Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Omg!!! I almost had a heart attack reading this!!!!! KROME!!!! I am glad to hear he did NOT ruin the TV. Onwards to training!
TracyHi and welcome!
>> But I am wondering about whether I should be integrating the end position into the mountain and downhill games? I am hesitant to use the traditional way of treating at the end of the teeter because I don’t want to reintroduce the nose touch behavior we’ve been trying to eliminate.>>
I think adding end position too soon for these games might make it harder – for the mountain climbers, you can have the reward there already as you add the challenges, but I think having him in a down with the board that high might make it harder to get him safely off the board. For the downhill games, he can step off to whatever is propping the board, so that is less of an issue. Based on the videos here, I am not worried about the nose targeting because when I picture him doing the full teeter – he is going to have to lower his head and look downwards before (and in order to) get into the down position. So, I think it will be fine because the prop that elicits the down is helping with his foot placement and that lowered head will add to the weight shift. My guess is that he is going to want to look down then lie down on the uphill and downhill games, which is going to end up turning into kind of ‘sliding’ into the down at the top of the board, if that makes sense.
On the backing up video: stay lower for now when you are cuing it (you don’t need to stand up at all :)) and feed him lower so he is dropping his chin below his topline to eat. That is going to free up his hind end movement even more. When you were rewarding, his chin was high – so that was making his steps backwards shorter (less reach in the hind end, more push from the front). You can see it when you were standing, so you can stay nice and low for this game 🙂
He did really well with the position changes – you can do those in the middle of the board so it adds challenge with the movement 🙂On the target plank video:
We want him to watch you less and look at the end of the board more, so feed lower on this one too (or toss the treat back to him between his front feet. Also, don’t click 🙂 I think the click might be building in watching us on these games, so I tend to not click in favor or either tossing the reward back, rewarding out ahead, or having the reward ‘pre-placed’ 🙂 on some of the games.
Watching this video – when he was doing a bit of a nose touch, he was going to the end of the plank, looking down, then dropping back into the down. When I visualize it across a full sized teeter… I think it is going to work in your favor to have him looking ahead and down rather than up or at you – so as long as he gets into the down quickly, I think he is fine to look downwards here and it will help the down. On the full teeter, he will probably get to the top, look down and drop into the down by the time the board is parallel to the ground – standing a bit longer can help him control the tip and whip of the board, so if he is arriving in the down as the board is arriving at the ground – perfect! Let me know if that makes sense – it is a clear picture in my caffeinated brain but not so sure it is clear in writing hahaha!
On this game – you can take it into the bang game introductory phase, where he is leaping on and into position from the side. And adjunct game for dogs doing the down position: using a cot or bed or something – have him jump on from the side and very close, and lie down – that can help prime the pump for the crazy bang game stuff coming up 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I agree that she does better in the sit than from the cookie toss – I think the sit gives you both a moment to think about what is happening so your cues look good and she can process it really well. Plus, you can build in lots of stay rewards in front of the jump so she gets a ton of start line stay practice. Eventually you can be doing this from a wing or tunnel but for now, I like the sit the best for her 🙂She did really well when she was turning to her left (left then right to the MM) to come in over the bump in the first part of the video and on the harder angle at the very end… but it was harder for her (on the slice angle) to come in towards her right (right then left to the MM). That is good to know! So when she is going left-then-right (on your right arm) you can add those harder angles and more motion.
On the harder side, though – when she is on your left arm and moving right-then-left: keep things slower in your movement and also you can angle he jump so the bar is facing her a little – that will make it easier to come in over it. It is totally normal that the pups show us a hard side and an easy side, so you can make the easy side harder, while making the hard side easier by going slowly and angling the jump.Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is looking good too.
The first rep was pretty much what I was suggesting above about the motion – you moved and then showed arm and then released – it was great! She went past the jump rather than going over the bump, but that was more of a young dog thing than a handling error. You can change the position of the MM so it is on a more obvious line past the bump to encourage her to go away to it.
