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Hi Tracy
Tried rocking Horse with a small toy today as I wanted to make sure there would be no hanging bits and it would be less in her face for this one. She did pretty good, will try a larger toy next time. I also did a little bit of it with the side sends. Used words for some and not towards the end.
With trying to get some of it more correct I probably wasn’t transitioning very well, and maybe not enough distance between barrels anyways?
Week 6 – Rocking Horse with a toy
Week 6 – Rocking Horse Rotated with a toy
Week 5 – Running Contact Foundation
Also, finally did a few the running contact foundation sessions. I have pondered at times doing running for situations where it made sense but I’m super slow so don’t see how it could work on a lot of courses and I do USDAA which still allows those tight turns from contacts into tunnels, AAC effectively doesn’t anymore with some recent changes and UKI isn’t local yet. So think I would have to teach both running and stopped. I know you did it with Export, not sure if you have/are teaching both to any of the other dogs.
Didn’t tape the first two sessions, so this one is the third and is doing the Through work using a dog blanket. I might have a pause box somewhere but it is likely in the storage building so not available easily.
She’s sort of interesting in that she seems to move faster in one direction (into the hallway) than the other. The prior session it was even more pronounced.
I’ve been working with the TnT/MM and it doesn’t seem to bother her, sound or noise. Should I add it in for the reward at all?
Week 6 – Prop for Get Out
Finally tried the Get out using the prop. I did a couple of things wrong here and there.
Baby –
Oops on the first couple here I was stepping towards the bag with the outside foot, pretty much corrected it after.
Also, realize now I probably shouldn’t have called her name on the couple that we didn’t do the out on and just done a normal release to see if she would simply come to my side.
Advanced –
Called her name on the ones we didn’t do the out here also. Not sure I was early enough on some of the outs.
Editted to Add:
Week 6 – Serp on a Jump – Baby
Tried the Serp on a Jump baby level tonight. Was interesting to see the differences in what she did turning right versus turning left.
Right –
Here I was tossing the treat for her to go get it but it wasn’t always getting her into the right area for the angle I was after. In this direction she physically touched the target pretty much every time.
Left –
I thought I would see if she would sit for this direction to try to get the angles I wanted. She did pretty good until the end when she started anticipating and I didn’t notice a couple because I was looking at the target. So won’t do this again without more work on the sit while I am doing stuff.
On this side she only touched the target a couple of times. This is the direction she seems to turn a bit better around the barrel though so maybe why?
Should I work on getting the touch even though we are going to fade it in the advanced level?
Week 7 – remote reinforcement marker
I’ve read through and watched the video and still a little confused about the marker word so I have a question.
Why are you using an entirely new word/phrase and aren’t using the word that would be appropriate for the type of reward and it’s placement? eg if ‘get it’ meant get the treat from where it is why not use that instead of ‘let’s go’? Wouldn’t the word/phrase that accurately describes what and where the reward is make more sense?
Thanks
Lori
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Hi Tracy
Re the TnT/MM – Ok, so no problem using the wheel with the larger holes just make sure I time sessions so she doesn’t get too many treats.
>>The good thing about having the toys and treats in your hands throughout is that we are layering in self-control. In order to get the toys and treats, she has to pass them. It is worth going back a few steps if this is harder for her, because the self-control is worthwhile and also the clean placement is worthwhile.<<
Ok, I see what you mean on the mechanics and having the toys/treats in the dogside hand. Have been avoiding that as she does tend to think I am tossing a treat for her on sends and goes looking for one since the motions look so similar and not sure how to differentiate that for her. On the very first rep for the rocking horse she is looking for whatever I might have tossed before she goes around the barrel.
Rotated sends –
Ok, can see that would have been a bit confusing for her with my motion. I’ll use the ‘ready’ she seems to really pay attention to that when I use it when we play retrieve games.
I thought she had regrabbed the toy when I corrected her but I see that she still had the long bit off the tug. Ouch.
I was going to ask you before doing these about using the wrap words. Will start using them and try to clean up the rest of the words.
Thanks!
Lori
Hi Tracy
OK, will add that in.
Week 6 – Rocking Horse – Baby
She was being a bit goofy in the basement this time. I did 2 little sessions separated by a little play on the wobble board. First did the single wraps and then did the double wraps. She was mostly being a bit of a goof on the double wraps. Think I will use treats next time to get her into my side, she seemed to think that was the side send.
