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Hi!
>>curiosity would not be easier to learn to ride down by adjusting the teeter teach it?
I think that riding the teach it down is VERY valuable… but the true learning to balance comes from the Bang Game and the games we add to it, because the dog has to do it instantly and basically from a stand still. It is hard but very useful. And, we also teach end position with the bang game right away in a way that the teach it does not. I look at it as many pieces of the puzzle that come together for an amazing teeter 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>The list is slightly modified from the one I gave you last summer. I think my thinking about verbals is about the same.
I ask these questions a lot: what are your verbals and what exactly do they mean? It helps us plan 🙂
>>Verbals are under constant pressure: which ones am I going to teach and use? Are they truly fluent or do they require support by motion?
I agree – verbals are hard to teach, dogs are better at reading physical cues 🙂
>>To my shock, obstacle names are NOT fluent and, without handling support, are not much better than 50-50.
That is interesting and thought-provoking. I definitely want my tunnel cues to be fluent, so I can leave for the next line and trust the dog will do the tunnel. And I guess I also want to have contacts and weave pole cues to be fluent too, especially weaves and the RDW where it is important that we don’t need to be there and also those obstacles are often seen in discriminations nowadays.
Thinking about simplifying things and getting the quickest responses:
Most of the cues are very distinct. Dogs do well with distinct sounds!
I see a potential question:
Jump — jump in extension
Jump-right — jump and turn 90 degrees right
Jump-left — jump and turn 90 degrees leftThese are entirely different behaviors that all start with the exact same sound (jump). That would require him to wait to hear more, delaying the response. Or, some dogs don’t wait, they make a decision on the first sound so he has a 2 out of 3 chance of being incorrect. Something to consider is having “go” be the extension cue for the jump, and left and right being the 90 degree turn cues. Or, Jump as the extension cue and left/right as the turn cues. Food for thought!
>>I wanted to add “Tight” (wrap tightly from a lead-out push) but I forget to train it and use “Easy” instead; I think I’ll just ignore for now and see if I really, really need it (after we start trialing).>>
For any verbal attached to a specific handling scenario, you can keep it low on the priority list. The only time he will see a lead out push is when you are in a lead out push position, which means there will always be a TON of physical support… so I think easy (or whatever existing directional fits) will allow you to have one less thing to need to train.
>>I see that you have a separate verbal for taking the far tunnel entrance (what’s yours?).
Tunnel = tunnel entry on your line
Get Out – move away from me to the tunnel entry
KissKissKiss – threadle in towards me for the ‘non-obvious’ tunnel entry>> I have been using my threadle verbal (IN) for this but I will admit that it doesn’t support speed.
I used to use my ‘close’ threadle verbal until I accidentally set up a course at a seminar that was basically impossible to run clean without 2 separate verbals for jump threadle and tunnel threadle. And these folks had nicely trained dogs! So now I have 2 separate words, and train it differently. If you like, we can add games for that here too! We now teach it so that the dog never needs to look at us to wait to be cued to the tunnel.
>>On the other hand, with limited training time, which verbals are the best pay off?
Great question! I think it comes down to priorities based on goals. Goals can relate to the venue you compete in and the level of competition.
One of my dogs is 15 months old today. So, because he is likely going to compete in UKI at the Novice level later this year (much, much later hahaha), my priorities are strong understanding of GO verbals, left/right (because these help my rear crosses and serpentines too!, tunnel, tunnel threadle, and wraps. I am also playing the baby dog foundation games for contact/tunnel discriminations because I will need those for whenever I get the contacts trained up.
On the backburner: backsides, jump threadles, etc – I won’t need those to be actively or solidly in place for a year or longer. I mean, maybe he will get to run at the US Open in Speedstakes next November when he is 25 months old, and I still won’t need those cues for that class.If I was planning on doing AKC and USDAA and other venues – I would have the same goals for verbals for Novice & Open. I feel that we often focus on the fancy stuff (it is fun!!!!) without as much focus on the necessary stuff.
Let me know what you think!
