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Hi!
She did great here – I agree that the lotus ball really helped her commit to the jump!It was hard to see where she was looking because the bars on the jump wing were blocking her cute face đ but it looks like she was looking at you. You can keep playing with this to get her to glance at the jump more and even turn her head to it, so you are sure about her commitment when you are behind her like on the last rep, or on the other side of the tunnel (she’s totally ready for that!).
Playing with getting her to look at the lotus ball and at a wing can all be done indoors in the a/c so you don’t have to worry about her or you getting too hot. It had been so hot!!!! And that will transfer easily to the jump.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>I really liked Bobbi and Dr. Murphyâs recent webinar about reward/learning/motivation. >
I am glad you liked it – it was really interesting!!
>Thinking about reward less like traditional reward and more about how it motivates âŚ. thatâs definitely interesting!! >
Absolutely – and also what actually *is* a reinforcement versus just rehearsal. It goes way beyond traditional operant conditioning and gets us to much better places in our training đ
>And the concept of how learning happens when the reward/lack of reward doesnât match the expected reward. So interesting.>
YES, this! And understanding dopamine systems also helps us understand why withholding reward/punishing can cause issues – either when we do it too much, or when we do it when the dog was correct (and they are correct 99% of the time đ¤Łđ)
The more we know, the better we train. It is fun stuff to learn about, I am glad you are in there with us!
>Decided that I have 2 goals for Summer CampâŚ..practice those verbals so that I can use the verbals
The package 3 handling stuff is very specific about using verbals while running. That is the top question I get from everyone: how the heck to remember all the darn words AND be connected AND run. So, stay tuned for package 3 đ
>and still stay connected to Sly and be more funâŚ.less studious, more fun!>
Great goal! We humans get very studious and in our own heads, and dogs can read that as punishment sometimes. And since they are not mice in a lab, and based on how their brains have evolved, they really need the engagement from us as part of the reward system.
Looking at the video:
> First rep on Sequence 3 I was thinking more about my handling (get there for the blind) and not enough about what Sly was doing⌠too early on the blind from 5 to 6. >
Yes – a bit too early. But rather than mark it and stop (even to reward) – just keep going. Sure, he was following you correctly but the big marker and stopping can still be perceived as relative punishment. So, just keep going and cue the next thing.
The 2nd blind at :45 was better in terms of committing him to 5! You can be a stride or too earlier there. 1:13 was spot on in terms of the timing! You were finished with the blind and re-connected before he took off. SUPER!!!
The bar dropped there – it looks like it was because you went past the line you wanted, causing him to jump past the line. Then as he was taking off, you were pushing back towards 6 so he tried to adjust in the air.
The timing at 2:00 was not quite as perfect as the timing at 1:13, but it was still good and more importantly – it looks like your running line was more directly towards 6 so he had no questions. Yay!
>Sequence 4, shouldâve rewarded after 4 on the first rep. He had a little bit of a question and I missed the opportunity for that unexpected reward and helping the learning>
Agree! He was heading out there asking questions (there is something out there next to the wall that put pressure on the line too) so a reward in between the 2 jumps would have been good. But he did get rewarded, which is good – the placement out on the line will be more effective for getting the layering and for making sure he knows it is not all about coming back to you đ
He had a question about going all the way out there on the next rep when you tried not to go past the tunnel, so that definitely points towards the reward needing to be on the landing side of 4 more. He got it on the last rep really well when you went another step or two past the tunnel – and you were still able to get the layering done really well too.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
>Lift would like to thank her Counsel and says, I rest my case, so there, stoopid hooman!>
Ha!
I mean, in the time that I have known Lift, she has never actually been wrong, so I always take her feedback very seriously LOL
and yay for the weave poles!!!!!
T
Hi! This went well!
Nice blind 5-6 each time!!! And good work with the verbals here too!
On the first rep, the info was a little late for the 7 jump on the post turn: you were facing the wall and she was jumping into the wall so the bar was down at :07 (she just didnât know how tight the turn was).
Compare to the reps at :15 and :27 and :35 where you turned to face the new line sooner (really whipped your shoulders around in the post turn) and she kept the bar up (earlier info meant earlier organization for the jump). The last rep with the spin was GREAT! It got you turned to the next line sooner than the other options and she did great.
One thing I am noticing is that she often keeps the bars up on the âeasyâ lines on the first run (the bar down at :07 was more about late handling). Then as the session continues, she drops more bars for no real reason other than not quite powering over the bars enough. So a question: How much time does she have between reps? She might need more time to let her muscles recover (lactic acid build up, etc) so she is at full power for each rep. Can you do one rep with her, than maybe a run with Sassy the go give Grace cookies đ then come back 5 minutes later and try another with Maisy? I am curious to see if that helps her.
Nice work here!!! Let me know what you think.
Tracy
Hi!
I am glad you got through the brutal weather week! We had it here on Monday-Thursday. SO HOT! It made yesterdayâs 85 degrees seem downright cool and comfy. And it sounds like your ankle is doing better – yay!
Looking at Kaladinâs video: He has layering experience and did really well! For him, you can stretch the sequence out as far as the yard allows: how much distance can he do? It would be fun to find out!
Since he has an understanding of layering so he was able to do sequence 1 without much motion, good boy! You can add more motion by sticking closer to 1 and 2 to get more speed into the layering, and deliver the âout go jumpâ verbals before takeoff for 2 (they were at landing of 2, which is a little late).
Sequence 2 had more motion into the layer so he really powered into it! On this one too, you can give the âgo out there and layerâ verbals before he takes off for 2.
Seq 3: On the first run, the FC 5-6 can be sooner. You did it as he was over 5 and ideally it would be finished by then. That caused a bit of wideness over 5 and 6 as well because the late FC caused the turn cues to be late.
Nice timing adjustment for the FC timing at 1:10! It was earlier, finished before takeoff, so the turn was better there too, and the turn on 6 was better too. It would be fun to see if the turn he did here was faster or slower than you adding more collection cues, like brake arms or even a spin. You can try all 3 and we can time it!