Week 5 – Rotated Send
this went pretty well, she seems to be doing a bit of anticipication that if we are close to the barrel she should go around it. I didn’t add any distance as the video mentioned this was just about transferring the concept of the handler rotation to the sends.
I have a question re the TreatnTrain – what store bought treats have you used in it?
I have tried peanut butter and salmon mini Zukes and both seem to have problems dropping through the wheel with the smaller holes and it fails more often then it works, with the other wheel it delivers more than one most of the time. I don’t really want to use the wheel with the bigger holes so it doesn’t over deliver as often just to not overdue treats with Beka.
And, I was finally able to shape her to get all four feet into a box where she had to compress her feet together tonight. It was about a foot long. YAY!
Happy New Year!
Lori
Hi Tracy
Ok, will try that.
We played with retrieves in the basement today and that went pretty well. First, I did some tosses, called her and ran away when she got the milker, when she caught me I changed directions a couple of times. I was able to get her close enough to be able to get a hand on it while she was still holding it and played tug with it.
Even managed to get her to retrieve it to me when I was sitting down as long as I called her the way I do for her recalls.
Lori
Hi Tracy
Yes, she seemed to find it easy and to like playing this game.
On the retrieve. We are making progress, but it isn’t where I would want to test it in the basement on a separate exercise yet. Been playing as best we can where I can move away from her upstairs since that seems to be what interests her in bringing a toy that I toss close to me. I think I will try the game in the basement tomorrow where she has more options for places to go with the toy but also allows me more movement, plus gets her used to playing it down there without the pressure of a different game happening at the same time. The giving it to me is going slow since it’s pretty much a dead toy in a small space and that just doesn’t do it for her it seems, but we are plugging away at it.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
Did the parallel path video today. Used a rolled up towel for the bar. A couple of times I clicked a bit late or forgot to say ‘get it’.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
Thanks for the feedback.
Will slow down even more on the tandems (thought I was pretty slow) and do the reward before and after the turn, didn’t think to try that.
Will drop the collar holding, will need to use a bit lower value treat in the bowl and a better treat for following me. We do a fair bit of collar grabbing practise but it’s still not the most fun thing in the world for sure, and walking while holding the collar is a different animal again.
Ahh, got it on using the send handling (arm/foot) when adding distance.
Edit – I got down into the basement today and did a little bit of work on the handling combos again without holding the collar as much (used the tug or treats to get to the starting point) and mostly engagement before the send, and using my arm and leg for the send properly this time.
Did a bit of decel that went decently except that she was distracted by something in the furnace room on the left wraps, so I switched to the right wraps and that was better.
None of it was perfect but i think was a fair bit better overall.
Redo FX/BX –
Adding decel –
Will likely start going to the arena for short sessions with both Beka and Rayven next month so can do some more tunnel work then.
For the tunnel threadles I use ‘me me me’. I’ll assume there will be a game on adding that so will wait for that to come up, have too much to try to catch up on before the next set of games gets posted.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
Merry Christmas!
We’ve been doing stuff the last few days, some I videoed some not.
I think I got everything from your comments. We shall see.
Week 4 – Tandem Turn – Right – Baby
Tried this again, it’s still a bit of a struggle especially when she comes in at a canter since she kicks her rear out, at a trot she comes in straighter. Not sure how to adjust to help her come in straighter?
Week 4 – Tunnel Shaping
Finally pulled in a couple of tunnel bags and set up my 12′ tunnel to practise with. We have done some tunnel recalls with Brigitte on direct lines, but nothing more than that so I decided to start with some shaping. Then I started adding the word (I know know why I don’t repeat this one on course), then I moved back a bit more today and finally did a bit of the threadle work. She struggled a bit with the right turns a couple of times.
You might notice a couple of times she heads off screen left – she’s going over to stand on the wobble board. I have her happily on it with none of the mats under it and she often geos over to get on it. going to try the rocker board next, it has a bit larger drop to it.
Shaping –
Naming – Pt 1
Naming – Pt 2
Threadle –
Week 4 – Handling Combos
Did some work on the handling combos but haven’t gotten very far really, I need to get more distance from the barrel so I can actually try to get the blind crosses in decently and then the decel (haven’t even tried that yet), just finding it a bit hard to get her to commit to the barrel as I try to add distance. Plus all the bending is hard on the back.
trying to add blink crosses
then tried the left wrap with the intent of getting blinds incorporated.
