’ll pull out my big wobble board. I wanted to start by keeping the tipping to one direction.

Wing Wrap Foundation with Popup Laundry basket

https://youtu.be/NE04r9bsXEc

I did do a couple of sessions working up to standing and then one swapping from the upright to the laundry basket (that one didn’t video for some reeason).

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Ok, will try all of that next time I do these.

Tonight we tried the toy races in the LR, no ideal but best I have for right now.

I need to use a long line on the toy next time so she can’t run away with it.

I am also slower than I was 4 years ago with Beka so beating Kyrie is going to be hard. I’ll try the treat toss in the basement once it’s set up again. The push back method is not going to help anywhere near enough – LOL!

have also done a couple more wing wrap foundation session and starting to make progress with treats and the bowl, still does some licking but much better. I will likely have to move the pole out fairly slowly as the left turn back is definitely harder for her to do and go around the pole.

Video is our latest session.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

OK, will move the bowl more quickly. I am also going to try it using a toy as the object to see how that goes. I will also be more mindful of getting her lined up on these.

Tonight we did a bit of the Goat Tricks 2 with movement (very minor movement) and Plankrobatics.

Goat Tricks 2 – Movement:

https://youtu.be/AzoE3truEPE

Pretty easy for her. When I first let her in the room before recording she went right to is and got on it.

Thinking of trying one of my large balance discs next.

Plankrobatics:

https://youtu.be/MKMXB3yYvyU

she has no issues getting on it but looking up at me tends to mean one rear foot ends up off so will have to adjust things.

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

I started working on the Game Package 2 games (probably should do those before starting any Pkg 3 games – LOL!)

Only managed to do SSC Pt2 Baby level. I hadn’t previously taught a word for getting a treat out of a bowl so did that first. Then I did the game from both sides, with breaks for her to play with her toys between each.

Couldn’t find my pylons, they got moved during our renos, so used my Ryobi fan as the cone. Of course I found the cones after I finished.

SSC Pt2 – Baby Level

DOL – https://youtu.be/J2yedTi1oAc

DOR – https://youtu.be/zhLT0PyW0JA
* I tried a different type of toy for tugging on that she really likes to tug on just to use something different. switched to a regular tug at the end.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Back from our trial and caught up on things so finally did some work today.

<She doesn’t want to visit unknown people who approach her and that is perfectly fine.>

This varies wildly. Some strangers she goes right up to, others not, same with the infamous guy in a hat, some she goes right up to and others she doesn’t.

<For the neutral object, ideally it is in the room before she enters and she doesn’t see you place it. If she sees you putting it into place, that can draw attention to it or even accidentally cue her to interact with it >

Ah, missed that part somehow. I will say that she has been a lot like Beka in that she goes right to the new thing in a room.

I redid the Send to Prop and tired some of the more advanced options to it to see what I got. Also redid the Wing Wrap Foundation and added in the upgright to see what I got.

Send to Prop:

https://youtu.be/Pni0VIzjkLM

Wing Wrap Foundation:

Not up to standing yet. She definitely has more trouble turning back to the left to change direction. She also doesn’t always want to let go of the tug toy when it goes still. I had done a session with treats but still struggling with her wanting to sniff the ground for other treats and treats are definitely something that brings her arousal down as compared to toys.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<I think a longer, flatter/slimmer toy will be a better option so she can grab it and lean back and really tug..

I have a variety of course so can use one of the other ones.

<She turned off the tug toy a bit around :50 because you were saying ‘tug’ but not moving the toy or playing… tug is a two way game 🙂 so be sure you are moving and engaging and playing the whole time (and not immediately getting treats or planning the next rep).>

Got it, right now I am not doing too much actual tugging on my part and letting her do as much as she wants as she is losing her baby teeth.

<The space here worked well! But you can also take this game outside. You can use a big towel to toss the start cookie onto so she doesn’t lose it in the grass.?

I will try that and see how it goes. We have been doing restrained recalls in the yard pretty regularly but I didn’t think to try any at the trial and will try the blinds in our restrains at home too. Will see if i get a chance to do it at this weekends trial (her first road trip).

Worked on a couple of things since the trial and did some video at the trial for the resilience game.

Resilience Game at new trial location:

The video is from the first couple of minutes of walking with her at the trial on Saturday morning. The sheltie you see a bit of was a new dog for Kyrie and they had just met before this video started and had a little play session with Kyrie trying to figure out how to play with him.

