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Hi!
Overall she is doing well with this skill and you were able to get pretty far up the line! Yay!>We’ve practiced this before: her cue is “Mark”.>
Question: does ‘mark’ mean ‘look at this jump now’ or does it mean ‘I will ask you to look at this jump when I get to my position’. You were saying it pretty early (before moving to your position) and then I couldn’t hear it when you arrived in position. So, clarifying what it means specifically can help too!
>She struggles with any delay on the release and self-releases.>
I see what you mean, she was kind enough to show us a bit of that here 🙂 Clarifying the mark cue will help, but also a few more ideas to play with for ya! We really want you to be able to trust the stay completely so try these ideas and let me know how it goes:
– There is a lot of pressure at the start line in general so for now, with this skill, take the pressure of the other dog away (sorry, River, nothing personal LOL!) so you can have her on more of a slice to help get the front of the jump (she ran around it on rep 1) and also so she can focus forward and hold the stay. You can add back pressure when things are a little more solid.
– Separate the forward focus cue from the release by more – I think she is anticipating a certain rhythm of you delivering the release in relation to her looking forward. It is happening pretty quickly after she looks forward, so she is probably anticipating the release when she self-releases. So try to add some quietly praise (‘goooood girllll, very nice’ or something similar) before the release – mix it up so she doesn’t anticipate you saying the same praise each time 🙂
– in that same mode, separate any physical movement from the release cues after the looks at the jump. On some of the reps here, you released and moved at the same time pretty much, or released then immediately moved, so it is possible she is reading some of the movement (of you getting into position) as the release.
So, lead out, cue the forward focus, let her look, praise, then be perfectly still and release her (moving after she moves).
This can be practiced inside with a toy on the ground to lay the groundwork, then added to the jump.
And of course, you can throw a reward to her for holding the stay, using a ‘here comes the toy marker!’.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
Looking at Kaladin’s video:
He did well with this overall but yes, he seemed a little sticky especially as you moved back. You did get him looking ahead and releasing with the wrap verbal, and he might have needed a bit of a step to support the release with the wrap verbal: say it a couple of times then take one step forward (which can eventually become a lean, which can eventually need nothing at all).The break release happened when he looked to be distracted by something (bird?) rather than looking at the jump LOL so I think that was an anomaly.
One suggestion to pump up this skill with him is to try a lower hand, pointed more directly to the bar. He looks up high at you already and the higher hand might draw his gaze upwards as well. You can also mix in having the reward sometimes placed out past the jump and sometimes thrown there, mixed in with sometimes wrapping to the tunnel.
On Lift’s video:
> I’ll have to try the placed reward on landing side in a future session when I don’t line her up facing the toy on a line that bypasses the jump.>
She is a spicy nugget at the start of the session, I like it! Like Kaladin, the first rep was the hardest then she remembered and did really well for the rest of it. Placing the toy is great as long as it is actually on the landing side and not past the jump LOL!! That was a slight cheat when she went to the toy and not the jump LOL
For both dogs, to get them looking forward even more, you can work the lateral position with a placed reward for the first couple of reps, then go to a thrown reward, then randomize it to solidify the skill.
Keep me posted on how Lift does with the grids – bring the video to the massage therapist, she might have seen the behavior before and have ideas!
Nice work here!
TracyYes, that’s a great observation that setting up a bunch of obstacles behind them would increase the challenge!
You can use a platform or station to help In Synch stay in one spot, for now.Let me know how they do!
TracyHi!
>Teeter- I wondered if it would be more clear for her if both obstacles were the same. >
I had found that the dogs do well with different behaviors on each. One of my dogs has a running a-frame, a 2o2o on the DW, and a 4-on on the teeter LOL!
>I wanted had her at a full height teeter but she was stopping early (high yellow) or coming to the bottom and breaking before release so I worked on not self releasing but she is not coming to the end of the board. I would love to hear your thoughts.>>
This generally happens when criteria is unclear – so adding in a specific behavior will help. I have used foot targets at the end of the board for my small dogs (nothing fancy – just a strip of duct tape 😁). And for the lighter smaller dogs, I teach them to scratch at the target on the end of the board – that becomes a very clear (and fun!) criteria which drives the dogs to the end of the board.