Question – any concerns about her tending to connect with the barrel? It’s certainly wider than a non-wing but not a wing so a bit concerned that this could transfer to a wing.
Thankfully there is nothing new coming this week, maybe I can catch up a bit and get to week 6 before week 7 is posted. Really don’t want to fall too far behind but there is so much to work on.
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
>>my only suggestion is to turn your feet a little more towards the reward hand and less towards the target hand (as much as possible without feeling like a total pretzel.<<
I noticed that when I watched the video.
>>So make sure she sees clear transitions from the toy to the treats – she was starting to drop the toy as your cookie hand moved after that (you kind of pulled the toy away, moved the cookie hand, so she started letting go). We don’t want to lose the toy drive, so be sure to have a clear play-release the toy-move the cookie process for now.<<
OK, will try to keep that in mind, more mechanics that I have gotten lazy with over the years.
>>The next step would be to have the toy dangling so you don’t need to really move your arm or shoulder to present it, just use the tug verbal so she grabs it. Then the step after that is to get the reinforcement to the ground – you can start that with an empty food bowl so she sees the concept then yo can move to the toy on the ground.<<
I wasn’t positive about how to transistion this to toy on the ground without a struggle, thanks for suggesting the food bowl. Imight need to be a plate like I used for the wrap foundation as she likely would still IYC a food bowl. Maybe I should work on a word that (like ‘bowl’) that gives her permission to get the food from the bowl?
>>So no need for a get it on this, it muddies the waters for her.<<
OK, so stick with only using the ‘catch’ option for a bit and probably do separate sessions for the two options for a while also to help with her understanding.
Worked on the Turns Aways today. First time she worked with a significant outside distraction – Todd was doing some baking in the kitchen, you’ll be able to tell where that caught her – but overall she did really well with it. She has of course figured out that someone in the kitchen tends to mean food might be available – LOL! And pretty sure she lost an upper canine at some point doing this. I think we are down to one baby tooth left.
These are in the order I did them over the day.
Week 4 – Turn Away – Lap Turn – Baby
I messed up the first video, accidentally stopped it, so had to redo after a break. The first time she had a bunch of trouble turning right, this session it was much better.
Week 4 – Turn Away – Tandem Turn – Baby
You’ll see on this one the difficulties getting the turn to the right. First one I was late getting going but the others were ok timing I thought. So will have to do some extra work on turns to the right.
Week 4 – Turn Away – Tandem Turn – Adv
Again, turn to right is an issue, but a different one, she keeps heading to the target, something she doesn’t do on the other side. I was trying not to use her name to get her to come in to me but I finally did. Also kept missing the target for the left turn, think I had it too far over?
Week 4 – Turn Away – Lap Turn – Adv
Lap turns to the right went better, but I think I had the target in the wrong spot as she kept missing it.
Thanks
Lori
Hi Tracy
That all pretty much makes sense.
The more videos I watch of what I am doing I notice how bad my mechanics for some of this stuff have gotten over the last few years – OMG today’s videos with timing of my words and actions is awful – YIKES. Need to work on it.
Week 5 (accidentally!) – Retrieve Games (Intermediate)
OK, so I tried another experiment, something I had done with Rayven to work on her retrieve skills in the living room. Did this a couple of times yesterday and videoed it this morning. Took advantage of the fact that she will bring things back to the bed by playing this at it.
NOTE: I didn’t look at the week 5 retrieve stuff until after and then realized that this fits more in that. I hadn’t seen the comments about the two toys and not engaging with the second toy until after she starts to come back, I think I might have done that on the second rep.
Week 4 – Serp/Threadle Foundations – target in right hand
So this is the video with the target in my right hand. Trying to get a video ended up being hysterical, took three tries over the course of a at least a couple of hours. Treats were either rolling or be kicked by her under furniture (so blocked those off), one time she pushed one UNDER the area rug, or she was getting distracted by something on the floor (turned out to be yet another baby tooth, I think just the top canines are left thankfully). Finally got this video.
Week 4 – Sits Two Ways – Shaping
While she is pretty good with a sit on command since this was going to involve tossing the treats where I had been giving her the treats and adding me moving away from her a bit, I opted to let her offer sits.
thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
>>With all of the mechanics and words and new games, definitely practice the mechanics and markers before she comes into the session.<<
Unfortunately, i had prectised before we tried it, and I still messed it up 🙁
>>So when the toy is on the ground, for example: when she hits your target hand, yo can just say get it and she will get the info that the behavior was correct and where to go for reinforcement. <<
Ahh, OK, for some reason I was thinking you were looking for a totally different and new word, you just want me to replace the ‘yes’ with a ‘get it’, ‘tug’, ‘catch’, etc based on the delivery of the reward. DUH!
