Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
>The first day (beginning of the video), I was so messy in my handling!! I’m blaming my shorts, lol. They were new and apparently are terrible for running in since they don’t stay where they are supposed to. Kind of odd since they are meant for running. Anyways, those shorts went in the donate pile and we tried again the next day.>
Good to find out about the shorts at home and not at a trial! They are probably meant for running in a straight line, not zigzagging across an agility ring with all of the rotations and direction changes.
Looking at the first run, I was going to say that the 3-4 line at :08 needs your motion to converge at 4more, and to give a turn cue from 5-6 to get a good turn to the tunnel.
You did all this at the start of the green shirt runs:) and also at the start of the red run shirts. Super!
My only other suggestion for the opening is to line her up on. More severe angle to get the straightest line 1-2. She was turning to get to 2, so there might be away to take out that extra stride.
She had some bar trouble on 10 – you can try that with a blind cross, because it is possible that the FC was not finishing in time for her to see the line sooner enough.
>The hardest part consistently was the threadle wrap at #13. I worked on the skill with her as a warm-up before two of the sessions, and she did relatively well with it, but once I added other obstacles in front of it, she would either take the front side or (more often) do a circle around the jump. I don’t think I was deceling enough on some of the reps, but I was struggling to get the blind in as it was, lol. >
Yes to all of this!
I like that you wanted to do a BC to a TW on 13, it is good to look for that as a possibility – in this case it is just too hard to get to the BC in time (needs to be finished before she exits the tunnel so you can decel) to set the line there.
When figuring out if you want to use a TW, look for what happens next on course and ho important it is to get way ahead. In this case, it was not that important to get way ahead, so there is not a significant enough benefit to the TW to make the risk of being late on the blind worth it. The push wrap is easier to get to and works great on this line.
You might be able to get there sooner for the TW if you handled from the takeoff side of 10 (standing in threadle position) and sent to 11-12.
You were getting it at 3;06 and later on (she was wide and had questions though) but there is also an element of her having learned it happening, so the first couple of reps are more insightful.
>I think she also just didn’t know what to do with her body because she definitely looked at the jump.>
That was just her processing late info to sort it out. When the TW was in flow, the decel into didn’t happen early enough for her to sort out the decel for herself.
>There were a couple of other spots where I broke connection before she was committed to the next obstacle. Whoops! >
Yes – for example on 14 at 1:12 and 2:40 and 4:08 and 4:19, you were pulling her off the line by turning to the weaves too quickly. Remember to keep moving to the jump until you see her approaching the jump, then you can move to the weaves.
You had good plans for the ending line 19-20:
BC before 19 is a good choice and the BC on landing side of it can work too – you need to get there sooner for both. The answer is not run faster, because you were really hustling which is great! But you can get there sooner by sending to the tunnel after the weaves and layering the 10 jump to cut across the field, rather than running the line with her. You would stick closer to the weaves, then as she exits cue the tunnel straight ahead and when she is locked onto it: layer the jump and start heading for the exit of the 18 tunnel.>Overall, I was thrilled with how well she did on the skills in this course!>
Totally agree! The only hard parts for her were just handling timing questions – all the skills to execute were in place! Yay!
Nox ran this brilliantly!!! She was driving her lines beautifully! And she did not get big mad when you were a little late on the blind at the end. She just kept going on the line – super! You did the push wrap with her on 13 and it worked perfectly!!!
Also worth mentioning: you really had zero pointy moments! Great connection throughout and your arm followed them when it came up, rather than pointed ahead of them. Click/treat to you!!!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>First of all, I was cracking up reading your notes! Most people don’t have the skill to make someone laugh when you’re telling them all the things they’ve done wrong (repeatedly), but you have totally mastered that, lol. >
Ha! I know you have a great sense of humor, and also it is hard to convey the smile behind the words when all the info is in writing.
>Two of my non-agility friends and my husband all gave me funny looks when I explained that the reason I was laughing was that I was reading about how I messed up my runs with Nox. 🤣>
I am sure they think dog sport people are TOTALLY NORMAL. HA!
>I KNOW I’m not supposed to point at things, and I tell students in my class not to point ALL the time, lol. I just can’t feel it and don’t always recognize it as the problem in my videos when *I’m* the one doing it. >
We humans are very pointy monkeys in general!
