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Good morning!
>not sure why this posted twice, sorry!>
Ha! It was a good session so the internet wanted me to see it twice 🙂
When she was not turning away at the beginning, part of the cue was a little too early:
What was happening was your lower body was turning into her before your upper body (hands) cued her to turn away. So she kind of stopped because she was not sure where to be.
You can see it at :03 and :18 when your outside leg & lower body were stepping towards the new line but she hadn’t had a chance to get past you yet to lock onto the turn away hand.
Compare to :33 & :42 and after that- the cue hand had already started the cue and she was past your feet enough, so your outside leg stepping supported it rather than blocked the turn away. Super!!!
> I’m not sure where to place the prop so it’s in her view lol! >
Your prop placement is good! She isn’t hitting the prop because she is looking at the cookie hand in front of her nose, and doesn’t know that you want her to hit it 🙂 Easy fix! Try the turn away with empty hands (closed like you have an air cookie in them :)) and after the turn away, keep moving but lift the cookie hand up so it is not in front of her nose. Then she will realize the prop is there and will hit it. It might take a rep or two because she is used to following your hand, but she has a lot of prop value and will sort it out. You can stay next to the prop at first but then I htink you can add back your movement really quickly when she starts hitting it.
Great job!!
Tracy
Hi! All of these games are looking really good!
The barrel wrapping backwards sending is going really well! You were great about starting each side with a simple forward send and when he said he could do that, you moved to the backwards sending. Your connection was spot on – looking behind you as you move away really supported his commitment. Perfect! You can try adding more distance away from the barrel on your sends which will also allow you to move the other direction sooner.
>Rear crosses. I think I get what you mean. I tried a couple more today to show you. I knew this would be a harder one for us thus why I picked it to start on sooner.>
Nailed it!
The rear crosses were strong too – excellent job placing the treat then hustling to get ahead of him on the new side. He was 100% sure about where to go after the first rep – the cookie had a weird bounce on the first rep but you still got the RC. All of the other reps were lovely!> Sure my husband thinks I am goofy walking around the family room next to that sectional pretending to do a RC 🤣
>HA!!! I am sure he understands and supports your dog sport love and he doesn’t judge you for rear cross practices in the family room 🙂
Tandem turns – you were actually a shade too early on the first few reps (I know, we humans are almost never too early LOL!) What was happening was you were turning him as he was passing the prop but before3 he got close to you, so he was migrating to the prop more than he was driving to your hands.
On the second side, the cues were correctly later 🙂 You made sure he was locked onto your hands and turned away after he passed the prop and when he was closer to your hands – perfect! That set things up beautifully, so use that same timing on the original side too.>I will try the parallel path with wings for sure. I have a smaller narrow wing I could use in the basement too. Should I try that?>
Yes! That will give you more room to add challenges. And you can take it outside if/when the weather cooperates.
>Running contacts. I think I get how with the toy. I will try it and show you.>>
Keep me posted on how he does. Great job here!!
TracyGood morning!
>I feel like I was really sloppy with this. It feels awkward at first. >
I don’t think you were sloppy at all! You were really focusing on mechanics – and yes, it probably did feel weird 🙂 But wow, it created lovely connection on the exits so he was SUPER tight on the lines.
On the first rep and at :46, yo were migrating into his line and landing spot so I think he was trying not to land on you when he went around the jump. That is much appreciated 🙂 so reward him anyway because this cue does ask for him to be in a very specific spot near you on a tight line.
When you were further ahead/released later, he drove directly to the line on both the blinds and the fronts. So nice!!! The camera angle really showed the gorgeous connection especially on the exits of the FCs. Love it! The blinds also looked lovely.
Since this went so well, the next step is to add more speed with the wing wrap to start. Be sure to give yourself a head start so you can show him the line and the exit line arm. And if something goes awry 😂 reward him anyway because he is working really hard to read the cues.
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
She strike a pose game with the toy went really well!!! It took her a moment on the first rep to see what you wanted then she was all in 🙂 No question when you switched sides – she is happy to do it in both directions. SUPER!!!
Onwards to the next steps where we begin to ge the reward to the floor. You can dangle the toy so it is fully extended and maybe one end is touching the floor. If she is happy with that, you can place it on the floor entirely. And you can use an empty food bowl as the reward target too.
