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Good morning!
Oh yeah, the timing and obstacle name for the tunnel made a big difference!
Your timing was also earlier – on most of the reps, you were already cuing the next thing as he landed or even before landing (from the first jump after the wing wrap. Nice! My Mantra for verbals is: early and often!
Speaking of ‘often’: One thing to bear in mind is that when body language does not support the verbal cue, you will need to keep yelling the verbal 🙂 That is what happened at :54 – your body language was leaving way up the line, fully turned (correctly). You said “go tunnel” twice then got quiet as he took off for the red jump… so the quiet attracted his attention and put him into handler focus, so he did not take the tunnel.
At 1:10 you said it again when he landed from the red so he took the tunnel, and also at 1:25 when you were fully pulling away. And at 1:49 (last rep) you were MILES away (yay!) and said tunnel one more time after he had landed from the red jump: perfect!Wow! Super gamblers run!!!! It looks like there was a thing-after-the-tunnel-under-a-contact challenge and lots of verbal cues to stay on the line after a tunnel. Was there layering too? He looked fast, focused and happy!!!!!!
Well done!!!
TracyHi there!
Ah, the joys of obsessing on verbals haha!!
>> A few weeks ago I was sure I definitely wanted to add a new threadle verbal and it was going to be “In In”, but then it was pointed out to me that this sounds just like “Ann Ann” … so it’s back to the drawing board.
I just jogged around yelling ANN ANN and INININ and they sound different enough that it might be perfectly fine 🙂 The mouth is positioned differently and the sound is produced differently, so she is probably going to differentiate with no issues 🙂 (Yes, I am a dork haha)
>> I just took a look at the verbals list from CAMP and I think I might go with “Close”. Do you still like “Close” as a jump threadle verbal?
Yes, I still like Close as my threadle slice verbal on jumps. For threadle wraps, I say in in but you can say something else. What are your wrap verbals? There are many possibilities and the threadle wrap verbal is a lower priority than threadle slice, at the moment.
>>If so, should I use the same opening backside jump sequence to teach it to Annie or should I set up a couple jumps side by side like an actual threadle?
Yes, and yes haha! I would show her both – I think the opening backside sequence is easier because the front side (wrong side) of the jump is less obvious. But she also needs to see it on the traditional looking setup. So a little of both! Start it on just one jump, with her coming in from different angles, then you can add the jump before it. Let me know if that makes sense!
Have fun!
TracyHi!
>>although there was some great tunnel “go” opportunities at class this week and both Presto and Sole FLEW straight out and over two jumps after a straight tunnel with a “go” “go” and my driving motion – so some of your feedback from the last post was put into action. Nikko didn’t get to play.
YAY for Presto and Sole driving so nicely! Are you watching the Cynosport maps? Tunnel exits as a BIG THING this year LOL! And I am sure Nikko forgives you for not playing (maybe not, though haha)
>>Today I did the tunnel/jump discrimination. I was a touch lazy and just pulled out my short tunnel. There were probably multiple factors at play (like my body position), but I do think my using the short tunnel to work on exits the other day and NOT first cuing tunnel when I did that drill may have had a little bleed over here. So, in my next session, I may pull out the full size tunnel.
The short tunnel is fine here! Any questions from the dogs had more to do with body position than the short tunnel.
>>Anyhow, Presto’s brain was pretty dysfunctional. Early on in the session our neighbor walked by with his male Golden, and so he was a little puffed up (he thinks he is THE man). So, I edited out for time some of the additional work I did on the wing reminding him that words mean things 😉 He has been doing plenty of sends to wraps recently as part of DW training, so I was a little surprised that he suddenly started wrapping the wrong way (which Sole did too). Maybe that was their reaction to feeling the pressure of the tunnel and being uncertain? Anyhow, as soon as we had some success, I called it a day with Presto.>>
The wrapping the wrong way might have been avoiding the pressure of the tunnel indeed! Or offering wraps to the stronger side (is he a lefty? I can’t remember). But overall, for Presto this session was basically pure verbal and no motion help, so it was really difficult – too difficult, he was working at approx 66% rate of success which is too low. So, you can add the wing before it to be able to use a little motion. to help: as he is rounding the wing, start the verbal then give him a step to the wing or tunnel. And you can give reset cookies to line him back up if he has a miss or error – the reset cookies help keep the overall rate of success high.
