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Hi again!
Another good session here!
>>His speed and engagement was killer this session… which probably has somewhat to do with the lack of distractions here.Yes! I noticed that too – rest break, plus no distractions, plus you were super connected: and he had an easier time engaging.
>>I did the opening… I didn’t realize until I reviewed my video on our break that idk which course I was trying to do but there’s so good parts here.
Ha! Yes, I was having a little trouble following it but there were a lot of good parts!!
These first reps had a lot of info and the only praise words were when you were actually delivering reinforcement. And with the rewards, you were engaged (no conversation about how it went) so he engaged nicely. You always praise with high energy before your get it cue, which is why he gets distracted by praise on course – he is not sure if you are delivering reinforcement or continuing.
For example, at 1:47 and 2:14, your verbals were check check yes tunnel – the yes is non-informational at that point (just marking the jump) and since it is often paired with reinforcement, it is not clear what to do next: come to da momma? take the tunnel? So try to just say – check check check tunnel – so he can drive out to the tunnel and not have to consider different options.
You were really connected on just about everything here, he was fast – when you restart the reps, you might want to take a moment or two to walk what you are going to do differently – there was a lot of start and stop here. Yes, he got rewarded but it tires the dog out and when there are distraction, it might play a role in why you sometimes lose him.
The only little disconnection moment happened at 1:53 – after the straight tunnel, your arm came up really high then you dropped it and looked forward, so he missed the 2nd jump after the tunnel there. You kept the arm down and had great connection at 2:20, and he found the line beautifully!
One thing to note, since we are looking at reinforcement and patterns: when he was great on certain lines, you were really excited when delivering the reinforcement. When there was an error at 1:53 (handling error) you had a very different energy on that reward there – he will read the different energy and potentially disengage – that lower energy reward might be what tells him that things have gone wrong.
>>I still haven’t mastered the verbal game with the 180 because he needs more info here and I’m just standing there.
Is dig dig dig the wrap cue? Then the left was the better option – but most of all, I think he needed motion cues before the first 180 jump at 2:24 and 3:04. You can try to run in then move away laterally so he turns on that first jump, or even do a spin. The name call helped and the left verbal helped but I think more motion will really support the line better (and don’t say yes because it pulled him off the line when he as heading to it when you said yes and tried to leave).
Same thoughts at 4:19 – you can move into it more – he slowed down when you were standing still on that 180.
>>I also had a really hard time sending him out to that far jump (which should be the teeter). We got the off course a couple times which wasn’t awful but it was a really hard line for me to let him land and push back out. I don’t often layer and he wasn’t reading that.
It was hard to see what was happening exactly because the camera was so far away – you can start closer to the straight tunnel so more motion can propel him out away to the line so you can add the layer? Layering is getting popular as a challenge on course, so we can definitely keep working it.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Gosh I wish I could have been there 😭. I’m so jealous because I saw you had a long sleeve shirt on
Yes, the mornings were a little chilly then it got to sunny and mid-70s, low humidity. It was really nice!
>>So this set up was perfect because it forced me to stop and reward more! Yay! I was still having some reinforcement issues. I’m trying to be upbeat and positive about him taking the toy but there’s still a disconnect. You’ve mentioned that I have a tendency to just hand it to him, but when he’s happy I do tend to kind of do that too but he views engages in it.
I watched this mainly to look at the reinforcement – there are some definite differences and I think the more we sort out the reinforcement, the better things will be in the handling too.
One biggie that I am bugging everyone about: just give info on course (directionals, obstacle names, reward markers) and don’t use big praise or yes words. The praise/yes moments stop the flow of info and cause errors, like dropping the bar on 3 at the beginning and also after the RDW or coming off lines because it is distracting/not informational, and a lot of our dogs perceive that YES! as a come get your reward marker – and then something goes wrong, and he knows it, and he deflates a little. So – just the facts on course! No praise til the podium 🙂
When you tried to turn to the slice on the 2nd rep at 3 but didn’t quite get it (I think that is what you wanted) and you just carried on, giving info, he was happy to engage on the good boy get it while you kept connected and kept moving.
A little pattern I see her that could also have an impact on the reinforcement: when you stop moving and present it and also say something conversational like “that was better” – he disengages. That happened a couple of times, like after the backside at 1:59: you said “better” and tossed it away. And also at around 2:56: presented the toy then he drove to it, then you said ‘that was better’ and he disengaged. So keep moving and praising and having him chase the toy – don’t mentally disengage in that moment, because I think he is reading that and disengaging. And I think when he disengaged after the RDW when you presented the toy, there might have been a food distraction issue? Looks like food was either in your hand or your pocket so he turned down the toy in favor of getting the food. If he struggles to tug when there are cookies right there, you can either only have food with you, or only have the toy, not both (for now). You had more engagement at the very end – you were engage, he was engaged… do you remember if there was food present there or not?