Good job with the tunnel threadles!! She had a question on the first rep – you answered it then she knew what to do. Super!
Also, she thinks the big “yay!” Is the reward marker to come to you, so you made a great adjustment to delay it so she would continue through the tunnel. You can also say “get it” before you say the praise, which should help her continue through it without any questions about where the reward is.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
The serp with the toy here went great – she was pretty quick to bring it back even though she was feeling spicy 🙂 The long tug moments after she brought it back will help her bring it back faster, and you can trade for a second toy too.
>She has a problem working for a toy when she feels food is also an option>
That is hard for a lot of dogs at this stage. You can mix in one boring dull cookie and then do the rest of the session with a crazy high value toy. Trying it outside will also allow you both to run around more, so you can really drag a long toy for her to chase and grab, to get her mind off the cookie 🙂
Her stay does look wonderful! I hear good things about Nikki’s course! You can also use this stay to set up different angles of approach for your serp game, which means you don’t need a cookie start as much (so there is less back and forth between the toy and cookie for now).
You can take the stay outdoors because I think you get more explosiveness on the release (she doesn’t want to slip here). Plus that is a good way to bring the stay to new places.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
The raised mat looked great! He totally has value for it 🙂 And sitting made it less dependent on your movement. You can have it maybe one foot further away from you, so you have more room to toss the rewards off to the side. You don’t need a target verbal at this point, you can let him offer (I am sure he will!)
I think you were nailing the timing of the ‘yes’ for the last foot. Yay!
Looking at the outdoor video: He showed lovely value here too! You can elevate it here too like you did for the indoor session. Do I remember correctly that you have a manners minder/treat n train? You can add that about 10 feet past the mat, and use it as the reward going that direction for when he gets his last rear foot on the mat. That will keep hum looking forward and not at you. Then you can either bring him back with a tug toy to start again going towards the manners minder, or you can use an empty food bowl o the other side to toss the treat to for going across the mat. If you don’t have a manner minder, you can use 2 food bowls 🙂 The goal is to keep him looking ahead.
The next steps on these is to put it into the general training ‘rotation’ to revisit it once a week or so. You can move it further away, you can be standing, you can add toy play, you can take it somewhere new, you can apply the stealth self-control games to it 🙂 The running dog walk training doesn’t get real until he is closer to a year old, so no rush to add more to this. He won’t really be in his adult body and understand his adult coordination til he is closer to a year, so it is better to take your time. When he is old enough, it will be smooth and straightforward to teach the rest of the behavior 🙂
Parallel path – Bandit definitely has value for the jump here too! Super!! Since this went so well, a couple of next steps:
Because keeping the pups looking ahead is a primary goal on a lot of these games, you do 2 things to help him not looking at you:
– mark with a ‘get it’ which means to look ahead for the cookie. The ‘yes’ gets him looking at you and the get it will get more forward focus
– mark and throw when you see commitment to the jump, rather than when he arrives at the jump. When he arrives at the jump, he looks at you (because there is nothing else to look at :)) but if you mark and throw when he is looking forward to the jump and before he gets to it, you will see even more looking forward.You can also get ahead of him by starting to walk forward again while he is still eating his reward. Or, you can throw the reward and stay more and more laterally away from the jump, to see if he can find it with a lot of lateral distance.
Great job here! He is so fun and learns so fast!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>It’s hard for me to move my arms across my body due to my neck issues. >
You can totally experiment with what works best and with what both of you can see! It might be a turn at the waist and not a big arm movement, so your neck doesn’t get mad about it.
>The move is similar to how I actually run my serps with an inside arm across my body.>
There is a difference that helps the dog know which one: the serp arm is across your body, with your serp hand held up high on the shoulder nearer to the dog. This can be similar to a threadle arm if you use the opposite arm for that too. The get out arm is not across the body at all – it is extended away from it, pointing ahead to the obstacle
For a visual: here is a video that describes the differences and has visual. The discussion of the threadle arm here is the same as a serp arm when using the opposite arm. It starts at 2:39 –
> Is this similar to what we used to call a reverse flow pivot/false turn?>
The false turn/RFP was a threadle cue, where we used the opposite arm AND rotated fully towards the dog to get them to come in, then we rotated back out to the next line. The false turns/RFPs can still sometimes be useful on super tight threadles on Premier courses but in general we try to keep your feet facing the direction you want to keep running towards.