On the video: this forward focus went well!! You can give her more time to process the forward focus cue by arriving in position, indicating the forward focus, then letting her acknowledge the jump (even if it is just a glance :)) More processing time will help her with the bar (she had a question about the bar on the rep 1)
>Lateral was hard. I made it easier by giving her a preplaced target.>
Yes, that was a little harder for sure! You can watch her a bit more as you lead out, so if she changes position you can re-sit her sooner. She stood up at :38 but you didn’t see it til :41, which is ages later in dog years LOL! On the next rep, you were far more connected and she held the stay beautifully 🙂
On that rep, though, you didn’t cue the forward focus before the release so she came to you and didn’t take the jump – so remember to get into position and cue the forward focus, letting her indicate she has it before you release her. Then release when she glances at the jump – and you can continue to solidify the behavior by sometimes throwing the reward to the landing side of the jump.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi! This went great!!!! What a good boy – clearly you’ve built a lot of understanding of this. I thought you were going to lead out into the street LOL!!!
He definitely acknowledged the jump even though it looks like he was not staring at it. Since this went so well, if you want an additional challenge: Put a second jump out there, on the other side of the tunnel. And you can lead out like you did on reps 3 and 4 – and sometimes release with the wrap until the tunnel. And on other reps, you can release with the soft turn cue to cue the jump! That is a scenario I’ve seen lately so it would be fun to see how far away he can process those cues!
Great job here 🙂
Tracy
Hi! Welcome back, it is great to see you here! I have been following your adventures on Facebook and it looks like Synergy has had a lot of big successes!! Yay!
The forward focus work looks terrific! You were really very far away and she did super well.
Your ‘look’ cue (I think that is what you are saying) is going great and she is responding beautifully to the hand cue too.
One suggestion: You can release with the wrap verbal rather than break verbal then wrap. That will give her more specific info and give it sooner too!
She only had one blooper on the forward focus, when you were really far away. When you are MILES away (like at the end of the tunnel :)) you can step to the jump when you release her to support the line from the huge distance. But she really did well overall!!
On the parallel lines/layering session: this was another strong session, and she gave good feedback on the cues needed for the layering!
First rep – you were set up too far from one and had no place to set the acceleration for 2-3, and you were looking a bit forward a 1:33 so she curled into the tunnel on the Go verbals.
You had more acceleration on the next rep and you used “out jump” and it went great! The ‘out jump’ cues worked really well on the whole session.
You had gorgeous blind timing at 2:15 followed by nice ‘brake’ arms to get a lovely turn at 6!!! Nice!!!
I also really liked the blind at 2:32 – great connection on the exit! You stepped back to the jump more than needed there so she went to the other side of the jump, good girl! You had another lovely blind there on the next rep and didn’t push back into the line, so she got the correct side of the jump at 2:55.
It was also super easy to get to the backside there at 3:12 – her layering was very strong and you had time to make a phone call while you were waiting for her to catch up 🤣😂😁
As you were putting it all together at 3:23 – she kept you honest 🙂 You didn’t move much from 1-2 and you were very quiet and turning as she was approaching 2 at 3:24. You did say ‘get out’ after she landed but it was oo late, she was already reading the cue to the tunnel because you were already turned and moving along the tunnel. Good girl!
The last rep had more motion and earlier cues, so she got the opening line very nicely!!
Fantastic timing of the blind and brake arms on the 4-5-6 line! And great job sending her back out on the layering line to get a terrific blind at the end. Super!!!
Great job here – you two are really working as a smooth team! I am excited to see you tackle the bigger sequences/courses!
Tracy
Hi!
Welcome back to CAMP!!! I think your goals are good ones for both dogs!
Looking at the jumping video:
>I noticed she was drifting way to the right as she exited the bounces and went to the stride part.>
Yes! I totally saw all of that. The striding was fine as she was sorting out the distances/height, and the one rep at the beginning where she popped up high seemed to be the only one.
But yes – she was drifting to her right on all of the reps here.
>I have not seen it on set points or in general coursework. >
Agreed! Seems like a new behavior (and I don’t remember it on this same grid a couple of months ago).