>The indoor space in Animal Inn was a lot cooler than the sauna outside but the ring is long and narrow with Great Mats (not the comfort king she runs on at Fusion). >
I am very glad they moved it indoors!!!!
>She figured out the footing quickly and started out well but relapsed into a Leaping Lizard as the session progressed.>
We havenât seen the LL in a long time – do you have video so we can see why it was happening? It is possible that she seemed to figure out the foot, but was compensating and devoting a LOT of bandwidth to it – which can be frustrating! So it is possible that the LL moments were footing related. I have certainly seen frustration happen caused by footing issues!
>A waiting dog erupting in a fit of really loud barking just outside the ring right before her 2nd sequence in the first rep did not help >
Poor girlie! Yes, it does take a lot of bandwidth to recover – that plus the heat outside plus the footing plus the sequencing plus you not running normally might have just added up to not a lot of brain juice left over.
Looking at the video:
>She does some exciting leaping as we are starting>
That seems to be part of her âI am really excited and readyâ mode, so I think it is great đ
>then the frustrated leaping lizard shows up later>
I think she had a good point here about the info she was seeing! And also the rate of success/rate of reinforcement got low which brought on the frustration (more on that below).
Bearing in mind that she is new to this level of challenge, she had a valid point at :22 when she was heading to the 3 jump then came off the line:
At :22 you were rotated facing the tunnel with your arm up really high. She processed the Go verbal to override the motion and was heading out to 3 (GOOD GIRL!).
But because you had gotten in a little close to the tunnel and stood still, your next movement was to your left which took you off of the parallel path line she needed to see to support the layering.
She stayed on the correct side of the tunnel but then when you stopped and didnât reward, she perceived it as punishment and got a little mad (she was correct that the info was a little confusing). Even though you praised her, it was frustrating to her because following a big effort, it was a withdrawal of reinforcement opportunity and you walked away from her. You were walking away to place the toy, but she didnât know that. So you can totally throw the reward to reward the effort of getting out close to the line. Then you can place the toy to help, but also watch the video to see what caused her to come off the line.
You had more parallel path motion as she was approaching 3 at :46, plus the placed toy was good visual – fun to see that the jump was more valuable!
Something very similar happened on the first rep of sequence 2: You went past the tunnel to get her to take 3 (which she did) then as she was approaching 3, you pulled away laterally to get back to the other side of the tunnel, which cued a right turn on 3 which she executed brilliantly.
She stayed out on the other side of side of the tunnel reading the info – didnât get rewarded and instead you turned your back on her and walked away. I am sure you were planning your next rep but from her perspective it was punishing (negative punishment, withdrawal of reinforcement opportunity) which is frustrating especially since she was reading the info correctly. She barked a BIG CURSE WORD at you when you turned your back to her.
She did get a cookie when you got back to your line up spot, but that was a solid 10 seconds later so it did not correlate to the sequence you had run.
Then at 1:20, you broke connection a little on the way to 2 (pointing forward with your back to her) and she boiled over into LLF (Leaping Lizard Frustration), having a big mad. From her perspective, sheâd already been told she was wrong after processing information as best she could (and correctly), so she had the Big Mad when the info was unclear.
At 1:54, you had a similar pull away from 3 but you threw the reward for getting 3 and the effort of trying to read the cues: excellent!! That is what she needed (and then watch the video to see why she was coming off the line). You can also throw the reward for her getting close to the 4 jump at 2:23! Throw it early when she is looking at it, rather than wait til she lands from it. She got a little unsure when she had to layer the tunnel AND the tree.
Basically, even if she doesnât take the jumps perfectly, you are shaping the layering by getting the toy out there and telling her: yes, being out there is where you should be. And then she will start finding the jumps on her own when she understands the line.
I grabbed screenshots so you see the moments she was seeing and basing her responses off of:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1L3Fhfpj_GUjJA28LZHdvSGAwcr9Ngy61IIoCPJ99WNg/edit?usp=sharingSo I think the leaping moments here were her saying âHEY I AM DOING IT RIGHT, WHY NO REWARD HOOOOOMAN?â and in a Sheltie court of law, I think the jury would agree with her LOL!!!! So make throwing the reward or using effort rewards the highest priorities when training these, and even if it goes wrong: stay engaged and reward đ
>massage therapist on Wednesday did find tightness in her grasilis and more on the right than the left. It did loosen up but Iâm keeping a close eye on it and massaging her some too. It certainly doesnât seem to be inhibiting her airborne tendencies.?
Interesting!! I think the gracilis is responsible for explosive speed on lines and turns – it is a common injury in whippets/greyhounds/whippet mixes. I don’t think it is as involved in leaping up as it is in driving lines in extension, but I will do more research. I think what helps keep the gracilis happy is active warm up where we ramp up to speed gradually then do some explosive movements in the warm up. Let me ask my whippet racing people what they do to properly warm it up and keep it happy đ
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning! â¨
It is great that you got to set this up indoors!>So I pulled a muscle and canât run very well.>
Sorry about the pulled muscle, hope it heals quickly! You moved through these courses really well – you were strategic with your position and use of distance, so you got everywhere you needed to be without needing to sprint.
>She struggled in first two dog walks so I adjusted the jump to make the approach better for her.>
Yes- the 2 jump here looks like it was set up just a stride or so too far from the line, so she landing wide and couldnât quite adjust – I am glad you adjusted it!
So much good stuff on this video! You did really well with both courses!!
Course 1:
After adjusting the line the to DW, the opening ran well. Great job on the backside at 4 then the send to the teeter. – nice independent teeter! You ended up past the tunnel at :34 and did a side change then another side change which ended up blocking the line to 8 at :35 (she cursed at you a little there đ¤Łđ) so try to run to the next line without over helping on the teeter. You can head directly to your position and trust her teeter skills (and reward them a lot to maintain them đ )
You did a spin on the jump before the weaves at :40 – you can be moving away towards the weaves as she is committing at :39 so you are out of the way when she lands. That will show her a better line to the weave entry.
