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Good morning!
I hope you enjoyed your snow day 🙂 And I also hope it melts fast!!
> I would love to train Carmen from the start with a running/moving contact. Do you think that’s reasonable given her size and stride? Are there any methods you recommend for that?>
I think that a running a-frame is very reasonable! The running dog walk… that is harder to decide about. The plank is smaller than her width and she is massively fast, so a true running dog walk might be less comfy/safe than a running DW. Smaller breeds like Border Collies can ‘fit’ on the plank and even then, there are problems with the RDW.
As far as methods: because of how sighthounds are built and move, I think there needs to be more flexibility in terms of what you use as criteria. Almost every method uses the split-rear-feet criteria for running contacts but that doesn’t fit natural sighthound movement when running. I used front foot targeting for my lurcher and whippet, which made so much more sense to them 🙂 Also, there is a lot of repetition in most running contact training, which sighthounds really don’t enjoy doing.
There are a lot of online options out there, so I can help find someone who also has breeds that are not herding breeds 🙂 That way you can have a great progression built for her needs and not a general method that doesn’t fit her body. I will look around!
Tracy
Hi! This went well too!
>I’m sure the baby will get it when his human is a little more coordinated>
And you will have a much easier time when obstacles are involved, because you will have more time. It is harder on the flat because he is just running fast without having to jump or do a tunnel.
And if you feel like this game needs 6 arms, you are correct LOL!!
It was mostly perfect and he got rewarded for everything, which is ideal.
Only one suggestion: during the pivot, decelerate a lot more before he gets to you and stay decelerated as you turn. That will help you show connection on the side you want. The only real bloopers were you turning too fast, so connection broke and he wasn’t sure where to be. Decel will solve that and we actually use decel with these cues on course, so it helps with everything.
When you had the decel and connection at 3:30 – gorgeous! More of that will make it all easier.
And like i mentioned above, you are getting the toy back while keeping it all joyful… click/treat to you!!
Well done!
TracyHi!
This went great! He did really well with very few questions. Nice job with your timing of letting him get to the line before you did the FC and run!
His two questions were both involved with getting started, so two ideas for you:
– You can be more centered on the barrel so he sees it more directly for a smoother start (you were a little angled)
– You can use a treat to line him up since he is so good at going from cookies to toys!He seemed to be asking to do left turns – was it because he is more of a lefty? Or because he has value on the little bump and wanted to go over it? Either way, start the next session with him on your right (turning left) so we see if he indeed has a preference.
>I’m hoping with consistency and I’m separately working on retrieve to hand … I might be able to trust him with a toy at club (one day).>
The toy play and retrieve is coming along! You are doing a good job of balancing getting the toy back AND keeping his joy during the play. The joy is the most important!!
Nice work!
Tracy
Good morning!
He totally liked turn and burn! He remembered the barrel even in a new place and did a great job!
Remember to use a line on the ground as a way for you to know when to do the FC and run. You were leaving at different times without it, so some reps were too early and he came off the barrel. At the beginning, you can have the line on his exit line for the first couple of reps then move it a couple of inches towards the entry point, so you leave a little sooner for the FC but not a lot sooner 🙂
He loved to chase the toy and leaving it to wrap the barrel was hard – I think that might have been because it was to the left. You can see towards the end (1:19 ish) he was actually trying to do it to his right! Good boy! So for the next session with the toy, start him on your left side so he turns to his right and we will see if it is easier to leave the toy 🙂
>He had some good hits and good drive to the prop. He faked me out a few times! I feel like it was still hard for me to leave before he turned around.>
The countermotion was great! He had a TON of good hits and you were moving away pretty quickly. NO worries about the fake outs – it was probably a combination of him knowing you were going the other way, and a little bit of fatigue because it was later in the session. But overall, he was fabulous driving away from you to get to it! This will be easy to transfer to barrel/wings/jumps as we keep building up the skill.
