[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Well, thinking right now we might be skipping anything involving food as a reward for a bit.

Pretty sure she is coming into her first season and it’s looking like she is one of the females that goes off food (my first experience with that). She hasn’t been interested in her breakfast or dinner for a couple of days (breakfast for longer). Treats are ok but not hugely exciting, even the good stuff she usually likes a lot.

So no point doing anything that means rewarding with food as it isn’t going to be a reward for her.

Seriously crappy timing.

Sigh.

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi

>Yes, a wing jump or chair is fine, as long as they are solid and will hold the teeter. And the lower teeter is fine too.<

I have a bunch of the clip and go wings and they work pretty well, and she isn’t terribly heavy either.

<use incredibly high value rewards with only one or two reps per session.>

that is always an issue with this non-foodie BC, nothing is crazy high value, and it seems like if it might be she wants to play with it.

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Question about the week one games – what are you using as treats that the dogs are finding them so easily in the grass?

On the teeter game – I have nothing that I can use to prop up a full height teeter so I assume lower is ok? Like a wing jump like I have seen used?

Also, Beka has shown some concern about heights at the vet on the exam table, we worked on that and she is pretty good now, but I won’t be surpised if she shows some issues with the height of the teeter. Would it also be ok to start doing this much lower – for example to an agility table instead – and raise it up from there?

Thanks

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

HI Tracy

<if all the verbals are the same volume and style of delivery, the training of the verbals to fluency is much harder.>

Will try just not sure that I will be very successful, especially running a course.

<So getting right onto the diagonal and moving towards the center of the bar will help set the line a lot sooner>

hmm, I have to wonder if the angle of where the camera was is throwing things off. It wasn’t dead center of the jump pointing at the wing, it was off to the side some. I was running pretty straight to the center of the jump before cutting across. I will put a leash down to make sure next time.

<So getting right onto the diagonal and moving towards the center of the bar will help set the line a lot sooner (and don’t throw til after you see hre head turn). If she is struggling, you can place a toy out on the landing spot but you still will want to get right on the RC diagonal.>

Hadn’t really noticed that, will try to be more aware of that. I was considering pulling the TnT out to use, especially for the left turns.

Have always hated teaching RCs. It is always a struggle as I have always been way too late.

<I know a lot of people do use that ‘check mark’ arm cue to send the dogs back out, but I recommend you do not cue her to get into the tunnel by flicking your arm back out – the verbal and arm *are* the cue to go to the tunnel entry, and if she waits for you to flick her out to it, then you have one more thing you have to time. Plus, if you are behind her or not that close, having to flick her back out becomes very challenging. >

Hmm, that makes sense but my question would be how is that different from a regular threadle for a jump say, or since it’s a threadle it should be the same, which would make sense.

And in case you see this that get me wondering about something else – tandem turns – I was looking at the turn away video again and you mention using 2 hands but in the video use use one with contraband and do the flick away with it? You also mention it will likely involve the threadle verbal depending on the circumstance. So how is the ‘regular’ threadle, tunnel threadle and tandem turn different? They are starting to strike me as not being really different and the hand signals seem to be pretty much the same?

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<So for the left/ right versus wraps, visualize a jump bar there (the dog would be approaching the jump bar straight as they are heading to the wing>
<Massive collection, head turning a lot, needing to come back around the wing immediately? Wrap verbals.>

Yep, I have been trying to do that when considering the verbal to use. When doing the figure 8 type turns between the wings she has to collect and turn even tighter than a regular wrap where she goes around the width of the wing so now thinking it should be a wrap verbal and not a left right at all.

<The ‘forward’ verbals like Go and tunnels should be louder and longer: GOOOOO GOOOOOOO and TUNNEL TUNNNNNNELLLLL. The wraps should be very short and very quiet, almost whispered 🙂 And the soft turn verbals should be medium volume and medium length (which is why I make mine sound like questions, so I can’t yell them LOL!)>

LOL!!! This is highly unlikely to happen in any significant way at least. You play flyball now – you know there are some people that are really loud – well that is me in spades. It is very hard for me to seriously adjust my loudness, especially when running. I will try but thinking I won’t be terribly successful.

<For the patterning and tunneling even when you rotated like at 1:13 and 1:21, I would revisit the wing/tunnel proofing game now that everything is outside AND more exciting>

Ahh, will do that!

<She had a bit of a question at 1:32 – doing the soft right while accelerating into the bind was hard for her to read (we want the verbals and physical cues to match at this stage) so she was a bit wide – a decel and even a FC would work better for a tighter tunnel exit there.>

I reviewed the this part of the video – the ‘ri’ into the tunnel was to get a right turn out of the tunnel, I switched to ‘bye’ as she was exitting the tunnel as that is my backside command when it is just coming back across the jump plane and not doing a 360 wrap – but now you have me wondering if I shouldn’t use a different word for that one since they do sound a lot alike. I use ‘push’ with Rayven because ‘bye’ puts Ray seriously over her arousal threshold.