>It’s hard not having an in-person instructor for moments like these, but I will try to specifically look at my videos for “Pointy Situations” when she yells at me, and hopefully I can catch myself doing it more in the moment.>
I find that there are consistent things that happen when I am being pointy: running past jumps/refusals on sends are the #1. Then knocked bars or off course on the wrong line. If that happens, I start to self-diagnose by trying it again without my arm, and with more connection. If it happens again – I watch the video.
>I have run previous dogs a long time ago without using arms as a handling challenge, but I don’t think I’ve ever tried it with Nox now that you mention it. I will try it out! Should I use my arms to run or do my best penguin impression? 🐧>
Try it both ways! On big lines, you will want to really run run run so don’t be a penguin, but penguin arms are good for tighter lines.
T
Hi!
We got really good information on these runs!The places where you had a lot of flow on jump-tunnel lines looked great!! That includes the gamblers opening and both jumpers classes, as well as the sections in regular which had a lot of flow. The bars down in jumpers were the same thing: late turn cues on a left turn.
He kept working even when things were hard, which is good too!
And he is getting more comfy in the trial environment – this is also really good!
The other info he said was that he is not ready for contacts or weaves in th trial environment – he was avoiding the DW and A-frame in flow (he took the a-frame on the way back to you in regular because it was right in front of him). He did get one weave entry. And he was on the teeter but the rear cross surprised him so he bailed off.
>So do we keep trialing? I struggle with whether I’m asking for too much by trying to run in a trial setting. >
I think you keep trialing on the stuff that he is telling us is fun and flowing, like the jump tunnel sequences in ASCA jumpers (also speedstakes in UKI, and Jumpers in USDAA). But don’t keep trialing for real on the contacts or weaves for now.
The contacts and weaves should be gradually introduced one at a time, in an FEO or NFC way, with a reward in the ring. So the real question is: what can you bring in as a reward? I know he loves food – so some UKI trials allow some food boxes. But the other venues do not, so he will need a toy or ball or something (USDAA and UKI are fine if you throw a ball)
I don’t think it is a matter of which trial to choose – I think the top priority is finding something to bring in for FEO, to help transfer the skills to the trial environment. What does he love to play with that doesn’t involve food?
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
For both dogs, I think the switches looked great and so did the balance reps. They seem to be reading the 2 hand swoosh away quite nicely 🙂
For Lift: she read the switch away really well!
On the regular rear cross to the jump: there is a lot of acceleration needed after it, so you can say “Go” as you change sides, and keep your arms down so she sees connection and acceleration, and doesn’t see any shoulder turn to the tunnel (:42)Looking at the switch on the jump after the tunnel – you might want to go closer to the jump to do it so there is more acceleration to set the line into the layering after it (otherwise you get caught at the tunnel). And keeping your arm down will show clearer shoulder position facing the line.
Looking at the regular RC there, back to the tunnel – you accidentally pushed her off the line and showed backside info at 1:42. Your feet were going to the right-wrap wing for a couple of steps then you turned them to the backside on the other side as she was passing you. To smooth it out, you can run directly to the center of the bar until she is approaching takeoff, more like what you did on the last rep. That went well!
Kaladin:
>He got a bit confused about the proximity of the table when I asked for the wing wrap.>
That as pretty fun the he liked the table LOL!
He also read the switch aways really well!
He had the same RC question as Lift – more acceleration needed and les arm to send ahead 🙂
On the Switch on jump after tunnel – your verbal said jump but motion, position said tunnel and high arm blocked connection (:46). Going closer to the jump to set the line after it will help him too. And keep those arms down – I don’t think either dog is reading them as a distance cue on the first rep. In fact, it might be drawing their attention to you rather than showing the line. They get the line on the next reps, but that is after they have seen the line you wanted. That first rep gives us the best info.
Looking at the beyond the dog walk setup:
Lift did well with the Go versus right! There was a big difference in the verbal energy when you did them in the same sequence and that really helped!!!>Don’t think I got the “right” cue out early enough for the first balance rep but she nailed it on the 2nd try.>
Yes – she seemed unconvinced that it was a go but wasn’t sure if it was a right. The others were perfect!!
>Kaladin Jump is still in closer than for Lift but he’s looking more confident>
Yes, he is totally getting convinced that it is cool to go that far away without you 🙂 Good boy!!! Especially on the last sequence, when he was working basically on verbals and didn’t need much help from physical cues. Yay!