TracyGreat news here! I have added a Contacts Discrimination section to the class, because you and some other folks seemed keen to play those crazy games too 🙂
Hi! The break week is week 3, and the new stuff from Friday is Week 4 (which I originally posted as week 5 which is the week the other puppy class is in LOL!) sorry for any confusion!!!
THi! Glad to hear the teeter is going well! The bang game is important, especially for our smaller dogs who have to learn to ride the motion down. My Elektra was doing what you describe – trying to run to the top LOL! So I just called her back, gave her a cookie and showed her that it was a different game. So you aren’t really telling him that he is wrong, he is still getting his treat – but you are telling him that it is different 🙂
TracyHi!
On the teeter session – he was nice and calm! Nice session! You can get lower (sitting on the ground, or crouching – that will help keep his head down and might encourage more backing up. About the backing up on to the board… Can he back up onto a wobble board or a dog bed? We might need to start him there to build it. The teeter might be too narrow so he is wisely choosing to look at it to get on it.
>>We also tried the lazy contacts game. He wants to do a foot touch with the target- probably because we’ve been doing shaking to get in fit pods. So I went with that behavior.
I think a foot target is fine! What was your original behavior? If he wants to do a foot target and it gets him into the position and he is relaxed and not over-stimulated… perfect 🙂 I think he did really well here!!! Got up on the board, did his targeting, did not get nutty LOL!
>> I had some logistical issues with timing of the target, placement and the fact when he pawed it,it fell off the Cato board. By the end of the session I think I got it together.>>
That is why it is good to start on a cato board or plank, so both human and dog can sort out the mechanics. I discovered that duct tape was required for my 4on behavior to keep the target from falling off 🙂
>>In terms of having the target behavior at the end of the teeter-I know eventually we will fade the target but will the target hpbehavior still happen at the end? For instance- when your dog who scratches has a completed teeter- will the dog drive to the end of the teeter and scratch at it all the way down? I’m trying to make sure I understand what the end picture looks like.>>
Yes, in general, we try to not fade the criteria. The criteria will fade a bit through the dog’s career, but we don’t deliberately take it out. For example – with my oldest dog, I taught him to do a 2o2o with a repeated nose touch for his teeter behavior. He did do the nose touch for the first couple of years, then the actual nose touch faded out a bit but he was still fully in the right weight shifted position, went into a great 2o2o and his head was nice and low the whole time. The nose touch became and almost touch and he had a great teeter for his whole career. So with my scratch girl 🙂 I imagine it will be a similar trajectory: her full teeter will have the scratching (she loves to do it and decided to do it all by herself lol) and I am sure she will scratch for a while in trials – then it will probably fade but she will still have the position I want.
The extra behaviors fade when we get into the ‘bigger’ runs and I release them the instant the arrive in position, or as soon as the board hits the ground – so they don’t really have time for the extra behaviors (because I am not maintaining them in the ring). But plenty of people do maintain the extra behaviors for the dog’s whole career 🙂Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! She is doing really well!!
On the tunnel-pinwheel set up:
Your connection is looking really strong overall, especially on the tunnel exits throughout the session!
On the rep where she did not take the wrap jump – I think more of a transition will help her commit. You were moving then slammed on the brakes as you rotated at :05. Compare that to :15 where you decelerated then rotated and she nailed it. You were a tiny bit past the jump at :15 but I don’t think position was the issue, I think it was the missing decel in the transition at :05.She was a little sticky on the tunnel sends at :20 and :27 and :40. That is pretty normal young dog stuff, my 2 do the same thing sometimes if I am a little too gentle in the cue LOL! So when she lands from the jump, look very directly at her and move to the tunnel until you are sure she will take it, more like what you did at :44 and 1:03 and 1:19. You were very clear on those! Plus she might be a little better your left to the tunnel than on your right, so be extra sure to drive her all the way in when she is on your right side (my youngest currently requires me to practically jump into the tunnel with her when she is on my left – it improves as they get more experience and rewards 🙂 )
She turned the wrong way at :36, it might just be the line up? She was perfect on all the other turns there, on both sides.