The rest looked good especially the last rep – yes, ideally you want for her to turn her head away before clicking the MM. I *think* she will look at the bar? But changing the angle of the MM will help that too so you can keep moving and you won’t need to step to the bar at all. And also yes, have the MM remote in your hand so you don’t have to reach for it – that will make it easier when you get up to running 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning! My internet works again, yay!!
This session ended up going really well! I think the game works best when you start from a stay – when you were using the cookie throws at the beginning, she was trying to offer behavior so fast that she didn’t see the threadle, she only saw the motion. I am glad you recognized that and went to the stay! That was so much smoother. Yes, she is looking at the MM a little bit in the beginning but then she remembered to ignore it in order to earn it haha!!! Good girl. And I agree, it went better when you added the verbal with the stay.
I think one more thing will make it even easier to add more motion: rather than release & move & show the arm cue all at once, see if you can show the arm cue, then slowly start to move… then release. That way she sees it all before she moves and that can allow you to add even more motion. And keep rewarding all the stays as you add more motion – the rewards looked great and her stay behavior is looking really good!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! We’ve got storms here today so I can’t get the videos to play 🙁 sorry! I will try tonight. Living out in the country is hard because the internet connections are so bad:(
Hi! This is going well too! She didn’t seem to have any trouble with the motion.
>> I notice I did kind of stop to bring her in sometimes. >
Yes – you can fade out the stopping or helping with arm movement – I think one thing that will help you add more motion without stopping is if you have your serp arm back already, before you start to move around the jump – rather than getting to where you want to be then trying to get the serp arm back. yes, starting with the arm back will feel SUPER weird haha but then all you need to do is walk and release, she will already see the arm and upper body position. And also if your arm is already in position, you won’t have to pull it back as you cue the serp – that is more of a threadle move.
This game is also good stay practice – you can walk all the way around the jump with your arm back, but DON’T release – instead, go back to her and deliver a pizza reward 🙂
Great job!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Really good session here, introducing the verbal.
You had all the elements in there:
Good stay rewards mixed in
Your check verbal was very clear
You added more difficult angles
And lots of good tugging in between reps! She is still a little obsessed with the MM but that is normal hahah – It is a magical cookie dispenser 🙂
There were only 2 reps of oopsies (1:32 and 3:23) where she started to come to the threadle side of the jump but then ended up going around the jump to the MM – it looked like you were a little too close there and when she got to you, you turned your shoulder a bit forward – so she went back around. But all the other reps where great, so remember to give her a little more room and not turn your shoulders forward.Speaking of shoulders – a question: which is your preferred threadle arm: do you use the dog side arm like here, or the opposite arm? (I use both, depending on the situation) – so you can add the opposite arm now if you use it. And for the dog-side arm, you can add in swinging it back (a lot of folks do that with the dog-side arm) as long as you keep it swung back til she has the jump.
You can also add in motion, slowly walking through the threadles. You started to mix in serps and threadles at the end, and that is great! She was surprised by the first one, but then remembered 🙂 You can totally go back and forth with serps and threadles in the same session, and your position and verbal will help her see the difference.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>>That’s also a good point about Chapter not getting upset with the late info-
We need to help teach them to look for obstacles and keep finding lines, for those moments when we are imperfect 🙂 Because these dogs will see a LOT of imperfect and handler errors in their careers haha! So if we teach them different default behaviors (like finding lines, and also that handler errors are followed by rewards) then they will be much happier to put up with our errors 🙂
>> We normally train at night because there are less distractions so I was happy with his focus during the daytime.
I think he did a great job here in broad daylight! Yay!!!
Looking at the video:
In general, the sends are going well. The first 3 were a good combination of patience and leaving and connection 🙂 He committed nicely! On the last one, I think you were leaving for the next line one step earlier than on the other reps, he was not quite convinced to go to the pinwheel jump so he pulled off. That was not incorrect handling; it juts shows us where he is in his understanding. So you can build even more send understanding by moving the middle jump in a few feet closer and still trying to leave earlier, then throwing the reward for the send (as you keep moving, always keep moving :))>>Are those turns wide because I’m late or do I need to look back to get connection more?