You can probably add maybe the a-frame in over the tunnel here for both of them – it will be distracting enough in terms of blocking your path, and won’t take up as much room as the dog walk 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
She’s looking great! It is like she never had any time off 🙂Connection was super strong throughout! Your timing is good – you were spot on with the right cues on rep 1. A little later on the next 2 reps, but the last run was perfect timing and connection!
One thing to define is exactly how tight you want her left & right to be.
I use my left/right to be a 90 degree angle from the jump – which for Grace, would pull her off the next jump in this setup. That can be useful when we do more complicated courses.
Because she is really small, you might want her taking the middle jump in more extension (because she still won’t be wide :)). On the first run, you hd perfect timing of the left verbal and a little decel… she collected really well but we might not need that much collection. So maybe you can stay accelerated and keep moving, so she stays in extension.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
You had your serp arm back on the releases here on the first 2 reps – terrific!! To help him pick up the line to the next jump – keep the serp arm back and keep the connection, rather than use the arm to point at the next jump. The serp arm position cues the next jump as you keep moving. If you try to point to the next jump, you might send him right past it if your position is not perfect.
On the rep at :27 where the serp jump was the 2nd jump, you had your closed shoulder pulling him in – this is where you can open up the serp arm back to him so he sees the full serp cue.
Adding the angled jumps after the tunnel – it is an easy line for him, and you had your serp arm back too! Yay! So keep that arm back as you also cue the next jump – it will feel weird at first 🙂 But it really helps show the line without a lot of extra work from you 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning! This went well!
There was one blooper about which end of the tunnel to go to: Remember to look at him when giving the cues, not tat the obstacle. Looking at (and pointing to) the tunnel at :17 caused him to think it was a blind cross so he cut behind you to the other side of the tunnel. You had connection at :25 and he knew exactly where to go
>Serpentines, a little struggle. It is hard for me to get to where I need to be in these short fast sequences. >
I think one tweak will make serps much easier:
To cue the serps from anywhere, remember to lock your serp arm back, extended away from you (like strike a pose from MaxPup 1 :)) And looking back at your hand (and his landing spot) really helps too.
You were trying to cue each jump with your arm going in and out, but the serp arm being back will cue the whole line 🙂
If you are ahead of him enough, the arm position is not as important but it becomes critical if you are not that far ahead. That is what happened at 1:19. You were not as far ahead, and the serp arm was not clear til after he was passing the jump. He got it on the last rep, but having the arm back sooner will make it easier for you both.
>Max rules, he is so smart and catches on quick. His work ethic is amazing.>
I totally agree – he is a superstar! And you are doing a great job teaching hi the game 🙂 Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
Most of the technical/close handling stuff looked really strong here (and the a-frame was blocking part of it), so we will focus on the layering sections.
On the layering work here, remember to build the skills with reward, not repetition. Especially if you fix something, reward her (like for working away on a line, or coming in to handling) otherwise there is not a lot of quick skill building happening. Instead, she is learning the course which is not as helpful for future courses where she needs to know the skills and you need to time the cues correctly 🙂
On the first course, starting at 4:
Running with her 4-5-6-7-9-10 works until you get to 11 (jump after the dog walk) because of all the forward motion of having to run up the DW with her. To get a better turn to 11, you need to decelerate and give the cues when she is still on the top ramp of the DW at the latest – but that puts you kind of trapped behind the DW and changes the cues for the tunnel-tunnel section.
That is what was causing the trouble there on the first run, and at 1:02: you got too far past the DW (closer to the first tunnel) and ended up putting a turn cue on the 12 tunnel with your motion. Plus the go verbals happened after she was already in the tunnel so she had to make a turn decision based on your motion she saw before entry (which is why she kept turning left, because that is what you were showing with the physical cues).
When you were on the correct side of the DW so motion was correct, she got it easily at 1:15.
By 1:40 and 2:11 she had learned it, so she did look at you (because motion said to turn left) but kept going.She didn’t really get rewarded in there – Those were handler errors, so reward when she got it especially if you stopped to fix or work a section! And we want toy rewards instead of obstacle rewards, because obstacle rewards will not create enough balance in handler focus and line focus. She is very line focused right now, so toy rewards will help a lot.
To get the sequence without the question tunnel-tunnel: layering is very helpful! Send her ahead after the teeter and layer the DW while she is weaving. That puts you further ahead so the exit of the DW will be tighter and you will be able to show the physical cues to the tunnels very easily.