When you added the BCs – Good connection on the tunnel exit at :55 and 1:11! You can start the BC sooner by being more lateral, or spread out your pinwheel so you have more room to get it done 🙂She was a super good girl on the serps!!! And extra cool that it was away from home, she looks relaxed as if she is in her own yard. She had trouble when you started adding more speed for the middle jump (normal baby dog stuff :)) so when you send her to jump 1 and you are going to move a bit more, add in an angle the middle jump so she can see the bar a lot more clearly at first and it is more of an easy commitment. Then as she comes in, you can gradually angle the jump back to that ‘flat’ position. You were good about getting her to take it if she ran by, but the angled jump will make it even easier for you to run through the serps.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! He looked really good here! 2 inch bang? No problem!
For the next steps: When you go into the bang game, the challenge becomes getting into position with more angle and speed, so the target can already be there. If he falls off the side of the bang game, you can pull the target, bring him to your side, replace the target, start over – kind of like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YORZ2kX8doE(I was adding arousal here, she was a little further along in the game than the baby dogs here)
Elektra’s target was on the board when she did the bang game (Contraband will do a 2o2o but is not yet ready for this because I am a slacker haha). And this next step of having the target there as he gets on will help him stay straight, move right to position and not look up at you. I think he is definitely ready for that!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Nice job adding challenge to the goat games with the wobble board and plank!!
On the wobble board – this was harder than previous games! But you had a really strong session, shaping him – I like the cookies tossed out onto the board for this like you started doing, it got him looking down at the wobbler and engaging with it more. You can also toss them to the other side so he gets off to get it, then runs back to it on the way back to you – that can add excitement so he will get his hind end up without thinking about it as much. Plus, if the pup is thinking hard about getting on the wobble board, I like to get them off so there is a bit of ‘relief’ then they can run back on so it is not all about staying on it. And then pretty soon, he will want to stay on it and will leap on with all 4 feets 🙂
Plankrobatics: He was a good boy, getting right up on the travel plank!!! He got really mad when you did not reward 3 feet but he worked through it 🙂 He has strong opinions LOL! You can also toss rewards off the side for this one, so he can get right back on – that is good for balance too. When he did have all 4 feet on – He was putting himself into a sit to balance, I think – he was more comfy in a stand with 3 feet on. He couldn’t quite stay on yet with all 4 feet to turn around (3:35 was a great example of him turning around with all 4 feet) so you can double up the planks for now – put this one side by side with another one if you have one, or anything that widens the playing field – even the wobble board would work! He is probably still growing and so every morning he wakes up to his legs longer and feet in a new place – so the extra wide playing field will help build a ton of value for all 4 feet on more easily.
Backing up – He was offering some good backing up but I agree that he had some questions 🙂 I think one tweak will help this! OK, 2 little tweaks but they are related LOL!
When you bend down to put the jumpstart cookie between your feet, stay bent with your hand there to be able to both instantly flick the cookie to him when he backs up, then drop in the next jumpstart cookie between your feet, as soon as he swallows the reward cookie. That way, he will come right back in between your feet and then will back up again. If bending over is painful for too long, you can also do this sitting in a chair! But I think the key will be keeping your hand there and not standing up – that will speed reinforcement and reset him, and he will be less likely to look up at you. Even if the backing up was poopy, you can reset him with the jumpstart cookie between your feet. I think he will find that helpful, because his question here looked like he didn’t know what to do when you didn’t reset him and when you were upright. So think of it as jumpstart cookie, reward for backing up, jumpstart cookie (to reset), reward for backing up, and so on. My back only allows me to do this for about 30 seconds LOL! but you can sit in a chair and give him enough room to get the jumpstart cookie.Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here, he is so fun to watch and you are doing a lovely job with him.
TracyHi!
Here is the Turn and Burn, it is in the Week 4 package of games:https://agility-u.com/lesson/wing-wrap-foundations-part-3-turn-and-burn-2/
Have fun!
TracyHi! The MM is definitely a delicious distraction 🙂 He did really well ignoring it!!! Good boy! His commitment to the wing is looking good! A couple of ideas for you:
– do this on a ‘naked’ wing (no bar, no 2nd wing) so he can isolate the behavior and also so he won’t accidentally roll a foot on the bar as he runs over it.