And keep track of when the disengagement happens: it could also be later in the training session, which would mean changing reinforcement more often or even keeping sessions shorter. I know 3 minutes sounds short, but it is a long time: it totals out to be the same as 6 standard runs and 7 or 8 jumpers runs!
And good job working on the tunnel when the pool was *right there* – that is a pretty massive distraction!!! He did well working through it and you were very engaging with the frisbee.
The connection went well and the handling is looking good – a lot of it is giving more directionals and leaving sooner, like that line after the a-frame – as soon as he commits to the frame, leave him to do it independently so you can get up the line to handle the line after it.
>>The area from Aframe 8-10 was crunchy for me. Initially I was like ima’ serp this bitch… but then I ended up screaming because I thought we were going to collide. He really is so considerate of me. Then I wanted to keep the slice so tried a spin. He went to the backside but understood it wasn’t the other jump. I did the wrap last. I’d love your guidance on how best to handle that space.>>
I like your gut instinct to serp it. Send to the tunnel and leave so he exits the tunnel to the frame with you already ahead, then you can get the serp there much more easily. Lots of trust and independence needed on that line 🙂
>>Also, I killed my time management here. First run we stopped before the three minute timer, and the second turn was super short with just the two DW sequences because a thunderstorm came up OUT OF THE BLUE.>>
Yay!!! Timing the session was great and Mother Nature was happy to assist with a thunderstorm LOL!
I see the next course below: nice work here! Onwards to the next one!
Tracy
Hi!
>>Teeter was amazing at sotc last weekend. Thought she might bounce off one she was going so fast but she rocked back and stuck on.>>
Wow! Good girl!!!!
>>I do need to work on entering the ring, she is higher than a kite once she sees the dog running before us. Wondering if teaching her to tug on leash will help, but tugging really elevates her.
Tugging on the leash with tricks mixed in to go back and forth between play and thinking can help. And doing the cookie toss game outside the ring can help keep her from getting too high or watching: you can drop the cookies on your feet rather than toss off to the side.
Sequence 2: Really nice work! She was flying! And you really had strong connection, which really helps a lot 🙂
A couple of little details to smooth some things out:
Turn sooner on jump 2, she went a little straight and turned after landing because you hadn’t really turned before takeoff.
On the 4 jump – the post turn can totally work nicely for her, she reads it well – but send and go so she sees the next line before she lands and can power to it without watching you. You turned with her there so she looked up at you as she landed.Speaking of turning with her: at :14, you turned with her at 7 and because you ran up there and did a gentle shoulder turn, she looked at the off course jump at :15. When she lands from from 6, send and leave! That will set you up for a FC or BC 8-9 which will be faster and clearer: you were decelerating and waiting to set up a threadle, which is a little slower and sets up a rear cross on the tunnel entry – so she exits looking at you a little to see if there was a turn or not. The Go cue came after she exited, so be sure to start it before she enters especially after a rear cross on the entry.
Sequence 2:
Definitely move sooner after the in in – as soon as she is approaching the wing, start to move but stay super connected, that will help remind her to turn to the jump.
Good timing of your push cue at the entry of the tunnel, it helped propel her out to the backside of 5!
She dropped the bar of 7 at :43 – you were decelerating so she was collecting trying to figure out what was next and didn’t quite get it done. You can accelerate through that line rather than decel for the tur, which will also allow you to get the FC for the tunnel exit start before she enters (and finished before she exits). The other way to tighten up the tunnel exit at :46 is to do a blind cross so the cross is finished and reconnected before she exits. (Plus a verbal, I don’t think you cued a turn there).I like the spin on the 10 jump at the end! You can rotate your feet sooner and as soon as she passes your feet, do the blind and leave – that way you can be reconnected sooner. The reconnection was a step or two late, so she looked at you when she landed from 10, and considered not taking 11. The earlier reconnection will support the line.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there! Nice work with both dogs – you were really connected and that really helped! And a lot of what you mentioned that you would smooth out matches what I saw too. Here are some thoughts:
Demi’s runs on Seq 2: – yes, it was really nice!
On the opening 1-2-3, you can move more on the opening and not stand still to send to 2 – that will make to even smoother and faster.
