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Hi! Yes, that ‘turn away’ skill is getting really popular- both at the weave exit as you have here, but on jumps and also using it to set up big layers so you can be waaaaaay ahead on course. There is a lot the dog needs to understand here, particularly that he is allowed to turn away on a very limited cue from us humans.
The good news is that the specifics on how to train and handle it in various scenarios will be posted on Tuesday 🙂
So until then, you can play with having the dogs at your side and turn them away with a hand cue – I use both hands together, mainly emphasizing the outside arm to ‘grab’ attention then turn away. That is the first step towards getting this really well on course 🙂
Stay tuned for more!Tracy
Good morning!
He was a real superstar – never even looked at the tunnel. Yay! Your positioning was correct relative to the jumps, which totally helped him never look at the tunnel.
One little suggestion with the threadle: try to get your feet facing the bar more so then you can just step out of it rather than rotating towards the jump rather than turning towards the jump like you would with the FFC. The glory of the threadle is that he can leave you to take the jump without you needing to step towards it – you will eventually be able to just leave for the next position as soon as he commits to the jump.You can see it clearly at :28 – perfect upper body, so rotate your lower body so your feet are pointing more towards the a-frame and not towards the dog or tunnel.
You were pretty far away on that rep and on the following one on the other side… he was great!For some reason he took the front at :53 – it is possible that he was set up facing the front of 2 and saw you between the uprights, so took the front.
It looks like he came in at a better angle at 1:02 and I love how he turned to take the jump nice and tight around the wing without needing extra help! Good boy!!! Same on the last 2 reps on the other side he was very independent, which is what we want!His independence here bodes well for you being able to get waaaay up the line! Great job getting this going!
Tracy
Hi!
This is going well too – very challenging, but going well. As with the right side work, try not to be ahead of him – try to stick closer to the wing to start it so he exits the tunnel ahead of you.The GO started off well! The 2nd rep, with the jump cue, the volume and energy of the cue made it harder for him to discriminate. But on the 3rd rep, it sounded really different so he was able to get it really nicely. Having it sound different really helps him.
You can also spread the jumps out more, so he has more processing time – the go jump is very close so if he doesn’t process the left in time, he goes straight – especially if he just had a go rep with a ball throw, like at :44 – he was going straight for the ball throw 🙂 He was better on next rep – you also turned to help, which is good and can also be done at a distance. You can use physical cues too especially when you are far away.
The left cue at 1:03 was early (he is processing it as the tunnel exit) – so from what we can tell from these last 2 sessions, if he hears the left or right before he exits the tunnel, he applies it to the tunnel. So you can maintain the jump cue and then add the left or right after he exits. That will work nicely, especially when the jumps are 18-20 feet away.
On the last 2 reps, he had to discriminate – failed once, got it the next rep. That is part of the challenge 🙂 I think spreading the jumps out to competition distance will help.>>What do you suggest that we select next to practice: The tunnel-jump discrimnation section from Wk ! or the backside section in Week 2 or both?
I suggest doing the tunnel-jump discrims from week 1, as you’ll find those skills to be very useful for the week 2 games 🙂
Nice work here! Have fun!
TracyHi!
I totally agree about the dogs needing early info in order to process it – but thankfully our training technology has improved so the dogs don’t need 2-4 seconds anymore. The dogs only have a stride or two, which is about a half a second. Eek!!This was a good session to work out timing. You were too early for the first few reps, so he had questions:
First rep – the right on the tunnel exit was well-timed, but the right on the 2nd rep was early and too quiet – he heard jump just after exiting the wing, and right as he entered the tunnel. That is why he would think the right would apply to the tunnel exit.
3rd rep also too early, but you were up there so he read the body language.
4th rep – right as he entered and before he exited
5th rep at :29 – I liked this timing a lot! Also 6th rep and 7th rep (go go go)
also last 2 reps – that is the timing for each of those cue, that looked really good! He was able to respond really nicely.