>It’s been over a year since I’ve been at a high level class or trial. I feel like I’ve forgotten what they are like.>
No worries! The good news is that things are getting more streamlined and simplified so you don’t have to remember a lot of fancy moves 🙂
>I have no idea what to do for slice. She can play the game in new environments and around other dogs working or running agility, even with other dogs running in a big side by side pen. >
What a good girlie!!!!!!! That is fantastic!
Sport slices can be something like hearing someone yelling TUNNEL TUNNEL TUNNEL and a dog running through a tunnel, or barking dogs (excitement barking or alarm barking).
You can also add the existing slices that she can do, to different behaviors. Using something she is good at, add a slice or two! This can be a cone wrap, for example, or foot targeting.
And it is something to keep revisiting throughout adolescence. Adolescence is challenging for the pups so we want to keep these skills fresh and growing 🙂
>The only thing that might be a distraction would be my husband treating the other dogs but it doesn’t seem fair to ask that much of her yet. >
I agree, it is a huge ask BUT you can slice it 🙂 because it is an incredible training opportunity. Is there a time when your husband goes to get the treats and all the dogs know it and get excited? You can have the other dogs in a different room and send hubby to get the treats while you play with Rou.
Or you can have her in a different room, while hubby gives treats to one dog in a less exciting way.
And part of her reward can be released to go get her apple or banana from him 🙂
I use group training like this ALL the time in the house, breaking it down into little pieces. Most recently, I solidified a retrieve with my 2 year old dog – he couldn’t do it with distractions (would drop the object on the way back to me when the environment was hard) so I had him retrieve through a group of my other dogs. And if he dropped it, my 3 year old dog always picked it up and brought it to me (and got the reward). Two sessions of that and now he no longer drops it at home or in competition 🙂 The caveat of course is that the dogs all get along and there is no inter-dog tension or fighting because that would be too much.
She was CRACKING ME UP with her foot smacks on the bowl at the beginning. It was almost like she forgot about the bowl then smacked it hard to make a point LOL!!! SO FUNNY!
This was a strong session: the bowl plus the mat provided a clear ‘place to be’.
When you were remaining in front of her, you can add more angles of the cookie throw so it is almost behind you – that way she can approach the bowl fro the side and pivot more back to in front of you.
Since you are using the mat, I think the best use of it was at :25 where you stepped off to the side the pivoted her back to the position on the mat. That was excellent!!!! You can keep the mat as the goal and change your position to pivot to it, rather than have her on it and pivot off of it (for now).
The footing (concrete?) was actually a little slippery so that might have restricted her movement a bit. You can take this game to grass which should provide better footing for her. It might take her an extra moment to find the treat, but that is fine – you can wait the extra moment or you can even have empty food bowls that you toss the treat into. She will recognize the bowls from those early wrapping games 🙂
Stays are going well! Because she did well here, you can move ahead to the next steps:
Rather than have her facing you on the platform, you can line her up at your side then walk away forward instead of backwards.
>I noticed when I ask her to sit I also lean forward and step with a foot. That’s not part of the cue>
Lining her up at your side will also take out the leaning/stepping as part of the cue. 🙂
Then when she can do this at your side, with the platform – let’s fade the platform. The quicker you can get it out of the picture, the more you can generalize the stays into start line stuff. For the first couple of stays without it, reward early and often 🙂 But then you will easily be able to extend the duration as you move away.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
The reverse retrieves are looking good!
She is driving back to you super well – until you turn to face her, then she does a drive-by. Perhaps she is avoiding being ‘caught’ so we can adjust the mechanics to get her bringing it back without a drive bye 🙂
Two ideas for that:
When you presented the 2nd toy, she did not do a drive by so you can run away and don’t face her or reach for the toy she has. Instead, when she is almost at you with the toy, you can whip out the 2nd toy (or a treat!) for a trade party without reaching for the first toy.