<Nice job getting the blinds in to change sides before the jump bump! She was hustling which makes it harder, but you got the connections to her and she was both able to pick up the new side AND get committed to the jump after it as you turned and left – this is VERY EXCITING!!! Super cool! It will be easier when bars come into the picture because you will have more time, and she will have an easier time applying jumping skills to all of this because she has a lot of understanding of the handling already. Hooray!>

Exciting and sort of scary – I think she really likes doing the wraps – you’ll see a bit of that in the videos below and some of my issues – it seems pretty easy to push her off lines to backsides (to the left at least)…..

Week 4 – Wind in the Hair Pt 2:

Rear Crosses –

Have done a few sessions, left has been really difficult but seems to be getting a bit better. Right went really well immediately.

Back Sides –

I think she really likes the wraps (LOL!). I messed up my first backside line and pushed her way wide but she managed it.

Week 5 – Concept Transfer – Rear Crosses

Did this tonight, it did not go well at all, tried several things to get it to work with no success to the right. tried the left since she kept turning that way, but kept pushing around the back of the jump, adjusted the tunnel exit a bit and got a left turn.

Not sure how to help her with this? Work on the wind in the hair version for longer before trying again??

Edited to add in what we did today.

week 7 – Tunnel Threadles

Haven’t done anything with these since the first game early on. Decided to steal your word for it as it occurred to me that my word ‘me’ is way too similar to ‘le’ and since we only had the one game using it should be easy to adjust.

Did a quick refresher of just sitting her and doing the threadle to introduce the new word. Then did the baby and advanced. She did pretty great. I am off on timing of switching the verbal from the wrap to the threadle. I did a couple not too badly.

Thanks for a fun course and looking forward to MaxPup 3!

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Thank you!

I have one from today I need to edit and post and was planning on another tomorrow – Rain messed us up for a couple of days this week.

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Just checking – in my thread you mentioned that the last day for videos is May 20th?

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<When adding all of these words with a new pup, do a 1:1 ratio of run it without the dog (with the correct verbals) then run it with the dog (with correct verbals). The errors happen when we run it with the dog each time and don’t practice the verbals.>

Good idea. I applied that today on the Week 4 Diamond set up and that went a lot better, but those distances are still pretty small so all those verbals are hard to get in. LOL!

<She is very very responsive to the blinds you did at the end at 3:16 and 3:31. But, do them a lot sooner 🙂 You started them after she reached the wing and ideally the blind would be finished by them. So, when you see her approx halfway between the tunnel and the wing, start the blind – it provides her a picture of what the timing will be and also challenges her to maintain commitment. And keeping your arms in tight to your ribs will help you be really quick with the connection on the new side of the blind, which really helps keep it nice and tight too.>

She did fab to come in on those given how late I was on them. I tried to do them earlier on the Diamond setup, I was successful to a point but I can probably be a little earlier.

Week 4 – Diamond.

So here it is, Did the baby part late morning and the advanced a few hours later. Did the racetracks between each of the longer sequences as balance. The first racetrack took a bit of sorting out on my part as it was the first time doing it on any set up this big and I wasn’t sure how much to push or hold back a bit with her. The first time she came out of the tunnel like I was tossing the toy for her – LOL!

We struggled with the initial work requiring the figure 8’s in the baby. She kept wanting to go to the tunnel, probably some leftover patterning from the last session and I also need to rethink the appropriate verbal to use where. I saw on the video you were using left and right here but I am no longer sure about that, but also not sure the wrap verbals (check and dig) are right either since it isn’t really a wrap on these figure 8 type shapes. Also thinking that the turns around the wing on my le/ri commands to go to the tunnel versus those to get the figure 8 type shape are confusing for her (and me) although I know that my position/motion on those (go to the tunnel vs tight wrap back) SHOULD help differentiate it all for her.

I am basically uncertain about which of these verbals I should use where on these different entrances and exits.

On one sequence I was way too early on my Le command (did at the entrance to the tunnel instead of on the exit) and she seemed to actually comme in some on exiting the tunnel.

Baby –

Advanced –

One additional comment here – OMG! She was fabulous on the sequence with the 360 wing wrap after the blind! Totally surprised me that we got it in both directions.

And YAY! She gets to see you in July! So excited!

Thanks

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

Redid the Tunnel Exit work we did after reading your comments and tried to match things up better. It went much better and we added in the parts of the Baby section that we didn’t do in the last one. My verbals, especially left (OMG!), were a mess today – but it’s just one session….