Excellent weave independence so even though you were not running full throttle and protecting the pulled muscle, you still got past the a-frame to set the turn 12-13 beautifully! Super nice line there!!!
You can start the FC 14-15 at :53 sooner: try to get ti going as soon as she exits the tunnel (or a bind cross there, which is quicker to finished and how the line). More importantly, connect back to her as you exit the cross, so she sees where to be when she lands. She drifted a little wide because she didnât know which side to be on, until she saw 15.
Backside at 16 and ending line looked great – fabulous connection! Super!!!!
Course 2 also ran really well!
Nice opening 1-2-3 both times!! I liked the 2nd run through there (starting at 2:37) even more because you were moving through it more, so she powered through it more too.
Heading to the backside on 5: You can tell her where she is going before she enters the 4 tunnel so she doesnât curl in for a stride then go back out to the backside. The backside verbal can start before she enters the tunnel and then keep saying it as she exits.
The 6-7-8-9 line looked good! Very nice!!!
She had a question about the 10 jump: she got it each time, but at 1:30 she had to hit the brakes hard because the RC info was a little late.
On the 2nd run at 2:50 you did a FC there and she had to adjust right before takeoff because the FC was late (she was already out of the tunnel). I think the RC you did on the previous rep was a good plan, she just needed the cues to start as she exited the tunnel. Or, a blind cross is quicker to finish so she can see the new side sooner (instead of a FC).
Excellent timing on the backside cues at 1:33 and 2:53 for 12! Her line almost became a RC on the flat where she started on your right then ended up on your left to be sent to the backside – you can keep her on your right there for a threadle wrap rather than switch right to left side. That will be a little smoother and faster.
Her teeter confidence is impressive (keep rewarding it!) She had a couple of questions about it when you were moving away too early:
She was not sure about the teeter at 1:37 – comparing it to :29 where she had a lot of confidence going to it, you faced the line longer at :29 to help commit her. At 1:37, you gave the verbal as she was approaching 13 (jump before the teeter) but turned away very early so that overrode the verbal and she changed her line. At 1:44, you faced the line for a step or two longer and she got it.Yay!
She took the teeter with you moving away early at 2:59, but part of that was she had learned the sequence đ So on a new course/sequence, be sure to give her one or two steps towards it to support the verbal and the distance. And without movement at 3:23, she came off the line when you turned too early. Then at 3:34 you got her to it but moved down the line and said âgood girl!â so she came off (perhaps thinking the good girl was a release to a reward).
So the best reps on the teeter send had you facing the line for one more stride as she was landing from the previous jump. She had a great stay in her position on the bottom of the teeter!
Looking at the line after the teeter: This is another spot to trust her teeter skills and go directly to your next handling position.
At 1:54 and 3:04 you were a little too far past the tunnel and blocked the line to the backside at 16 after it for a moment (she had a little zig zag there). At 3:26 and 3:54, you were showing the wing of the backside as she exited the tunnel and she had a very direct line to the backside. That looked great!At 4:34 you handled that section (15-16-17) by doing a threadle then rear crossing 16. She read it but added strides to get all the info, so it was slower than pushing from the landing side and sending to the 17 jump from a little ahead of her đ
17-18-19 was fabulous on the first run!
At 3:08, she read the cues to 17 as a threadle wrap – you were looking forward and turned parallel to the threadle wrap line it looks like a threadle wrap cue.At 3:56 you were pretty perfect with your connection and line to 17 – super nice line there!!!
After the dog walk:
Great job getting the backside each time! You did a BC 19-20 on the first rep: Using the BC there, you can the BC 19-20 sooner, as soon as you see her on the way to the 19 backside you can start it so it is finished before she takes off. That will likely mean starting the blind just before she arrives at the entry wing of 19. You were a little late at 2:03 so she had to adjust the line after landing.You might not need a blind there at all, though – keeping her on your right and either doing a BC between 20 and 21, or a RC on 21 (like you did at 2:07) worked really well! The trick to that one is to send to the 19 backside without getting too close to the landing side of 19:
At 4:04 you got on her line by accident and pushed her to the backside of 20. Good job getting a reward in for her there, she was being a good girl đ You gave her an in-in threadle at 4:43 there but I think all you needed was to be a little further from her line at 19, turn your shoulders, and call her name.
The RC on 21 at 4:46 looked great! And puts you ahead for the next line too.
Lovely ending line here! Those independent weaves look great and make it easy for you to show her the end. Yay!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Yesterday morning cricket and I went to run course 2 agility and she refused to run. She has done this at Kathie Leggettâs and the best we could figure it started with a wet tunnel. Ginger and I tried bringing her there on a hot dry day and she refused (literally tries to leave). Then when Taq got sick I tried to Sub Cricket for a jen Pinder seminar and cricket walked in fine but the minute we started agility she declined this was full year later. So needless to say I freaked out that she was broken. >
I admit to freaking out a bit just reading this: omg, what is wrong, is she sick, is she injured, do we have a motivation issue caused by some underlying thingâŚâŚ.
>There was water in the tunnel. I broke down the course and set up a jumping pop out this AM. She worked!!!! Thank god. So dry tunnels only. Oddly enough if it is raining they can be wet.>â¨â¨CRICKET WHY YOU GOTTA SCARE EVERYONE?!?!?! 𤣠I got more grey hairs just reading this! That is interesting about the wet tunnels, but maybe I only think it is odd because everything here is wet in the Southeast and California is a dry environment by comparison?
Do you think she has an aversion to a wet tunnel that generalized? Maybe she slipped and it hurt once, so now all wet tunnels are evil? You can rebuild the love if you have one of those tiny 3 foot tunnels and add a tiny bit of wetness? Or send her here to lovely Virginia to train, where you might notice me wearing tall rain boots in some of the demo videos because it is SO WET here in the mornings during the cooler times of day LOL!