You can add in reaching for the first toy without facing her: check out your body language on the last rep around 2:15 (after she was coughing up the cookie :)) You were sideways (not facing her) and really inviting but not reaching for the toy at all. She brought it all the way to you so all you had to do was take it and play tug. Super!!
One other suggestion: you can start with a sit but be sure to release it with a release word or with a ‘get it’ marker for the toy, just to maintain the stay criteria 🙂
Tunnel threadles are going really well too and she is definitely liking the tunnel 😂 Is your verbal cue ‘dot dot dot’? Love it! Clever!
You can line her up with a treat – she might have been diving back into the tunnel as a way to avoid being pulled into position by her collar, so calling her to your hand, lining her up with a cookie lure, than taking her collar will smother that out.
>Ingy’s getting the threadles until about 80% of the way down and then she gets confused.>
Yes – when she could see the other end of the tunnel and was right next to the magical treat robot, she was not entirely sure about what to do.
However – she is able to get the tunnel threadle from really far away so I call this a big win!!!! And we will revisit finding the threadle entry with her at the exit but for now, you can go to the double whammy game which also adds your motion. Your motion will help clarify that for her too.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
She is doing really well finding the jump with the lateral lead outs: holding the stay perfectly and committing with no questions. I love how she does NOT move her feet in the stay, even with you being pretty lateral. Super!!
Two thing to add:
Continue moving the wing you are leading out to further and further away, she seemed to have no questions about that.
You can also begin asking her for forward focus on the jump, where she looks at the jump while holding the stay, when you cue it. I cue it by leading out, slowly raising my hand to point towards it… then waiting. Some folks also use a verbal cue, such as ‘look’. When she flicks an eyeball towards the jump: release and reward 🙂
She might do that immediately! Or she might stare at you for hours on end LOL!! So if she stares at you and doesn’t look at the jump, we can use the toy: place the toyon the landing side of the jump, closer to the wing she is turning towards. She is likely to look forward when the toy is there, and that can jump start the behavior. When she does that, we can fade out the toy by tucking it behind the wing on the landing side then taking it out altogether.
The backside challenges went great here! You able to get her to find the backside while you were pretty far across the bar! NICE!!!!
For the serp lines on the backside:
>I need to be better at dropping the toy/ saying her chase it cue earlier >
Yes, she did great when you were pretty early. Two other things that will help her commit as you move through the serp and into the exit wing more:
– Instead of looking at her as she comes to the backside, shift your gaze to look at the landing spot. And point to it with the dog side hand (your left hand on these reps). That will help indicate where you want her to be, then you can begin to toss the toy as a reward for commitment.
– Keeping your motion steady for now will help too. On the reps where she almost went past the wing, you were moving at a walk up the backside line and then when she was heading to the backside, you started to go faster. That transition into acceleration also caused her to accelerate and potentially miss the jump if you hadn’t gotten the toy in. Compare that to when you were in the same steady motion the whole time: when there was no acceleration, she did really well looking for the bar and turning to it immediately!You can keep moving further and further across the bar to see if she can find the entry wing with you nearer to the exit wing. And you can add the advanced game where you do a FC on the landing side then she can have the tunnel 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>yes he stayed….only because no leaves were blowing or flying bird shadows passing by…he would have totally been out of there and also totally deaf…Once he starts the chase he does NOT respond to anything I say to him.>
I chalk that up to lack of experience working outside. Because he is overall a great little dog, you can start each session with a pattern game to help focus him when the environment is challenging. And throughout the day, on potty walks, you can bring treats t reward focus – that will help turn the engagement more towards you and less towards the environment.
>Did new games get posted? I didn’t see anything yesterday when I looked.>
Week 8 is the last week in this class. Only MaxPup 1 has 12 weeks, the rest of the classes are more civilized in length LOL! MaxPup 3 is posted, though – this is where it gets really fun!!!
Looking at the video:
I think you did a great job of getting the reps in, fast and snappy! He is looking at the toy really well!! I agree, he nailed it on that last rep 🙂Your session structure of adding in the wing/bar and moving the toy around was super good too – totally on the right track for getting the forward focus. And if you want faster progress on the skill, you can do it indoors but overall, the progress is strong!