>Nikko and Sole did much better (although I needed the wing a little further away from the tunnel for Sole). In rewatching the video, I was also a lot more aware of my body position and the dogs head position. I thought I was paying attention to that while doing the exercise, but clearly not consistently. However, I was pretty pleased with the two of them at this first step.>>
Yes, they both did really well! They have a lot more experience with the cues, so it was easier for them to do it without a lot of physical help. Yay! You can add the wing wrap in before this as well, so they can see more motion and that can add challenge too!
I think all 3 dogs can also play this using the jump rather than the wing, and also the angled jump. That can keep things looking different and spicy – if you repeat the same thing, it is possible that al 3 of thm offer different behavior because there is repetition. Even with a lot of reinforcement, many dogs start to offer different things if we repeat the same setup too much 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This went really well too, we are able to learn more about his timing needs here!
A general note – I think you can start his GO GO GO Tunnel verbal sooner, to name the whole line – that will help propel him away more and will also make the turn to the right very different in timing and sound. I think you can start it as he is jumping jump #1 (after the wing wrap).
So with sequence 1 – start your GO sooner for the whole line and start peeling away – see if the verbal go tunnel can override your shoulder turn (this is a very useful skill 🙂 You were pretty much doing this at :25 and :33 and it worked really well, he was great! But keep using the tunnel verbal and not just go, to really keep things clear.
A little blooper – Turning to his right around the wing at :37 set up a backside on the jump, which messed up the timing of the right cue – so the bar came down.
You were a little late at :44 – you were setting up the handling and didn’t say go til he approached the red jump, so be sure to start it as he is approaching that first jump so he leaves you to get on the line and you don’t have to worry about handling 🙂Nice job on the first rep of the full sequence! It looked great!
2nd rep allows us to look at some timing: your right verbal was a little late at 1:14, he had already made a commitment decision. You did it a stride earlier with a strong physical cue at 1:22, so worked much better for him to get the turn. You can start the right turn cues as soon as he has landed from that first jump – as soon as you see his front feet hit the ground, you can deliver the next cue so he has time to process it before making the decision.
And same with the go cue at 1:26, he was already approaching the red jump. The Go verbal is different as it can be used to name an entire line (with the tunnel tacked on so he knows what to look for when driving ahead). The left and right directionals can’t be quite as early because they indicate the jump not the line, but they can start when he has landed from the previous jump.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well here! Great job showing him both, you ran a great line for the right turn to the jumps too! A couple of ideas for you:
>>In the last 2 clip, I also found that i needed to stop for an instant while Nuptse committed to the tunnel.
Rather than stop, try to keep moving even if it is at a walk. We don’t want him to get used to seeing you stop on course, he is just too speedy for that.
Another way to not have to stop and wait for commitment: when setting up for layering, you can stick closer to the previous line so you don’t get as far ahead and run out of room to run.One more thought to help with commitment:
You were using GO on the last couple of reps – keep the tunnel verbal in there as well. as Go could apply to either jumps or tunnels – so a Go Tunnel will help solidify the commitment.Nice work! Onwards to the sequences 🙂
Tracy
Hi! This was a good session!
He was so funny with the tunnel here – the jump was the juicy one for him for whatever reason, so it took a bit to get re-focused on the tunnel. His facial expression was priceless as he was trying to figure it out and would check back in with you 🙂 Good boy! He did really well here – my only suggestion is to hold his collar so he can hear the cue a couple of times before you let him make a decision by letting go of the collar.
You can totally angle the jump now, and add in the motion from the wing wrap before it too, cuing the jump or tunnel as he is exiting the wing wrap. That adds some more excitement!>> I think we need to take a break from these brain exercises for a couple of days and back to something where he gets to run!
Yes! You can do the distance games and also the layering games – lots of giddy up there!
>> Really enjoying this class….seems pretty timely looking at the Cynosport courses!
Glad you are liking it! And yes, Cynosport is making a great case for these skills. SO MANY PLACES where these skills need to be trained or things will go wrong. I see all of the week 1 and 2 skills so far, and today’s courses added some of the week 3 skills too LOL!!! Thanks, Cynosport 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi! Yep, you found a bunch of the challenges!
For the High Octance Masters Jumping,
I would handle 1-3 dog on right then BC on the landing side of 3 to get 4 on my leftBC 11-12, push to 13, BC 13-14
17-18-19: layer 2 using the tunnel verbal. I *might be able to get a BC 18-19 but I ight not be able to clear the line there, so a threadle/rear cross might work best 18-19-20.