So, a follow-up question – when is ‘yes’ the appropriate marker? Like, is ‘yes’ appropriate when rewarding at source (eg, when I reward a nose touch at the target)?
>>I think ti wil be even easier in the basement as you mentioned, because she will have more space to move ahead and you will be able to have an easier time getting across behind her.<<
I agree! I like to try things upstairs first when I can before committing to the basement as it is a bit of a production as I have to take treats/toys downstairs, leash her up to walk her down (and until recently carrying her), and then back up with everything for only a couple minutes of work.
Thanks!
Lori
HI Tracy
>>And, plan your reinforcement markers – you had get it got a tossed treat, get it for the toy in your hand, and get it while tugging 🙂 I think you need different cues for get it as a tossed thing versus grab the thing in my hand (and probably just praise when you tug or silly noises :)) And same with treats – you had “yes” as a marker, but when you want to her to leave the target and come to the cookie in your other hand, a separate marker will help her know where to look and where to go, which suits this game really nicely too 🙂<<
EEK! See what happens when I am figuring out something new – I screw up my words. I am trying to use:
– ‘get it’ for the tossed toy/treat,
– ‘take it’ for a toy/treat from my hand that I will let go of,
– ‘tug’ for a game of tug with the toy in my hand (hard to tug on a treat! at least anything I use).So, re the ‘yes’ marker – that for me is just telling her she is correct (it’s my verbal ‘click’ when not using a clicker) and will get a reward, not the delivery location or type of reward. It sounds like you are thinking a different verbal ‘click’ that tells her the reward will be delivered somewhere else??? Isn’t that going to get complicated with a) trying to remember all the words and b) getting all the words in when doing the work?
I’ll try to clean up when I do the target in the other hand.
>>I think maybe you were overly concerned about jumping through it and you were not giving her enough space to do her thing. <<
Not really concerned, just a lame joke 🙂 But you are right she didn’t have enough room on either side with that orientation. A couple of times I restarted her I thought her feet were out of the ladder.
I redid a short session tonight with the plates (out of shot) and in my normal set up for it. We worked a bit on getting her to be able to do it off leash before videoing and only did a couple of down and backs.
>>I almost never toss a toy back to proof not leaving position. I feel it sets dogs up for too much failure and it is also boring as heck, so I can’t think of a time that I do it. <<
I thought we had done that or similar to proof start line stays in some earlier courses but maybe I am thinking another course, have done way too many!
Week 3 – Prop Games – Rear Cross
Finally did a little work on the Rear Cross with the prop. Split into two short sessions, one dog on right and one dog on left. Will probably move this to the basement for future work.
Thanks!
Lori
Hi Tracy
Man, I seem to have a mental block of some sort with the countermotion – I can’t seem to get it straight – sigh. Will try again. She is getting a bit mouthier now, not too bad, been losing teeth for about a month now I think, and almost 5 months old (12/22) so terrible twos are coming!
>>You can get her excited with other games so she is having a grand time playing – then do one rep of this boring game LOL – then back to the other stuff. We can fold it in, slowly, to make it more fun<<
I definitely like this idea.
>>First retrieve was really good!! On the others, I think she was taking a moment to decide wher to grab the toy 🙂 Having the 2nd toy in your hand might have distracted her so try one toy in view at a time as the focal point and the other toy can be in your pocket. This was a great setup and we can add more “boring” in later<<
After doing it I realized that the other toy was being too much of a distraction in the tight space we had available. Will wear a sweatshirt next time – no pockets in yoga pants – LOL!
Week 4 – Serp/Threadle Foundation
Tried this for the first time tonight. Also tried it with a toy as the reward and discovered I picked the wrong toy – it was too large to really hold in my hand and do the treat toss (don’t think her sit is solid enough yet for this).
I only have the session we did with the target in my left hand. Between we took a break while I looked for a better toy to use and when we restarted and did the reward at the target she was mouthing a lot, thought she was chewing the treat (or maybe random dog hair), but turns out she was losing a tooth. So we broke off and we played some tug and she actually lost two teeth. So decided we’ll try it again tomorrow.