I totally see what you mean about him looking away and almost glazing over when the environment becomes obvious – it is happening in that moment when you take the toy to set him up in the stay. He is being a good boy, holding the stay, releasing to the toy…. But he definitely has trouble disengaging from the environment. His teenage brain is on overload!!
So we need to work on the moments when the toy is not in his mouth and when he is not running towards it. I think increased food value might do the trick to jump start that.
What type of treats are you using? The toy works great when he is engaged with it, but more enticing treats can help in the lineup moment. I want to find that most mind-blowing treats that won’t upset his GI system. For example, a hungry poodle plus a couple of chunks of steak or meatball might make all the difference: high value and different from the norm.
An example: I took my 10 month old dog to his first group class on Tuesday. I had his favorite tugs, and also meatballs and cheddar cheese 🙂 He was perfect (because, meatballs and cheddar cheese LOL). Another dog in the class kept chasing my dog – and it was because that owner had low value treats for the context. I think she had Ziwi Peak which, theoretically, is a high value treat (and super expensive LOL!!). But it was not enough for the situation. So I handed her a meatball… and that dog was completely focused for the rest of the night.
So to get him engaged outside, short blasts with high value treats can get him over the hump. And small quantities/short sessions for now so we don’t upset his GI. I tend to mix in the cheddar, meatballs etc (I have also used rotisserie chicken, yum yum!) with other treats so the regular treats pick up the delicious smells and juices but it is easier on the GI. My dogs don’t have GI issues but I do I remember correctly that sometimes Brioche does? If he doesn’t – cool! Less to worry about when trying crazy high value food.
The high value food is not forever – it is just a way of fighting fire with fire 🙂 Then as he gets used to working with high distractions, you can go back to ‘regular’ treats.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>She does fine wrapping to the left for the tunnel entry, but got stuck on all the right wraps to the tunnel. Something definitely is bothering her with those right turns into tunnel.>
I agree! So the question is… what it is? She does like to take us on treasure hunts LOL!!!
Left wraps: all good!
She did turn to the right before stopping in flow – and also turned to the right really well when you started on that wing.She did not take the tunnel on about 70% of the cues – ran past it or froze, in both directions. That is interesting.
Is it because the wings were not exactly presenting a straight line to it and she is very literal? Or is it something else? I lean towards it being something else because while yes, some of the lines were not exactly straight to it, she did seem to choose to go past it on some reps.Was she expecting a ball throw? We can rule that in or out by taking the short tunnel out of the starfish, shortening it even more and doing a couple of offered reps with amazing food, and a couple of amazing reps with the ball.
And to ask her if the tunnel is what she is avoiding in the starfish game: replace it with a wing jump and a jump bump on a straight line from the wing wraps. And let’s see if she takes it or if we get the same behavior.
>I got a recommendation for a soft tissue specialist that’s local so I’m following up with them before Dr. Canapp.>
This is great because it will be useful info for you, either to see if there is something up, or to get a baseline.
And before the appointment, I can help you gather video to show them – the vets and soft tissue folks generally like it when we bring video to see how the dog is moving!
>Given her limitations I didn’t even attempt the advanced sequences with her, but Jack and I had fun running them.>
Yay for Jack! I think your handling here was clear and smooth – she did get those turn away wraps!!! So I don’t need to bug you about handling and we can figure out why her rate of tunnel behavior was low.
Nice work keeping it positive and fun here even though she threw a curve ball!
Tracy
Hi!
>. Here’s an example where a stronger opposite arm would have been better! I think I kinda left him hanging:>
That is a great photo!! Ideally yes, he would already be seeing exit line connection over the bar but maybe you showed it on the next step? When all they can see is our back, they either center themselves to our back (like a water skier behind a boat) or they drift wide to find our eyes 🙂
Compare to the exit line arm you briefly showed him at :56 on the video – that was super nice and all he needed to have a great line there.One general thought on these smaller sequences: try not to let him see or hear decel when he is in the tunnel. That was causing to collect and exit turned. You can lead out less so you have more time to run run run, or you can run more into the curve of the tunnel so you are moving fast the whole time. Or both!
The session went really well! It was good to see what worked the best on the brake arms.