So.Many.Skills.
And watching the Cynosport maps roll in this week… those courses are making the case for these skills, they have all the things we have been working on and the things that are coming in week 3 as well haha!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
I think ball throwing really helped him have fun – it was basically a game of ball with some obstacles thrown in 🙂
One suggestion: Be careful of foot placement to make sure your feet/motion/position match the verbal, for now – the errors at :41 and :55 had to do with your feet/slight motion being paired with foot placement that suggested something else, so he took the line your feet suggested. As he gets the verbals solidified, your feet won’t be as important but for now, try to match thm up with the verbals.He had a little trouble with the wing wraps to the backside or tunnel or front side – you can totally use your physical cues to help – motion to the tunnel, motion to the backside, motion to the front, even one step or being on the other side of the wing for the front side. It seemed a little easier when the jump was angled – his only question there was at 2:27 – but I think he was right. You sent him around the wing and said jump, and so he took the line he was on – I think you were cuing the other side there, which would be a threadle cue. You got it on the next rep by sending him around the other side of the wing so the jump was the line he was facing. Yay!
You can take this still to the layering game now – it is more like a sequence and less like a drill, and also has a discrimination element to it. Great job here! Have fun!
Tracy
Good morning!
Good morning!
>>It has seemed to me that that is “cheating”.
I don’t consider it cheating 🙂 I think of it as more informational (is that a word? LOL!) This is especially true now that threadles are showing up in different configurations.
>> As my dog approaches the first jump where an “S” shaped effort is required, I give my threadle cue. That is supposed to communicate the whole thing:
– Jump in collection
– Come through the gap
– Take the threadle jump.>>In theory, yes… but the issues that I have seen have to do with the “jump in collection” part of it. The threadle cue alone does not indicate the most important part of that: How much collection, exactly? Back when threadles were only in the 180 configuration and when I could be ahead and even rotate my feet, a threadle cue alone kinda worked. Not great, but I got through. Then my Voodoo started asking the very important question of “how much collection on the first jump, hooooman??” and he got really frustrated when I didn’t provide the info and when I tried to keep moving through the threadle without foot rotation. Problem solved with the turn cue on the jump before the threadle.
So it comes down to how you define what the threadle verbal means. For my dogs, I have defined it to mean “take the inside (backside) of the jump, between me and the jump” and it is my responsibility to also tell them how to turn to be able to see the jump I am indicating.
>>The wrap cue means we are going to take that jump and change directions 180 degrees. I will need to think about it.
Correct – and in the ‘flat’ 180 threadles, that is the behavior the dog is doing – coming back across the plane of the wing to be able to face the threadle side of the next jump – it requires the same collection on the first jump as a wrap. And when I want the threadle, I begin that cue when I see the collection. If I don’t want the threadle, I give the dog a different cue. And if the threadle line does not come in from a traditional line, I don’t use the wrap verbal (because that first jump is a not wrap :))
>>I distinctly remember a recent discussion about a threadle in an AKC premier course. Someone asked how I was going to cue it. My response was something like: “I am going to lie to my dog and tell him to wrap the first jump, once he processes that, I will give my threadle cue.”
. >>Ha! If that is a lie, then my dogs want me to keep the lie going LOL!!! I don’t consider it mixed information – it is an indication of how much collection I want on jump 1, then the threadle cue indicates which side and which exit of jump 2. And if the line does not require a wrap or a ton of collection to get to the correct side, then I will use a cue that matches the collection I want.
>>Your threadle cue is not used to predict an “S” shaped jumping effort but an “other side of the jump”
Correct – S shaped is too general nowadays. My threadle cue does not name a line (because the line can be different each time in terms of collections needed), my threadle cue indicates which side of that jump to take and how to exit it.
>>I’ve probably already told you my instructor’s force front story. I asked her when she uses threadle handling and when she uses the forced front. She answered that, as soon as she teaches her dog the threadle, she stops using the forced front. Makes sense to me.>>
Yes! The threadle has turned out to be a much faster ‘move’. I use the forced fronts for dogs that need more impulsion up the line (because they are faster when we are turned away from them and the rotation will fling them a bit more LOL!) and for dogs that don’t understand the threadle. But for dogs with a lot of speed off the start line and understand threadles? The threadle will work better indeed.