The video is two sessions we did today combined together. For a while the trucks and construction vehicles were moving around in the hydro yard next door and she was quite distracted by that – I held her collar for her setups then.

thanks

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<This will depend on the dog and how she naturally exits the tunnels – if she exits the tunnels looking straight down the line naturally, you probably don’t need the go 🙂 If she is more likely to turn and look at you? Then yes, add the Go.>

Ahh, that makes sense. So it will likely be a bit of time before I figure that out for her.

<I think you can add in the Rear Cross game to this one too!>

Didn’t see rear crosses mentioned in the description for this one but will do. We haven’t gotten back to the initial rear cross work with the jump bump from earlier in the course as I wanted to redo it outside with the room it needs. Will redo that first before adding it in other set ups.

Week 2 – Tunnel Exits

So we tried the set up for the baby part today. Only ended up doing seq 1 (turn) and 2 (straight) in each direction as the turns were harder to get. Not surprising given we did a few sessions of work on going straight out of the tunnel to eventually get the wing wrap at a closer distance. Balancing back will take a bit. On the left after the first 2 errors I removed the one wing and worked on the turn without that distraction, took a bit (this was the direction we did most straight work in). Other direction wasn’t as hard to get a turn out of the tunnel.

yes, forgot to repeat my ‘go’ when I should’ve. And was late a lot, had to reduce ‘tunnel’ to ‘tunn’, got a bit quicker towards the end.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

We have worked the tunnel exit game some but haven’t videoed it yet. She has no trouble doing the turns out of the tunnel, at least without the straight exit – LOL! Working on the straight out of the tunnel in order to get the wrap around the wing ahead. Getting the wrap on the wing is taking a bit, she had to figure out the tight turns into the other end of the straight tunnel so I could be up to help her with the wraps even with the wing only 6-8′ beyond the tunnel. Will video it next time we do it just so you can see where we are.

One question with the wing wrap straight out of the tunnel – Would it be the go command before she enters the tunnel and then the wrap verbal while she is in the tunnel (or exiting)? that is what I have been trying to do but wondering.

Week 3 – Find the Jump

Decided to work on this game today for something different. she had fun with this one. I am again late with my go verbal entering the tunnel, started to get better towards the end of our second session tonight where I added distance from the tunnel to the jump. First session jump was about 12′-ish out in the evening session it was closer to 22-25′. My lateral lines don’t really look all that lateral in the video but I was more lateral on those then it looks. I did one rep at the end hanging out at the tunnel so she could really get ahead, forgot on the other side.

She is figuring out her striding to the jump bunp on the various reps, changing it some.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<use your ‘tug it’ marker when you wanted her to get the toy – you used her name sometimes, a get it sometimes, and tug it sometimes so she wasn’t driving to you entirely there.>

Yes, the Beka was calling her out of the tunnel and then I didn’t always get the ‘tug it’ in, and I still mess up ‘tug’ versus ‘get’ – too many years of just using ‘get’ for off the ground and in the hand – will take more than a couple of months to sort that out – LOL!

<Do you mean the wing before the tunnel? It migh tend up being a soft turn cue – envision a bar there and see what works best – I would use a left or right for my big dogs (and maybe just a genreal jump verbal or nothing for the littles who don’t need to collect on a bar in that scenario).>

Yes. i am leaning toward it’s a nothing since the exit from the jump isn’t any kind of a turn. Based on one of your explanations a bit ago of left and right being for what shape the exit from the jump is those don’t seem correct since the exit is a straight line with no turn right after the jump. I almost put jumps in those spots with the bumps in place specifically because of that question but opted to stick with the game setup.

<You are in GOOD trouble! She is going to be FUN FUN FUN and we also have 10,000 verbals now in her foundation, so you will always have a ‘tool’ to cue her on course>

Oh, yes will be a lot of fun. She is just such a goof and in a number of ways not the same drivey as either Rayven or Ziva I had been thinking (well…hoping) she might be the puppy that lets me ease into running her on courses and builds up speed as she gets more confident. I don’t think that is going to happen – LOL!

Week 1 – Wind in the Hair

So, since we are outside now I decided to work this again so we could build up distance that we couldn’t do in the basement and as a bit of prep for doing the tunnel exits game next. No issues here 🙂 Started at about 12-14′ ended up at almost 30′, no problems driving ahead. Problems with the toy throwing, started with the hollee ball tug – too hard to throw decently so switched to milker part way through.

I have the tunnel exit game set up now and have a couple of questions:
– Should we do a few ‘go’ games with the tunnel too before playing it? I looked for a game that did this before the tunnel exit game but not seeing one (maybe max pup 1?) as I think she might need that practise as prep since she has never had a chance to blast out of a tunnel in the basement.
– Only have a 20′ tunnel in the yard right now, should we shorten it up, mostly for the go part to the wing? thinking it is going to be hard to help show her to go around the wing the times she goes straight out of the tunnel like you do with Elektra in the video.

thanks!