She took the backside of the last jump at 2:18 – stronger/clearer cues needed to bring her in off the backside line like you did at 2:28: name call, eye contact threadle verbal and threadle arm moving back – all before takeoff of the 2nd to last jump. Look for those lines on courses so you can give the cues to keep her on the correct line. Maintain that each time – you got later with the cues when you were running the full courses later in the video (starting them when she landed) and without as much intensity. That will get an off court when she doesn’t already know the sequence 🙂
Looking at the weave entry layered on the 2nd course – she didn’t see the weaves the first time. She did get them after she knew they were there – that I a great spot to reward!! And then reward again when you put it back into the sequence.
When you were running the big courses – she was able to put the skills together because you had sorted out the handling and shown her layering lines, so you were both already really comfortable with the sequences. So the next goal is to be able to solidify the skills so you can cue them and she get get them the first time. You can do this by isolating certain sections like you did here, rewarding them out on the line for the layering elements. And if she comes off the line, watch the video before trying again to see what the physical cues are telling her, and when the verbal cues are coming. That way you can change the info for the next rep and cue the elements in the bigger sequence.
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>Should I leave props in for BOTH front side and backside jumping?>
Yes, for now, because we are going to add motion to it all.
>I have trouble with props in agility. I almost never used them in obedience because of how hard they are to eliminate
You are 1000% correct! I agree! My motto is: get the behavior with as few props as possible. Then systematically and quickly fade the props. We are almost ready to fade the props – just need better head position on the backside and more motion added.
>My experience with props in agility has been pretty negative. I have used them to try to create better backside jumping without much success – perhaps because of removing them too soon (?). >
Do you mean using a cone or barrel to shape the line? It might be that you have removed them too early, but general that prop fails because it does not actually get the behavior: the dogs are using it to round their lines so they have a better takeoff spot… but it doesn’t teach them how to organize the hind end (they still jump from the front). Plus, often those props are not correctly faded: they are simply removed, which doesn’t help things remain systematic.
>I am pretty afraid of baking the prop into the behavior. >
Totally agree! Which is why as soon as you have a session or two with motion that we like… we start the fading process.
So we are on the same page about using props sparingly and removing them quickly. If we are obsessively systematic about it, you will have the behavior and won’t need the props 🙂
Tracy
Hi! I think the pacing was good, but there was also good info about which choice were most effective and when she needed cues.
Looking at the walk through:
The FC on the landing side of 2 works but it seems like it would keep you at 2 for a long time (with stuff needing to happen on the other side of the DW) and it might show too much propulsion to 3 (so 3 would need a break arm).It was hard to see what the cues on the DW exit were on the walk thrugh, it was very subtle 🙂
The rest looked good, I liked your choice of a BC between the 2 tunnels. The BC to the threadle side of 13 might be hard to get to.
On the run –
Run 1:
1-2-3 ran well, but there was too much propulsion on 3 so she went past the DW.You decelerared on 3 on the 2nd run and it gave her a better line to the DW. Yay! You can stay in acceleration there and use a brake arm.
I did like the threadle opening on the 3rd run the best! It set up a nice turn on 3 and got you way ahead!
It looks like she turned left on 5 and you wanted a right turn. Think of it as serping off the DW exit, so you would be continuing towards the 6 teeter. You stepped in a little too deep which created the left turn there.
She didn’t even see the weaves the first time or 2nd time, is this is good to practice! Try using your weave verbal before she gets into the tunnel under the dog walk – the go verbal might not have enough info. She was going, but didn’t have an obstacle name to lock onto until it was too late.
You had really good countermotion on 11 (jump after weaves) – just be sure you look at landing at 1:23 to support his commitment.
The ending did not go to plan but you ran it well! That is why we always keep going: because you can still get a clear round!
The wrap to the left on 13 worked fine, or you can do a RC slice to get the planned right turn.The rest looked really good!
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
Novice jumpers started off great!
He went to the off course tunnel because I think for a moment that was the line you set – so yes, don’t call him back, just make something up if needed and keep going. Good job catching it on the video!>I wish I had planned a more flowing course but lesson learned for tomorrow.>
Yes – he was like “2 teeters in a row? Weird!” LOL! So getting a fast flowing opening will really help! When you started moving at the end, he was happy to pick up a line and go go go!
The regular run went well too! He really liked the ready-set-go tunnel opening! He is definitely letting us know that driving up onto the a-frame at speed is hard, so I think lowering it in class and doing fast lines onto it will really help.