>We tried the parallel path game outside but I must not have pressed record. He did ok. I wasn’t very far from him.>
For taking it outside, I wonder if a lotus ball or something will be better than a thrown treat? It will be easier for him to see the reward out on the line that way. You will get fewer reps because you’ll have to get the lotus ball, reload, etc – but the reps might be higher in quality so you can add more distance more easily. And you can also throw a toy or ball!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Here’s backing up with me squatting- I couldn’t find a chair or stool in the garage that would work.>
The squatting worked well! And he is beginning to get the idea – super! The only suggestion to get more steps backwards is to keep your hands down by your knees to keep his head low. If he can keep his head low, in a natural/straight position, it will be easier to move backwards. Low hands will provide that focal point. When your hands were high, he was looking up at them which makes it harder to to keep moving backwards.
For the rear crosses: I think you need more room to be able to show him the side change sooner. He was hitting his prop really well and you were hustling to get to the new side – but he has quick feet so by the time he arrived at the prop, you were still very visible on the original side. That is why he didn’t turn the new direction right away. So if you have a long hallway you can give him another 10 feet or so to drive ahead, which gives you more time to get to the new side 🙂 And you can also play with the alternate version which gives you more time to be fully visible on the new side before he decides on the turn.
>We tried exciting novel- but he treated it like a prop then I got confused on how to do it.. so left that out>
Ha! Clever pup 🙂 He probably thought something new and prominent in the space was something to interact with. You can add something up on a table in the smaller space. Or in a wider space, you can put it off to the side more so it is less visible as something to try to offer behavior on.
Also, gold star to your other pups being such good supervisors in the xpen! Watchful but quiet! Yay!
Great job here!
Tracy
Yes, I agree about props – but every time I use one, I am also planning to NOT use it and fade it out 🙂 So if I don’t need it, I won’t use it 🙂 I have trained all of my dogs to stay without using props because I am too lazy to have to fade it out hahaha!!!
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
He did so great here!!! It was a challenging setup and he was super successful. Happy dance! His brain was totally aware of the distraction at the beginning but was able to tune it out in favor of playing the prop game. You chose a good game to play – lots of value for the target so he was better able to tune out the distractions.
He also did great as you increased the challenge. A bad cookie bounce at :52 (you threw it straight and it bounced to the side) brought him right toward the distraction cookies but he was still able to resist it and come back to the game. Good boy!
He actually got MORE excited about ignoring it when he saw you open the bag – maybe he thought you were going to use the cookies as the rewards (maybe you did use the same cookies?) but either way, he still did great. He did a little investigated but never actually grabbed for anything. I am proud of him!
Let him sleep on this learning for a couple of days, then you can do a novel-exciting session maybe with a toy on the ground off to the side.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Yes, I hear that you are having some terrible rain! I hope it lets up soon without causing damage. The indoor space worked really well here – having a carpeted floor allowed her to move really well without slipping.
Your pile of stuff for the shpile game was GREAT! Excellent combination of things that move, crinkle, bang, different textures, etc. Super! The wood platform was a little slippery so you can put a yoga mat over it.
She did really well here with the treats so the next step is to get her WILD 🙂 Proprioception in high arousal is the key to success in high arousal sports like agility, because her brain is learning to work clean mechanics and movement even when her mood is very excited! And the science says if we teach it in the state she will need to do it in (high arousal), it will be much easier for her to do it when she is in that state.
So start the game with wild tugging – then do 3 or 4 cookie rewards for climbing about on the pile – then back to tugging. No worries if the mechanics are not super clean at first, keep rewarding because she will sort them out as she gets more experienced in the higher arousal state.
Side note: this game is stolen from flyball training where the dogs are in very high arousal states, and we need them to hit 25-30 miles per hour at the start line then be able to decelerate into the box turn (tightest turn in dog sports). They start 45 feet or more from the start line so I think they are going pretty darned fast when they get to the start line 🙂 The results of teaching puppies this high arousal shpile game get that gorgeous proprioception in flyball and also in agility. The turns, contacts, weaves, etc have all been sooooo much easier to get in trials with the dogs that are shpile trained LOL!
The wing wrap session went awesome! I know that being indoors is not ideal for this but working in the smaller space allowed you to focus on your connection: PERFECT!!!! And Rou had no questions. Lovely! If you do another indoor session, you can add in your wrap verbals. And when you take it outside, start adding more distance between the wings.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Was the bunny toy making the farting grunting noises? That was pretty funny LOL! I think sitting on the floor and playing here was lovely 🙂 You got lots of nice, relaxed interaction with the toy and between the toy of you. The toy noise was cracking me up 🙂
She definitely likes it when you throw the toy! This is where you get the best interactions and she comes in to you for petting and hugs (probably because there are no rules, no contingencies, etc.). You can try this with any type of thrown toys, just hanging out in the kitchen: a wubba, a hollee roller, a small jolly ball, a tennis ball – small enclosed space like this so she doesn’t slam herself chasing them, and you don’t care if she brings them back or not. You can sit with her with a pile of them in your lap and just toss them around.