4-5 had nice collection! You mentioned using more decel but I think her turn was good – any tighter would be slower and she seemed to have no questions. It is going to be a little easier for you to get a straight exit if you don’t RC the tunnel, try to do the spin at 4 and get her on your right side to send to the tunnel. The other reason to do the spin is that when you do a FC on 4 to get her on your left, you end up rear crossing the tunnel. Rear crossing the tunnel entry causes her to look at you on the exit (because the RC is a turn cue) rather than continue straight to 6.At :20 on the FC to the tunnel at the end – start the FC sooner as you mentioned , but a blind will be easier and quicker for both of you! Plus don’t run towards her at the jump line as much as it pushes her to the center of the bar so she turned after she landed – keep running down the line there more towards the tunnel. I don’t agree that the threadle (tandem) you did with Wilson would be better, because it would cause her to look at you at the tunnel exit because it causes you to rear cross the tunnel.
Same thoughts with Wilson on the opening line about moving into it more, and also doing a spin at 4 rather than FC 4 then rear cross the tunnel.
The close close (threadley tandem) to the tunnel worked well, just call him and start the cues sooner – you started on landing and that is late. Your position was good but he needs to hear the verbals starting before takeoff to 8. However, the threadle to the tunnel 9 there creates a rear cross on the tunnel entry plus it puts you behind: so he looked at you on the exit. That can cause problems on other lines (jumping or off courses or refusals) on bigger courses, so try to stay ahead (with a FC or BC) so you can keep him looking straightCourse 3 with Demi:
you did a Forced Front on the 2 jump which is great on the first run and in in in threadle on the 2nd run. Both looked good – I felt you left sooner with in in threadle cue (probably easier to leave sooner because you don’t have to rotate). I timed it and the threadle was faster! She looked like she had no questions here about taking the jump as you moved through it. One detail on the lead out: try to line her up on a slice for 1 so she is facing the entry to the backside at 1:05 rather than facing the wrong side of 2 and having to turn to find the backside.You call her name a lot 🙂 For example, you call her name after tunnel 4 when you will really want to be using your backside cue. And it bit you at 1:15 on the first run from 6-7: you called her hard “DEMI!” and turned your shoulders so she came off the line. Stay connected, keep moving, tell her to jump: and don’t call her name 🙂 You did not call her name on the 2nd run and she found 7 nicely! But then you decelerated sharply and flung your arm up high, so the bar came down. That is a spot to stay connected and keep moving, just using jump or turn verbals.
Do a blind on the tunnel exit instead of a FC, it will be faster and easier for you and her – at 1:47 you were trying to finish the rotation and she was already out of the tunnel. The BC before she enters will be fully finished before she exits.
You can also do a spin on the 10 jump to set the turn to 11 instead of the full post turn: the full post turn faces her towards the tunnel so she jumps long (and dropped the bar on the 2nd run) and it delays you from getting up the next line.This sequence also ran well with Wilson – you kept moving smoothly through the lines! The in in worked well in the opening and you were able to then nicely set up the 5-6-7 lines (don’t call his name, not even quietly LOL!) He sent better to the tunnel plus I think he is not quite as fast as Demi, so the FC after 8 finished sooner – but that is a good spot to call his name and start the rotation before he enters (2:14). The ending line looked good – you decelerated to help with 10 to 11, so it would be interesting to see how he does with the spin there so you can leave sooner and not have to help set the line.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Forward:
•Go on! (keep going in a line over the next obstacles straight ahead. Sounds more like gwan)
•Name of obstacle as obstacle cues (saw, tunnel, over, walk-it, frame, table, hoop, etc.)
•Weave (to look for entrance), then weevweevweev while weaving to reinforce staying in poles.
•Bottom (2o2o position for all 3 contacts). Saving “hit it” if we run into an issue somewhere
•Over (go forward and take jump)>>These are good! For the ‘over’ cue – does this also imply a slight collection, a gentle turn? It does when I use that type of cue, and it is a nice balance to the gwan versus the tight turns.
>>Distance/discrimination:
•Get out! (Take obstacle that is not on straight path such as a pin wheel, layered obstacle, gamble, etc.)
•Here (come to obstacle near me, not necessarily one that is “straight ahead”)
•Far (go to far end of tunnel, even if can’t see entry)>>These will come in handy for gambles and for one big lines in big yardage courses!