Taq looked great on the video! She is doing some seriously grown up stuff đ
I am excited about her stay – on the first rep, she had an excellent stay with lateral distance, and then finding jump 1 really well when released. She had a tiny step to you before finding the jump.
She had a little bit more of a question on rep 2 (sequence 2) with a bigger step to you before finding the jump, so keep working the forward focus skill to get her to look at the jump (even if you place a toy or target) to build it up over time and eliminate that extra step
Because of the lead out on both of these sequences, she knew exactly where she was going 1-2 and had a great turn and a ton of speed!
>The first one I felt like I could be moving faster and I missed some connections.>
I think you were moving plenty fast! At :13, it looks like you looked forward to see where 4 was then still looked a bit forward as you were handling it. She slowed a little and was not 1000% certain of where to be – it was subtle, just a tiny extra stride or two.
Nice connection on the exit of the FC of 4! You can maintain that connection on the send til she is past you can committing to the 5 jump (you were looking a little forward there too) so she was a little sticky.
The turn to the tunnel and threadle wrap and ending line looked great! Fabulous combo of fast and tight! *Perfect* timing and execution of your threadle wrap cue at :20!!
When you ran it again at the end of the video, you had lovely connection on the opening line! Yay! You might be able to decelerate sooner into the wrap on 4 to get a little more collection – but that might not actually be faster! A good game to try with her is to run that sequence and get the tightest turn you can on 4. Then run it again with a turn that looked like the one here at 1:02, which had more extension⌠then we time it and see which is faster. The answer with small dogs is often that the slightly more extended turn is faster!
On the threadle wrap cues at 1:06, your timing of starting it was spot on again! Then you stepped in to her line too early, which pushed her back to the front of the jump. Compare to the previous rep at :22, you didnât use your feet much at all there. The cue had your feet mostly facing forward parallel to her line, and the cue was mainly upper body. So definitely keep your feet parallel to her line on the threadle wraps and try not to step in to the line.
We have more on these threadle wraps coming on Monday, along with some good bloopers that isolate feet doing the right and wrong things đ
Sequence 2:
She had a long look at the tunnel on the wrap at 3 (:35) That is a hard challenge, the tunnel is a big delicious visual right there – I think your connection was really strong! And the timing of the wrap cues were good (you were rotated before she took off) so you can add a little more deceleration into it and call her name as you are exiting the FC and running up the next line. At :44 you did have good deceleration but rotate a bit too early
On the send to the 5 jump at :38 – this is where more connection and less arm will help! As she is over the 4 jump, your timing was good of beginning the cues but you were pointing with your arm – and that turned your shoulders away from the jump so she didnât take it.
Compare to the rep at :49 where you had connection to her over the 4 jump and sent with less arm. Your arm followed her line as she headed to the jump, as opposed to pointing to the jump ahead of her. The connection turned your shoulders t the line you wanted and she had no questions đ and having your arm follow her line rather than point ahead of her made a huge difference. She found the jump with no questions, had a tight turn and a ton of speed along the next line. Super!
>I donât think I ran faster⌠why do I look so slow?>
I think you are moving plenty fast, donât bug yourself about it đ Agility handling is like being a tight end in football – you have to run with your head turned and make multiple changes of direction. That appears slower compared to an Olympic sprinter who only has to run forward in one direction, with their head forward. But tight ends are PLENTY fast and get the job done beautifully, like you did here!
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I knew I liked you!>
Back at ya! We both have terriers and a blue merle pointy dog, we are clearly meant to hang out and train LOL!!
> I donât find the toy stealing that offensive either, >
That is good! It was kind of adorable and he was having fun đ And it didnât delay things too much so he still got a lot of good reps in too!
>but of course EVERY other trainer I work with insists it has to be under cue control and just makes me feel like unless he can 100% work with a preplaced toy and NEVER take it unless cued then we shouldnât even be doing agility. >
YeahâŚâŚâŚ I have thoughts about that LOL but mainly that it is not something I agree with đ¤Ł. I am guessing that those folks need to own & train a terrier or sighthound (or Papillon hahahaha) at some point đ
>Keeping the naughty feels way more natural for a terrier.>
There is actually a lot of science with basically says, âsure, it is not a problem to let them steal the toy sometimes and have a laugh and playâ and lots of science that says also it might produce more motivation and be better for learning/memory/resilience to NOT have the toy placed and all of that control on it. Toy placement is a bit rooted in operant conditioning/transactional learning which is fine because OC is a part of learning, of course⌠but it is actually a pretty small piece of it and ultra control on a toy on the ground might be detrimental to the other elements which are super important! Fascinating, nerdy stuff đ
>While he loves toys here at home, in trial environments, especially dirt where we trial most often, heâs too overstimulated to play with them. Dirt especially- YUCK! He MIGHT play with a toy in public on turf, Iâm judging at a turf trial July 4 and plan to run him on my last course of the day after the trial is over if possible to test it out. >
Yes, dirt can change it. Have you ever tried real animal parts on the toy? Gross but effective – I found a squirrel toy from a vendor at a show that is squirrel fur (with tail, feet, etc) and a tiny water bottle in it for extra bone crunching. It is on a line so it is relatively long, great for dragging/chasing. It is the most motivating toy I have. I also have a fur covered lotus ball that the dogs are nuts for too, and I donât need to put food in it even for the foodie dogs.
>Since he LOVES people, I did recently run him using our food reward area, sending him to a person to feed him, then calling him back in to work again. Struggled a bit to call him away back into the ring, but my helper was a bit too exciting and didnât really understand what I wanted her to do to help him>
That is great, though, even if it didnât go perfectly! Having a person in the ring to help can open up a lot of possibilities plus he can learn about the presence of the other person also indicating the presence and upcoming availability of food!
> (and because he was soooo excited when he did come back in the ring to me, he still had food in his lips that fell out of his mouth, shhh! Donât tell UKI, Iâm just going to get a different helper and make sure they practice with us beforehand).>
Ha! I will never tell LOL!!! I am glad they at least off the food box – it has helped a lot of dogs!