Try not to have yourself as visible at the tunnel exit, try to be behind him more – you can do that by starting closer to the wing rather than sending him, then moving forward so he drives ahead of you to the tunnel.
Nice work here! Onwards to the next video 🙂
TracyGood morning!
He is in the same boat as some of his classmates – that tunnel is delicious!! And yes, you can make the reset cookies a habit by always using them, rather than just after an error: he does the thing, gets the reward, gets a cookie for the reset, then gets the thing again. And if he does the thing incorrectly, he still gets the reset cookie (as part of the habit).
To help increase the value of the jump:
So you can do an entire session or two of just working the jump and not doing any tunnel reps – the goal is that the jump increases in value and he learns that yes, you can do a thing on a jump near a tunnel and not actually take the tunnel LOL! We don’t need to balance it for now… that tunnel is very valuable and I don’t think we are risking him not wanting to take tunnels LOL!About which verbals to use for the jump – you can use the backside verbal (it was the line he was on which is why he was offering it so nicely) or you can line up to face the front and use a wrap verbal. And to add a jump verbal, you can say it then use a physical cue (stepping to the jump) but be far enough from the tunnel that it is obvious. And to teach him that jump means “jump the thing in moderate collection”, you can cue it and toss the reward halfway between a full on go and a 90 degree turn for that not-quite-extension, not-quite-collection general line 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
She did well here! I agree – the turns look great! Nice!!!!!
I see her questions about carrying on ahead of you, when you are using the verbal and some motion – she wants you to get in there and handle it, but we want her to go without you LOL!! So, to get better sending while you are not nearby (picture a dog walk smack dab in the middle, blocking your path), some ideas:
– pull wing and jump closer so it is easier to get to from the tunnel exit. It can be 6 feet away to start, then gradually go further and further away
– you can use a MM for the wraps (tuck it behind the wing) or for the go (set out straight) but leave it out there the whole time – so she goes to it when sent, and ignores it when you ask for the turns. Otherwise it becomes too much of a lure.Having the wing or jump in closer might make it easier to throw, so you can try it both ways and see what works best for her!
Great job here! Keep me posted on how she does!
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the visuals! It is annoying that we can’t post photos here, I will ask the tech folks to see if the software has upgrades that will allow us to do it.
The threadle slices you posted are indeed the traditional threadle slices… and the threadles we are now starting to see are evolving. I htink of threadles as:
– when the dog is approaching an obstacle and has a choice of front versus back, we need to threadle to get the front.
– the threadle creates a ‘sandwich’ – you and the jump are the bread, the dog is the meat LOL! What I mean by that is the dog has to come in between handler and obstacle in order to take the obstacleI drew some threadle slice photos with narration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRzOGIDBZAThe slice versus wrap exit will depend on the cues. The OMD term for flick is more of a backside threadle wrap, but close enough to make it all similar. Threadle slice is where the dog continues away from the previous obstacle. Threadle wrap (flick, depending on terminology) is where the dog turns back towards the previous obstacle, often with a wrap exit.
>>This is the situation with threadles that I see most often: the dog is moving into the “first” jump of the threadle at very high speed with the handler behind; it is very difficult to get him to collect enough to come through the gap.>>
This is so true!! The magic to threadles is not always the threadle itself… it is generally the turn on the previous obstacle. So on the threadle you posted in the picture video where the threadle is 4-5, the key is the turn on 4 as you mentioned. So for threadles, I now use a verbal collection cue to get the dog turned over the previous obstacle then I will cue the threadle. The turn cue applies to 4, and the threadle cue applies to 5 – if we don’t get a turn on 4, the threadle is sooooo much harder.
In this 4-5 scenario of the traditional threadle, I would give my wrap cue to get tons of collection on 4 – then as the dog is taking off for 4, switch to the threadle cue. For the less traditional threadles, the turn cue on the previous obstacle would depend on what line you needed the dog to run. In the videos for this week, we needed a soft turn out of the tunnel so I just called the dog’s name. That got the dog turned to the threadle line, making the threadle on the jump so much easier. Without that turn cue, they would be running hard directly to the front side (wrong side) of the jump.