She noticed a puppy in a kennel after walking through the narrow entry path. As a lot of people go through it first thing I didn’t want to hang there for long. She was mostly pretty interested in vestigatig things we walked by. Wasn’t too sure about the first person she sees on the video (but a new person that she met when she played with the sheltie she was fine with off the bat). There was a flag pole and a bit of wind that caused some noise that didn’t seem to bother her. She noticed a person jog by but just took a look. Over the weekend she met several dogs and played/interacted a bit with most of them (and had a good play with her borderpap buddy who is half her weight). The people she met varied as to her reaction (hats – especially combined with men – sometimes were an issue, sometimes not – used to that with all my BC’s as puppies). But overall she was pretty comfortable all weekend when I was able to get her out for a while and checked out a bunch of things during our walks, watched some runs with a bit of interest here and there but no over the top reactions to anything, but of course she has no idea that agility is a fun thing yet….

https://youtube.com/shorts/q2KEGN6K7jI?feature=share

Goat Tricks – with pillow and then with a cushion

I tried a pillow, too small, so I remembered I kept one seat cushion for an old couch to use in fitness work and oulled that out, was easier.

pillow – https://youtu.be/8IZYiJH4T1I

cushion – https://youtu.be/jonIYsbpT8A

SSC Work:

Tonight we did the SSC game.

Just the treat toss – https://youtube.com/shorts/aP75Emynybw?feature=share

Neutral Item – phone video tripod – https://youtube.com/shorts/K2jnY5WHzow?feature=share

She did investigate the tripod as soon as I put it out on the floor before I started recording.

General question –

I know that the second games package is out and that the games build on the previous ones but should I work through the first games package again and try the advanced versions as appropriate before moving onto the next set of games?

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

OK, will try all the things you suggested next time we play Drive Ahead. the pouncing is pretty funny!

Played a couple more games today and also did another session of the prop pre game with the hat using your suggestions.

These are in the order I did them today, first two we played in the morning and the hat prop work we did tonight.

Drive to Handler:

On this one how should I change where I have the treat to get her to straighten up when she stops? She also does this when we do a bit of heeling and I ask for a sit in position. There I have actually held the treat farther from my leg to get her to straighten up before she sits.

https://youtube.com/shorts/3Hoe-DTaPRE?feature=share

Blind Cross Foundations:

Not really enough space to do this upstairs unless I stand still, which might help with not being late on doing the blind, which I was at least once. Also had a bit of a treat toss fail on one rep and I messed up entirely on one of them.

https://youtu.be/uFTdnXqviA4

Pre Game – Foot To Target

Ok, here is my redo with tossing the treat for her to get it.

https://youtu.be/TY8nvlmNksI

Send to Prop:

hmm, with food in my hand she is too focused on my hand so I tried with a toy and a couple of times she looked at the prop more. Should I do a couple more sessions of the pre game foot target and tossing to see if that helps getting her to stop looking at my hand?

https://youtu.be/pLDSZEZuvoE

Have a AAC trial this weekend so might not get much in the way of gems done, but I am going to try to video a bit related to the resilience game as Kyrie’s never been to the location before. She’s been to a couple of trials but last one was a month ago.

I have a question about the Shaping in Arousal game.

Kyrie is already a pretty good size (she really needs to stop growing! LOL!). She’s been on pretty much everything I have that would meet your criteria for the game and be something that I can move in and out easily.

My only thought of what I have that she hasn’t been on that would be decently easy for her to get on would be one of the pillows we have for the couch but not sure it’s a great choice.

Thanks

Lori

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<But adding the ‘hunt’ helped keep her engaged! You can use that as the primary reward – mark the hit with ‘hunt’ then throw the treat away for her to, well, hunt for LOL

Or you can use your ‘yes’ marker but instead of feeding at the target, extend the other hand (with the cookie in it) out away from you for her to move to.>

Got it will use more tossing. might help with the work when I have the target in my right hand (I do find it easier with the target in my left hand) to get her further away.

<When rewarding at the hat, you can drop it on the hat so she is not watching your hand as much. You can see she was adding in looking at you>

Ahh, ok, got it! and will do a session with strictly tossed rewards before trying the send game.

Only game we played today was the driving ahead one. We went to a rat ‘hunting’ practise for a trial in a few weeks for Ray and Beka and Kyrie is trying it out too.

Driving Ahead:

Not sure why she started hacking when she did, I wasn’t pulling on the collar when I was holding it and she wasn’t pulling against it. Just had the one rep where she played bucking bronco and I waited for her to settle down.

Couldn’t help but laugh at the pouncing. She does it quite violently when we play two toy retrieves.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy!

I never even thought to turn the bowls over (think the treats would’ve bounced off though), will try something different next time using the treats. Will work with toys first then treats as you suggest.

When tugging today I tried just holding the toy still as you suggested and that worked pretty well. You’ll see in the videos of the pregames below.

THEY ARE CHRISTMAS WUBBAS – Santa and a Snowman! Ok, will let her play tug a bit before banging the other other one to get her to move.

Will try a wingless jump wing next time with that game.

I videoed the pregames today.

Pregame 2 – Nose to Target

Did this one first. I did a bit of a combo of rewarding at the target and tossing away. She seems a bit stronger at it when the target is in my left hand.

Pregame 1 – Foot Target

Did this sometime later. I did my first session with a shoe but didn’t really like using that given she has so far been really good about ignoring the shoes in the house. So I found a hat I don’t use anymore and this is our first session using it.

Thanks

Lori

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