Stay cool!
Tracy
Hi! She did really well here, I think she likes layering!! And I like how it helps her look forward at the bars, which resulted in very few bar issues.
Keep repeating the out verbal and say it loudly so she really propels!
She had a jumping question about bar 1 on sequence 2. This is a great spot to be able to use your forward focus, so she is looking at the jump before the release. That should result in touching it a lot less. When she dropped it at :13 and ticked it on the other reps, it was because she was looking at you when you released and started to move.
She had a little trouble with bar 3 on sequence 2. She was looking forward but maybe anticipating the next line? She didnât hit a bar on the first rep of seq 1 or 2, possibly because she didnât know the next line and had to look at each bar. So you can keep her looking at each bar a bit more by randomizing the reward throw or placement – sometimes reward at the end of the line like you did here, and sometimes in the middle of the line between the jumps (I think that is where the reward was at :34).
Great job here!
TracyHi!
>So much for Pick being a âmaybeâ, heâs gotten more working time on this than Roots has!>
Yay Pick! He is really fun! Super nice session!
>We worked the first sequence on the four corners drill. Yes, 3+ minutes worth of working on one 4 obstacle sequence! I left in all reps (the 4 rep rule doesnât seem applicable when just forward chaining to teach a skill?) including him stealing the preplaced toy twice. >
The 4 rep concept is for each sequence or course, just so people donât do something like 200 jumps in a session. Chaining a skill is something that will be broken down into multiple reps, so it is easier to time the session to 5 minutes or less and take breaks, if that makes sense. Your session here was lovely!
>including him stealing the preplaced toy twice. Self control: not the terrierâs strong suit! Heâs little, not super fast, not super confident, so layering has been hard for him to learn, despite the fact that just running away and terrier-ing is his go to stress behavior (another reason that heâs 4 and still doesnât trial).>
Ha! I will say that allowing a little bit of stealing things is great for self-confidence in terriers đ Kind of a âWow, so clever, you won the prizeâ approach as we very gently massage the behavior into what we want it to be. It is not exactly efficient for training the skill, but it is silly fun and terriers LOVE silly fun LOL I admit to cracking up when he did it. You can use food rewards to convince him to come with you and ignore the placed toy. The more confidence I want to build up, the more I engage with some of the so-called ânaughtyâ behaviors LOL!
He had a great forward focus on jump 1 and lots of speed! And you broke it down really well, to build up the layering understanding.
He did GREAT with the toy placement here, and with the big party you gave him for getting it right. He seemed to be having a grand time with the. Game and getting the prize. And he made an easy switch from the placed reward to the thrown reward. Really fun to watch!
And you can keep the fun going if he misses the 4 jump like at 2:24 – rather than mark in a way that might potentially tell him it was wrong, you can do more of a âgame onâ approach: if the dog misses the jump and the placed reward, I run to get to the toy and play with it in the spot I wanted the dog to go. I play with the toy and tease the dog a bit, then try again. That is a bit of enhancement that can help with the behavior and also keep things really fun – dogs (terriers!) can be competitive for reinforcement, so they are not going to let me get there first again đ
Question: how does he feel about other humans? If he likes them, you can incorporate them into rewarding the big distances by having the other human throw and drag a reward for him to chase. You can transfer this type of fun to a UKI trial by having another human out there who throws then drags a toy (using a long leash or line). Ideally the person would be someone he likes and someone he has played the game with before – it can be a fun way to make the trial ring less stressful. If he doesnât love other people⌠donât do this LOL and you can be the one dragging a toy on a long line đ
>Also I decided to just âslap on the new verbalsâ for these soft turns because what could go wrong? (Iâm less hesitant to experiment with things with him since he may never trial for reals, so who cares if I mess him up right?)>
I am completely on board with this philosophy! It went well!
>Questionable whether 4 is hup or go on, but moot point probably since I was rewarding there any way, it would be hup if we were continuing on to 5.>
I agree – go on for the reward, hup for when you continue to 5.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
Yes, the forecast for the week was icky and at least it will cool down a little in coming days? Maybe?
Yay for Nox nailing them!!!
>I struggled to figure out how to keep going after she missed a jump when the tunnel was in the way. In hindsight, I guess I could have just thrown the toy the correct direction she was supposed to go anyways. I didnât want to send her in the tunnel and reward since thatâs what she thought I wanted anyway (at least the coming in to me part).>
You can call her in to you and reset with a reward, partially to pay her and partially to line up for the next sequence.
>I donât have an explanation for what I was doing on the very first rep of the first sequence, lol. I donât think there was any thought process to that except old habits die hard.>
Ha! That is a great spot for a reset reward – the handling definitely pulled her off the line on that very first rep.
Great job accelerating more and throwing the reward! After that!
Seq2: This angle is definitely harder for the dogs. You can throw the reward as soon as she looks at the line to affirm that yes, she should look out there and head to that line.
Once she was on the line, she stayed on it really well!Seq 3:
The opening to this went great! The BCat 1:27 was a shade early for the big distance, you can let her get past the tunnel and look at 5. That is what you did at 1:43 and even better at 2:18 and it worked really well! As soon as you are finishing the blind, do a BIG reconnect so she sees the new side and start your decel and hand and verbal cues for the wrap on 6.A spin can work there too because it gets your feet turned to the new direction sooner than the decelerated post turn/brake arms.
Seq 4: Adding the hard line from seq 2, getting past the tunnel needed more support from you and less arm at 2:41. The arm up to send to the jump can inadvertently turn your shoulders to the tunnel.
At 3:11, you were closer to the line and your arm was down, and she got it really well! Yay!She had a question about the backside at the end of this sequence. She pays attention to everything and had a valid point:
At 3:16, excellent cues for the backside. Great timing!