I think this is more of a dog training moment than a handling moment. Yes, we handlers can always connect more but as you are running for the blind cross, you do have to disconnect at some point 🙂 What he was doing was drifting out wide and waiting to see the finished blind cross before committing to come in for the jump before the tunnel.
At :07 the toy throw brought him in, at :22 you finished the blind nice and early so he came in. At :36, he was already outside the wing of the jump before you finished the blind, so he bypassed it. It is a combination of young dog commitment understanding and border collie flanking 🙂 Also, in terms of handling – you don’t need to run towards the landing spot of the jump to get on the line for the BC, you can be running directly towards the tunnel entry you want and get on the line further up/closer to the tunnel. By trying to get closer to the landing spot (between the uprights of the jump, it pressures the line out so he goes wider.But the main thing is that he was not driving towards that jump to begin with, so that is what I suggest you focus on. Don’t worry about the blind cross, those look good! You do them really well, he reads them really well. But they rely on commitment – so just send to the pinwheel jump and leave laterally, as if you are running towards the BC… and with some connection and call his name. Don’t do the blind – just run up the line. When he chooses to come in and take the jump – then throw the reward 🙂 If he can’t do it when you run, dial back your speed as much as needed (walk or jog) so he can find the line. It is a really common young dog error when we add running, so I am confident he will figure it out really quickly. And then you won’t have to worry as much about timing, because he is committing to the jump anyway 🙂
Great job here! Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
Hi! He was a good boy figuring out to stay on the wobble board in the face of the hot dog lure temptation 🙂 I think doing it with a 2o2o position will benefit you more in the long run (that is his teeter end position, right?) so you can see him resisting the temptation. I don’t think we will see as much of a weight shift back when presented with the food lure as we would see with tugging, but the concept is the same: stay on the board 🙂
Here is a stretching/weight shift game to play, based on some fitness exercises: my rehab vet has us do a lured/extended hind end iliopsoas/sartorius stretch that looks similar to what he was doing at the end when he was stretching forward off the board while keeping his back feet on. You can maintain that by encouraging him to lick the lure…. then when you ‘cover’ the lure, he can then shift his weight back (he never leaves 2o2o, just stretches). I use a peanut butter jar (well, it is plastic, but you get the idea LOL!) – I let the dog lick lick lick as I draw them into the stretch. Then when I tip the jar up to stop the licking, they lean back into position – so I get the stretch and the weight shift.I know if has nothing to do with teeter training but it is an excellent stretch/conditioning thing! His session here reminded me of that 🙂 so I figured I would pass it along. And the weight shift engages the hamstrings and core, which is also great. These puppers are old enough now that we can dive into more fitness stuff.
>>And yes – I was referring to that shoulder injury inducing 1 jump exercise. I’ll work on tossing the toy sooner at a lower height to see if he gets more comfortable at extending on the mats and I’ll keep his jumps no higher than 8in in class for a while.>>
I think that is also supposed to create better turns, which we don’t really need from him right now – it is more about getting him to explode up a line. I think he is at the age where he is thinking his way through the questions and then when he is comfortable with the answers… BOOM! Full on speed. So for now we keep the speed lines easy and fun 🙂 Some dogs flip that switch at around 18 months, some dogs 2 years old, etc. My Voodoo flipped the switch at around 2.5 years old – went from medium speed and thoughtful to “GET OUTTA THE WAY LADY I GOT THIS NOW WE GO FAST” haha! Contraband is 16 months old and not close to the switch flipping yet (which is fine, I am not ready for more speed LOL!) I think Kaladin is very similar to Voodoo *except* he uses his body soooo much better than Voodoo does/did.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Looking at both of the threadle videos, she is doing really well! I think she is really getting the concept of in-then-out, and that is the most important part. Yay!!!