>Wondering if it could be vision related?>
Without diagnostics it is hard to know, but it doesn’t seem like what we typically see when there are vision issues.
>Other potential factor is that her regular monthly massage was last Wed and she did have more tight spots on both sides of her lats and behind her shoulders (perhaps from weave sessions even though they’ve been short and max 2x/week?). >
This is more of what I have seen when dogs are drifting to one side of a line – compensating for soreness somewhere. When we vet those dogs, we have found a range of reasons, like rotate pelvis or sore hamstrings/psoas or sore shoulders. So it is best to bring the video to the chiro person/rehab vet or anyone who would be willing to take a look 🙂 I doubt it is from the weave training, but I guess ya never know!
>Massage therapist worked those out and then she lazed around with Dean & Demi while I was at the Cup so this morning was her first grid (or any training) since last week’s massage.>
Even though she had a good massage, it might not be fully worked out: when my CB had an ouch (from an accidental collision with Larry), it took multiple trigger point sessions and chiro sessions to work it out. So if Lift has something going on, it might take a couple of sessions. And since you are looking for sore spots, has she had any tick tests lately? Tick stuff can manifest as soreness or being “off” in gait.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
So they could do it with the jump and tunnel alone… but it was harder if there was more of a course behind you? Clever to set it up!!! And yes, keep rewarding the waits by throwing the reward to the dogs, to help convince them that waiting is good 🙂
Tracy
Oops, no, that was something that should have been deleted but the site held onto it. It is gone now 🙂
I’m glad you are here, and I bet some of this (like the forward focus stuff) can be done seated!
Tracy
Hi! It was great seeing you last weekend, and Reacher was great!! He’s ready for the harder CAMP skills, which we will balance with the big fast lines.
He really seemed happy with the layering stuff, so I’m looking forward to adding more of that because it will make it even easier for him to chase you on course!!Have fun!
TracyHi!
Oddly, i couldn’t get this to play any sound! But it looked good and
went really well!! She has a very obvious forward focus behavior, which makes it MUCH easier to see when she is locked on (thanks, Lu, we love the obvious indication!)Her only question was when you were lateral and at the tunnel entry… she looked at the jump but then went to the tunnel. I like that you gave her a reward for a good effort. She got it right on the next rep and on the other reps after it, so no need to make an adjustment. When you try it again and you are near the tunnel, you can add in taking a step forward when you release to help her on the first rep.
About the stay – yes, you are probably spot on that she was extra excited to be doing something, so she was anticipating the release. You can mix in a ton of rewards for the stay early in a session, by throwing the reward to her for her to run around with. That will hit the double whammy of rewarding the stay AND burning off extra yee-haws 😀
Great job!
TracyHello and welcome!!! Your list of stuff to work on sounds really good, and of course Emmie can do any of the big courses or super crazy sequences 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHello and welcome back!!!
This is a great question about the verbal…
>>Seems like teaching a verbal look has become quite popular. >>
Yes, very popular. Verbals are all the rage 🙂
>I’m really interested in why you aren’t doing it here. I started one with Sly but it turned into more effort than I was ready to give it.>
That’s part of why I never put a verbal on it… more effort than needed for the skill, and so far the skill has not evolved to the degree where the dogs can’t see the physical cue.
Another reason is that while my dogs all are very good with holding stays, they are right on the edge of go go go… so I don’t want to add a verbal that might potential cause confusion about what the release is. If things evolve where I become invisible to the dog (which i don’t see happening at any point)? OK, I’ll add a verbal.
> Although more than one person tells me I really need to teach the verbal.
A trend lately is to add verbals for EVERYTHING. ALL THE THINGS! This includes different verbals for specific tunnel exits (a whole new set of directionals that are different from other directionals), different verbals for backside-slice-to-the-left versus backside-slice-to-the-right, and on and on. I’ve been watching the trend carefully… we really don’t need to do it! It creates extra work and redundancy, and confusion (especially when the humans screw it up 😀 ) I mean, you are welcome to add all those verbals, but you don’t need to add them 😀
We will keep watching the evolution, of course, and if things change where the verbals are actually needed, we can add them pretty easily.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