At 3:17, as she was landing, you pulled your left arm back and turned your feet away from the backside line, and it looked like a threadle cue for a moment, so she started to come in to threadle. You pushed her back out at 3:18 and she saved your bacon by getting it at the last minute. GOOD GIRL! So remember to stay parallel to the backside line til you see her locking onto it, and donât rotate your shoulders to much or turn your feet.Seq 5: looked really good!!! She is staying on her lines really well and your connection/timing is generally strong. You held the parallel line better to the backside at the end and she got it really well. My only suggestion on this one is that same as for sequence 3: you can make faster/clearer connection after the BC 5-6, to tighten her line there and start the turn cues sooner too.
Seq 6 went really well also! For the different 5-6 line, keep moving to your position on 7 and use a GO to keep her out on the line (the jump verbal might get muddy because there are a lot of jumps out there LOL!) Ideally, as she is taking off for 6, you are already rotated and standing still in your threadle position.
Nice job sending to 8 with the ârightâ verbal, and decel – that was a lovely turn!
The switch was a little wide at 4:26 (you had a lot of acceleration and said jump which cued extension, then said switch as she took off). She drove to the off course tunnel partially because the turn was a little wide on the previous jump, but mainly because that was the obstacle you were running towards at 4:28. She couldnât see enough connection there to know to stay on your right side because your arm was up and that was closing your shoulders/blocking connection. So based on motion and proximity, she was locked on to the tunnel until you opened up connection a little more and she was you wanted her on your right side. Good save (and she only cursed at you a little đ¤Ł)Great job on these (and also great job adding startline rewards!
Tracy
Thanks for sending the start line clip! I look at it from what accidental cues are the dogs reading which are associated with the release?
>this a terrible training session in terms of choices I made. >
I read this and was steeling myself for something FAR worse – tempers flaring, etc. You stayed relatively calm! Maybe you sent the wrong video đ¤Łđđ¤Ł
When the dogs go to the backside, that is a handler error – too much pressure on the line because of our position relative to the dog (where we are standing/facing/stepping) and the angle of the dogâs stay might be facing the backside. You can see that on the firs rep where you are still âinsideâ the line of the wing and she leans into the backside line then self-releases. I think she self-released because you didnât release, and normally you would have released by then.
For forward focus, if my dog is looking at the wrong spot, I will lower my arm (basically saying ânot that jumpâ) then raise it again (âtry again, dogâ).
At :33, you were in about the same spot, she looked at the front (no release) then at the line to the back of the jump (release!) so she went to the back, as the release affirmed the line to the backside. Good spot for a reward as you reset.
1:05 – she is leaning to the backside when you released (you were tucked in too close, on the inside of the wing).
So the easiest thing to do to NOT get the backside, is to move yourself away more laterally. That takes the pressure off the line so she doesnât confuse it with the backside line cue.
> But as the game of agility starting getting more fun and she got a little older, it has become inconsistent. >
Try to add more arousal before training any stays, and also video everything. I would bet you are accidentally pairing releases with something. It could be a certain amount of time before the release (3 seconds is something we all do by accident) or when we get to the jump or when we reconnect, etc etc. Dogs are amazing at reading all of this!
I also notice that when you lead out for real, you have a lot of muscle tension. That increases excitement for her⌠which we really donât need. The increased muscle tension is what we use when we want MORE excitement about releasing from the stay LOL!
So you can lead with more chill. If having your arm up looks like muscle tension, you can lead out swinging your arms around. I do this partially to keep the arms relaxed and partially so I donât pair the release with any arm movement.
> In other words, I donât *think* that my nerves played a part in the startline issue surfacing. >
I donât think it is nerves as much as it is she is anticipating something, creating the release. And also getting frustrated with being fixed a lot.
> itâs one more repetition practicing what I donât want.>
This is true but we need to tell her how she is right and not how she is wrong – telling her she is wrong is going to get *more* movement, not less.
>I started fixing her feet moving because she WILL turn and face me instead of the first obstacle. She doesnât always stand up, but her butt will rotate so her whole body is facing me. >
This might be causing frustration (for you both!). Fixing her feet is punishment and also that is generally pretty delayed, so she is not associating the punishment with the behavior it is intended to give feedback on. She might not even realize she is moving her feet.
So for now, take the pressure off the start line stay so it is filled with success. Then everyone relaxes and the stays magically get even better.
You can do this 2 ways:
Stick with short successful lead outs, with relaxed body language, making sure you are not accidentally pairing the release with anything like movement or arms or connection.
Donât worry about if she moves her feet towards you on a lateral lead out, as long as she sticks to her end of the deal: she cannot move forward to the jump, she needs to take the jump you are cueing and she needs to keep the bar up. That is a deal that has created a lot of highly successful start line stays!
>I was also thinking that maybe she needed clarity that no movement is acceptable so that she wasnât guessing what was allowed and what wasnât. Is moving a foot across her body ok but moving 2 feet isnât? Can she move both front feet as long as her butt doesnât rotate? Can she do any moving if her butt never gets up? >
This all assumes she realizes you are giving feedback on foot movement. She might not realize it and might not realize her feet are moving. The dopamine release of simply entering the ring leads to movement (dopamine really drives movement). This is not happening on an operant level (âI choose to move my feet!â) so she might not have a conscious awareness of it.
And when she freezes in position? Big rewards! I do a lot of crazy freeze dance games with my dogs: tug tug bark bark tug tug FREEZE! in a stay⌠reward đ
>I assume it is an arousal issue, and I know she is more likely to get up when sheâs tired or in an exciting environment. >
Arousal, dopamine, depletion, late adolescence, etcâŚ. All normal. Keep doing the stuff you are working on separately, be sure you do it with the toy outside the ring, and keep doing crazy high arousal games like these:
I also let my dogs choose their position on the start line. When the leash comes off and they are in the right place, I jut say âstayâ. They settle into a sit, stand or down – then I lead out. That has been effective and easy to maintain, plus it tells me about the arousal level. For example: if I get a sit as the choice from CB, he is pretty chill. If I get a stand from CB, he is VERY excited. Good info!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Pop out 1 – nice job on the one and done! The threadle wrap on 6 was especially strong! Only one suggestion:
To get more explosiveness to jump on these types of openings, use a line up where he is facing the jump and you can cue forward focus, releasing with the wrap verbal. That will allow you to do the FC sooner (before he takes off) to get the best turn there.>Then played with the right wing, which that change went fine>
That right turn on 1 was a lot faster than the left turn on the 1-2-3 line! And he was very close to the jump so had no momentum into it. You can start him further back to get even more speed đ
>we then had problems getting the backside @4.>
That looked to be a combination of you blocking the line to the wing and also pulling forward with your dog-side arm/shoulder which might indeed look like a pull/send cue for a tunnel discrimination.