Let me know if that makes sense! The evolution of threadles makes them harder to sniff out on course sometimes, so I try to look at what the dog sees when exiting the previous obstacle – does he have a choice of front or back?
Tracy
Hi! I agree, the threadle is a fun option to add, especially when we move it away from the jump – same great turns from the dogs, better position for us!
And yes, this is something to add for Promise later on in her training 🙂Tracy
Good morning!
Hi!
She was a good girl here! And yes, it was smart to move to the jump if the wing was boring for her. We want to keep it fast and fun!
This is looking really strong with plenty of variety of challenges in terms of where you started her and what you asked for – so now we look at how to build on it 🙂In the next session, you can move the wing to a more offset position or further back, so you can wrap the wing and move into the discrimination, showing more motion. And then you can angle the jump so the bar becomes parallel to the tunnel, making it more of a backside (with a threadle option too).
And that will have challenge and motion… if it goes well, you can step right into the Layering game added yesterday. That game incorporates a bit if discrimination work while also adding the layering concepts. She might be able to move through all of this in one session or a couple of sessions – the layering games might take longer (or not – she is doing well and moving through really quickly :))
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi Lori and Bobbie! We got the email and replied, but in case you check here first –
The easiest way to load videos is to put them up on YouTube and then copy the link into the Forum here. I am happy to work you through how to do it, it is easy once you get the swing of it.About the codes you are seeing… that might be the cell reception as there is no code here in the forum. If you can, send me a screenshot? Otherwise better cell reception should help make posting easier.
TracyHi!
For now, since we are raising value for the jump – just say jump. That way you can reward anything that is over the jump and anything that is not the tunnel LOL! Wrap, go, backside – it is all good. When I say jump to my dogs, it is a generic “go over the thing” moment 🙂 Eventually, when he is much more comfortable with this discrimination, you can add directionals to it and then maybe the around cue will transfer really easily from the cone to the jump!Hi!
Yay Buddy! Good boy!!! I am glad he is doing so well!>> If I released as I ran, maybe it would have worked better, but when I re-created this sequence today, I did it from running on the same side to rear crossing to standing still and releaseing him and he was fine with all the options.
That is good! Next session – get him wilder and see how it goes, or move the jumps closer together 🙂
>>>People watching at the trial who had a good view, said he was locked onto the far side of the tunnel when he was on the table and only glanced at me. It must have been the vibes of the trial and he just went off. Mookie is a good boy and it does surprise me when he goes off. I have to work harder to grab his head.>>
I agree, he is a good boy who wants to get it right with da momma. I know that people might say he was naughty because he looked at you then took the off course, but I see it differently:
He was locked onto the tunnel because that was the obvious line. You must have given a cue that got his attention, so he looked at you – but then whatever you were doing in that moment must have affirmed his decision to go to the tunnel, so off he went at high speed. Not naughty – a good good boy 🙂 So it is good to know the rear cross is a good option and also a spin might work!
Have fun 🙂
TracyHi! I am so glad he is feeling 100%! He certainly looked great here!
And it is very convenient that the tunnel was right there LOL!The 2 forced fronts to start looked good but I think the threadle was tighter!!
I also timed them – the threadle was faster on both sides of that #2 jump. You can probably turn sooner on the forced front crosses – right as he is arriving at the commitment plane – but I don’t think that would make the FFCs faster than the threadles. So it is definitely worthwhile to keep moving further and further back with the threadles to see if you can eventually be standing near jump 3 and still get the threadle at jump 2 : )Since he did so well with the tunnel sitting there already, you can move the jumps closer to the tunnel, so jump 2 is maybe 8 feet or so from the tunnel – eek! That is harder 🙂 When you add that challenge, put your handling position for the threadle or FFC back to being next to the jump, so we are not increasing the difficulty with 2 things at once.
Great job here!
Tracy