Week 4 – Balance in motion
Beka has done some ladder work but probably not since the course started. So we did some with my pvc ladder flat and then added a little bit of height for the first time. It sags in the middle as it doesn’t have any supports there, couldn’t find the appropriate fitting at the time we made it 10+ years ago.
I might try a target plate at the end with a piece of kibble on it to get her to focus forward all the way through rather than start looking at me for the treat as she reaches the end. Unlike a certain auntie of hers who shall remain nameless, she has yet to try jumping through the ladder, and kibble should be a low enough value that it won’t get her doing that.
Question on Week 4 Beginning Start line. You mention you use ‘get it’ for a reward they get ahead of them. Do you have a separate word for a situation where you’ve tossed the toy back behind them (they can’t leave position) and THEN release them back to that toy?
I’ve always used ‘get it’ in both situations since I never (well, can’t think of a time) have two toys out available on the ground for a reward when working. If you do have a separate word for that situation, can you explain why?
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
Revisited a couple of things
Week 3 – Countermotion
This went better than the last time, only videod the left side as that seems/is more awkward for ME. I rewarded her from my hand off the target. However, I feel ‘stuck’ at the target until she touches it, I am not sure her value for touching it will override my movement away, especially as she keeps checking my hand, presummably for a treat.
Still need to due the rear cross option to try it out, tomorrow!
Week 3 – Decel Combo – Baby
I think this went better also on my part, re the decel.
Week 3 – Decel Combo – Adv
think this is better also.
Week 3 – Retrieve Games – end behaviour – tug
Had been doing a tiny bit of getting herr to tug with herr front feet on me, this is the first time with me standing.
Week 3 – retrieve games – bring me the toy
Ok, so I tried a few sessions of just tossing a toy (tried several) close and if she picked it up and brought it even an inch back to me and played with it. It bored her after even just one or two tries.
So, I tried adding more motion on my part to see if that was better for her. Did a couple that I didn’t video (hard in the hallway due to the corner), then I blocked a section to use and videod it. It seems to work a lot better for her to have me move away a fair bit and call her and she stays more engaged. I figure I can fade the motion over time so that I am standing still in the end.
Thanks
Lori
HI Tracy
>>For the next session, start her with a very comfortable first couple of hits, back track a lot so there are no surprises – put all the mats back in and maybe a couple of towels like you mentioned. Then after a little bit of play to gauge her comfort zone, take one out. Her success and confidence (and your session timer :)) will guide you about how quickly you can remove the stuff under the wobble board. And each session should start with whatever was really comfy from the previous session, rather than with anything that might surprise her.<<
Actually, that is pretty much what I was thinking. i’ve been able to start the next session with the next mat layer removed without a problem so far but this time is was, so will make the change mid stream in a session if she seems ok.
>>You were basically taking the toy an starting the send in what was practically one motion, so sometimes she did it and sometimes (like at 1:21) she was like, “wait, what?” So – tug tug tug, try to either tug her into position or have her follow your hand to line up, try not to physically move her into the line up. Then either do a moment of ready dance, or hold her collar for long enough to say “ready…” then send. That will be cleaner and will help her a lot.<<
Crap – doing that again! I didn’t even notice it on the videos. Will try to separate a lot better. I do know that the ‘ready dance’, even after some tug, doesn’t always seem to engage her very much. Haven’t quite figured out the situations when it seems less engaging to her yet (like just after eating or before a nap, etc). Seemed to work ok on the decel combo work in the basement.
>>I think she was waiting for the cookie to drop on it in order to go to the bag, so that might have inadvertently been keeping you closer than you wanted. So for now – don’t drop the cookie on it but also don’t add more distance yet – you can be very close, get her hitting it and also slowly moving away as she is moving towards it. Then if you want more value on the prop, you can toss the cookie back to it.<<
Ah, ok, will try that and get closer. I thought I was pretty close while doing it but I can see in the video that I am not really that close.
>>add a decel as soon as you finish the blind so it is blind/decel all at once, for now.<<
>>Both of you can start closer to where you want to end up on the other side of the room – hold her collar, toss the cookie all the way away and send her to the cookie from there so you have a nice long head start.<<OK, blind combined with decel for now, and cahnge the way we start so I have a better head start on everything – will try!
>>If the treat bounces away, just give her another one in that spot right away so she gets the reward and doesn’t worry about the wandering cookie LOL! Would little bits of cheese be less bouncy?<<
Will try to remember to do that. Everything seems to bounce on the play mats.
Thanks!
Lori
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This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by