>>I did get a kick out of the “automatic” threadle. He was in desperate need of a balance rep! Took a couple of tries to get him back to paying attention!>>
Ha! That is a common thing that I have seen too: once they get into threadle mode, they want to threadle ALL.THE.THINGS lol!!! And he did see a bit of a closed shoulder a la FFC on the release at :48. Your ‘seriously’ cracked me up though LOL! 1:15 was all on him threadling all the things 🙂 so you can balance more frequently in a session.
He was great on the forced fronts and had no trouble when you moved away to be closer to 3.
Same with the the threadles, easy for him. One thing to add to the threadles is to let him find his jump without you stepping to it or using an arm cue – hold threadle position until his head turns to look around the backside wing, then you can just leave for your next position or handling. This will make your running line even more efficient
For example at 1:55, you step towards jump #2 to indicate it but you don’t need to – the threadle indicates it – so you can move up the line sooner, as soon as he commits to the backside.The discrimination went well and I think it was a perfectly good challenge to show the utnnel first – he was pretty perfect after that first error even when you turned it into a sequence at the end. That first error speaks to state of arousal, perhaps – the tunnel as the first rep was sitmulating, so the 2nd rep was more true-to-life for how he might be feeling in a trial environment. So…. do the same thing in the next session, start with the tunnel then do the threadle on the 2nd rep 🙂 Be really demanding on that 2nd rep, though – repeat the cue and shake your hand to help him “see” it 🙂
The layering did go really well! The part that you worked on was more about the right turn and less about the layering skills. At :53, you gave him his right verbal and an outside at as he landed from the first jump and that really produced the nicest turn.
At 1:26 your verbal timing was great and you were in a more lateral position (also good!) but you didn’t use your outside arm until he landed – I think the arm as a ‘brake’ at the same timing as the verbals here would be the most effective, even if you are pretty far away from the right turn jump.
All the layering went really well, and he also did well responding to turn cues or Go cues on the tunnel exits! Yay!
To add more challenge, replace the tunnel with weaves here and in the backside-at-2 setup. And also replace the tunnel with a jump, which might turn out to be the most difficult!Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyYep, straight tunnels aka puppy blasters – they are all the rage in USDAA and UKI. Not quite as common in AKC, but they are starting to arrive on the scene there too! SUPER fun to have straight tunnels, provided we can handle before and after them 🙂
>>It’s interesting to watch how many good handlers don’t use a cue at the entrance to the tunnel then just ‘man’ their way through with speed at the end. I’m guessing as time goes on they’ll all learn the trick of the early cue, but right now it’s a great advantage to know to do it when they don’t.>>
I live by the timely cues – otherwise I get a big crash and burn when I am late late late LOL!
T
Wow, what a great run! I loved the cheering!!! Thanks for posting it!
The trends I see here are:
– backside on 2
– yes, threadle off the teeter
– and a BIG layering possibility from that threadle all the way to the dog walk and also 18! You were able to get in there nicely with Potter but I want to get the youngsters to understand layering, so we have it ready 🙂Tracy
Good morning!
Oh crud, that fenced area is your agility ring?? Oh no! We can adjust the setups to use the area you have available.The go go go looked like Spot was in his happy place, even from the highly angled entries. And he gets a gold start for that very first left – it was nice and tight even after all of those go go go reps!
For the wraps – the verbals were good but I think to truly get more wrap you will also need to show rotation on the tunnel entry, so let him see you decelerate and front cross or spin as he is approaching the tunnel (along with the verbals).
The cheese-throwing section went well – the first GO was not as good but I think he was trying to find the cheese, plus cheese is calmer than ball throws so his overall arousal was lower. Left/right looked good!
And you did the blinds correctly – send and hustle across the exit, His sends were super strong so that gave you plenty of time to do the blinds.
The FCs were well-timed, but ideally your running line would stay on the same side of the tunnel you started on and run back that direction – but in this case, that would have you running into the brush so it is fine that you moved across the face of the tunnel 🙂 I think in general you will find the blinds easier anyway, unless you are sending from a decelerated position or from a stationary position.Great job here! I think you have room to add a jump or wing to this, to build into the distance skills! And you can squish up the tunnel and start the discrimination work.
Have fun!
TracyHi!
She has the foundation for the forced fronts so I am not surprised that she picked it up so quickly. She did really well here! All of the forced front looked really strong. You held position a bit longer just to make sure she came to the correct side at first, but then at :16 you started turning sooner and she had no problems.The last rep was a threadle, she did well on that too! My only suggestion there is to have your lower body turned to the bar (feet facing the landing spot) before you release her, that way you won’t have to rotate and she will get an even tighter turn.