>Ok, she’s crazed when she does that and could knock over lamps etc. i will try not to police it so much. Its rain for days so oent up energy now.>
Living Room Zoomies! You can cheer her on for a few seconds and then you can toss a loaded snuffle mat on the floor while you just sit on the couch or hang out safely to avoid zoomies (stand in front of anything that might get broken) – she can go to the snuffle mat (or not!) but it is a good way to direct the zoomies. You can keep it pre-loaded in a plastic container or something so it is easy to whip out – break glass in case of emergency hahaha! And with terrible weather for a few days, you might have a puppy emergency where her energy needs re-directing.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
> I looked into the workshop with Dr. Canapp. All the slots for eval time with him have been filled. >
Darn it! But he now has a practice on the West Coast if you ever need him. I hope you never need him 🙂 I think he is super brilliant but it is always better if we never need to meet him haha!
She was such a good girl with the line up here and the stays are coming along very nicely!!
>Still jumpy with touching the collar although she has gotten pretty good at getting leashed up (kept this on the end of the video).
Right! She almost seemed surprised by the collar touch moments, so good job proceeding slowly there. “Jumpy” is a good word for it where she was still surprised even though she has had previous positive experiences with that. She was a good girl with the leash at the end too!
>You’ll see she is pretty smooth coming around my left side, but got a bit sticky with coming around my right. Soreness has been on her right side (hip socket area); wondering if that could be a reason for her “stickiness”. Would it be hard to bend for that direction?>
She is a good communicator for sure.
I see what you mean about her getting a little uncomfortable turning to the right as you mentioned but wow, she was happy to immediately turn to her left and line up the other way. Interesting! Good for you for trying that.
It is entirely possible the stickiness is because something is ouchy and she felt it on the first couple of reps, so you got an abstention after it in that direction… but a happy ‘yes’ the other direction.
You got lovely reps on the other side. Then when you tried to get her lining up to her right, she was trying to get back to your left leg. Soreness or not, that might be a more comfy side for her in general. And if it is a bit of that right hip soreness causing trouble, you can as the vet to check her patellas when she is on her side getting the radiographs. A standing exam might not be as complete because strong dogs can hide a naughty patella 🙂 when standing. If it was a really slippery patella, I am sure you would have felt it already but a mild one can cause the hip to over-compensate on same or other side, leading to some soreness there.
Side note: one of my small dogs had a patella issue as a youngster, and she has had a fabulous career in both agility (national finalist!) and flyball, still running amazingly well at 7.5 years old. I saw freezing behavior with her as some of the early symptoms and her issue was not found on a standing exam, missed by really top notch orthopedic vets but easily found when she was on her side.
She did well with the stays. And you can also add some instant ‘get it’ moments when she arrives in position then you immediately throw a cookie ahead so she doesn’t stop in position.
And you can teach her leg weaves as a trick! That is a fun addition to the sit work and collar work too.
At one point on the video you said “I lied, we will do one more”
That made me laugh so hard because I say that ALL the time and I know I shouldn’t but yet…….. one more hahahahaha.And great news about the toy play! It sounds like it was a fun game with 2 toys, not contingent on anything harder. Super fun way to spend a rainy day!!!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
She did really well with the tunnel game! Without a lot of room to get her in extension, she still was able to go pat the wing to the jump: great job with the rewards that supported her!!!
And yes, as you mentioned in the video, she is really fast 🙂 Fun times ahead!
Since this went so well, a couple of ideas for the next session.
– you can add a ‘jump’ verbal instead of only saying ‘go’ because a ‘jump’ verbal will help with the discriminations. Go could mean either obstacle when you are further away so a jump verbal is more specific. And I think Kyla mentioned you had an extra Go verbal when turning to the tunnel so she went a little wide, but that is fine at this stage because the extra verbals support the layering.– since she was able to get the turn to the tunnel after the jump, you can add in the additional challenge of staying out the line with you running parallel and heading to the next wing (the white wing closer to the tunnel).