>>Various Turns:
•Turn (on rear cross, turn in opposite direction from way we had been heading)
•Back (go to the back of the jump, take it while turning toward me
•Wrap (go forward over jump and come back to me on same side as sent)
•In-In (use in threadle situation as well as instead of forced front cross to tell dog to come to the back side of the jump rather than over the front, then to turn and jump over the jump in a slice)>>Also good! You have this one liste below:
•Flick (for back/360 wrap around wing of jump we are passing)And I think it belongs with these – is it a threadle wrap so she starts between you and the wing, or a backside push wrap so she is on the outside of you? As agility continues to evolve, you will likely need a verbal for each – the push circle wrap takes priority right now, and then the threadle wrap can be added later.
>>Others:
•Sit/Wait (Start line)
•With me (VERY useful for Snooker, and in tight situations. Means come to my side and move with me until given a different cue)
•Around (wings, barrel in NADAC)
•Down (table)
•Loose noose (exit behavior to put head through slip lead noose so we can Go Get Cookies!!)>>Good ones!
>>Also, I have been working (for a while, it’s a work in progress) at getting my verbals out earlier, especially when the dog is in a tunnel and can’t get a visual cue from me. And, as you’ve seen in videos, I use lots of praise words and noises. 😉>>
One thing I am noticing as the dogs mature is that the praise was working when they were babies but now it is delaying the info, so they either come off lines or look at us too much. We will keep an eye on how Keiko feels about it, because at some point you might have to eliminate the praise in favor of giving her faster/sooner info on course, especially when she is going at flying squirrel speed 🙂
>>You’ll notice a lack of “left” and “right” or something similar. Keiko and I have done many exercises and sessions with you using “lef-lef” and “rye-rye”. However, I have never really used this type of directional cue with any of my dogs in trials because I can’t be sure to figure out the direction they need to be turning when we’re running, so the simple “turn” cue has served me well. If you’ve got some tricks about being able to tell left from right in the stress/excitement of a trial run, I’d love to hear them.>>
I practiced them, mentally and not with the dogs, pretty obsessively until they were second nature. When talking about the sequence, instead of saying something like “the jump at 3”, I would say “the left at 3”. And in training, I would take a decent amount of time to walk the course and practice the left and right to have them planned and ready and rehearsed – because yes, it is way too hard to figure it out while the dog is running, but if the verbal is already in my mouth and brain, then it becomes very easy to g[get out while running 🙂 We will be adding more of that rehearsal in coming weeks here 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> I know she is capable of doing the things they are doing in that class, BUT I don’t know that she’d do them in such a new and different environment. I have no problem putting her in a class that’s “too easy” agility-wise, but would probably turn out to be somewhat challenging from her pandemic perspective.
Yes, that is a great idea: put her in a really simple sequencing class so she is not challenged but the agility (fast and fun speed circles or something like that) but instead she can sort through the new environment!
T
Hi!
>>Yes I plan on going to PA next weekend. I am hoping Waldo will be ready. I was supposed to pick up the RV last week but not quite ready… fingers crossed. We have been playing games at home, it would be nice to see if I can play them in a new location. Better fine my ear plugs LOL>>
Great! We can play some games with the dogs. What type of RV is Waldo?
>>I am super happy with the teeter performance. I really did not have to go to the end of the teeter but I wanted to see that he met criteria.
Holy cow his teeter looked GREAT here!!! Yay Watson!!!!!!
>>The struggle with this section was the push and the serp. I think I need to open up my shoulders a bit more. I was trying to show the tight turn at the end of the serp. Do you just use a verbal here? He usually serps quite well so I was surprised we missed this.>>
Yes, that was the only hard part for him. On the backside (:02) – keep your dog side arm (right arm) pointing all the way back to his nose and look him very directly in the eyes for the push until you see him heading around the backside. That will get your upper body facing the backside line and he will read the cue better.
For the serp (ike at :11) – yes, I agree that opening your shoulders more will help – stop with him right at the teeter (don’t run past it) and then send to th jump and tunnel so you can be another 2 or 3 steps ahead – then really open up your shoulders and make a big eye contact – and keep moving across the bar after the tunnel to get the serp. It is a hard serp so the further ahead you are, the more you can show the line. Then when you get there and get him turned (like at :27) keep the connection and shoulders open til he takes the next jump: at :27 you got him turned but then pointed forward to the jump with your right arm so he slipped right past it.
>>PS I just love this course and am so happy I took the time to set it up. It has everything I wanted to tackle this summer in it. Are you a minder reader? How did you know?>>
Ha! We will call it a happy accident 🙂 Glad it was fun, he looked great!