You were staying at 3 longer than needed – you can send him to 3 a he exits 2, then go directly to the position on 4 where the wing meets the bar.
>watched video and I couldnât really tell why it was happening, so when in doubt increase connection and we got it>
Yay for watching the video! Increasing connection kept your dog-side arm out of the way, plus you were a little further over and showing the wing at 1:36, so he got it nicely. You were kinda blocking the wing again at 2:05 but your arm was down so he came in and took the backside.
>Happy with my choice from 4 to the end, donât like my orchestra conductor arms at the threadle wrap.>
Conductors are cool people! LOL! Donât worry about it – the arms are not blocking connection and he is reading the cue really well. If it ainât broke⌠donât fix it 𤣠plus you are doing it fluently and I donât want you to have to think about it at all.
Pop Out 2:
The blind on takeoff of 3 worked really well each time!!!On the first rep, you can keep moving through the send to 4, so you are ahead of him at the tunnel – that way before he enters, he sees and hears the turn cues for the exit. At :16, he was entering when you called him and started to rotate, so the exit was wide. Start those cues when he is still 6 feet away from entering the tunnel.
Compare to the last rep at 1:09 where gave a clear verbal (âturnâ) and rotation before he entered so he had a great exit! That cut off a significant amount of time!
BC on 7-8 is a great choice! Start it as soon as you see him locking onto the backside wing, just before he arrives at it. At :20 the BC started when he took off, so he had to adjust his line after landing.
On the 3rd run, you did a FC there starting just as he was arriving at the backside wing – that is great timing and set up a great line!
On the 2nd run, he had a better turn on the tunnel exit because at :42, when he was about 4 feet or so away from entering, he saw you decel and move away. You can call his name at that time too, so the verbal supports the handling.
That set up a good blind to the backside of 7 and keeping him on your right worked well too. It turns out that this option was faster than the BC or FC options on the line here!
Pop out 3:
Good job making sure he is lined up to face the backside line here at the beginning! Since he was holding his stay really well, you can reward then move him over, or release and reward jump 1, then reset. He looked a bit confused when you came back to move him over, and we donât want him to think it was his error.He and I were both questioning why he didnât get rewarded or get to keep going on rep 1 at :30. It looks like he got it right by coming to the correct side of 2 with the ok release and maybe you said in once too (even after a small question) and you praised⌠but didnât reward and went back to reset him to do it again. Even with the praise, that all says âyou are wrongâ – note how he was heading off to where you might have a reward, and then also note his big yawn when you sat him at the start line at :40. So even if he is incorrect on jump 2⌠keep going!
The rest went well! You can use more countermotion on the 4 jump by sending to the backside and moving forward past the exit wing more directly: that will help you clear his line sooner as you do the blind cross. The goal is that you and Sly are both on the takeoff side at the same time đ
Looking at the 4 Corner setup:
>Sequence 1 went well, Sequence 2 not as much. I think my setup made Sequence 2 harder than it had to be (tight spacing, into the cluttered space, I initially had a wingless jumpâŚ.) but I think that even if those things hadnât been part of it that this was still more difficult for us than Sequence 1 >
I agree that sequence 2 is harder! The setup is definitely âflatterâ making the jump on the other side of the tunnel a bit harder to see. There is also not as much acceleration into it, to help propel him out on the line (just the way the sequence is built – more verbal emphasis on this one for sure!)
Seq 1: This is going well – the jump verbal helps and you might not need your arm as far back as they were here . You can close your shoulders a little more forward when he is driving up the line, because it is easier to run and will keep him looking forward more.
Seq 2: get more reward out on the line – when he did get the jump on the other side of the tunnel, throw a reward. You placed it at the end which helps jumpstart the behavior. If you place the reward, you can also balance with cueing the tunnel (while the reward is placed in the same spot) and NOT the jump đ That way he is still responding to cues/learning the lines, which makes it easier to fade the lure of the placed toy.
Great job! Let me know how he does on the rest of the 4 Corners games!
Tracy
Hi again!
>Itâs SO much cooler today.>
Jealous. Still 10000 degrees here.
Opening:
I think she starting at 2 instead of the 1 jump on the map? The 1 jump here should be the blue jump. It adds a different lateral lead out opportunity đ
Backside on 4 at :28 and :47 (video 1) – good send and countermotion moving to 5. To help her take the jump, you can shift your connection to the landing spot and throw the reward to the landing spot (close to he entry wing) as you keep running. The timing of the throw is as soon as she arrives at the entry wing. You rewarded after she took the jump, but the timing of the reward to create the default behavior should be as soon as she gets to the entry wing. That will get her automatically looking at the bar and jumping it, rather than looking at you at all. And the placement of it close ot he entry wing will get her to not lookat you as much – the rewards here were closer to you and the reward at :47 was after she exited the jump.
On the 2nd video, it was hard to see her based on the camera angle but it looks like she went past 4 at :30 – that is where you can open your shoulders more for the serp and look back to (and point to) the landing side as you run forward. And the default games I posted above will help too! You ran through it with better open shoulders and connection at 1:06 and it looks like she got it!
Great job trying to layer the tunnel while she exits the weaves! I think the Go verbal was too general, and it is often associated with tunnels. Try a jump verbal! The out verbal at 1:29 helped! On thew 2nd video, the angle was great for seeing the weave exit. It looks like she had already decided to turn to you when she exited, so begin to cue the out-jump before she exits. Ideally, you are cueing what is next when she is at pole 8 or sooner. And yes, she should finish the weaves đ The concept is the same as cueing what is next after a running dog walk while the dog is on the up ramp – it tells them how to exit and they should finish the obstacle correctly đ She got it on the 2nd run on the 2nd video, but the first run is the most insightful so we want to be sure she is hearing her cues nice and early.