The rear crosses went really well! Her left turns on the first past to the video looked consistently strong. You mention they were right turns so either the video reversed it or I need more coffee haha!
Her only questions on that first half of the session were actually on the Go lines. In 2 spots, she thought you wanted the rear cross. I think that was because you ran close to the tunnel exit before straightening up on the line, and she read that as the beginning of RC pressure at :23 and :41.
Compare that to when you headed straight up the line after committing her to the tunnel entry (heading directly to the line past the jump) and she was perfect, no questions at :12 & :51
On the other side:
>Could it be that she is unsure of going towards the wall?>
That could definitely be a part (along with a possible turn side preference) – she got more careful driving to the wall, especially after the toy hit it (look at how carefully she ‘plucked’ the toy away from the wall there LOL). Also, I think the RC lines at 1:11 and 1:28 were a little later than what you did on the other side – it looks like you took a couple of steps on the straight line after she exited the tunnel so she thought it was a straight line and not a RC at 1:11 and 1:28. It will be interesting to see what she thinks when you try it without the wall and get right on the line.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I do have a question about running NFC at the local UKI trials. You mentioned having someone throw or place a reward or target to help Tarot drive ahead in trials! It never occurred to me to have a second person in the ring as a helper. Is that allowed in NFC? If so that would be fantastic since there are a lot of UKI trials in the area!>
Yes – it is allowed in UKI. You can have a ‘helper’ come in and hold the dog on the start line, throw or place a reward, or even use a target. Food rewards are not allowed, and the target must not touch any of the obstacles. But a target on the ground is allowed and also toys can be thrown! UKI is great about that.
Tracy
Hi! The session went really well! The GO reps look pretty perfect 🙂
>Hes pretty good on his rights. I think he has a lot more questions on left. >
Yes – partially it is a side preference, and also it was a cue timing question! I made a slide show for you 🙂
Because of his size, stride length, and speed, his brain is (correctly) making a takeoff decision no later than one stride past the tunnel exit. That gives him time to set up the jumping mechanics.
On the first couple of left turn RCs: when he was making the takeoff decision, you were still showing straight line cues. The RC cues started after he made the takeoff decision, which is why he turned the ‘wrong’ way but immediately fixed it after landing – he could not make the change once the takeoff was underway.
Compare to the right turn RCs – you were getting directly on the RC info line basically as soon as he was out of the tunnel. He saw it, processed it, and turned the way you wanted. Lovely timing!
And on the last left turn RC, you got the cues in at about the same time as you did on the right turn RCs, and he got it! Yay! You were also using your arms/hands there, but I don’t think you needed that – it was the timing of the RC pressure to the center of the bar that got it done.
Here is the photo evidence LOL!
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1G5W1KOm2vKdWJ2MFKwDv9lqz3PFZNXNlG7QSjDgJ6iM/edit?usp=sharingSo to boil it down: the right turn RCs had timely info, and the left turn RCs started off with late info then you were timely on the last one 🙂 Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
I did not watch any of it – I know the source all too well to give it even the benefit of the doubt or any financial support 😉
>It was super interesting how some actual science was presented, but with interesting bias added in that if you’ve never actually examined the original science could be convincing>
That is a huge problem in seminars and lately in AI-generated posts on social media. So convincing! But also… not what the science and data are telling us. I find it all to be an ego-centered, human-focused approach to training dogs without any true study, understanding, or application of the science. The newest insights coming from research are also changing our view of reward prediction errors – just fascinating stuff! And it is all pretty accessible so I have limited patience for people who try to Teach The Science but aren’t actively studying, understanding, trying to apply what the research is giving us.
> appearing to bite his tongue when others were actually trying to use the techniques the lecturer (a different guy) was advocating for.>
Yeah…. that is a problem. He should have said something if he disagreed!
T
Good morning!
>I will try that with him. For the backing up to something do I want something flat or would a Cato board work?>
Cato board is probably a little too high for now. A folded towel might be just right!
>For the RC I am afraid the hallway is directly above this space so it would be the same length. Should I move the target more one direction>
Yes, you can move the target as far as possible in the direction that is easier to set it up. We will take it outside as soon as mother nature cooperates!!
Tracy