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

OK, good on all of that.

Now that we can play outside I am going back to the early stuff that we couldn’t do because the basement doesn’t have the room.

Week 1 – Smiley Faced Game

Oh wow! I am going to be thinking fast on my feet with the new words. I had the wings I think about 10-12′ away from the tunnel exits – will move them farther out.

Baby –

Still working through some distractions – leaves (LOL!) and a couple of birds screaming at each other from time to time and some flying overhead, and looking at the toy in my hand. She did great though. I messed up the first race track line, too close to the wing and moving way too slow.

Advanced –

She was AMAZE BALLS! We did the course you put in the notes in both directions. You will notice I don’t use words on one wing – still not sure what command (if any really) that turn needs to be. I think it might not need to be anything. I am way too slow on the last wrap to the other tunnel entrance, she either cuts behind me or at least looks at doing that.

I am in big trouble as usual – LOL!

Thanks

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<You can ask for the ‘out’ on the retrieve toy while she is still on the way back to you and then reward by throwing the next toy the other direction, past you>

ahve tried this in the past and she doesn’t drop the toy with the out, just runs by towards the other toy and then decides if she is going to let go or not to pick up the other toy (both are milkers). Same thing Rayven did when I did this with her.

With the rain I tried a bit of fetch in the basement and gave her some cheese if she dropped the toy when she got clode to me. Had some success with that. Seems cheese might be more important then toys.

<So no need to go find more PVC bumps, 4 is plenty>

Excellent. Really hard to find a source of 8″ sched 40 pipe and the Canadian one I did find a 5′ section was over $100CAD.

Another contact question – I was intending on buying the teeter course to work on this summer. Does it cover everything start to finish, including the way you are teaching the 2o2o now? I am also a little confused about the tracks mentioned on the course, especially the uphil/downhill ones.

Week 8 – Lateral Lead Outs

With the rain I figured this was one of the few things we could do in the basement apces wise that we hadn’t tried yet.

Baby –

She had a little trouble with the wait working the DOL side so did some work there (cut most of that out to shorten the video), but once that was done she did well. The DOR side she had no trouble with that. I think I was overlapping my release with the step and point, fixed it towards the end.

Advanced –

Gave this a bit of a shot tonight. Set up a bit differently and could set her back from the jump a little farther giving a bit more time for me to release and do the pointing. She did pretty well, I messed up on a couple of things. I used le and ri when I should’ve used dig and check on the FC we did. On the DOL side where I just tried to do a 180 type turn to the 2nd jump she kept coming inside the jump. I think I did a couple of things wrong – turned away too soon and didn’t say connected. it also feels like I am too still but given the position of the leadout it is hard to show any motion. Although she had no problem with that on DOR but I did stay connected better.

Thanks

Lori

[Lori-Anne Harker]

Hi Tracy

<Based on course evolution with all of the options we see now… I would give the dog the info before all of the entries at this point, so there are no questions.>

OK, will try it out for the straight exits, not fully convinced though 🙂

<Since we ideally want to drop the reward on the landing side of the jump to create maximum independence… How is her retrieve outdoors?>

I actually tested her retrieve outdoors today (she was very happy!). It is good, up to the 5 or 6 feet before she gets to me. She likes to play with the toys at that point, shaking them and bounding around with them, especially the milker, which I want as my goto reward eventually. Haven’t got the “put it in my hand” part installed yet (SIGH). It’s shaping and, while she is better at that, it’s still difficult so I admit to not having done a lot of work on that part with her. Need to commit to doing a little bit every day on it.

No video, but we while we were out playing fetch we played a bit with the setup again and it went even better, not quite as distracted between the 4 or 5 reps and my lines were better. Dropped the toy in on landing but think I need to do that sooner as by the time it hits the gorund she was almost to the wing nearest the tunnel.

Two questions –
– OK to drop as soon as it looks like she is committed to the backside?
– Best hand to have the toy in, dog side or other? Dog side feels right given the exit line after the wrap but wanted to check. And maybe it depends on what stage we are at regarding getting around the exit wing?

Supposed to get a bunch of rain this weekend but by end of next week temps will (hopefully) being shooting up to around 70F

Max pup 3 question – Since that will be getting into sequencing and we are only using jump bumps so far do you expect by then we can start using low bars or still likely bumps? I only have 4 jump bumps and it might be hard to get the 8″ pvc so if we might need a couple more probably need to start looking now.

Thanks

Lori

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Lori-Anne Harker.

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