The FC on 9 was a little late on the first video but spot on at 1:39 on video 2! That created a really nice turn!
For the double tunnel stuff in the 2nd half of the course:
Don’t go as far up to 10-11 so you can control the 14-15 line more đ That created a bit too much acceleration after 10 and towards 14.It was hard to see where she went after 11-12 on video 2 – but you put up a threadle arm so she must have been wide. That is likely due to accelerating forward for 10 and 11, Hanging back and using connection and verbals will help make that line tighter.
And you can be closr to 14 and potentially use a brake arm, to get the turn to 15. Even though 15 is a backside, there is so much acceleration into 14 that she was wide and a brake arm (outside arm joining inside arm) will help tigthen that up.
Speaking of brake arms: You did a beautiful brake at at 1:49 on the 2nd video to get a turn to the 17 tunnel, while you hung out at the end of it to get the turn to 18. That worked really well! You went up a little too far to 17 on the first video which made it harder to get the exit, and ended up with the off course based on your line & cue at 1:45 on video 1. You can do a serp-to-blind on the exit of the 17 tunnel – the FC added one or two extra strides for her, and I think the serp-to-blind will be perfect!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>and I actually watched the first video before we tried again! #goals>
YOU ROCK!!!!
>Sheâs still bailing when she jumps towards me, so I would love some coaching on how to convince her of her job.>
Yes, she has some questions on that – it only showed up on the 6 jump here but I have ideas for you!
Video 1:
> I was focused on carrying on in the first one. We clearly need some distance weave work. >
Carrying on is an important skill! Nice job with that!
Loved your ‘mark’ cue moment at the beginning of the run at :24 on the first video. She was looking at you, then had to figure out where to look – and you helped by cueing it again. And she didn’t break the stay đ You probably don’t need ‘ok’ and the wrap verbal, because by the time she heard the wrap verbal she was already over jump 1.
I also loved the mark cue on the 2nd video – she was totally looking at 2 and when you didn’t release and asked for it again, she looked at 1. Super! Remember to mix in quiet praise and throwing rewards to her, to maintain this great behavior!
Found 2-3 nicely on video 1! On video 2, you were a little disconnected at :28 2-3 so she came off the line, you were cueing the left before she looked at 4. More connection on the 2nd rep helped support the line nicely!
Speaking of jump 4… the strategy on 3-4 directly impacts whether she takes 6 or not đ
On the first video, you don’t have time to rotate towards her for the 3-4 line and still get up to 6 to show her what you want (that might be why she went past it – you were accelerating til she was on the backside of it then closed your shoulder forward – more on that below).
On the 2nd video, you were still a bit too far up at 4 trying to control that line, which put you behind for the 6 backside. You stood still to get her to come in at :58 and before she did, you accelerated to 7 with a closed shoulder so she went past it. At 1:03 she got it, with decel from you. But that decel followed by the closed shoulder changed the line to 7 so she had a question there. A couple of visuals:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1JOwjNrrkMHp10Wau9t9B3q3ocD8A6idfEh0syydGLng/edit?usp=sharing
Strategically, you will want to support 3-4 from more of a distance so that when she exits 5, you are almost all the way to 6 đ Getting you closer so you can show serp info (because it is a serp) and also looking at the landing spot will help!
And what to do about getting her to take the bar:
a bunch of ideas! She might need more understanding on how to use her body to jump a bit sideways on those slices. You can revisit this game:building up to these:
And, for handling: these are serpentines, so serp shoulders (arm back, shoulders facing the bar until after she lands from it and looks at the next jump) will definitely help. When she is not coming in, your shoulders are closed forward which is what the cue to layer looks like.
So ideally you would get up there sooner (leaving 3-4) and as she rounds the entry of 6, you would have your serp arm back. For now, you can also look at the landing spot to help her come in (and drop a reward on the landing spot).
While you are doing all that, keep moving because we don’t want decel or stopping to become part of the cue.
In games package 3, we have other ways to make this skill a lot more independent so you don’t need to be as visible and perfect in your handling – the backside cue means ‘go to the other side AND take the jump’ I don’t think she knows that right now đ so we will teach her!
Here is how to get started. We want taking the jump to be a default behavior, so you can start with just 2 wings and a reward you can throw:
When she can do that, add a bar! Keep throwing the reward to the landing spot to build up the default of looking for the bar.
She had a little trouble finding the weaves – finding weaves on that line at that speed is hard for a relatively inexperienced dog so you can converge into them a bit as needed, and you can also isolate the line to the weaves with backchaining to help her with the skill:
ask hre to stay on the landing side of jump 10, and you can be on the other side of the tunnel so you are layering. Lead out a bit and release her forward to the weaves (then reward, of course :)) You can back chain progressively, putting her on the takeoff side of 10, then takeoff side of 9, etc. and rewarding of course đWhen running it in flow, you don’t have time to praise her after the weaves – it pulled her off of 12 đ I think her favorite praise on course is the cue for the next obstacle đ
Getting the line to the 15 jump was hard, she was accelerating straight out of the 14 tunnel:
The left verbal at :55 in video 1, and 1:27 in video 2 for 14 tunnel exit was good timing but not strong enough to override your forward motion to get a good turn. Physical cues will help – brake arms and running laterally, so she sees that before she enters and can set up the turn on the exit. Turning her to the right on 15 will make for a sweet line 15-16!
She came in over 16 (I figure this would be a hard jump for her if you are still running) but you held still – you can keep moving and open up your shoulders towards the jump to handle it like a serp.
Jump 17 to the end looked great, both times! Yay!
Great job! Let me know what you think! I see course 2 below and will be back shortly after watching the videos đ
Tracy