She had no trouble finding 3 on these (I am not surprised LOL!) So you can start to move the threadle and the forced front away from the #2 jump, seeing if you can move your position further up the line while also getting a great turn. And if that goes well? Go back to standing close to jump 2 and add in the tunnel discrimination. Wheeee!
And since the jump-tunnel discriminations are going well, you can move to the layering game from week 2.
Great job on these! She is moving through these really well!
TracyGood morning!
This went really well – she appeared to have no questions. The main goal is that the dogs can find the jump when asked for it, or the tunnel when asked for it rather than locking onto one or the other. It appears that she totally has it! Yay! So, on to the next games.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
The go and turn cues on the tunnel (first video) looked really good, she drove ahead very nicely to the teeter and also turned really well when you asked for it.
I looked at the slip in slow motion and it looks like just a slip, probably because she was multi-tasking and didn’t quite get herself organized to take off for full height.On the discrimination video:
>> It was hard to know when to release her because she would look at me whenever I would start saying the obstacle name.
Some dogs don’t focus forward (my blue merle dog doesn’t really focus forward) so you can releae when they start to pull or you feel muscle tension – that generally indicates a decision. Then we hope for the best LOL!!
She did well here! I think she is really reading your foot placement: all of the correct responses had great foot placement from you and the errors had a foot that was pointing ever-so-slightly to the wrong obstacle (she is subtle! LOL!) and also try to delay the ball toss – I think she went back to the tunnel even when it totally looked like she was going to the jump at about :31, because the outside arm was throwing the toy which could have read as a ‘get out’ type of cue to the tunnel. So you have permission to be a little late with the toy throws 🙂
So for the next session or two, be really aware of your feet so that the verbals solidify and match the feet. Then, you can add more motion that will make the feet less perfect – to challenge her to process the verbals rather than require perfect feet 🙂Backsides at 2:
>>She took a curvy s-shaped path on the first rep and on the balance rep. On the first 2 reps, I also led out from different sides of jump #1 since I saw you do that on the demo. Do you think one way or the other might give Annie a hint at which side of #2 I want before I get there? >>The most important thing is to line her up in the stay on an angle at 1, so she is facing the backside at 2 and not the front side. On that first rep, based on her stay spot, I thought you were going to the other side of 2 (and that is where you led out to as well) – so she was facing the front side of 2 and that is why she asked the question about where to go on the release.
Skipping around a bit, looking at the forced fronts:
Her stay spot on the 2nd rep was a little better and she read the line better. She did have a question – and it was because you were moving. On the forced front cross, after the release, it is important to be completely stationary until the dog has reached the commitment plane. You were moving a bit, stepping back a little – and she was wondering if that meant take the front or come to the back. She came to the back when you stopped moving (and on the 1st rep too) . You were very stationary on the 4th rep and she seemed to have no questions about where to drive to. Yay!
On the last rep, you had her stay spot more in the center of the bar of #1, so she had a much straighter line. You were moving forward on that, which did draw her to the backside but it also took her longer to read the turn back to 2 (I am timing each rep so we know what works best for her :))On the 3rd rep – threadle – you can also move her stay spot over to the other side of the #1 jump. She is looking directly at the front of 2 here, so you’ll get a better line if you have her stay on the side of the jump where the 7 number is.
She definitely liked the threadle – it was the fastest rep 🙂 To get it even smoother, you can rotate your lower body so your feet are facing the bar more (toes pointing to the landing spot) and then it will be even faster and easier for you, Your feet were in a better position at :42 (I think she broke her stay on that one) but you were further from the wing, so it was not as fast as the previous threadle where you were closer to the wing.On the balance rep, she had a curvy line there because your left shoulder was very open like a threadle, and since she had just done some threadles and backsides, she was likely asking if that was what you wanted 🙂
It was a little hard to hear the verbal you were using – that might have bee because you were being quiet haha! You can add in your threadle verbal on these, she is doing really well so you can totally put the verbal in too.
>> Before I start leading out I usually whisper to her “it’s gonna be a push, ok”. Who knows whether this means anything to her, but I’ve had good luck with it so I wouldn’t dare stop doing it now, lol.
I always tell my dogs what it is, and I also tell student dogs what it about to happen. Does it help? I don’t know, but the dogs do well, I am more focused and it definitely doesn’t hurt, so I highly recommend continuing to do it 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