TracyHi –
It is hard to tell why there would be a ‘no run’ exactly but it could have something to do with time of day, energy depletion, etc. The GP was the 4th run, and the standard was the 3rd run – it is quite possible that he only has 2 runs in the gas tank, or needs a meal at some point during the day – or is not yet ready to fade out the NFC/FEO element (the dogs know for sure when it is not FEO :)) For now, keep practicing sometimes working at home or classes or seminars with some full runs (with contacts – both GP and standard have contacts) with the reward behind him at the start and nothing in your hands. And, limit how many trial runs he does – and track when and what type of runs are the no run moments to see if a pattern emerges.T
Hi! Sorry for any confusion! A tunnel threadle (for me :)) is when the dog is on a line facing an obvious tunnel entry and we have to pull the dog in to take the non-obvious entry, closer to us. I have added a separate verbal for that scenario, for when I can’t be ahead or when there are jumps nearby so the dogs know I am indicating the tunnel and not a jump.
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the update! I think that you made a series of good choices: – dropping height back to 12 when the weather went wonky, choosing to NOT run when he was not ready for it, and doing some pattern game to get him back to a the right head space. So I call it a victory! The run would have been fun but not nearly as meaningful as the other things you accomplished in terms of teaching him to handle the trial environment. I call it a win!!! When is your next trial adventure?
TracyHi! Hope he is feeling better, he looked good here! Bummer about the rain but this was a clever setup. He seemed to do well finding the jumps and also, the treat huggers were easy for him to grab! Yay! And using 2 worked out really well. So hopefully you can get this going outside too but you can also do this on one jump indoors – using one jump can allow you to add more distance away from it, so you can work on the lazy game and also sends to the jump.
Nice work! Fingers crossed for nice weather!
TracyAlways great to see you here! Cabo is turning out to be a superstar 🙂 Post some video so we can see the little guy in action!
Tracy
Hi there!
Nice work on the mountain climbers, I love your setup! Clever!!! Question: to teach the down at the end, did you use a target or did you shape it/wait for her to offer it? She is doing it but I would like to see if we can get her to drive to it. She is doing a great job moving up the board, but knowing how fast she goes: if we make the down more of a ‘get there fast’ destination, then you can get more drive across the board. There are a lot of ways to do that. For my 4on dogs, I use a target right at the very edge of the board and they run up to it and put their front feet up on it (then lie down for her :)) My target was an old mask taped to the end of the board LOL! If you are already working a target, let me know and we can play with getting her to drive even more to it 🙂Great job on the timing game!!! The fallout (in a really good way) is that you were soooooo connected, it was perfect 🙂 On the pinwheels at the beginning – lovely connection and timing. You can add challenge by spreading it out and that way you will have to run harder AND be connected AND have great timing 🙂
I agree with your assessment of the wraps – a little question on the first one, then the others were great. You can start your wrap cue as you start to decelerate as she lands from the middle jump – you were decelerating at the right time, but started the verbal cue when you started to rotate (which is a little late). So start the verbal as you decelerate to make it perfect. This is also a game you can spread out to add more distance – she will enjoy seeing you run harder LOL! And that is a good challenge for the timing of your deceleration into the wraps. I am thrilled with your connection, though, keep it up!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! She did really well here. She definitely noticed the tip so keep it at this level fo a few more sessions til she is really driving to the end. You can keep moving with her: she did a lot better when you were ahead of her 🙂 The other thing I suggest is going to insanely high value treats – rather than ‘normal’ goodies, you can use a spoonful of peanut butter or cream cheese or something that will make her head explode from happiness LOL!!! Just a few reps a day, every day or every other day, and she will running to the end like a wild woman. And then… we add a little more tip, just a tiny bit, but not til she is really comfy here at this level of tip.
Great job! Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
Yes, there is always a safe place here to post video, even when it is not the best of sessions. We all are on the same adventure and being able to sort it through together makes the outcome better. I consider it a collaborative process. Based on what you said: I wonder if he is blowing himself out tugging with Sole? Meaning: the big party is with her and then he is over it as a reinforcement when you want to join the party. I let me dogs play with each other all the time, but not tug with each other: that is reserved to be my party with the dog 🙂
His teeter looks GREAT!!! Yes, the down is slow to happen… just a worm in your ear: if he continues to say “this down thing doesn’t really make sense” then you can shift to a nice weight shifted 4on at the very end that he is giving you 🙂 Collaborative process and all, right? I don’t want to fight with him in the trial ring about down or no down – if the teeter itself looks fabulous like that. Food for thought!
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