She is definitely ready for you to add the threadle verbal here, so use it instead of the release word. And if that goes well (I am sure it will!) then you can add in more angles. She did well with the angles you presented here (especially on the 2nd video) but you can add in slightly harder ones too 🙂
I think the hardest part for her was when you wanted her to line and and sit 🙂 All of the reward was coming from the MM, so you can help her line up with a cookie for sitting (Pizza!) and that will help. She wanted to move from the stay when you put the target hand in position, so you can toss a reward back for those stays too, but that is not important as the rewards for getting her into the sit. She did a great job when you tossed the cookie away rather than asked her to sit, so you can totally keep mixing that in.The only other detail is that, like with the serpentines, you can fade out the target in your hand and you can point your feet to the MM more. That feels super weird standing still, but I think it will be much easier when you add motion. If she can be highly success like she was here for another session with some angles added, then definitely add in motion with you moving very slowly 🙂
Have fun! Great job here!!!
TracyHi! It was gorgeous yesterday, with another gorgeous day coming today! YAY!!!! I am excited for no more snow and ice. Sorry about the mud though – ewwwww!!!
He is doing well with his teeter work! I am looking forward to the official start of teeter class!! There were some things that went REALLY well and there are some things here that I am totally going to bug you about LOL!
At the beginning – bang game: he is REALLY showing some excitement and enthusiasm for the bang game and doing a great job with the targeting! This is great!!!! During your sessions, 2 things to remember:
– be ready to reward offered behavior near the board (and if you are not ready, have him wait for you on a mat or hold him or just reward if he catches you by surprise). During the bang game session, he offered a ton of great leaping on and you were not ready, so you did not reward… which is, in effect, a punishment. Since we are not asking for stimulus control yet, not being ready/withholding reinforcement reduces the rate of success. We want him to be somewhere around 95% for these games and he was working the bang game session at about 60% (yes, I counted, I have had a LOT of coffee hahaha). The rate of success is not just based off of behavior we cue, it is based on everything that happens in the session. Stimulus control will happen later on down the road but he offered some great behavior as you were getting ready… reward it (and then hold him or ask for a stay on a bed or something til you are ready). The overall effect on training will be cumulative and progress will be faster 🙂
– turn up the heat on your challenges much more slowly rather than change it on each rep or add a lot of motion. Bearing in mind that he was not totally confident on the teeter, turning up the heat slowly will help protect that high rate of success. We will turn up the heat on challenges away from the teeter first (where we don’t need to protect confidence as much) and then it becomes wicked easy to add to the teeter.I am obsessed with protecting high rates of success 🙂 (as a side note: when training stuff where this is no confidence issue to work through, the high rate of success is important but not critical. When building confidence, high rate of success is the most important thing).
On the back and forth games – he is doing really well especially on the downhill elements! He was also happy to recall back to you across the board. Yay!! I really loved what he was doing when there was minimal tip – running straight through the tip to the end. Nice!
As with the bang game, resist the temptation to turn up the heat too quickly – the change in tip of the board made it a lot harder for him. As there was more tip, he is not weight shifting back into his read when there is a lot of tip downhill – he was forward on his shoulders. That was probably uncomfortable so he compensated by slowing down across the board and was looking for the tip more and more (he weight shifts in the tip, but he is slowing himself down to find it).
So for now, keep the tip very minimal – we will gradually increase it inch by inch. Separately, you can work on the weight shift while a board is moving under him, first by tugging on the wobble board and then using the tug toy as a reward on the bang game (in position). Have you played with the “Pull You Off” game on the wobble board? That also makes for a great weight shift 🙂 The weight shift will start to come more naturally when we add in more target position as well as more tip in very incremental tiny bits, like boiling a frog: he won’t even notice LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I am sorry to hear that you still have snow 🙁 Spring is coming – we had 60 degree weather here today, and I am sure the warmth is creeping north!
The Out And About class sounds great – this generation of pups will need all they help we can give them when life goes back to normal-ish, hopefully soon!!!!
She is having so much fun with this tunnel game!!! You can totally train your tunnel threadles without ever having to leave the house LOL! I bet you can even sit on the couch and do it. The look on her face was cracking me up: she is VERY SERIOUS about this game and about getting her toys LOL!!! So fun!
>>Keiko does think I’m strange, but I have a feeling she thought that before this exercise anyway.>>
Ha! Yes, I bet all of our pups think this at some point, but thankfully they forgive our strangeness and keep playing with us 🙂
Stay warm! I hope to see you back outside soon!
Tracy