He is not really seeing the weaves because the competition environment is hard. As he gets used to being in that environment, I think he will be able to find the weaves more easily.
Nice work here! How did today go?
Tracy
Good morning!
He is doing well with the jump work! Keep it really systemic for now, leaving the structure in place while just adding one new thing. The bowl was a hard brain-bender for him, but it was helping produce the head position and tightness of turn we want, so leave it on for both the wraps and slices for longer. He did really well moving past it, despite him looking longingly at it LOL!!!
On the backside wraps, keep adding motion like you were doing at the end of the jumping session – try not to stop til he sits (there might be a delayed response because a stationary behavior has to override handler motion), just keep slowly moving through it so he learns to organize his hind end even as you are still in motion That was hard for him on the wraps and slices! Don’t release til you are on the other side of the jump on the wraps (the same side of the bowl).
You were moving through the slices really well and he did well too! He was having a delayed response to the sit because sitting (and collecting) while you are in motion is quite challenging!
For now, add motion as the only variable change: leave the plank in, and leave the bowl in. Those will start to come out when he can organize for takeoff with you moving pretty quickly.
The weaves looked terrific! He was finding really challenging entries!!! Good boy!
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning! These courses do look like a lot of fun!!!! She is running well!
I didn’t see an extra backside on run 1 – just the bar on 1 and then the reconnection was late after a blind towards the end, so she didn’t see the side change.
On the other 2 runs, basically the same issue caused her to pick up the wrong line at :22-:23 on the first SS and :24-:26 on the 2nd one.
As she was taking off for the jump before the jump I question, you were setting a line to the parallel path backs (which is where the natural line went).
The decel was not really noticeable, because your shoulders and motion still faced the backside line long enough that she read it as a cue.
Also, both of these were on left turns, so that is something to keep track of in case the left turn side is the weaker side.Ideally, as she is taking off for the jump before the potential backside jump, you are already turned to face the correct side, calling her (definitely call her!), and probably at this point I’d be using a brake arm too (showing both arms) to help get the turn.
In the walk through, look for the potential backside lines because they will be there, especially in UKI 🙂 Making the cues earlier and adding the brake arm will definitely help.
Let me know how today goes!
Tracy
Holy wow this went great! She had a small question right at the beginning (probably because she didn’t see the wing and needed you to take a couple of extra steps).
But after that? Fantastic!!!!! She was SO FAST and knew exactly where to go. Perfect!
So definitely move on to the next set of games, and keep going with the ‘lots of connection, no hands’ approach to handling. She looks great!!!
Nice work 🙂
TracyHi!
Looking at the first video – this went really well! She seemed to have no questions about finding the jump on the Go cues, versus turning on the tunnel exit when asked. The only blooper was when you cued the left too soon and didn’t acutally cue the tunnel… so she didn’t take the tunnel. Everything else looked great!
She also did really well with the weaves: the soft side entry is a little harder (she did have one miss coming out of the tunnel but then on the next rep, it looks like you converged towards the tunnel entry which supported her line to the weave entry. That is definitely something to remember for now, as that soft sided entry gets solidified.
She did really well on the other side of the weaves too!
>didn’t realize that I moved the wing in the way – sorry!>
No worries, I could tell by your reaction if she got it or not LOL
On your next session – you can use 12 poles and also – don’t give her a warm up on the weaves: start right from the wing into the tunnel to the weaves, and see if she can find them immediately.
Course 1:
I think you said “LEGIT!” at the end of the run and I agree – that went great!!!The walk through looked really clear – I could easily tell your handling choices, nice connection, good verbals too! The only question I had was about the cue for 2 – it looked a little like you were facing forward too much and not facing the line as much. She seemed to agree on the lead out, when she did not immediately look at jump 1. You can angle a little more back to her so she is more confidently looking at jump 1.
Small details – with nationals coming up, decide on what you want your teeter release to be. She left before the release here. Since it is a week away, you can release as it hits the ground to be consistent rather than change it and risk flyoffs or creepy teeters.
Looks like she stayed in the weaves – hard to tell from the video but the layering went well!
And did she get the jump after the DW on the turn away? I think she did, but it was not that visible.
Your timing was strong here and she had really nice turns. So keep working the connection which is what leads to the good timing, which is what leads to the good turns!
Great job 🙂
Tracy