– also, since he hit the wing on 2 of the reps here, 2 ideas to help him understand to not tough the wing: first, you can wait longer to start the “burn” party and chase – let him get all the way around the wing for now, not touching it, then burn and party 🙂 Also, as he learns to not hit the wing – do this game on a barrel or a non-agility item so we can sort out the no-touching rule before it goes back on a wing. We don’t want him to desensitize to the feel of the wing as he runs by putting him on wings too early.
Since he just turned 5 months, file this game into the once-a-week-maximum category because it has so much bending. It is a really fun game and you only had 5 reps here which is PERFECT, so keep it as a low priority on the training schedule for now 🙂 He is showing really strong understanding so there are no worries about the commitment concept – YAY!!
Great job!
TracyHi! It is always so fun to see pups’ first tunnel sessions LOL!! This was a really good value building Session 🙂 He definitely loves the MM and does not have any fears of the tunnel! Perfect! I think things went better when you started lining him up starting at 2:41 – when you were waiting for the offering earlier on, he was not quite sure of what to do. On the next session, you can line him up to start it like that and do a few reps to warm up the skill and then maybe add on the verbal like you were doing here – but don’t put the verbal on the harder angles until you have warmed up those too and know he will do them. He was really picking it up beautifully by the end!!!! You can also put the MM inside the tunnel to jump start this (especially on different tunnels) at first because it splits the behavior so nicely – the MM can be halfway through, then 2/3rds of the way through, then at the end, and so on. He won’t need the MM for much longer on this, so I am thinking of it more as an easy way to generalize tunnel value.
I think maybe another session or two like this, and you can then add in the threadle foundation of starting him close to the entry but between you and the tunnel so he finds the entry by turning away to it.
Great job!
TracyHappy New Year! This was easy peasy for him, the wings are a pretty big visual. Yay! Super!!! A couple of ideas with an eye on the future – in the future, when you are moving along the line, we will want him to look at his line of jumps and not at you. So, with the goal of keeping him looking forward and head straight:
Since he looks up when you click, so you don’t need to click anymore at this point (and if you do click, reward immediately out on the line because when you clicked more than once, he was totally watching you LOL!) And you can also verbally mark (a quiet yes) and toss sooner: look for the moment when he decides to look at the line and move towards it, before he even gets between the uprights, and then toss the reward so it is out ahead before he gets between the uprights. The goal is to be early enough that he doesn’t look at you (but don’t withhold reward if he does look up at you, as that is likely to cause him to look at you more LOL!)
You can also add challenge with lateral distance – he had no trouble with you out ahead (happy dance!) so now you can use your moment while he is getting his cookie to move a step or two or three away laterally from the parallel line – then start moving forward again 🙂 He is going to have a nice big stride so lateral distance will be your friend on course 🙂
Great job!!
TracyHappy New Year to you too! I am looking forward to a year where I can see all of these puppies and their people in person! I hope to get up to the New England area for some agility, it is one of my favorite agility communities.
>>What happened to week 4? Did I miss something?
Nope, you didn’t miss anything, I screwed up. Oopsie! I fixed it, it should now say week 4. And the 4 lessons should be visible (Serpentines, tunnel wingin’ it games, Bang game and running contact foundations). If they are not visible, let me know 🙂
Have a great day!
TracyHi! She did really well here!!! She slammed that hind end down pretty quickly, really isolating the hind end which is what we want 🙂 When you are able to get more running room, yes, add more running LOL! But at home, you can add challenge by getting her wilder with a toy or a ball then playing the game (dogs often lose their precision when they are feeling wild :)). Also, you can add challenge by moving towards something enticing: a toy on a table, a bowl of food, or anything that might draw her attention (I think you have a tunnel there, so you can move to the tunnel and cue the sit as she approaches it :))
And also be sure to work this on your left and right sides. You can also add challenge by mixing in down cues (I think she is pretty strong with her verbal down cue?) and if she has any trick cues (like spin or wave or something) you can mix those in too! The goal is to convince her to listen for verbals while you are moving 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