For example, on jump 1 at :37 & :55 – your brake arm on 1 was overriden by forward motion so he was a little wide. You can send with it, without moving to the jump. At 1:13, you added decel to the brake arm which really helped set up a great turn.
On the wrap jump after the tunnel: the rep at :43 was pretty perfect! Decel, connection, brake arm: all well-timed and just the right amount.
You were a little too extra at 1:01 🤣 – you did decel/arm/rotation all basically at the same time so he stopped, then you were facing the bar too much so he ended up doing a rear cross at 1:06. You were much smoother into it at 1:18 and he got it nicely.
> But do you think he should still have committed to that jump even so? We do continually struggle with this scenario where my timing must be so perfect on this set up or he’ll pull off the jump –>
I think the feedback of the refusal is useful in handling! But you can also teach him to save you by deliberately showing him you hitting the brakes really hard/rotating too soon, and then shifting your connection to the landing spot – and throwing the reward to the landing side. That can help build up commitment even when the cue is not very clear 🙂 Usually young dogs do not save it 🙂 but they do when they are very experienced.
The circle wraps on the backside are also going well – he is seeing the info before getting to the backside and setting up nice tight turns (like at 1:23). Super!
And nice job withthe backside exit line conenctions! Super tight turns! You can add it as a blind cross exit as well to get the tight turn on both sides of you.
>I think I was still getting in his way a bit on the way to the wing of the backside, but also do you think swinging a little bit out ensures he can clear the bar? Or should I strive for tighter?>
Yes, you were over-helping 🙂 He doesn’t have a jumping issue so I don’t think you need to worry about him clearing the bar. You can work on getting him to commit to the backside while you run a parallel line that takes you more towards the center of the bar (and less towards the entry wing). That will give him timely info and let him have plenty of time to set up his jumping, as you get further ahead. If you are too close to the entry wing – yes he goes wide based on the motion, but also it puts you in the way of the landing spot so it actually makes the jumping a bit harder because he has to avoid you 🙂
Nice work! here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>Yes to names of folks who specialize in gut biome. Calm Care might have made a bit of an improvement but not much. The ferapet calming powder I tried next was about the same. Something is clearly off there.>
I am sourcing info for you – stay tuned!
>I need to remember to balance the tossing treats with letting her check in. Right now it’s more heavily weighted to pattern games/tossing treats because I don’t want her to rehearse tipping over into charging at something moving.>
The auto check ins are also a pattern! You can start with a tossed treat then reward from your hand after that.
>Yup – and I’ve done that but I’m also trying not to use that as a crutch. Because if she can’t walk into the ring, see something and be able to dismiss it and refocus to me, then I worry about the hypervigilence spilling over into when she is runnning a sequence. It hasn’t yet, but I don’t feel like I want to push it much.>
I don’t think it is a crutch – I think it reduces the cognitive load and so she has more available when she needs it. Cognitive load is like my bank account – there is not a lot available so I don’t want to use it too quickly 🙂 She might be expended a lot of the cognitive energy just by walking in. So carry her in if you want to save some of that.
>Super bowls
We’ve done that at home and at Fusion. I tend to do the variation of the mini snuffle mat (dusting mop things) on either side of me by the ring or in the aisleway because it takes up less space and is easy for me to drop the 2 mitts down. She can do that within 5ft of the ring barrier while Kristen & Reacher are running.>Perfect! Bring it to classes and trials!
>Recalls past another walking dog
I”ll ask Kristen to play the part of the other team with Kaladin. Reacher and Lift have complicated feelings towards each other (aka – I think each might like to take the other out if the circumstances were just right).>Yes – these games are only played with an adult, solid helper dog. Never with another teenager LOL
>I can also probably do this with another dog(s) in her Thursday class. (Elizabeth and Rocky are in there for instance) And I can also have her do this past walking people (without dogs).>
If Rocky will be a bit bored by it all… PERFECT!!! And yes, doing it with people is great too!
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Fantastic question! It will depend on your venue of competition. A lot of organizations use course design that has the ‘get out’ jump and also a jump straight ahead. So saying ‘jump’ can mean either. If that is not a discrimination your dog will see, then totally yes – you can use jump 🙂 Let me know what you think!
Tracy
